Pontiac GTO

rcc442

"...One thing I learned yesterday is, on the '05's, there is a table where GM limits the throttle, based on pedal input and engine RPM (i.e. cruising at 1000 rpm, and floor the pedal, it will take away some of the input and not take you to WOT as fast as the vehicle could go)...."

This, and the "pedal sensor problem" are exactly why I am upset that GM went with drive-by-wire for the LS2, rather than a throttle cable as the LS1 had in the '04 (and every other car I've ever owned). Why do they constantly need to over-complicate things? As you complicate systems, you introduce additional areas for potential errors or failures. The "pedal sensor problem" is an excellent example.

And, when I press the pedal, I want the engine to respond. I don't want software to do a series of calculations, look up values in a table, and then decide the degree to which the throttle will actually be opened, and how quickly, for me!

I guess I really should have moved on the remaining '04's... While I thought the '05's were better (with the LS2, beefed up A4, hood scoops, and split tailpipes), now I'm not so sure. The LS1 is a proven engine (has had 7 years of experience and bugs worked out), and the throttle table for the LS2 may actually limit your use of the 50 extra hp anyway.

hammen2

HPTuners can take that pedal look-up table out. I realize it's a $500 piece of software and it requires you to have a Windows PC, preferably a laptop, to use, but you can probably find someone locally with the software (where are you?) who would do it for you for $100 or so. There are other, non-critical adjustments you can make (i.e. set the speed limiter to 255 mph, turn completely off the torque management and the A4 abuse mode, et. al.). Just don't start messing with fuel trims and spark unless you know what you are doing - I've seen pics of blown LS1's due to bad/incompetent tunes...

--Robert

sputterguy

That certainly explains things. The first '05 I drove would chirp the tires when I tapped the throttle. Every '05 I've driven since then has seemed sluggish when first hitting the throttle. I'll bet that first one had that table disabled for some reason. I should have bought that one. No wonder no one is getting stated 0-60 and quarter mile times. What a drag...

mitsurob

Have been looking at GTO's and just wondering for those longer term owners, if you have over time noticed any rattles, squeaks, etc. develop as the car accumulates some miles. The new ones I have test driven seem to be tight, but just wondering if they develop any rattles in the dash or doors, etc. as miles are added.
Same question applies for the stereo speakers. Seem like good sound but just wondering over time if they maintain their initial quality or develop rattles. (I hate rattles in a car..in case you couldn't tell!).

herzdawg007

Man, has anyone looked at the 04 Lingenfelter packages? Wow! He has a couple of engine rebuild packages that put out 450 and 510bhp! The only problem is that they will put you back $6895 and $24995 (dang!) respectively. He also installs a supercharger package that gives 400rwhp and costs $8495. I can't wait until 05 packages are available! I'm sure he could easily achieve 500+ horsepower. That would be one awesome ride! (If you can afford it....)

preformancenut

I also have a midnight blue six speed with 471 miles and have not had any problems with throttle response. KNOCK ON WOOD.

hammen2

No rattles with either of my cars, except my dash squeaked on my first GTO, but that's only after the dealer disassembled it and messed it up (one of many reasons why that car got bought back and I'm on #2).

I replaced the door panel and rear panel speakers, as well as the subwoofers, since the stock ones sound like cr, er, junk. Only spent $150 or so and the improvement (especially in clarity of sound, particularly at higher sound levels) is fantastic. After looking at the stock speakers - they are absolute paper junk. I'm not out to bomb the bass/wake up the neighbors/set off car alarms with my stereo, but I don't want distortion at middle volumes...

--Robert

hammen2

The supercharger they are selling is a Magnuson... which is not a great performer, at least on the LS1 GTO, under that hood. Heat soak is a huge issue with the GTO's, and put the aluminum Maggie under there and it becomes a giant heat sink... you will not get the power levels you should from a Maggie, no matter how it's tuned, due to this issue...

will05gto

There is a Supercharger out there for the LS2. The Eaton M122 inner cooled supercharger is being used in the Cadillac STS SAE 100. It puts out 505 HP @ 5600 RPM's and 520 #'s of torque @ 3600 RPM's with 7lb. of boost.

billsoter

Someone I know is contemplating buying a 2005 GTO with automatic transmission. What is the consensus concerning this vehicle's performance in snow?

hammen2

I would at least plan on putting a decent set of snow tires on the car. Where exactly is your friend? What's their annual snowfall? The advantage of the six-speed is the second-gear start. I have an A4 but, here in Wisconsin, it goes into storage in November and comes out in early April. I know some folks for whom the GTO is their daily driver year-round. As long as you have a good set of snows, you should do as well as any F-body or other heavy RWD coupe. You're not going to do too well with 9-12+" of snow on the ground, is all, due to clearance issues...

