Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
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MINI Cooper
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I was at one Los Angeles Mini dealer ready to sign all the paperwork and place a deposit when they mentioned to me that if I wanted the car held for me / taken off the lot, I would have to sign some sort of short-term contract stating that if I didn't come up with the rest of the cash (I'm paying cash), the deposit of $1,000 would be either used towards another car in their dealership or not refunded. Red flag #1. I then tried contacting my friend to ask his advice, no answer. Red flag #2. They give me the final tally with fees, tax, etc, and was shocked to see the almost $30,000 price! This did include the $1,000 above MSRP. Red flag #3.
I left. Got in the car and drove 45 minutes to South Bay Mini in Torrence where I ordered a Mini exactly the way I want it: Black on black "S" hatch with the 6-speed automatic, Premium and Convenience Packages, all the Sport Package contents a la carte (minus the 17" tires), Harmon Kardon, and the accessory iPod adapter. I asked what they needed to secure the order, and they mentioned a $1,000 refundable deposit. I'm paying MSRP, as they are one of two Mini dealers I know in the Los Angeles area not greedy. They expect it late May.
I was out of there in less than an hour, and treated with respect and courtesy that any customer should be treated, whether they're buying a car or a tie. I may have a bit of time to wait, but it will just give me more chances to check things out here.
I took a picture of the steering wheel with the paddles. The multi-function wheel had two more buttons than the current one. One was a telephone button, the other one I cannot remember now. I'll be interested to find out if the armrest / additional buttons are going to be on all Minis from now on.
I'm thinking of doing an upgrade to an MCS in spring and either trading in my Cooper or selling privately, depends on which will get me more and keeping my cost down on the MCS. What I'll be watching are those "document fees" they add on, that was $200 in spring of 03 when I got my first Mini and now up to $250-300. I have a hard time understanding their logic with these fees.
I put over 45k on Cooper(avg. 34mpg)in not quite 2 years now and have no complaints. There were issues but all taken care of under warranty with a loaner car each time.
The wait for yours will seem long but worth it.
Ray T.
If you're still in the market after this, I'd address your two concerns as follows:
1. Safety: The Mini has crash-tested fairly well. But it is certainly not going to fare well in a wreck with a 3-ton SUV. So there is definitely a tradeoff here. Since she just had a wreck with the Subaru, I'd think this would be on her mind. So be honest here - No, the Mini is probably not as safe as a Forester.
2. Reliability: The trend line is good, but CR still says that it's below average and that's the only non-anecdotal data we have. So if you/she are the type that don't mind an occasional warranty problem and will cut any new car a little slack for some teething issues, then I wouldn't worry about it - the car is basically reliable. But if think the #1 thing a new car should be is trouble-free, then get a Subaru, Honda, Toyota, or Mazda. And I wouldn't consider a Mini unless there is a dealer within a reasoable driving distance.
Final comment on the NYC commute. If this in on typical NYC roads, you're talking bad pavement. Sometimes really bad pavement. This can be tough on a Mini, especially one with the run-flat tires and 17-inch wheels. This is not a smooth-riding car. It is a great handling car, that is fine on smooth pavement, but a real tooth-rattler on rough and broken pavement.
It sounds like I'm negative - I'm not because I really like my Mini. But I see way too many people who buy this car because it is "so cuddly and cute" and have no interest in driving it in a sporting way and thus never really enjoy the car for what it does well. This is a serious car underneath that cute skin. Within a month, the cuteness has worn off and these owners are very unhappy with it because it is cramped, can't haul much of anything, isn't very luxurious, rides rough as heck, and doesn't get any better gas mileage than much larger cars. And has been in the shop for something. Minis are not for everyone.
My situation might be further amplication of this. When I bought my MCS a year ago, my wife and 10-year-old daugher thought this was the coolest thing in the world. They both loved in the first month. Now all they do is complain about it and they're pressuring me to sell it. My daughter wants me to get a Honda Element so her coolness is just wanting whatever is cool that day. But my wife's coolness is just that she isn't interested in the car's performanc and handling, and instead just endures the drawbacks. Once the cuteness wore off, there was nothing left in it for her. YMMV.
- Mark
Any ideas for a replacement,something that gets good mileage and is a little sportier.Preferably not Corolla, Accord.You know what I mean.
The WRX is in the $25K range but you get AWD which I think would be very handly driving in NYC winters.
The VW's are about to be revised to a new model, so might be a time to postpone six-months or so if you go this direction. OTOH, the existing model is proven and you should be able to drive a very aggressive deal.
The Mazda 3 gives you the best value and is very reliable. It would cost about the same as a base MC. If you like the Mazda 3, but want something more Euro, there's the Volvo V40 (or V50 if you prefer a wagon). These are somewhat more expensive, but still in the optioned-up MCS price range. I think they're available AWD too.
