MINI Cooper

trulytruly

Hi there,

Just wondering whether any of you have sold your used Minis, and if so, how?

Fwiw, I get about 26 mpg city on my manual MC (2003), but try to avoid using the auto climate control because that lowers the mpg.

Thanks.

rdubs

Hi everyone,
Anyone out there heard any news about the new 2007 Cooper S, what the horsepower would be with the JCW package? I'd imagine it would be better than the current 2006 JCW horsepower since the new one is a turbocharger, even though you'd have to fight turbo lag. Any thoughts or rumors?
Thanks!

cct1

The 2007 JCW specs haven't been announced yet--there's really no info on it as of yet. Turbo lag however, should be minimal, as it's a twin scroll turbo, and it kicks in at about 1500 RPM.

fedssocr

Hello all. I am 99% ready to place an order for a base MC along with a bunch options that put the price around $24700.

I was wondering if any of you got the navigation system and what you think of it. I generally stay away from them because I'm not sure how useful it would be to me for the amount of money it costs. But I hate the center mount speedometer so I will either get the chrono package or the nav system.

Also, has anyone spent the $500 for the satellite radio option? That seems pretty expensive, so I'm wondering what you get for that much money.

Kirstie_H

A reporter from a national newspaper would like to speak to current Mini owners who would be willing to share their thoughts about the new wagon the Mini unveiled at the Detroit Auto Show. If you would to speak with the media, please respond to ctalati@edmunds.com with your daytime contact info., city/state of residence and how long you’ve owned your Mini no later than January 17, 2006.

Kirstie_H

A reporter from a national newspaper would like to speak to current Mini owners who would be willing to share their thoughts about the new wagon the Mini unveiled at the Detroit Auto Show. If you would to speak with the media, please respond to ctalati@edmunds.com with your daytime contact info., city/state of residence and how long you’ve owned your Mini no later than January 17, 2006.

markjenn

Nav and sat radio are options whose value is very indivdual. For some they are virtually worthless (me), others think they are necessary additions to every car.

I'm not a fan of German nav systems. Lexus and Acura systems are considered some of the very best for ease of use - BMW, Mercedes, and Audi systems are considered some of the worst. I'd try and get a good demo of the system before buying. Also, the value of a nav system has a lot to do with whether you often drive in unfamiliar areas or find yourself having to find places you've never been before.

Most folks who have tried sat radio really like it. But keep in mind that there is a monthly subscription cost to add to the initial price. Here again, much would depend on whether you spend long hours in your car, whether you often travel distances where long-term radio reception is difficult, and finally, whether you tend to listen to your own programming (e.g, CDs/MP3s) vs. commercial programming.

For both nav and sat systems, you can spend a lot less for more capability in the aftermarket. And probably have systems you can use in other cars or in your home. But aftermarket systems are never as nicely integrated into the vehicle. It's a lot like phones - integrated car phones are ridiculously expensive and limited to only the car, but they are very nicely integrated. For some, this level of integration is very important.

This obviously doesn't jive with your desires, but I personally find all the Cooper options very overpriced compared to base cars. Buying a guzzied-up MC for $24,700 when you could get a base MCS for $21,450 makes no sense to me. But that's my value assessment not yours, and I put the emphasis on the driving enjoyment and performance of the car, not the gadgets in the car.

- Mark

adelvice

Well, considering Euro cars are on the bottom totem poll for reliability as per JD and CR doesn't make that valid. Ford is more reliable in the US cars and getting better.

And the new mustang GT which has been out for only a year or two is recommended by CR, although the v6 isn't.

I had my heart set on mustang, but I'd want the big v8 and insurance would kill as would gas.

miniluna

Greetings, I have a question on RPMs and Shifting on the Mini S. I was thinking of joining SCCA and trying their competition driving school. I like to drive in the Solo events, against time, like the cones and driving through a road course as fast as I can safely. It would be fun to push the car, I love driving on the country winding New England roads, but with the speed limit at 35mph up to 45mph, I am always looking over my shoulder for the cops. Now, back to shifting. In the low gears, first, second, third, fourth, how far can I push the RPMs. I read somewhere that on the cone course; some cars are only using first and second gear. I am thinking in the Mini S second and third, not first, would be fun. Can you go up to 6,000RPMs in first, second, and third, without blowing up the engine or cause damage. I know not to push the red line, but how far can you safely push the RPMs without damage to the engine. Also is 2,500 RPMs the sweet spot for each gear and speed for normal driving? I seem to shift normally at around 3,000 plus RPMs. – Mark, do you have some comments?

cct1

For around town, I really don't pay too much attention--I shift by feel. I'll have to look at it more closely, but it's probably around 3500 RPMs for normal driving.