Certain aspects of the car show its Australian heritage, and how it really wasn't designed for cold climates. For example, there are no HVAC ducts under the front seats. The side windows tend to fog unless you remember to turn on the A/C (something that's typically done automagically when the defrost is activated in most GMNA cars). The door switch sensors on the '04's don't seem like they would hold up well in a cold and snowy environment (revised for '05).

--Robert

mparis1

1. where can i purchase touch-up paint for cyclone grey color? cannot find any in stores.
2.K/N drop in air filter for 2005 is out? p/n 2978?..does it do anything for performance?
3. SLP 160' THERMOSTAT replacement? does it do anything for performance?
4. PREDATOR Diabolo sport PCM programmer is out for the 2005???anybody heard about this??

thanks everybody...

hammen2

1. Your dealership will have it in bottles and spray cans. The paint codes for Cyclone Gray Metallic are 12U and WA-276M.
2. K&N... don't know yet. The '04 proved to have 12-19 rwhp benefits, but the MAF tube is bigger on the '05, so I kinda doubt it will provide that much benefit. Interesting was the '05 GTO prototype at the GTO Nationals had a "GM Performance Parts" intake on it...
3. Some say the 160 thermostat helps - don't know if on an '05.
4. Haven't heard if the Predator is out yet for '05. I'm using the stock predator tune on my '04 auto, and it helps, but it's not the end-all or be-all of performance. Think I'll be buying HPTuners 2.0 soon, and selling my Predator to another '04 owner.

--Robert

oldbob

GM sent me touch-up in cy grey with a discount coupon with the dealer name on it. Call 800# for cust. service and maybe they can take care of it.

hammen2

As I posted here last week, the GM Employee Pricing for Everyone promotion has been extended until August 1, however, the GTO will be excluded, due to great sales/low product availability:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/auto_incentives;_ylt=AiiBlEC.Zw9vNeMLc9pu39EEtbAF;_ylu=X3oDMTBi- MW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

--Robert

magnumforc

Custom matched paint for scratches and chips is available through http://www.paintscratch.com/ Their color matching and paint pens are outstanding. I had a scratch on the right door of my 05 Phantom Black GTO (put there by the eejit at the dealer, no less) that I touched up following the instructions provided by Paint Scratch. It turned out great and you would need a magnifying glass and know exactly where to look to even begin to find it. Not cheap but they guarantee the match. Plus, you will need clearcoat as well as the main color.

I use it on all our cars and they match the colors perfectly every time!.

gnxdanman

The 2005 A4 GTO also has a 2nd gear start as well in addition to the Traction Control. If you put the automatic into 2 it will start in 2nd! Mine does. I'm sure it is still NOT a good car in the snow.

elkiii

Just a comment on the snow tires. If you have the 18" wheels like I do you may want to consider buying a set of 17" wheels and tires for winter.I haven't come across any snow tires available in the stock size for the 18" wheels. Plus the P235/40 tires mean its much more likely you'll damage a wheel driving in the winter. I live in the DC area and for some reason I'm always driving over more stuff in the winter than in the summer.

jasonyng

First Question: My local dealer tried to tell me the red A4 he has coming in has some sort of launch control. Anyone every heard about this? Is he mistaken? Feeding me bull? What’s the deal?

Second Question: Are there any other good forums for the GTO? You guys here are great and very helpful just looking for as much information as possible.

Thanks,
Jason

hammen2

Launch control? Maybe he means launch mode... put the car into "D" and it preloads the suspension, lowering it slightly. Gets the adrenaline flowing (like an animal poised to spring), that much I can tell you!

As far as other forums go, Edmunds would frown if I posted direct links. They are out there, though... Google is your friend. Search on LS1/LS2 and GTO, et. al.

--Robert

jasonyng

Thanks Robert. I think maybe he is confused on something or trying to give me the run around like allot of salesmen that will tell an uninformed customer anything to make a sale.

He implied that it was almost like a line lock or tranny break on a drag car. I was very skeptical at the time.

I will take a look around Google and c what I can find for other forums.