The Scion tC is getting rave reviews. It's targeted to Gen Y buyers, but then so is the Mini and it doesn't bother me at all to be 50+ and driving a Mini. It's a Toyota so it will be very reliable.
Another fine car in this segment is the Acura RSX.
- Mark
Just got back from Detroit and the North American International Auto Show. The people at the MINI display were a bit more knowledgable about what's to come. Beginning with January production, the Cooper S will come with a standard center armrest, a low washer fluid light at the end of the windshield wiper stalk, prewired for Bluetooth. I don't know if the Cooper will come with the same.
We have a discussion for members who are/were meeting up and give us "their report". If you get a chance, you can give your report:
Auto Show Season 2005 - Members Meet Up!
MT said it was second only to the Mini, needs more power the said.
6.4 0-60 time (MCS) and 8.1 is a huge difference.
I hear the Mini is quite the chick magnet! Beats $45k for a 'Vette!
Those iPod adapters, what do they go for? Are they available at the dealer?
DrFill
Thanks,
Hileatus
Thanks.
Regards,
Hileatus
1. What's the *real* comfort level for a guy who's 6'4" and 250 pounds? Although I will be the primary driver (I'm 5'3"), will my husband have to tuck himself into the car to fit? I've read in many articles that the interior is much larger than it appears, but I'd like to hear from someone who is that tall whether this is indeed true. We're considering a trip to a dealer to test drive, but I don't want to waste my time if it's true that a 6'4" guy will be packed in like a sardine.
2. What's the reliability like? Do Minis require a lot of time in the shop? Are repairs and general maintenance expensive?
Thanks for any advice.
1. Given the outside dimensions, the Mini is relatively roomy inside and offers similar room and comfort to competing small cars. I'm 6-2/220 and fit fine. Having said this, it's not a SUV and the seats aren't terribly large - I wish the bottom cushion was longer and had more thigh support. Also, entry/egress is none too easy - you sit pretty low and depending on how you have the steering wheel adjusted, clearance between the bottom of the wheel and the seat cushion can be limited. IOW, it's not a particulary easy car to get in/out of. Finally, the back seat just doesn't work unless you have the seats adjusted forward, so forget carrying anything but small children back there unless you're willing to slide the seats well forward, which is basically impossible for a 6-4 person.
2. Mini reliability is a mixed bag. The data(Consumer Reports) and my read of the anecdotal data on this forum and others is that reliability has improved from pretty bad to average or so. But its not a match with the best small cars (e.g., Hondas, Toyotas, Mazdas, etc.). And reliability of Euro cars like BMWs always has a different flavor to it - robust basic systems like engine, drivetrain, etc., but a lot of fit/finish issues, software glitches, electrical problems, etc.
On the seating issue, you definitely have to go drive the the car before deciding.
On the reliability issue, I'd put it this way: If you are going to be taken aback and/or mad if your new car has a few teething issues or your dealer is very far away, I'd skip the Mini. But if you really like the car and feel working through some minor problems is just part of the joy of owning a car that is different from the typical Japanese econobox, then go for it.
- Mark
This seems awful compared with your 34 mpg.
Do I need to get something checked?
Cheers,
Shin
Thanks!
Ray T.
Assuming there is salt on the roads I could see where frequent rinsing would be in order.
Thanks,
Hileatus
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
- Mark
If you still want the Mini, I'd look into ordering the car from another dealer out of state. I suspect there are many dealers who have allocations and would take your order for MSRP. I got my car in Texas for MSRP, flew in, and drove home. It was fun.
- Mark
Hileatus
Good luck. Jon
2. I don't think the Canadian Mini has the LSD added for '05. And I also don't think Canadian Mini has free service for the 1st 3 years. Can anyone verify whether that?
3. Does the dealer-installed security system come with a flashing LED? And if so, where do they put it?
Thanks in advance.
I am new in here. I just have a mini cooper S '05 arrived last weekend. Feeling so good to drive on it. But I noticed that the wheels (17' inch, flat tire all season) don't have wheel lock for each of wheel. Is that the way the MiNi Manufactory supplying? If that is true, I may think it beat me off b/c basically It should go with the wheels. If I want to have that lock, where should I go to get it?
A major question is the car don't have a spare tire going with. If I want to install one then where I should put it in the car. I don't see any extra space to install the spare tire. Does anyone have any experience on having flat-tire on the road w/o spare tire. Then what did u do when u were in the case of trouble.
Please help me out of this, I am afraid to have a long trip w/o spare tire. Don't ignore my questions :-) Thanks a lot..
Wheel locks do not come standard, but you can buy accessory wheel locks from your dealer or from the aftermarket. From the dealer, they list for $31.
