Pontiac GTO

hammen2

Are you saying the assembly plant in Australia is only CAPABLE of making 12k per year for the U.S. market? Bull. They were certainly CAPABLE of making 18k for 2004. Something tells me if the car was a smash hit with waiting lists at dealers, GM would find a way for that factory to make more than 12k per year.

You will remember that the GTO is built in Australia because GM did not have the platform or an assembly line to build a large RWD coupe. Holden had to add a third shift to increase production. The goal was to produce 18k cars for MY 2004. They only made 16k, because that was all they could do in nearly 14 months of 2004 GTO production. The goal for 10 months of 2005 production was 12k cars. A year from now the GTO production line will likely be gone, so I have no idea how many they plan to make for the 2006 model year. Note also that they stopped building 2005's in early July, because they did not want to repeat the mistake of last year where new 2004's were still arriving at dealerships in December (will be September this year, most likely).

It is also important to note that the GTO does not ride the same exact production line that the Commodore, Ute, Adventra, et. al. do. At some point in the production process, it's pulled off the main line, where it basically becomes a custom manufacturing project. This was fine when they were making 4k Monaros a year, but when they are trying to make 20+k Monaros, GTO's, Lumina SS (yes, this car is sold as a Chevy in the Middle East), Vauxhall Monaros for the UK, and then shells for the HSV Coupe4, GTO, and GTS, well, this is a problem.

The original plan was that the next-gen (Zeta) cars would be built either in the US (Detroit-Hamtramck) or Canada (Oshawa 2) assembly plants. In an effort to streamline their assembly, Holden was to remove the Monaro/GTO custom assembly line from their plant once they started building Zeta cars. Since Zeta is dead for NA assembly, they are clearly scrambling to come up with plan B. I believe the current plan is to move some of Holden's export assembly (Middle East? China?) to one of the former Daewoo, now GMDAT facilities in Korea, thus freeing up production capacity in Elizabeth. I am also assuming that the Zeta assembly line will implement flexible manufacturing, meaning they should be able to produce Commodores, Monaros, and GTO's on the same line, but I don't know this for sure.

Regardless, they will have increased production capacity in Australia in a couple of years. I am also assuming that GM will draw a hard line with the UAW and not allow them to restrict the import above 18k vehicles - since the GM product plans I'm aware of have the RWD Commodore-based Grand Prix replacement (confusingly known as the "GTO Sedan" in GM product planning literature), will also likely be built in Australia alongside the GTO.

Bottom line is, with the current manufacturing abilities at Elizabeth, they can't find ways to make more than maybe 14k cars for U.S. export in a calendar year. They are going to fix this problem, but it will take a couple of years. I think they'll have increased capacity for the '08 or '09 model, whatever it turns out to be. If those sell, they will probably have additional production capacity, maybe at Oshawa-2 (Oshawa is supposed to get flex manufacturing abilities, and, without the Grand Prix and LaCrosse assembly, that line won't have any product assigned to it, unless it gets some Epsilon-2 (Malibu, G6, Aura, LaCrosse replacement) product assigned to it.

The fact is that the initial sales target for '04 was 18k units. Initial sales were slower than hoped by GM so to avoid have another large batch of cars languish on the lots for '05, GM decided internally that the number of units imported for '05 would only be 12k units. This was a DECISION made by GM.

Did GM state this in a press release, or is this the "conventional wisdom"/just some analyst's guess as to why they only imported 12k? If you look at the production rate of '04 models (16k produced per month, divided by 14 months) you end up with 1,142 per month. Multiply that by 10 months of production for '05 and you end up with 11,420 cars - close to the 12k they were trying to build for '05. Taking this out further, if they start '06 production next week, and run through next June, that would be 12,500 cars. Of course, they are building the special CV8-Z Monaro only through the end of this year - don't know if this means they can make more GTO's, or if production ability will be restricted by the Zeta assembly line changeover.

Not making excuses for GM - just relating some of the facts and issues that I'm aware of. Some of this information is "forward-looking" and subject to change (after all, Zeta NA assembly got whacked)...