Thanks
Jason

05midblue

I've spent the last several years in northern VT where the snow piles high and fishing is best when you can walk on water, anyway check out Nokian tires. Their Hakkepulita (SP?) tires are second to none. I opted for studs which turned my old Grand Prix into a plow truck. Just watch that Aluminum block in the high drifts. You set yourself up for all sorts of nasty thermal gradients chugging through a big pile of snow. I've known of a couple people who cracked steel blocks overheating in deep snow drifts.

jasonyng

Doesn’t the torque management mainly limit torque when shifting? SO it wouldnt actually improve launch, it would hinder it correct? Anyone else have specifics on how the software works?

Thanks allot again you guys are great,
Jason

elias

in my experience with f-body cars you've got to limit the torque somehow for a good launch. an automatic/4L60 slushbox could do this naturally due to the slush. or if a 6-speed, you had to work the clutch just right so as not to over-burn the tires. and in both cases you had to feather the throttle to hook up the tires.

in my brief experience at a 1/4 mile track with a 94 Z28, i got a couple of great launches... i was running 87 octane and it was warm - i think the low octane caused the timing to be automatically retarded, reducing torque, making for great launches!

ok, so those are my theories about torque & launches. my data is slim - i'm no john force!

gnxdanman

The Automatic tranny GTO is the same 0-60 and 1/4 mile or slightly faster then the 6spd manual GTO according to GM's numbers. Both have the same 3.46 gearing.

mparis1

he is right again....the forum is great ..you learn all about the GTO...GREAT TIPS/ STORIES/ MEETINGS...only trouble is info. overload....meet new friends in you r area........GET HOOKED....SPEND HOURS ON THERE.....BEST TO DO AT WORK.......then drive home your GTO with new knowledge ........................i really luv this car...drive in "d" in new york city to get the best mileage{oxymoron}....or if naughty and see a MUSTANG...drive in 2nd....car has tremendous torque/ pulls up the rpms like a freight train.....

mitsurob

I've been considering the GTO and had a few questions for you experienced GTO owners.
1) what has been your observed mileage in both city and highway? (the GTO's on dealer lots that I have test driven all say 11-12 mpg on the trip computer).

2) Does the DIC (driver info computer) include an outside temp gauge or compass? I have these in my current car and would hate to give them up.

3) If anyone has had a sunroof installed, just wondering how the installation looked and if any rattles or leaks have been experienced later on.?

4) Can't decide on the dark blue or the cyclone gray???

Thanks for the info.

oldbob

1. avg mpg between 15 and 19.
2. neither
4. I have cy grey. I love it.

bigdaddycoats

Over 7000 miles I have averaged around 12mpg. All city driving. I drive it pretty hard and in no way expected it to get very good mileage.

jontyrees

I've been getting 17-18mpg in normal around town mix of stop'n'go, trips to the store, 20mile each way commute on sometimes empty highway. Last Friday I drove Austin-San Antonio and back and got 23.5mpg on the mostly freeway trip, (75-80 on most of the trip). Mine's an '04 6sp.

hammen2

1) On my '04 A4, my worst tank was around 17 mpg. Best was the 21.5 mpg I averaged on my trip to St. Louis for the GTOAA Nationals (74 mph average speed, woo-hoo!). I am typically between 19 and 21 mpg. That is with the A/C on. I'm pretty happy - my Aurora gets maybe 24 mpg, so there isn't a terrible difference between the cars (unlike my wife's 16-17 mpg Envoy :-(.
2) Nope. I miss the outside temp display and the auto-dim mirror. Considering getting a Gentex mirror for $219:
http://www.simplycheap.com/gent50-genk30.html
There's power to be had from the visor lights. You do need to run a wire through the firewall for the temperature sensor (I'll run that down by the radiator).
3) This is dependent on the installer. The Webasto is the preferred roof - I understand there's a 6+ hour water/leak test the installer has to do. Those I've heard who have the roof say it's great, no rattles.
4) Depends on your color choice. I am not a huge grey fan - I know it tends not to show dirt, but, to my eyes, it doesn't "pop" when it's clean, either. If I had to choose between the two I'd pick the blue. It's a pretty hard color to find these days, and it will be gone for '06 (replaced by a blood red color). Yellow is gone for '06, replaced by orange, so...

