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-mike
-mike
-juice
We are looking a mid-size SUV with a third row seat and looking to spend around 30,000-32,000. The salesman had her convinced that a 4x2 can do great in the snow but I have my doubts. Just like usual, only 1 in 5 dealers have any 4x4s(Chevy, GMC, and Ford)and they wouldnt budge on any price!
You can pick up a trooper 4wd for around $25K loaded to the gills (w/o leather) $29K (w/leather) and throw in for about $700 a 3rd row of seats from a company called littleoneseats or something along those lines see http://isuzu-suvs.com in the vendors section for a link.
It has a superior on-road awd sytem than the exploder, and a 10/120K warranty.
-mike
I test drove a Buick Rendezvous recently. Could use a better engine, and it feels like FWD, but the interior is nice. Not much room behind the 3rd seat, but that may be the norm.
I tried a Durango years ago, but the ride was a bit stiff and I couldn't even see the front of the truck in parking situations. Not my style, but you can get the new 4.7l V8 in there.
I have not tried the Explorer. Ford has the 0% if you qualify. V6/V8 options, they even have full time AWD available.
Suzuki has the XL7, but it's smaller and priced much lower. Just got a power bump, too. I've been inside but have not driven one.
The TrailBlazer XL is arriving soon, and that'll have a 3rd row with a nice 270hp inline six. Have not driven one yet.
Troopers are selling cheap nowadays. You could buy the 3rd seat and still come out $5 grand under budget.
I think the MDX is over your price target. So are well equipped 4X4 Tahoes and Expeditions.
I'd do a few test drives to see that you like. Don't forget you can get AWD minivans from GM and Chyrsler, too.
Good luck shopping.
-juice
-mike
Edmunds doesn't have the AWD model listed. Perhaps it only came on the old models.
-juice
Stephen
Do they at least offer tracton control with 2WD? If not, you could plan on getting snow tires instead.
-juice
-juice
-mike
-juice (who has been a passenger in that XT6)
Or chip the 1.8T and get snow tires! :-)
-juice
up a very steep hill, with a 90-degree double-steep driveway (should never have moved into this house) in deep snow (rural, sometimes the plow doesn't come so soon). I'm a little worried about the GM "Versatrak" on the Rendezvous/Aztek/Montana, and the Grand Caravan/T&C AWD systems. Why, because I owned an '88 Subaru GL10 wagon with AWD and it had problems on my hill with STUDDED snow tires. My husband's Tacoma with oversized tires works great, but too small for us.
PLUS:
1) high safety ratings (Trooper doesn't cut it; Caravan iffy; Montana -- arghhh!)
2) tow 3,500 (loaded tent trailer) (too bad Passat 4Motion can't tow anything -- love it!)
3) decent gas mileage (well, as good as I can get anyway given my other criteria -- hoping for at least 20 hwy)
4) seating for 5, one of whom has a 42 inch inseam and is primary driver (you guessed it -- tallman!) (he never fit in the Subaru)
5) good cargo space for a stuff-enhanced family with an 85-lb dog
6) 0% APR :-)
Any ideas??? I think we've looked at every AWD/4WD vehicle on the planet (online at least) and driven half of them to the point where I just can't get my brain out of the sand. I guess my main problem is not really undestanding, even after reading all of this technical stuff, which system is going to work best on my hill in the snow.
Thanks for any help.
The gas mileage is about 15-16 miles per gallon. I think they can tow like 5000lbs and there's a lot of aftermarket stuff for this vehicle that you can find on the web.
But its now discontinued and the only reasonable substitute would be the JGC.
You did a good job of describing my own driveway and I typically had to install chains on all four wheels to get in and out even in part-time 4Wd mode in the Jeep.
Good luck, and stay away from the RX300, the MDX, and the T&C, all predominantly FWD vehicles.
anyway, it is not equipped with the optional Locking Rear Differential and I'm wondering if I'm going to loose out on this feature come winter.
No off-roading, but is there a benefit to LD in snow or would it actually make things worse?
Locking rear locks the rear wheels but LSD, just limits slip. Locking Rear is what is offered as an option on the Trailblazer.
-mike
I have recently moved to hills of pennsylvania with snow,slush and treacherous conditions on winding roads, I am looking for car/suv in $30k range. Can some rank for me the awd/4wd among subarus, VW 4 motion in passat, audi quattro, toyota HL with vsc or other choices like nissan pathfinder or trailblazer cousins etc.
thanks
-mike
I have a 4WD with an open rear diff like you (no LSD or locking). The only times I wish I had LSD or a locker is off the pavement in deep snow.