--Robert

hammen2

How many miles on your car?
Have you checked the tire pressure? Seriously. The cars ship from Australia with 60 lbs psi and the dealers are "supposed to" reduce this to 35 psi, but 90+% of them don't bother to read the PDI. I drove my first car like this for a couple of weeks and it definitely hosed my rear suspension (bent control arms) - one of the reasons I am on car #2.

I've heard of two different causes of clunking noise on the GTO. The first relates to the driveline contacting the body - this was prevalent on early-build '04's, and a TSB was issued. This shouldn't apply to '05's.

The second is the exhaust system not hanging right/banging against the body. This is definitely a possibility. Might want to see if you can get it up on a lift.

When my suspension was messed up, I pulled everything out of the trunk (including the jack, spare tire and its cover) and my banging went down substantially. Might want to make sure this isn't your issue.

Hope this helps,

--Robert

hammen2

What brand of remote start do you have on your car? midblue, what about your brand? The only ones I've seen or heard of require the second key to be installed somewhere in the car, to keep the immobilizer happy...

hammen2

It's kind of hard to sell a car that you don't promote or advertise.

I think Pontiac got kind of gunshy after the negative reaction to the '04's styling. I understand they are pretty much focusing their advertising on the Speed Channel and on enthusiast publications. With only 12k per year it's hard to justify much advertising, especially TV (though I thought the Pontiac ad with the garage showing the Grand Prix, Bonneville (RIP), and GTO powersliding in, was great. They really need to do "brand/image" advertising - see tons of G6 ads, and now employee pricing, but nothing about what the Pontiac brand is about. I suspect the torch will pass from the GTO to the Solstice for halo/show car, at least until the GTO returns...

--Robert

rorr

I appreciate the measured response, and that certainly explains better how the 18k target for '04 'became' only 12k units for '05. It appears from your post that they are producing essentially the same number of units per month now as they did when they began on the '04 models.

Question - what would GM have done if the GTO would have been a huge hit in '04? I have a hard time believing that they would have been simply unable to increase production for export beyond a (relatively) piddling 1150-1250 units/month.

The numbers you've presented for the Elizabeth plant reflect production for export. What % of that plant would you say is devoted to production of Australian market cars vs. export? Would it be unreasonable for GM to change that % if the U.S. demand was there?

midwesttrader

I totally agree that people tend to post only problems, but this is too many for a car of this price and class:

Paint - thin/contamination/orange peel
Exterior panels & trim - alignment/wavy/mismatched/falling off
Windshield/windows - water leaks
LS2 - excessive oil consumption
Reduced power - CEL/mapping/heat soaking
Throttle position sensor(s)
Clutch & differential failures
Electronics - steering wheel and radio controls

elkiii

I think that part of the problem is that because of the low numbers and the way they are shipped the cars move in a cycle on a dealers lot. A dealer will have 4 or 5 on the lot, then they have none for two months, then four or five again. One post mentioned that he see's a lot on dealer lots. I wonder if this is in the last few weeks or if its been constant.

Around where I live this is basically whats been happening. There were NO '05's available for most of may and june, then a bunch showed up in july and are currently on dealer lots.

Also, if you are checking the the GM availability list on the GM web page, dealers have told me it is notoriously unreliable.

As to not being advertised. Wasn't there what purported to be a 2 hr. TV movie back in '04 that was an advertisement for the GTO? I don't recall the actors (and I'm sure the actors don't recall either) but I do recall seeing ads for the movie.

sensai

And do you think those problems (half of which I have never heard of and I am a member of the biggest GTO board) are common? Hint, they are not. I can visit any specific car thread here on Edmunds and produce a list like that.

gxpgtodanman

"Look at it from a historical perspective; what were the sales numbers for the first year (or two) of the original GTO?"

The 1964 GTO sold about 32,000, which was the ORIGINAL GTO
The 1965 GTO sold about 75,000 or TWICE as many in it's 2nd yr.
The 1966 GTO sold about 95,000, It's BEST year ever. After 1966 sales slowly dropped.

The 1970 GTO sold about 41,000 which was the LAST BIG sales year for it.