Hope this helps,

--Robert

05midblue

I went to wally world today to get those head unit removal tools that Ford's usually use. I figured I'd rebend them for the wider gto holes. This didn't work so well. Anyway, I'd like to install a line driver so I can wire in my old amp and some 12's but don't want to blemish the receiver getting it out. Any tips? Also, the subs have got to go, they drive me nuts. Are they behind the fuel tank? What happens with the "security" feature on the radio if I disconnect the power? The manual says something about a code card, however I don't believe I have one. Just a little code tag for a spare key fob. :confuse:

Robert,

You are well appreciated on this forum. Your expertise has come in handy several times now. Thanks

hammen2

I replaced the 4 primary speakers and the two subwoofers on the rear shelf. The difference in sound quality is amazing. The stock speakers are "made in Korea" absolute paper junk. The Blaupunkt is not half bad once you put in some quality speakers.

The doors and the rear panel speakers are 6.5". I bought some Kenwood Excelon speakers on closeout from Crutchfield - were $60/pr. and came with the wiring harness adapters (I know they're out of that model). Also got the radio removal tool from Crutchfield at the time, rather than use the Allen wrench approach (though you can probably get these tools at your local Best Buy/Circuit City). I bought some 6.5" Goldwood GW-406D drivers from parts-express.com for the low low price of $9.72 ea. - they sound amazing.

If you drop me an email I can link you to the complete door and rear panel disassembly instructions (lots of screws, not too bad, just be careful of your lock buttons - stripped one of mine, just got the part today after a month and a half). To get at the rear panels and the subwoofers, you don't go through the trunk, you have to remove the rear seats and trim panels all the way from the doors back. It is a bit of a pain - did mine over 2 nights, 2-3 hours a night (left the car out, put the seats in the garage - hey it was easy to put the Zaino leather cleaner on them when they were out of the car :-). I wished I'd had some sound-deadening mat material (i.e. dynomat) - without the rear seats there was tons of road noise/it's amazing how little sound insulation there is once you remove this stuff.

I haven't yet pulled my head unit to complete my XM install (have the cable up to the passenger-side floor - will work on it sometime this week), but there is a security card/radio code. You should call Pontiac customer service - it will take forever to get this security card - but at least get the ball rolling. If somehow your code gets reset, your dealer will have to get this info. Note that my battery was disconnected for 2 1/2 months while my car sat in storage, and it didn't ask for any code when I brought it out, so I don't know if just pulling it will cause it to need resetting. BTW, you should have 2 keyfobs, each with 2 keys on them (one a glovebox lock - I took mine off - useless).

Hope this helps,

--Robert
happy to help out

hammen2

Forgot a couple of things.

To make the stereo sound marginally better now, turn off the EQ and the speed-compensated volume functions. All of the EQ settings sound like junk to me. With the stereo off, press On and 4 for a couple of seconds to turn off the EQ.

Set the bass to -2 and the treble to -1. Don't get the volume over 40-45 or the distortion will really annoy you.

Pop the trunk. On the left-hand side, behind the carpet, is the subwoofer amp, mounted to the side of the car. I have big hands but was able to reach my hand in there and turn the amp up - not all of the way, but close. Sounds much better, but the only way to really improve the system is to replace the speakers - can't say enough just how junky they are.

--Robert

gottabgto

Got about 3,500 now on my auto 05 and am averaging about 18 mpg.
That is a mix of city & highway - do both - every day.

kevm14

without the rear seats there was tons of road noise/it's amazing how little sound insulation there is once you remove this stuff.

Sheesh. The GTO is that heavy AND there is hardly any sound insulation?? Where does the weight come from? Must be just in the body...lack of aluminum or something.

lovegto

Bought an 05 automatic in June. Average between 17 and 18 miles to gallon on first 2,000 miles. Car replaced a 2000 Cougar with 6 cylinder engine, which averaged 23 miles to gallon on similar driving. Also own a 2003 Aurora with 8 cylinder northstar and it averages only 18 miles to gallon. GTO is very competitive mileage wise on highway but sucks gas like no tomorrow in stop and go or idle situations. Sometimes think it is cheaper to drive extra twenty miles than to be stuck in traffic.

elkiii

I thought the dealer was supposed to give you the card with the security code for the radio. At least mine did. Or are you talking about something like the security cards used on satellite receivers?

hammen2

Nope, they are supposed to give the security card. And the second keyfob, with 2 keys on each. And an audio CD/CD-ROM in the CD changer. And the "Getting to Know Your GTO" book. And lower your tire pressure from 55-60 psi. And, remove the shipping spring spacers.

