First car (classic?) to break 100 mph in 1/4 mile:
The 1959 Pontiac Catalina 389 with tri-power (3 carbs) at
Detroit dragway. Could this be considered a classic??
It was the Godfather of the '64 Pontiac GTO (same motor)..
Detroit dragway. Could this be considered a classic??
It was the Godfather of the '64 Pontiac GTO (same motor)..
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How did the bigger Mopars, like the Chrysler 300's and DeSoto Adventurers stack up back then? I know by 1957 the Adventurer's 345 Hemi put out 345 hp, without fuel injection, while the 300's were putting out up to 390 hp out of the 392 Hemi. Those were some pretty heavy cars though, compared to a 1957 Chevy. I guess the Dodge D-500, with its optional 340 hp 354 was probably at least the equal of them, considering its lighter weight.
One thing I've always been confused about...was the D-500's 354 a Hemi or a poly head engine? The lesser 354's in the Windsors and Saratogas were poly's, weren't they?
-Andre
Chrysler came out with their wedge head V-8's in 1959(?) and dropped all hemi production until 1964 when they put hemi heads on their 426 motor. The wedge was much cheaper to produce and weighed less.
Of course the old 392 hemi was the engine of choice for drag engine builders for many years, but they were just too expensive for Chrysler to manufacture.
A few years back, I remember seeing a 1956 Chrysler Windsor in the junkyard, and whatever it had was definitely a poly-head engine (exposed spark plugs, "saw-tooth" shape of the lower edge of the valve covers). According to my auto encyclopedia, it should have been a 331.1, with either 225 hp or 250 hp (2bbl vs 4bbl, I guess).
Now, something else I'm curious about...the Dodge 315/325 and the DeSoto 330.4, 341, and 345 all have the same stroke...3.80". Could this be an indication that DeSoto and Dodge used the same block? I know the Chrysler's block was bigger and heavier back then, but not sure about DeSoto/Dodge.
While the DeSoto Hemi's were phased out for 1958 in favor of 350 and 361 wedge-heads, it looks like the Dodge 325 held on another year, along with the Chrysler 354's and 392's. Chrysler's engines were replaced by 383's and 413's for 1959, while it looks like the Dodge 325 was retired in favor of a slightly bored out 318...a 326 offering 255 hp.
As for another possibly high-performance poly, this encyclopedia mentions a 325 from 1957, standard in the D-500. The horsepower is listed as 285/310, so evidently it came in two flavors, in addition to the more mundane 245 and 260 hp engines.
Oh yeah, as for performance times...here's about all I could find listed in this encyclopedia, and take it with a grain of salt: 1958 DeSoto Firedome w/ optional 305 hp 361 (standard in Fireflite): 0-60 in 7.7, 0-80 in 13.5, "and reached 115 mph with little strain". The main reason I question this is because the same book states that a 1959 Chrysler 300-E, "With 10.1:1 compression, Torqueflite, and a 3.31:1 rear axle ratio, the E could run 0-60 in less than 8.5, and reach 90 mph by 17.5 seconds." According to this book, the 300-E had a 413 with 380 hp. The book also lists weights...a '58 Firedome 2dr HT base weight was 3825 lb, while the '59 300-E 2dr HT weighed in at 4290. Would the 300-E's added weight be enough to offset 75 hp advantage it had over the '58 Firedome?
Here are a few more acceleration quotes from this book...
1951 Chrysler Saratoga: 0-60 in 10 seconds, top speed, 110 mph
1957 Dodge (no model specified, I'm guessig a Coronet), 245 hp 325: 0-60 in 9.5 seconds.
1960 Chrysler 300-F, 4speed manual, quarter mile in 16 seconds at 85 mph
As for the the original topic of this forum...first car to break 100 mph in the 1/4 mile...I'm still wondering what it could be. From memory, one of the quickest road test I remember was a Car & Driver (or Motortrend, forget which) test of a 1986 or '87 Buick Grand National. They got it to do 0-60 in 4.9 seconds, and the 1/4 mile in something like 14.9 seconds@95 mph. Of course, your mileage may vary ;-)
-Andre
The 300 was geared more as a high-speed crusier, with 3.54s in the first ones and 3.36 by '57. According to John Gunnell's book on 300s, they were relatively slow off the line (fairly tall gearing and lots of cam) but were still accelerating at 80-90 mph. He's got some 0-100 times in the 24 second range for the '57.
Has two roadtests of the '59, one showing 0-60 in 8.3 seconds and 0-100 in 22.5 seconds. The other test has a 1/4-mile time of 17.2 and 92 mph. The mph shows a serious weight-to-horsepower ratio but the time is slower--lots of weight and tall gears held it back. '59 standard ratio was 3.31 or 2.93.
You're right, the poly showed up in the Chryslers and DeSotos before '57. In fact, the '55 Windsor used a 301 that was probably a poly, maybe the same 301 used in the '57 Plymouth. The '59 Dodge 326 does look like a bored out 318 at 3.95 x 3.31.
One thing I believe about these 0-60 times for 1950s cars...I think many of these autos had very low gearing in the differential, as evidenced by rather modest top speeds....not that you'd WANT to go over 120 mph in a 4400 lb car with soft suspension, feeble brakes and 2 ply tires!
According to my auto encyclopedia, the '55 Dodge Royal should have had a 270.1 V-8, called the "Red Ram". It's got a 3.63x3.25 bore and stroke, and put out 175 hp base. The book doesn't specify on whether it was available as a poly, but if it had the spark plugs right through the center of the top of the head (you had to take a cover plate off the valve covers to get to the wires and plugs) then it was a Hemi. The original Red Ram, from 1953, was a Hemi, a 241.3 with a 3.44x3.25 borexstroke.
As for the gear ratios back then, I know they had a variety of options. One of the first 300's (don't remember if it was a '55 or '56) could be ordered with something like a 6.17:1 ratio. I'm sure that thing must have been a screamer...and a guzzler!
As for some REAL old performance times, this book also mentions the 1931-33 Imperial, powered by a 385 inline-8 with 125 hp. It weighed about 5,000 lb, and did 0-60 in about 20 seconds, with a top speed of 96 mph. Now THAT's a little scary, although supposedly Walter P. Chrysler put heavy emphasis on good brakes.
-Andre
I've got a banker's box full of '50s road tests that would probably answer most of these questions, but ol' Speedshift is working 70 hours a week during one of real estate's periodic upturns so it may be a while.
Pontiac Catalina w/Tri power 389 breaking 100 in 1/4 mi at
Detroit Dragway. Possibility exits your local library may have these old publicatiuons on microfilm....
Regards
Andy
early sixties stock car drag racer
muncie 4-speed, cutouts at exhaust pipe from engine,
3:70 axel. Turned 105 mph in 12.4 secs at Lyons Drag strip
in Wilmington, Ca in mid '62 until 1964, then sold car and went in Air Force.