For spirited driving, 6000 RPMS is no problem at all--in fact, that's where you want to be when you shift. The car was designed for this--the gearbox for example is much more robust (and heavier) compared to the Cooper. It's amazing how much different this car drives if you shift at 6000 RPMs. On another site, someone did some very elegant curves with regard to shift patterns to maximize acceleration, and the bottom line is that the maximum powerband of an unmodified S is between 4000 and 6000 RPMs. So for autocrossing/track, the "sweet spot" is 4000-6000; obviously it's going to be lower for everyday driving. For autocrossing, most people don't ever make it out of 2nd, or rarely, 3rd gear (you can go pretty fast at 6000 RPMs in second, as you know).

If you shift at 6000 RPMs, you'll be at about 4000 RPMs in the next highest gear (this isn't exactly the same for each gear; you can experiment with it to find out yourself) putting yourself right in a perfect spot for continuing acceleration, but above 6000 RPMs, you're losing acceleration efficiency.

One of the things I love about the MCS is you can drive it tame, and it behaves very civilized, and very comfortably, and functions as a great "around town" car. On the other hand in the same day, you can take it out on the highway, shift at higher RPMs, and you get that wonderful growl and acceleration that feels more like a sports car than a luxury car. The MCS can truly be driven like it has a split personality, depending on the situation. Very few cars have this dramatic of a difference, depending on how you drive it.

markjenn

The MCS engine is robust and you shouldn't have any issues running it hard right up to redline and/or the rev-limiter. The MCS is the basis of several classes of spec racing and run the piss out of these engines.

Of course, do this consistently and you'll likely not get the same engine life as someone who drives more sedately, but most drivers on public roads can't drive the car consistently hard enough and keep their driver's license to make this much of an issue.

Stock, the MCS motor is a mid-range torque motor. It has a soft bottom end (below 3K), and power tapers off and the engine gets a bit thrashy up near redline. But keep it in that sweat swell of torque between 3K to 6K and it is a very satisfying car to drive quickly. And is has excellent engine and chassis balance at this level of power - you're not overwhelming the front wheel traction and causing torque steer.

- Mark

crunch

I frequently participate in Drivers Education events at various tracks here in Tx. While on the track RPMs stay between 4500 and 6500 for the entire session. The most noticeable effect is that gas mileage drops to about 10mpg or less. My MCS/JCW seems to be right a home at the high rpms. Remember, you have a computer controlled rev limiter so you can't over-rev by acceleration, only by choosing the wrong gear when downshifting. Have Fun, Drive it like you stole it!

miniluna

Thanks Mark , Crunch, and others, on RPMs and spirited track driving. Crunch, you mentioned over-rev when down shifting, by using the wrong gear when down shifting. What do mean by the wrong gear? How do you prevent over-rev? If for example, I am in Third gear pushing 6,000 RPMs; and down shift to Second gear, I will probably be at 4,000 RPMs, will I feel a large slow down surge and moaning sound from the engine. I remember when I was a kid, learning how to drive a standard, someone said when down shifting, when you push down on the clutch, slightly push on the throttle to rev up the engine, so to help bring up the revs to a higher level to accept the lower gear more efficiently. This habit stuck, even today when normal driving, when I down shift, I always give the throttle a gentle nudge, but again I am not pushing the RPMs. Do you think this is a good practice, and be I good thing to do when pushing the RPMs? I know that scary engine surge and drag when missing the next lowest gear, like down shifting from Fifth, missing Fourth, and going into Second, But I quickly correct it, clutch and go back to the correct gear. Comments? – Mark, Crunch.

plekto

1:It's reversed on the RPMs, of course 6000in 3rd and going to 2nd will get you into 8000 range or so, which the computer will engage the limiter on. Oh, and their advice was backwards - you want to rev it a little bit when you shift *up* to the next higher gear, as the engine will drop down to 2-3000rpm if you let it.

2:Because of the syncros in a manual transmission, it's possible to do things like a 5th to 2st accidental shift, even with the clutch engaged, and shred the syncros. Not likely, but possible. The Mini *should* be engineered to handle this sort of abuse, but racing isn't without its possible problems. This is one reason most professional racers now use automatics - that, and it's infinately faster to shift one. A good racing transmission can go through gears in a fraction of a second, while the best you can do with a clutch is maybe half a second.