The 1971 GTO only sold 11,000
The 1972 GTO only sold 6,000
The 1973 GTO only sold 5,000, lowest production year
The 1974 GTO only sold 7,000, LAST YEAR. It did have a 200hp V8 std. Mustang max was 110hp 6.

gxpgtodanman

Never had any of those above mentioned problems with my 2005 GTO at all, still rides/drives like the day I drove it off the showroom floor. Paint is perfect.

Look at all the problems posted on the Mustang boards. Just people posting problems. They are the exception rather then the rule. My friends 2005 Mustang has been perfect just like my 2005 GTO.

gxpgtodanman

"What brand of remote start do you have on your car? midblue, what about your brand?"

I have Car-Pro which is by Autopage, Model CPX-RS1 as my remote start in my 2005 GTO. I had the dealer install it so they are responsible for it. I was given BOTH of my ignition key/fobs and both work. Not sure how they bipassed the security. I heard one of the keys had to go in too. So far 4+ months later and it works fine, no problems.

midwesttrader

I didn't say they were common. I will say that any of them are objectionable to me on a low production car that's $30K. Especially the fit and finish issues. You asked for specifics and I provided them. You responded with a general denial. That's fine. I know from your posts here and elsewhere that you are a strong supporter of the car. That's fine too. It's a good car just not a great one, again IMO.

I'll ask again. How many of those 7772 sales this year have been '04s? Anyone?

sensai

I still cannot figure out where you are going. The GTO is regarded as having the best fit and finish of any GM car, and on par with European brands. I can produce a bigger list of problems for 80k+ BMWs and Mercedes, does not mean they are bad cars or all of them are troublesome, it just shows you will never get a perfect car off the lot. Anyways until someone can show me another 400hp car with above average build quality for 30k, the GTO will stay classified as a great car in my book.

kevm14

Wasn't there what purported to be a 2 hr. TV movie back in '04 that was an advertisement for the GTO? I don't recall the actors (and I'm sure the actors don't recall either) but I do recall seeing ads for the movie.

I think "Dennis Hopper" or something. But as a 24 year old, I have no idea who he is. And I don't really care!

gxpgtodanman

Also the GTO is regarded as having the best seats and interior quality of any GM car on par With Europe. All cars have their occassional problems. Even Honda has had cars bought back by the Lemon law too.

Anyway I agree 100% with your asessment.

lovegto

An additional reason for the sales differences is not just supply but also how the dealers handle the supply. As I shopped around during April and May this year. Some dealers did not have the car in stock but were willing to obtain the GTO for a price less than other dealers who had two or three in stock. In May one dealer would sell me the car only at MSRP less the rebate but another would sell me the same car at one dollar over invoice less the rebate. It is my opinion that dealers either see the GTO as a commodity to move as fast as possible like any other car on their lot or else they see it as the potential source for big dollar sale. Normally you would expect the dealers in the same geographic market to have approximately the same sales parameters in pricing to be competitive (adam smith economics) but due to the limited supply of the GTOs this does not apply. This is probably why so many 2004's were left unsold at year end as dealers treated their limited supply of GTO's as the ultimate profit center, and started by asking for several thousand dollars over MSRP.
One additional note, the dealers who were selling at MSRP in May still had the same GTOs for sale in July after the employee pricing and the sales boost. Could it be these dealers have other ways of keeping the price high even with GM incentives.

elias

hi folks. i bought my GTO at the end of June and put about 1000 miles on it before driving cross-country in another car (volksy TDI). gray. 6-speed. 17" wheels.

seems like the CAGS is programmed differently than i was used to from my M6 Z28s. or maybe i'm just so used to short-shifting into 2nd that CAGS never kicks in. i've actually tried to make CAGS happen, but have only succeeded once.

the fit & finish seem awesome to me. and my standards aren't low. my backseat passengers (kids) greatly prefer the back seat to the Z28 back seats. the rear window helps too! are there any cup holders hiding back there? we can't find any. not that i'd let them have anything but water. meanwhile i do drink coffee in the car and told my wife that i always end up spilling some on myself or the car. see below...

problems:
- AM radio reception failed while i was listening to it
(this is a significant problem during baseball season - go RED SOX).
- MPH indicator too bright on the dash.
- i bought it 6PM on a friday for employee price minus gm card discount,
and someone rearended it 9AM the next monday morning, before i had
even told my insurance company about it! $650 is the estimate, for a new
rear bumper cover . nobody was hurt. my #1 son was in the back seat.
afterwards i told him, "i knew i was
going to spill coffee but i didn't know it would be like this!"

