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Aftermarket products are widely available, so I don't think is particularly important which is offered. If you don't want what the manufacturer is offering, go with an aftermarket one.
http://www.powertrax.com/locker.htm
driven at the same time regardless of the conditions. He said that with the Envoy, if the Autotrac is called on or if the 4Hi or 4Lo is engaged, you will have the left front and right rear wheels driven only, UNLESS you have a locking rear differential which would engage both rear wheels, giving you 3-wheel drive at best. Furthermore, he added, the SmartTrak is the same except that "there are no buttons".
Can anyone please clarify this issue? Is this guy correct? If so, I am very confused because what he said contradicts the info in the Bravada brochure that says: "But if conditions require it, all four wheels are driven to make the most out of available traction."
On the Envoy, the Transfer case, will send 100% to the rear axle, and 100% to either left or right rear wheel, until it senses that the front axle is spinning slower than the rear, then it will send power at a 50/50 split to the front axle, where 100% of it either goes to the front right or the front left. If you have a rear locker, you can lock both rear wheels in, which would send 50% power to the left and 50% to the right. The front 50% would still be sending 100% to the left or right, but not both at the same time.
Anyone feel free to correct me, I could be off base.
-mike
-mike
The only difference is that SmartTrac comes standard equipment with a locking rear differential for better side to side traction at low speeds for the rear wheels, and AutoTrac comes with low range gearing (4WD Low) whereas SmartTrac is essentially in 4WD Hi at all times.
Drew
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-juice
The Pathfinder LE/Infinity QX4 can be had with "Auto" All mode drive and an optional limited slip rear differential. Nissan says it is from the Skyline GT-R race car system. Without input this can put the truck into 50-50 Front to Rear, and LSD can divide the rear wheels. Am I correct in understanding that under poor road conditions at least one of three tires should have grip?
How would you rate this system compared to the others out there? In particular to winter road conditions?
The system works by detecting wheel slippage, and then automatically (when in "Auto" mode) transfering power to the front wheels until traction is restored. It then reverts back to RWD. The rear limited slip differential will help to prevent power from leaking out to one rear wheel on a looser surface, but like all limited slip differentials, only to a certain extent. The nice thing about the system is that you can lock the centre differential if needed; that is, in really really poor conditions.
For winter conditions, I would probably rate this system as good in comparison to other systems out there, but not excellent. The simple reason being that it is mostly reactive and requires the rear wheels to slip before the front wheels activate. Personally, I prefer permanent 4WD or AWD systems which allocate power prior to slippage. This way, when you are cornering, all four wheels are already powered and have traction and you don't need to lose traction to regain it.
That said though, the Nissan's system is similar to the Ford Explorer's Control Trac, but far more refined, advanced, and faster reacting. Power transfers are seemless, unlike the Ford's which can be felt by very noticable bucking and jolting. The computer can also send some power to the front axle to reduce front end bobbling when braking in the snow, for example.
If you have any questions, feel free to ask. I hope this helps :-)
Drew
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-mike
The three wheel theory comes from my perception from reading past posts. When the truck is put into 4WD, power is only really going to one front and one rear wheel. Add LSD to the rear and power is shared to some extent by both rear wheels. So in my understanding, either of the rear and only one of the front has the ability to grip when the "Auto" kicks in the 4WD.
I just bought a Pathy LE 2 weeks ago and by what you guys are saying, I'll leave it in 4WD when the snow comes.
Thanks for your quick responses!
-steve
When I bought the Denali, I was also looking at the Suburban 2500. U see i wanted the 6.0L engine.
From reading all these postings, it seems, from a "Better" standpoint I made a mistake and should have opted for the 2500 with autoride. I live in Illinois 7 months a year, 4 to 6 weeks of that time will be in the snow and sleet, then it's down South for the winter where the drive system one has is not too important.My last vehicle was a 99
tahoe 4x4.
My question is, Did I make a mistake in going for the Denali? ? ? ?
Thanks
Drew
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Do u like the Denali's AWD System?
-mike
Drew
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-mike
PS: is that the same split as the Safari? (I think it's a similar unit that is used)
Towed my 2500lb boat today on the newly re-build boat trailer. The Trooper did great, even with t paisan-sized adults in it plus all our gear, and about 700lbs of gear in the boat.
-mike
Thanks
Generally that's the idea. If there is some power going to the front axle, it's more pro-active than a reactive system such as in Fords and GM auto-trac vehicles in on-road, higher speed situations. With my TOD engaged on my Trooper which puts 15% power to the front as a std. with up to 50/50 split, I was able to drive up a 45% angle 1.5-2' deep snow covered dirt driveway about 200' long. I didn't need to engage 4wd lo, and I've off-roaded a # of times w/o having to use 4wd lo either.
-mike
Don't worry so much and enjoy the drive :-)
Drew
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-mike
I had read an earlier post, don't have the patience to try to find it again, which had some negative comments about the GM AWD... I just wanted to get some other opinions. This vehicle only gets about 4 or 5 weeks of potential snowy conditions before we migrate to south Florida for the winter. Hopefully, it won't start snowing there anytime soon..ha, ha
Is the 6.0 really considered that " Great"? I would have LOVED to have gotten it with the 8.1L, perhaps the drivetrain is not up to the torque produced by that engine...
larry
-mike
So the 4 low was the problem for some readers, I have had 3 vehicles with the 4 low option and Never had the need to use it, or even try it out. I am not concerned.