Unfortunately, Mini decided to not have a normal automatic and went with the gutless CVT, so that option is out. But on something like an IS350, the shifters on the wheel are worlds better than the manual.

kyfdx

1) The rev limiter will not protect you, if you downshift into a lower gear than you should... The rev limiter can only cut power to the engine.. It can't protect against a mechanical over-rev.. If you are doing 6K RPM in 3rd gear, and downshift into second, you will likely blow your engine.. this is known as the "money-shift"... Avoid this at all costs... If you have engine damage, the service department will check the engine diagnostics computer and it will show the over-rev... and they will not cover the repair.

2) Blipping the throttle on downshifts, to match the higher revs is a good thing.. and will decrease wear on the transmission.. (That said, I rarely do it).

regards,
kyfdx

markjenn

Car and Driver had a nice report on one of the new dual-mechanical-clutch auto (with paddle shifters) VW GTI's the other day. This seems like a pretty cool way to go - absolutely perfect throttle blips and rev-matching, along with complete protection against overrevs. And no sloppy torque convertor. Much as I love my Mini, this car has me thinking.

- Mark

crunch

I was referring to the mechanical over-rev that was explained by out host very well. The blipping of the throttle on the downshift is to match the engine speed with the newly selected gear to prevent slowing the car when you release the clutch. Commonly called heal-toe shifting. I'm being trained to race and it has been explained over and over that a downshift is NOT to slow the car but to prepare for acceleration out of the turn. Brakes are used exclusively to slow the car. Does this wear out the brakes? Yep, but what is cheaper, brakes or a new engine?

cooperlady

I would never choose a Ford over a Mini Cooper. However the Ford Mustang is nice and so is the Freestyle and Ford Five Hundred. :P

bodble2

Ford Five Hundred...nice?!? :confuse: :surprise:

vwzip

I am a guy and I like the Mini for its tight handling, unique look, and overall coolness. My friend agrees but thinks it is a girl car. (Well, he is an idiot in this case.)

So we decided to conduct and informal poll: I was surprised that most of the people (well at least the ones at the party agreed with him). But the ones that agreed with me are those who seems to be more enthusiastic with performance and types that you might find at an autocross event.

Anyways, it seems like the most common perception is that it is a girls car because it is "cute". What do you guys think? What do you girls think? What is the most important factor that influenced in buying the Mini?

njexpress

Folks,
After passionately following the anticipated release of the 2007 mini for nearly a year, I decided to go ahead with a Honda S2000 as it is now obvious that the redesigned Mini convertible does not seem to be arriving any time soon - not in fall of 2006 at least. Besides, when I test drove the S2000 (for the 19th time ) last week, I just could not wait any longer- It was too tempting to pass up on all the raw performance and the true track car handling, not to mention the compelling thought that spring is right around the corner :shades: . It is pre-owned but has very low miles, has an optional hardtop and meticulously maintained. My mechanic gave it a 10 over 10.
As much as I am excited about my S2K, the Minis I see on the roads will always bring a smile to my lips
I will keep surfing this thread off and on; I wish all of you the very best with your quest(s) for the '07 MCs. Maybe, when it is time to replace my M-Class, I will settle for a traveller...
Cheers!!
--njexpress

cct1

I absolutely love my Mini--but the S2000 is a fantastic car as well; I like it much better than the Miata--more of a drivers car, IMHO. Congratulations--sounds like you got a great deal; don't think you can go wrong with an S2000.

If I was in your situation, I'd personally go with an S2000 over a 2007 Mini anyway (can't believe I just wrote that); I'd wait at least a year on the Mini, until the 2008's, to let them get the bugs out. Hopefully you'll get a Mini down the road though--it is hands down the most fun I've had driving. Haven't driven the new Porsche Caymen yet though....

njexpress

Hi CCT1 - Thanks for the kind words..
I do genuinely hope I did the right thing - As you said, 2008 would be a good year to go for the Mini (although I think I disagreed with you there in one of my earlier posts before ;-) and insisting on the 07's being good enough ).
But now that I have an S2K, I find myself on the prowl for the mini!!! But hopefully, by '08, it should definitely be out and proven reliable, in convertible AND traveller forms.
Cheers!!
--njexpress

fergin

Is MINI planning on improving the visibility for 2007 or beyond?

fergin

The title should be roll bars

Kirstie_H

A large newspaper reporter aims to interview someone who is on the waiting list for a Mini Cooper. Please respond to ctalati@edmunds.com before Sunday, March 4, 2006 with your daytime/weekend contact info.