so it's in the shop now for the above 3 things.

in "sneakin into the movies" news, i wandered into the movie _stealth_ over the weekend and i'm 90% sure that a black 2005 GTO makes a cameo/gratuitous appearance in the movie, and takes a few semiautomatic rounds before zooming away in an hail of gunfire.

today i got a call from pontiac survey people asking about the car. i told them i wished mine didn't have the hood scoops, that i wished there weren't 14 "GTO" tags/badges all over the car, that it didn't say GTO embossed into the rear bumper, that i have never driven a car that attacts so much attention - and that the car is IN NO WAY a sleeper. i had considered buying a C6 but went for GTO instead both due to the back seat and also because i *thought* the GTO would be a sleeper.

i figure if pontiac has half the people saying "it's too flashy", and the other half saying "it's too much of a sleeper", that means that they got the styling just right. but maybe i'm the only one saying it's too flashy. i can't comment enough about how much attention the car gets - in city traffic - in parking lots - on the highway - i've never experienced anything like it. people literally shout at me as i drive by (good things). even the mustang guys are massively interested. the only downside is the number of "punks" who try to play with me, cutting me off, blocking my lane changes, racing wildly to try to show off. i'll probably take it to the 1/4 mile track in Epping NH , after the warranty is expired that is, ahem ahem.

when i showed my dad the car ,he said "the first thing you should do is get rid of this fruity wing on the back". heh heh. i told him i'd need that wing to keep the car on the ground if i ever decided to do 140 or so. maybe it's good thing i didn't drive the car x-country on I-80, because there were *plenty* of opportunities there for me to do some serious high-speed bursts. i doubt i could have resisted doing well above 120. heck, i had the TDI volksy up to 110 a couple times, and was cruising at 90 or 100 for hours on end. also i set a new 1-day driving record for myself, chicago to rock springs wyoming, all driven during daylight - about 1217 miles. the volksy got about 32 mpg at 90 to 100 mph. i wonder how the GTO would do running at those speeds all day long - and i do hope to find out in 2006 or 2007! probably it wouldn't do all that much worse than 30 mpg!

the car ROCKS.

cannonball run, anyone?

05midblue

It's one I've never heard of before so I'm a little skeptical, Air Wolf. It was the only one that I could find that was 2 way and had the sequence for manual tranny. I'm 'pig-tailing' all of the connections so that if it is garbage, I can just plug in another one. The alarm should be about ready to drop in in a couple more days (with my yankee azz in this southern heat, I'm limited to about two hours of working on it per day). Then on to the sound system. After all that tantrum regarding the tach wire and I've decided to use the "Volt Sensing" option which just measures the alternator output ( probably a bit inferior to tach sense, but I didn't want to break the seal on my PCM afterall). Anyway, there are some options out there for remote start without using a spare key. I'm just not quite sure if the ones I'm finding are compatible with the 04/05 or not. Take it easy,

Mark

05midblue

The only problems I have with mine after 1300 miles are the ones I create. Blown fuses, funly lock sequences, and oh yea... keeping the whistles and compliments I get on the car from going to my head. If somebody doesn't want to cough up the bucks and buy this sweet car... GOOD! Buy a schmuckstang. There are 4 on my block. I've got the only GTO in town and I wouldn't mind keeping it that way.

gxpgtodanman

There are about 15 Mustangs in my Neighborhood, mostly the V6 model and I have the ONLY GTO, so far. Even the local Hertz Rental Car lot by me has 2 to 3 Stangs at any given time. To me the extra $$ for GTO was well worth it over Mustang. To each their own.

blckthree

i wonder how the GTO would do running at those speeds all day long - and i do hope to find out in 2006 or 2007! probably it wouldn't do all that much worse than 30 mpg!

Good luck on that 30mpg at 90-100mph. You would be lucky to get much over 20mpg at that speed.