All S models come standard with "run flat" tires. As you have noted, there is no room for a spare, that's the reason for the run-flats. These tires are designed so that you can continue to drive them for a limited time when a tire goes flat so that you can get to someplace where they can be repaired. The car includes a tire pressure monitoring system to warn you when a tire is getting low.
Some folks have mounted spares in their Minis, but I wouldn't recommend it - to mount a full-size tire, you basically lose the back seat. The run-flat tire system, while somewhat compromising the ride/handling, handles the problem of flats very well.
You might want to spend some time with the Owners Manual where this is all covered.
- Mark
The call back rate when both pads and rotors are replaced is much less, so it's just easier for the dealer to take the "replace everything" approach. In addiition, many dealers do not like to resurface rotors so they can get cars in/out faster if they just replace. If they can keep their service bays full of cars this way from people who are willing to pay, why not?
The new rotors on cars these days are not generous with respect to thickness, so resurfacing can drop them below spec. What I do is visually inspect the rotor for both wear and scoring and if it looks good and passes spec, I just replace pads. By doing so, I typically get a 2-3 sets of pads, and then replace the rotors. I've never had any issues with this approach.
To give you an idea of the savings, on my last service visit (another make of car) the dealer wanted $1200 for all new pads and rotors. I did my own inspection and found the front pads had about 25% of their life left and the rears 50%. So I drove another 8K miles, then replaced the front pads myself for $75 in parts. I certainly will need new rear pads in the next 10K or so, and will have to replace the rotors eventually, but right now I'm ahead $1125. The brakes have worked perfectly for the last 15K miles since this service visit.
Having said all this, if you have the dealer do the work, you'll likely get a first rate job and you'll have all new parts that will go the distance. It's just a terribly expensive and inefficient way to do brakes.
If you don't want to do it yourself, you may be working against dealer policy by requesting a pad change only, so you might want to seek out an independent shop that isn't so anal about this. Or you could go with one of the chain muffler/brake shops, although some of these guys are pretty shady in the bait/switch business practices and don't always do the best work. But IMHO, around the time when you need brakes is a good time to start looking to develop a relationship with a good independent shop.
Good luck,
- Mark
Thanks so much! It really troubled me and for a minute I actually considered dumping my poor little MINI because of it. As a result of your message, I've located an indie shop that seems to be willing to go against "dealership recommendation," assess the legitimate damage and replace the pads only if that's what needs to be done. I ran my car through a brake shop we'll just call "M" to protect anonymity, and I knew I was in deep BS because the guy called the dealership (as he was flipping through my MINI manual apparently looking for additional information).
Thanks again.
What do you think of the restyled grill?
I don't see much other change.
The brakes worked perfect after the install with less dusting than the stock pads. Total cost was under $70.00.
- Mark
As someone else has pointed out, the Mini is not an economy car, but a premium subcompact.
I do mostly highway and at 49k my pads should give me 60 to 70 k on first set.
I did ask mechanic during a recent "tech night" at dealers what is involved when changing out disc pads and he stressed that when pads are changed you also MUST change the left front & right rear brake pad sensors. Then have dealer reset computer. So you may be able to do yourself but the dealer is still needed to reset the computer for the new sensors required, unfortunatly.
PS: Just had the 2nd steering rack assembly replaced in my Cooper under warranty last week. Only had 17k on it since last changed in July 04. That makes 6 warranty repairs to date on my 2003. Thank goodness it was still under warranty or it would have been costly. Only benefit was they gave me an "S" as a loaner for the day.
Ray T.
- Mark
This the relatively simple standard system which detects if a driven wheel is spinning and cuts engine power or applies the brakes to avoid wheelspin. It's mostly to help manage traction and avoid getting stuck in ice/snow.
DSC = Dynamic stability control
This is a much more sophisticated system designed to keep the car from skidding or fishtailing in a turn and potentially going into a spin. It uses sensors which constantly monitor the rate the car is turning/yawing vs. the rate it should be turning based on speed and steering wheel angle. If the two don't match, then it cuts engine power and/or brakes individual wheels to try and stop the skid.
On related note, a recent study has shown that DSC-type systems have been VERY effective in reducing accident rates, in marked contrast to the data on ABS which hasn't shown much reduction. Many theorize that this is because DSC requires no changes in driver technique - it simply works - whereas many drivers don't learn to properly apply the brakes hard and continue steering as they should on an ABS-equipped car.
Most think DSC is a very worthwhile safety option.
- Mark
Yep, I agree - Mini's are just not paradigms of trouble-free driving like an Accord. They seem to be getting better, but "better" in the Mini case seems to be going from pretty awful to about average. And "average" is just not as good as most Hondas and Toyotas.
- Mark