If you got all of this/your dealer did all of this, you have a good dealer. I'd say that 80+% of dealers did not pay attention to these details/follow the PDI instructions...

--Robert

elkiii

Yup, mine did all that. Loaded the CD into the CD changer and actually did a getting to know the car drive (with me driving although I think he really really wanted to drive the car).

05midblue

I did get a tag 1/2" by 1" with a code on it. The dealer told me that I would need it if I had to replace a key. Is it the same card for the stereo? I'm not quite ready to yank the receiver and find out.

coreseller

Howdy guys. I have an '04 6 speed, been thinking about getting the B & M aftermarket shifter. I have a Cobra (up for sale on ebay, the GTO took the thrill out of her) that I did put an aftermarket shifter in and the difference was unbelievable. Has anyone done this? Was it worth it, really (Noone likes to admit less than spectacular results) ? Thanks guys....Mark.

PS I did go through the aggrevation and expense of replacing the front and rear panel speakers with the Kenwood Excelons, kind of disappointed in the results. Maybe I need to replace the deck speakers also or change settings per Hammen's instructions.

hammen2

I would skip the B&M - wayyyy too many problems (broken shifters, leaking trannies, many many dissatisfied customers) and get a GMMotorsport RipShift. You should be able to find them by Googling, or look for someone like LS1Speed who buys these in bulk. The RipShift is a bit more expensive but it's better engineered and far fewer problems.

Disclaimer: I have an A4 so I can't speak from personal experience, but this is the consensus of some of my GTO buddies.

--Robert

hammen2

did get a tag 1/2" by 1" with a code on it. The dealer told me that I would need it if I had to replace a key. Is it the same card for the stereo?

The security card is a credit-card sized piece of paper with black text on a white background, all typeset, not hand-printed or typewritten. I don't have mine handy, but will look tomorrow (reminds me to take the card into work and make a few copies of it - comes in handy in case you lose the card - I kept one with my title on my first car).

--Robert

05midblue

Well after thoroughly going through all the paperwork and junk that comes with a new vehicle, I realized that the security card in question was tucked away in the top plastic sleeve of my owner's manual booklet. I'm sorry I wasted your time with this post, but appreciate everyone's efforts to clear up my stupidity.

The stereo mods worked pretty well all by themselves (see Robert's prior posting), and I consider myself to be a little picky when it comes to audio. I do however have a full set of not-too-cheep coaxial and mid bass drivers on the way.

Does anyone have a wire diagram or schematic for the socket on the factory amp. I could spend a while and test for continuity but would rather forgo that if someone already has it.
Thanks, Mark

gtogm

Almost any car that you take the backseat out of will have more roadnoise. Sound insulation isn't that heavy.

sputterguy

I had a friend try to post some pictures here for me. Nothing he tried worked so I was wondering if anyone knows how to do it or is there a trick to it?

hammen2

Need to have them hosted somewhere... suggested site is PhotoBucket.

Once you have the URL (i.e. http followed by www.hammen.net/newgto/images/IMG_6598.jpg ) you can then type

less than sign (no space) img src="URL goes here" width=500 (no space) greater than sign

Like so:



The width command scales your image down so it doesn't run off the right-hand side of the screen/make people have to scroll.

Hope this helps,

--Robert

mparis1

AUGUST 2005 ISSUE OF MOTOR TREND......rear drive camaro dead/buickdead,......."ony rear drive program going forth is the next-gen GTO FOR 2008".....SIGMA PLATFORM IS TOO EXPENSIVE ...for new cars....what is going on> thought everybody said the 2006 GTO is the last one????

:mad: every magazine is talking about......"SHELBY MUSTANGS/ DODGE CHARGER R/T SRT8" ....muscle cars of the future....................GM SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF ITSELF..........beaten by ford and chyrsler motors......no camaros/gtos.....just dodges and mustangs..... :mad:

gtogm

Being a GM fan, I have to agree with you on the rear drive issue. The Caddy rear drivers and Corvette will continue. But nothing cheaper at this point. Except some SUV/Pickups. That is pretty sad from GM. Lutz needs to fix that. Time will tell.

There will be a 2007 Replacement GTO - Holden- for Austrailia, Saudi Arabia, etc on a new Sigma type platform. Why can't they bring that to the USA?

Ford and Chyrsler have their own problems as well. None of the big 3 are perfect.