Mike

exalteddragon1

"Rear drive is back at GM--and not just at Cadillac. GM's new rear-drive Zeta platform will make its debut in Australia in April 2006 with the launch of the all-new Holden Commodore sedan and Monaro coupe. But the versatile Zeta--which will be built in long-wheelbase form for Holden's upscale Statesman and also with all-wheel drive for its crossover and pickup models--also is scheduled to spawn a bunch of American GM cars besides the new GTO. They include:

• Pontiac G8: A rear-drive sport sedan designed to replace the front-drive Grand Prix and the recently discontinued Bonneville.
• Chevrolet Chevelle: A midsize Chevrolet coupe tipped to revive this classic nameplate
• Buick Velite: A halo car based on the 2004 New York show convertible concept; originally meant to be a Chrysler 300-fighting sedan appearing in 2007.

In addition, GM is said to be working on a smaller rear-drive platform that fits between Kappa and Zeta. The genesis behind this new platform is a concept car, called the Torana TT36, designed and developed in Australia by Holden. Developed under the codename XP54, scale clay models of the car were shown to GM product czar Bob Lutz, design chief Ed Wellburn, and North American engineering VP Jim Queen in February 2004.

Holden boss Denny Mooney pushed the idea of what Holden sources call a "unique lower dominant structure" (i.e., platform) designed to "expand the GM parts bin." Known by some sources as Beta, this platform is now believed to be a live program that could be used for the following:

• Holden Torana: A smaller rear-drive car designed to fit below the GTO-size Commodore sedan. The TT36 concept was a five-door hatch powered by a 375-horse twin-turbo version of the new high-feature 3.6-liter V-6.
• Chevy Camaro: One of the most iconic names in the Chevrolet pantheon. The smaller Beta platform would distance the Camaro from the GTO and actually take the nameplate back to its ponycar roots. GM promised the Canadian Auto Workers it wouldn't build a new Camaro unless it was in a Canadian factory, so it's either a Great White North plant or a new name.
• Pontiac G4: A little brother for the G8, though where this might fit against the G6 is unclear. So how about ditching the meaningless numbers and call the G8 the Le Mans and the G4 the Tempest and leave the G6 for the ladies?"

gxpgtodanman

That would be nice. The 2 door version of the new Rear-drive Zeta that will replace the Holden Monaro 2 door may not be ready until 2007 or 2008

mitsurob

I took delivery of my 05 GTO in early July. So far so good. I think the overall design and look is great and does not look like a "sleeper" like others have mentioned. The hood scoops and rear exhaust pipes are a big improvement over the 04. I do have one inquiry that maybe others might comment on. When removing the ignition key, it seems a little hard to pull out. Once out, and then if you re-insert it, the key moves in and out easily. Just wondering if this is normal? Other than that, the car has been great. No rattles, real solid suspension and a fun ride.! Just wish I had that sunroof!

elkiii

Interesting data. These numbers aren't really out of line with the current production/sales numbers. One thing to remember is that back prior 1964 if you wanted a big engine you had to buy a big car, or do it yourself.

In the early days there wasn't much competition for the GTO so the sales number were higher. As more manufacturers copied the GTO method (big engine in a lighter, for the times, body) sales numbers would have dropped.

There was never a huge market for muscle cars. Thats what made them special. True, the Mustangs and Camaro/Firebird sold a fair number of cars. But for the most part these were low-end 6 cylinder and small (mostly 2-barrel) V8s, not the monster 396/428/429 versions or the Boss 302 or chevy 302 versions.

Today is much the same for the Mustang. The bulk of the sales are V6 with the GT counting for much smaller numbers.

Today there are any number of performance cars of many different stripes competing with the GTO. I'd guess the overall numbers of different models is larger than what was available in the late 60s. Also I think the sales numbers are for cars like the WRX STi, BMW M3, and yes the Mustang GT (NOT the v6) are comparable If Pontiac can sell 11,000 to 12,000 per year they're doing really well with such a car.

gxpgtodanman

I hvae the same problem with the ignition key being slightly hard to pull, otherwise perfect. Perfect too. Webasto does a sunroof for the GTO for $1200, not bad. I have heard g ood things about them.

hammen2

The info in your post is all old.