neuron

from what I understand, you can still purchase convertable in current configuration through '07 until the redesigned version come out with convertable

surjn98

My wife has a 2003 MINI and always has electrical problems. Hope they can fix the bugs.

laynetc

I was really torn between 06 and 07 mini. Power was an issue, as was wait. I test drove a mini and was able to convince the dealer to give me one off the showroom floor. I guess I lucked out. Anyway, I went with the standard Mini. The S is great, and I will likely step up to an S later, but the motor in the regular mini is great for commutes and has the fun factor. 180hp sound great, but I will wait for 08. I can trade my current Mini for an 08 version "S" and not have to worry so much about bugs that come with the first model year. By the way, I don't care what anyone says -- it may be a girls car, but I am a 6'2" guy that fits great in this thing. Besides, I don't have to fill up every day with fuel

mrwizzard

I agree with you!
It's a cool car.

bamatt

The '02 & '03 Minis were the most unreliable. Starting w/the '05's the new-car bugs have (for the most part) been worked out. While I am sure the '07 will have a few new bugs, I would think the reliability would be way above the 02-03 years.

bamatt

Next time you get around some meathead guys who like their muscle-cars & they all say the Mini is a cute, girls car...take them for a nice speedy ride thru the twisties in it. That should shut them up.

I am a girl w/a Mini but the Mini definitely isn't a girls-only car. Let a guy in a new Mustang park beside a Mini & see who gets the most attention. Mustang-who?

twain

Anyways, it seems like the most common perception is that it is a girls car because it is "cute". What do you guys think?
-----------------------------------

The base Mini is a girls car. The Cooper S is a guys car.

surjn98

I would be cautious with the new model. The MINI has too many problems.

surjn98

With all the problems and unreliability, the MINI is not worth the money. You pay mostly for the hard metal. I would not recommend this car to anyone.
I would also be more cautious with the new 2007 model based on past experience.

cct1

That's partially true. The reliability of the 2005 Mini is now good enough that Consumer Reports recommends the Mini. But I'd agree I'd be a little hesitant on a 2003, or 2007 for that matter too--although I'd bet the 2007's will be more reliable than the 2002's.

"You pay mostly for hard metal" is an overstatement--the next generation Mini will be the first generation that BMW will actually turn a profit on the car. A base MCS, for what you get, and when you take depreciation into account, it actually a pretty good deal, even at MSRP.

I have a 2006, and it's by far the best car I've ever owned Not the most expensive, but from a sheer fun standpoint, it's been a blast. And, knock on wood, no problems to date....

bugsie

I have gathered some information on the 2007 MINI from various UK magazines and reports. None of the articles were verified by BMW and so information I have reproduced is a best guess as to what we can expect.

The word is that the current MINI, let's call it MINI1, was over engineered, meaning there was too much technology packed into a small car for it to make a profit. That really makes sense if you think about it because prior to the MINI1, BMW had never made small cars and so they approached the MINI project with a luxury car mentality i.e. they over engineered it. This means that the 2007 MINI, lets call it MINI2, will differ from MINI1 primarily through cost saving engineering changes. These changes include the removal of multi link rear suspension; turbos instead of superchargers; clamshell hood being be replaced with a traditional hood between fixed front wings like the original Mini. Other changes will include more suspension travel for a softer ride, but I wonder how that will affect handling. The other word on the street is that the quality of interior trim is going to be improved and the elimination of multi link suspension will increase space for rear seat passengers.

In summary, we can expect MINI2 to be very similar in overall appearance to MINI1, but with cosmetic improvements to the interior. This will probably make the car more attractive when it is sitting in the showroom, but I wonder how the engineering cutbacks will affect performance, specifically handling, when it is on the road. I'm sure the Peugeot engines are going to be very good and fuel economy will be significantly better, but we will have to see how the typical turbo snap of power compares with the progressive surge of a supercharger.

bugsie

In the 50+ years of Mini's existance it has been driven by men and women of all classes, has won numerous rally titles around the world and has been raced competitively for longer than most other cars in existence. It was also voted the second best car of the 20th century by the world motoring elite (the Model T Ford came first).

With a track record like that, anyone who thinks a MINI is a girls car obviously hasn't got a clue about what they are talking about. They are also probbaly American males who think that a performance car has to have a hulking V8 engine, an automatic gearbox and can accelerate quickly in a straight line amid clouds of burning rubber. A true performance car is one that handles the twists and turns without throwing its wheels in the air in surrender. A MINI can out-handle most cars on the road, including sports cars costing thousands more. If the measure of masculinity is performance then the MINI most certainly is a mans car.

pretzelb

My brother has a Mini and a BMW roadster so he qualifies as a "car guy" and appreciates the Mini for it's driving capability. My girlfriend was looking to buy a Mini because she likes to own cars that she looks good in. If that doesn't tell you that it's at least both a girl's car and a driver's car I don't know what will.