Deep snow (especially the granular type) gives the most resistence to forward motion. This isn't a problem in itself for our vehicles. It is in combination with bumps and dips in the surface (like off pavement or trying to climb over a snow bank) that causes a tire to break loose. Then that tire is spinning and we are not moving. That's when the locker or LSD comes into play.
So if you are staying on pavement and not trying to get through really deep stuff, you should be OK.
Stephen <<<<<
Unfortunately Ford has dropped AWD in the Explorer. That is a bummer IMO. I have a 97 Explorer, AWD V-8 and love it.
I am interested in getting a mini-ute type vehicle at some point, but I am concerned that most manufacturers seem to be ignoring center diffs.
The Tribute/Escape, CRV, and Saturn Vue all seem to use some variation on the Rotary blade coupling system. I don't wan't to play slip-catch in the winter. (at least the trib/scape has a lock though).
My conclusion is that a real diff must be more expensive, since it seems to be a clearly superior for on-road AWD vehicles in dicy conditions.
I see that Toyota and Subaru, seem to be the only ones with real diffs. Liberty also, but only with auto-tranny I believe.
Living in the salt belt of eastern Canada the plastic Panelled VUE has a lot of apeal, but its reactive AWD system leaves a lot to be desired IMO.
Unfortunately most people will never even find out how there AWDs work, so there is unlikely to be a groundswell of demand for real AWD (4 full-time driven wheels).
I wish we could beat up on the marketing/engineering depts to get more real AWD systems on the road.
Peter
Most AWD that I see, exception is the X5 and ML, use the viscous clutch in some from or another which results in OWD.
I look at it this way. I have taken my Subaru on the beach, to orchards, and on sand and dirt trails to play around, yet average more than 25mpg. It's great in the snow and rain, it's realible, efficient, light.
If it meets your needs, what's not to like?
-juice
It is extremely stable on any surface. Driving all 4 wheels through the diffs means there is 1/2 the torque at each wheel than in a 2WD. You are much less likely to have any wheel break traction.
If a wheel does break traction they usually have some method to bring it under control. Such as traction control with the brakes on the Merc or center Viscous with the Sube.
Thanks guys.
A LSD is a mechanical means of limiting slip, while T/C uses ABS. Though keep in mind the LSD is often only on one axle, while T/C works on both.
-juice
1. highlander with its vsc vs lsd
2. aud1 A4 quattro, excessive wind noise and cramped back seats.
2. passat 2001.5 four motion i think it lacks Traction control, Is it same torsen system as audi quattro? if it is scaled down how does it affect awd in passat
3. subaru line, is awd in it is so good that its looks an interior should be ignored?
4. Trailblazer cousins .
Help me choose !!!
I don't think the Passat's systems is scaled down, I would think it's identical. The Passat is bigger and heavier than the A4.
Subaru has several different AWD systems, VC, VC+LSD, auto-AWD, auto-AWD+LSD, VTD+LSD, VTD+traction control, so it really depends on which model you are interested in.
Each systems has its pros and cons. Torsens are highly desirable on the track, yet with zero traction to a side they fail to transfer power to the other, so on ice they faulter if you have no traction control too. They weigh more and cost more, too.
VC is simple, light, and effective. Costs less too, but takes longer to react than a Torsen.
The auto AWD on automatic Subies is more sophisticated than the VC. The catch is they some times feel more like FWD, which you may or may not like.
An LSD makes any of these better.
Traction Control makes any of these systems even better than those with an LSD.
In practice, any of these should be great for snow and on light gravel and sand trails. Audis and VWs do not really have any extra ground clearance, so the Subie would take the edge there. They're also more reliable and cost less.
The TrailBlaer is traditional truck, but I'll let others more familiar with it comment on its systems.
-juice
Can LSD or TRAC/braking actually be used on the front axle? It seems to me that the "telegraphing" to the steering wheel might be so severe as to "bust" someone's knuckles.
Has anyone ever experienced LSD on the front?
Also, Audi used to have 3 torsen diffs in their Quattros, before traction control replaced 2 of them (they were heavy and expensive).
But typically, at least, an LSD goes in the rear.
-juice
-mike
-mike