There is no/will be no Beta. Buick is NOT getting a RWD coupe (sedan maintains a possibility) - they are getting a FWD Epsilon. Large Chevy RWD coupe? Maybe not. Rumor is a cheaper Sigma (no IRS) will become a Camaro-type car/Mustang competitor:
http://autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=102918

The GTO (GMX282) and G8 (Grand Prix replacement, GMX284) are a go, though. A really bad Photoshop of an ugly-looking (IMHO) vehicle can be seen at:
http://autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=102907

The Torana actually misled people - they thought it was a potential new car from Holden, when in fact it was a styling prototype for the upcoming, much larger Commodore. We should see pics sometime in September (Sydney Auto Show), which may give hints to the next-gen GTO and G8/Grand Prix.

--Robert

elkiii

I don't know. Maybe the real one will look better. This looks like they want to go after the "look at me" Mustang crowd. That could be a mistake. Also noticed the tidbit at the end of the article. If they go ahead with the rear-hinged doors I wonder how that'll affect structural rigidity. I know Saturn and Mazda use these but in the case of the RX8, the entire platform was designed with the rear hinged doors in mind.

elias

dealer reported that the TSB for the too-bright-mph-indicator only applies to 04s and they can't change the brightness of my 05's MPH indicator on the dash. harumph.
for the AM radio problem they had to order an antenna modulator and could not predict how long it would take.
body shop appt is in another couples weeks.
so i'm picking up the car and in the meantime maybe will only drive it if the red sox aren't playing. i'll miss the morning sports-radio-rants from 850AM/dennis-and-connolly though. oh well, the GTO exhaust note will make up for that, i suppose.
as for no 30 mpg at 90 to 100 mph, ok, i agree 30 mpg would be a stretch. but with my 1989 IRAQ-Z28 i didn't have any trouble getting 28 mpg at about 90 mph on a cross-country-cruise. (i named it thusly because i drove it cross-country during the 1991 war - the ground-war started after i left, and ended before i got to california).

exalteddragon1

if you click on the pic it links you to my source. I just posted the latest data i could find. Hope the camaro will be back though, and the firebird, or just keep the GTO.

bumpy

Judging by the styling of the Torana concept's nose, this may not be too far off from the VE:

friscogto

Just picked up a black on black M6 05 with 18 inch rims. This car is a frickin' blast to drive. One of the only things I'm missing in my new ride is a second power outlet--it's be nice to use my radar detector and charge my phone at the same time. Sounds like the 06 model will have a second outlet, but I couldn't wait that long. I was reading in the owners manual that there is a dealer installed "smoker's package" that replaces the fairly useless little storage bin in front of the shifter with an ashtray and a lighter. I think it would be nice to have the extra outlet. Has anyone had this installed? How much does it cost?

I'm also thinking of having the Webasto sunroof added. Looks like a nice unit. Does anyone know if you loose the dome light when the sunroof is installed?

Thanks.

gottabgto

I'd bet you'd get about 19 MPG's.
That's the best I've seen so far and I'm pushing 5k.

I have been searching for a coffee cup that will fit correctly in the holders - so far, no luck.

gottabgto

I have that same problem with the key - hard to remove.
The only other problem I have had is the fog light indicator stays on when the fog lights are off. I need to take it in for that.
Oh - one other thing as I mentioned above - I cannot find a coffee cup that will fit the holders.
All minor things, none of which faze my love of the car.

elias

it would be cool to have another outlet in the front tray.
i gotta get me some of that.
in the meantime a radio shack splitter and/or tripler ion the obscurely placed power outlet will do.
dealer ordered antenna modulator to fix the 99% busted AM & 40% busted FM.
i suppose it's being shipped on an outrigger canoe from australia.
today i noticed there are rubber caps under the hood blocking the faux intake / vents.
did my dealer forget to remove these as part of the PDI? my confidence is not inspired thusly.
also in another confidence shattering move, a tall person at the dealership, perhaps the actual mechanic/technician/muttonhead, totally broke the drivers side seatbelt adjuster so now i have have to drive with it in tall setting instead of the preferred lowest setting. it is totally trashed, pieces floating inside and my mechanical aptidude is insufficient to determine how to lower it despite various attempts. about this seatbelt bustedosity, i was mighty steamed at first, but the car is so fun to drive that i'm beginning to enjoy continuous garrotting due to the BF Skinner behavioral response. that last joke is for Karl the gran turismo poobah of edmunds editors, and for anyone else unfortunate enough to try to pass advanced psychology classes. (i tried one in particular, and did not pass it.)