With my informal survey I see more women driving Mini's then I see men. There maybe a bias here in the US towards larger cars for a few reasons. Some prefer the larger engine from the "good old days" but I think practically there is a bias against small cars because of the sheer number of large cars on the road. Show me all the crash tests you want but it's hard to convince me that an average small car is safer than an average mid sized car when in a collision with an SUV or truck or even a full sized sedan. I suspect that this thinking also goes through many people's minds.

Having said all that, there is the physical aspect to consider. On average men are bigger than women and will feel more comfortable with a larger car.

cct1

With regard to safety, in a head on collision, a Mini will lose to virtually any other vehicle--the most important thing in a head on collision is weight.

However, the most common cause of collision/injury/death is not a head on collision, but an offset crash--and the Mini actually does significantly better than an F150 pickup, according to the NHTSA (there was a big article about this in USA Today a while back). This is both an indication on how safe the mini is, especially for a small car, and how poorly the F150 is designed for safety.

dcrisler

Well i just drove the GTI and that dsg tranny is incredible. in full auto mode... you could not tell it was a standard, in manual mode, the steering wheel buttons were too much fun. That being said one of my fav trannies was in my S2000. they set a really high standard that mini does not come close to.

njexpress

njexpress

Cute as a longhaired miniature dachshund, Yes, but Girl's car?? I don't think so!! I have (well, had, until I could wait no longer for the redesign) no issues owning one!!
Mini is very unisex, IMHO... unless they came up with some special paint editions.
As to reliability of the redesign, well, I have mixed opinions there - Mini has always taken a rap on electrical issues, among others. A redesign does not guarentee that all such issues will be eliminated, whether in the first model year or beyond. Only time will tell. (A redesign to an unreliable car compares to building a new school in a bad school district. It wouldn't necessarily improve the standards - The teachers and the students that form the school district will still be the same!!)

eashley

I have an '03 Mini, with 45K on it, and have had superb reliability. That doesn't mean that ALL Minis are that reliable, and correspondingly, it doesn't mean that if one of the forum posters had a problem, that there is a reliability issue with ALL Minis. I get irritated at these slams, this is the best car I have ever owned, and I have owned a lot of them.
As to being a girls car cause it s cute, yes it is cute, but so am I, especially in my Mini, and I am a 6'3" ex-Marine

eashley

surjn, why are you on this forum if you don't like the Mini? I have seen several negative posts from you. My '03 has been very reliable, the best car I have ever owned in over 40 years of car ownership, and I am already playing around with colors and options for my next one. I think it is a GREAT car.

extech2

I hate to correct you guys about the Mini being a "girl's" car - it is not - it's a "chicks' car"

hileatus

If it's not too late and far for you, International Autos in Milwaukee WI sell at MSRP.

coupah

Mini of Peabody in Peabody Mass. They sell at MSRP and have plenty of stock.

soloink

I am about to place an order for 2006 MCS with manual transmission but while reading some posting I have read about clutch/transmission problems that are found in the Mini's manual transmission models. Most don't offer information on the year or exact model they are having the problem with. I spoke with a mini owner that stated that he had his clutch replaced 3 times and the dealer does not want to honor the warranty on another replacement. This person lives in the mountains so I think excessive wear because of going up hills in traffic is the actual problem. Just want to know if the 2006 MCS 6-speed manual transmission is good or this is a transmission to avoid ?

If anyone has any input it would be appreciated.

markjenn

The five-speed MC transmission is not well regarded, but most seem to think the six-speed Gertrag gearbox in the MCS is a pretty good box. As to the clutch, I think you'll find that any sporting car with a manual transmission has some small percentage of folks who, for one reason or another, have serious and continued clutch problems. And that all mfgs eventually say "enough is enough" and will refuse repeated warranty repairs when they suspect clutch abuse. I personally don't think the MCS clutch is fragile or unusually problem prone.

At this time, I wouldn't let clutch/tranny worries stop you from getting a MCS. But the new model on the horizon might be a reason to postpone and see what it offers, particuarly with respect to some of the Mini's weak points, such as fuel mileage. And make sure this is a car you want to keep for a reasonble period - the honeymoon where one could flip their year-old MCS for about what they paid are ending.

- Mark