Yes, u r correct, Illinois had the second worst roads in the country, right behind our neighbor, Iowa. Chicago is the "pothole" capital of the world. The state should give drivers here an allowance for damage to their vehicles. I always have squeeks and rattles in the winter(on my Tahoe) and lo and behold, when I got to Florida, they all went away.
I fiqured the difference in horsepower on the Escalade was the intake manifold, an easy modification to garner a little more advertisable horsepower. Oh, the games they play with or on us?
larry
Mine's a manual tranny Forester with 225/60R16 tires, a tad wider than stock. The VC splits power 50/50 to begin with, but the suspension did a good job keeping all tires in contact and the system never seemed to have to interfere.
I posted some photos of my drive here.
Ironically the only one stuck was a new Chevy Crew Cab 4x4, but he'd forgotten to air down so the tires dug in. Once we adjusted the pressure, he drove right off.
-juice
PS The surf fishing was great! Too bad the shark attach in Avon kept us out of the water, though.
-mike
Two SUVs that come to mind immediately are the Toyota Sequoia and the MB M-class, both with low range. BMW X5 can be had with permanent AWD (so no low range) All three of these vehicles have stability control + traction control.
Good luck,
Drew
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-mike
Here's what scares me: recently, my brother, with his FW2WD Infinity just zoomed up the roard in the rain. Not a problem. Next to go up was my SIL in a new MB sedan with all the fancy smancy traction control (not AWD though, that I know of). The MB was having a heck of a time. You could hear the wheels slipping and sliding and not able to gain traction. They did get up the hill, but I'd imagine that after a few months of doing that daily, you'd become the tire salesman's best friend
My Pathy has never slipped or slid - the only time I have problems is on gravel, and as soon as I put it into 4WL, it's fine. There may still be a slip or two, but nothing like it is when I'm in 2WD.
To be honest, I really don't want to spend $40K plus for a Seq/MB/TLC (though I'd really LOVE the TLC..). Also, since I do a lot of highway driving (once I get off the mountian ), wouldn't the permanent 4WD kill me in mileage? I'm thinking that for what I want, a full sized 4WD on demand truck would offer me the best option at a lower price?
Ken
The big SUVs are heavy and wide, and weight + size work against you in climbing that steep gravel driveway. They can get very pricey and mileage will probably be in the teens.
Another thing is that many full-time 4WD setups are still reactive. They act like front wheel drive (cars) or rear wheel drive (trucks) and then send power to the other axle after you start slipping, at least in most cases.
There are full time setups that send power to both axles to begin with, so you are less likely to even begin slipping. You have lots of choices: Toyota RAV4 and Highlander, Subaru Forester, Legacy, and Outback, Volvo XC, even the Hyundai Santa Fe.
In up to 12" of snow, my Forester is fine, even though I have touring tires not meant for the white stuff, and two open differentials (S models have a limited slip diff for even more traction). That plus I average over 25mpg.
There are lots of options out there, have fun shopping. Ask the salesman if they're willing to let you take it home to try your hill. Or look at what friends are driving and see who has the least amount of trouble negotiating that hill.
IMO it would be a pain to stop at the bottom of that hill every day to manually engage 4WD.
-juice
Since permanent 4WD is running all of the time (and designed to do so), there should be no difference in fuel consumption. The four powered wheels are there to help you handling-wise should you have to take evasive actions.
Since ice is a big factor, stability control will really help you to keep the vehicle under control within the limits of your tires. You may find this video clip interesting:
http://www.theautochannel.com/media/netshow/misc/esp-consumer-video.asx
For more on stability control, have a look at this article:
http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/safety/articles/45992/article.html
You may also want to consider dedicated snow/ice tires for even better handling.
Drew
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http://www.imagine-xt.com/snt/VDC1s.mov
http://www.imagine-xt.com/snt/VDC2s.mov
http://www.imagine-xt.com/snt/VDC3s.mov
http://www.imagine-xt.com/snt/VDC4s.mov
I would even add the Passat 4Motion to my list, since ground clearance is not a big issue with the little snow you get.
Heck, I think the Ford Focus offers stability control as an option now. Doesn't the Jetta, also?
Still, I'd get something that was using all four wheels to climb up that slippery hill.
-juice
Drew
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I got to drive on some unimproved roads this Sat, mostly loose sand, and the Forester did great. The ground was really loose and I could feel it drifting around corners. Loads of fun. Never left me wanting for a low range nor did it lack traction at any point.
An interesting lesson was in vehicle width. The trail has low branches scraping the sides of the wider SUVs, even a bit on my Forester. The Impreza RS and Outback Sport in our group were actually better in this regard, because their tidy size allowed them to negotiate the narrow trails without suffering any whacks from errant tree brances.
-juice
Yes, 4WD Low is overrated in some cases, which is probably why Subaru doesn't see a need for it over here ;-)