i imagine they'll send a second outrigger canoe with a bunch of new monaro parts to fix the seatbelt thing. if the mechanic who worked on my car is tall shall i open a can of verbal whupass on him? this is probably the guy who will be fixing it every time, so i am going to have shmooze him i suppose. i'm way more ticked that they didn't tell me the seatbelt thing was broken than at the fact they busted it. it was obviously prone to failure, so in a way they did a favor by exposing the essential "DOA" aspect of the car. do not attribute to malice what can be explained by negligence . ok, that's encouraging, the mechanic didn't *know* he broke the seatbelt adjuster. double sigh.

i'm beginning to get a feel for how often people shout positive messages at me when i drive this car - drove with windows open. in 10 miles of city traffic two random dudes shouted at me as i drove past, such as in opposing traffic - one shouted SICK , another shouted NICE RIDE. coincidentally the salesman referred to the car as SICK after i put a deposit on it while it was still on the outrigger from australia.

gxpgtodanman

I got the "smokers Package" installed on my 2005 GTO by the dealer. $140 total? I do NOT smoke, just for the radar detector.

05midblue

I'm constantly smoking in mine, but I'm afraid that it's going to cost a lot more than $140 for my fix. No Marlboros for me, just roasted BFGoodrich.

Those rubber plugs are supposed to be in the hood. They restrict a bit of air flow, but do direct some of it downward. The "functional" hood scoops are not hooked up to the air box, the just increase air circulation around the compartment.

**Update on the Car Alarm** I'm done, but completely unsatisfied as my hood pin is not functioning properly. I can't seem to Isolate the dome lights from the door triggers, even after an hour of splicing at the fuse box. On top of all that, the clutch can't be overridden at the switch that's mounted to it. I'm all out of patience as I've been working on it in 95 degree weather for the past two weeks. After wasting a couple hundred on the unit, I'm probably just going to take it out and let it collect dust. Without some sort of actuator mechanism for the aftermarket unit to arm and disarm the factory system, I see no pint in juggling remotes every time I want to lock the car. There are NO pontiac dealers out here willing to install a remote start (manual or auto), and the latest estimate from Woodys in FT. Worth is set around 1100$, with a unit that doesn't have a sequence that prevents it being left in gear. Very disappointed,

Mark

blackflag3

I just recently purchased a new 2005 GTO. I bought a new one in 1967 and had it for 15 years and have regretted selling it ever since. I always said if Pontiac ever
came out with another GTO I would get one This one is a honkin beast right out of the box! The power and acceleration is awesome! The Auto Trans shifts quick, crisp and flawlessly. It would blow the doors off the 67 I had stock for stock, and the 67 was no slouch...It surpasses the Ram Air 360 HP versions of the old days.

The fit and finish is excellent and the car is solid and tight and everything works
like it should....Kudos to the builders in Australia. I love the huge dual chrome
exhaust outlets and the deep tone rumble the system produces. The 200 watt stereo system will blow your ears out without distortion when cranked up.
I intend to keep this one and pass it down to my sons, as someday this one will also be a classic....The GTO is back!...In Spades!

john_in_swfla

that light on your dash is for the running lights.
it is always on.
although they are both green, the fog light and running light indicators are different, although they look similar. You can remove the running lights by taking out one of the fuses. search back about 50 pages, and it'll tell you how. hope you like the car.

John in Fort Myers, FL

elias

those rubber plugs are supposed to be there? from what i can see ,they block 100% of airflow/air-venting through the hood-vents that i call 'faux scoops'. i am really not impressed by anything relating to these hood-vent/scoops. i'll get over it!

gottabgto

John - thanks!
You are correct - it is the running light indicator.
You can turn it off by turning the dial.
The fog light indicator does look slightly different.
I had read this info when I first got the car but obviously not in great detail.
You saved me a trip to the dealer (not to mention some embarrassment ).
Thanks again.
Cathy

kentmoon

I have about 25K on my 04 GTO, and I've noticed about 5K ago that tires are wearing unevenly. If I slide hand around surface of tires, I can feel smooth bumps on each thread-same side is on each thread is higher than other side. There is no uneven wear from inside to outside. It is now making a noise in slow speed, and slight vibration while driving. I know this will get worse and I will have to replace tires soon.

This is the same problem I had experienced in my old Catera, which cost me several sets of tires. I had this problem also with VW Golf a while back. I don't believe this is an alignment problem, and someone told me that it is shock or strut problem. With my Catera, dealer wouldn't install new shocks, and charged me for a couple of new alignments, but it didn't cure the problem.

Any one experiencing the same problem?

Thanks.

gxpgtodanman

The 2005 GTO is the fastest, most powerfull GTO ever made STOCK from the factory. Remember that Ram Air 360hp was Net hp, prior to 1972. It is really like 280 to 290 hp today in the SAE rated hp.

elkiii

The display is one of those annoying things, like the MPH indicator. On the RSX I used to own the cruise control had a big bright green display right in my line of sight to the gauges when it was on. Don't know why manufacturers need to inform me of things I already know. And then to do it in such annoying ways. Sheesh.

blackflag3

You are certainly correct in your statement. The only cars that compare with this GTO in the power and accelleration dept. that one could order from the factory for every day driving were the Camaro/Nova/Chevelle SS 396 equipped with the L-78 engine option. Not to mention the 427/454 versions back in the 60's and early 70's. The Dodge/Plymouth 426 "Street" Hemi's of those days were also in this category. Ford's "Boss 429's" didn't quite measure up to the afforementioned.
There were others I haven't mentioned that were very impressive in those days
such as the 302 Z-28 Camaros that could give the big block beasts a run for their money....The new GTO is now in the company of those big block beasts that prowled the streets of the old days...That is saying volumns comparing stock for stock from the factories.

gxpgtodanman

That is annoying.

You can take the cluster off and put a piece of black electrical tape over the LED and put the cluster back on. That is a pain. I heard the dealer can make it less brighter?

prguy77

Hey guys,

This is my first post. I'm replacing my Prelude soon, and i'm leaning towards the M6 GTO. Is it possible to get just part of the Sport Appearance Package and not the rest (the front fascia only)? Also, can you still get the hood scoop delete on the '05's?

Thanks for the help!

elias

i don't accept my dealer's answer that the TSB about too-bright-mph can only be applied to the 2004s not 2005s. i think that is a cop-out and has to be wrong. in the meantime i'll put black elec tape on top of the clear plastic - best i can do - no way am i opening up the dash to get directly at the speedo face.

in exciting news,i removed the rubber plugs in the hood vents. as far as i can see the pl;ugs block 100% of airflow/air-venting. i'm going to ask the dealer about that too , maybe when i show them the seatbelt adjust that THEY BROKE while they had the car last week. i think the engine will get much dirtier with the hood airvent plugs removed. maybe i'll pop them back in when the weather gets colder! you know, sort of like how you see the diesels/busses with a piece of cardboard taped over the grille during wintertime...

elkiii

Supposedly on '04s but not 05's. Personally I'd prefer it not be on at all. Same with the DRL indicator and fog light indicator. And if I ever get to the point where I forget I have the cruse control engaged I probably shouldn't be driving.

I hadn't gotten around to setting up the options on the car and this weekend on a trip the rest indicator came on to tell me its time to rest. Heard an annoying dinging and didn't figure it out until I looked at the dash LCD. Gonna have to turn that one off.

herzdawg007

Hey guys, I just turned 16 and my dad surprised me with a Black M6. I think I'm the luckiest guy ever. This car is like a fantasy come true. Haha. Anyway I have noticed a little bit of crackling on the speakers. I turned up the sub amp and played with the eq and that made a difference, but there's still that little bit of fuzz in parts of the music. I think I'll eventually replace the front door speakers and the rear side panel speakers. Could someone please tell me how difficult this would be and how much time it would require? What brand of speakers did you install? Some detailed instructions and hints from those of you who have already replaced them would be amazing. Thank you very much.