Pontiac GTO

tayl0rd

I don't think those are really invalid questions if they don't really follow domestic cars. I'm a car guy, but I don't follow the foreign makes too closely if we can't get it here. But look at all the near iconic names GM has ruined with FWD V6:

Bonneville
Grand Prix
Monte Carlo
Impala
Malibu
Nova <-- I don't think they even had the decency to give that one a V6.
Cutlass, etc.

gottabgto

Plus - GM certainly doesn't want to risk losing potential Corvette buyers to the lower priced GTO.

gxpgtodanman

True, but the Grand Prix, Monte Carlo and Impala NOW have OPTIONAL 303 hp V8 engines, but still FWD and are the fastest versions of those names ever released.

GM had already ruined GP, Monte's and Impalas starting in the mid to late 1970's and throughout the 1980's with their underpowered 130 to 150hp V8's. The best performers, Monte SS, 442 only had 170-180hp!! Today's FWD V6's would blow their doors off in a race.

The Nova was only a 4 banger..

Olds did make a 4 cylinder 442, based on the FWD Olds Calais? Around 1990 or 1991? Which did put out around 180hp on a tuned quad 4 and hit 60 in the low 7's. That 442 smoked the 1980's V8 model.

gxpgtodanman

"Plus - GM certainly doesn't want to risk losing potential Corvette buyers to the lower priced GTO."

They never worried about losing potential Vette buyers to the lower priced V8 Camaro/Transam which had the same LS1 350hp Vette motor!! Those cars were a lot more advertised then GTO was !!

elias

i dunno about that , gottab . i say GM doesn't give a hoot about 'losing' corvette customers to GTO , nor did they car about 'losing' them to z28 & v8-firechicken buyers. i bet GM marketeers and bean counters look at it the opposite way - every happy z28/v8-bird/goat customer is going to be a slamdunk corvette customer as soon as he gets old & bald & rich enough.
or if not rich, with good enough credit to get a mortgage on a new vette.

if GM didn't import monaro/GTO i'd probably be taking delivery of a C6 right about now. if GM had stopped making Z28s 15 years earlier i probably would have owned a couple of new corvettes by now, probably a c4 & a c5.

i am missing my goat big time now after driving our tdi for a couple days. i've yet to have the opportunity to pay 2.95 for premium gas, aw! 2.78 is my record so far. the goat's in the body shop, they had to order the rear valence piece - i think it's the beehive thing below the rear bumper cover. apparently the outrigger canoes from australia move faster than i thought because they claim they'll have it monday or tuesday.

gottabgto

V8 Fire-chicken?
Good one!

'every happy z28/v8-bird/goat customer is going to be a slamdunk corvette customer as soon as he gets old & bald & rich enough.'

You're killing me here (note to self, do not try to drink coffee while reading elias posts).

And you should be grateful for $2.95.
I filled up two days ago at $3.09 - hit the $50 mark and felt like crying.

pjj14

I am considering trading in my 2004 Lexus IS 300 for a GTO. I really enjoyed the test drive, despite the mixed reviews in the car mags. In researching the car on the Internet, however, I am a little concerned about some of the paint problems people seem to be having with the car. Can anyone shed any light on this? Is or was there a real problem with the GTO's paint, or have the posts I have read simply been authored by a small number of people who have experienced problems? Any insight would be appreciated.

hammen2

There are three paint-related issues of which I am aware of:

1) In general, the paint is a little "soft". It has the tendency to chip easily - I have a rock chip on the roof above the driver's seat, for example. I haven't put my '05 hood on yet - time and $$$ issue - but I'd suggest looking at some of the protective paint films like Stongard or the 3M product. Should be under $500 to cover the lower edges of the hood and the front fascia. I wouldn't buy the dealer's paint sealant, should they offer it, but would use something like Zaino or Meguir's NXT to protect the paint (would get this on immediately).

2) Some cars have had issues with peeling paint on the front or back bumpers. This is a warranty item, and it's only been a small handful of cars (but both '04's and '05's).

3) The spoilers are not installed at the factory, but stateside. I've heard that the paint match isn't too great - my Cosmos Purple is fine but I've seen that the yellows are different.

Strongly suggest eyeballing a car before making a deal (if you can find one before the dealer PDI techs put in some free swirls for you, that would be grand). My first car had some grit in the paint, a scratch, and a really bad touch-up attempt on the rocker panel. Then again, I'm _extremely_ picky about my car, and suspect others are as well...

--Robert

gottabgto

Robert - that's interesting about the paint.
I must have missed prior discussions on that topic.
I'm finding that I'm getting lot's of little dings - seems to be from rocks, etc. hitting the hood, although I do not tailgate. It's bad enough that I was thinking about getting a bra for the car but am having trouble deciding if that would look good or not. I've not seen a GTO with one - have you?
Do you happen to know of any good resources that sell those?
Thanks

gxpgtodanman

I have owned my 2005 Impulse Blue GTO since early April and it's an OUTDOORS car, not garage kept, my paint looks as good as the day I bought it. No chips either. My spoiler matches my paint perfectly.

pjj14

What is your impression of the car so far? I test drove one a couple of days ago and was quite impressed. I'm now trying to decide whether to buy the GTO or the new C6 Corvette.

gxpgtodanman

I am 100% satisfied with my GTO, no problems, knock on wood. Same C6 400hp/drivetrain, fast, fun to drive. I can fit the family in it too. I would like a C6 Vette, but I NEED the backseat ! Also the GTO is about $15k less then C6 too. Obviously the C6 will outhandle/brake GTO.

gottabgto

Same here - I love my GTO, it is an awesome car.

blackflag3

I have never had a car that drew more attention and thumbs up praise than this
GTO. It's equally as popular with the older folks as it is with the young. The older generation remember the old days when the GTO ushered in the super car era.
It brings back fond memories to them of a day they thought they'd never see again.

Never mind the hot Chevrolets, Fords, Dodges/Plymouths that were on the scene
at the time, it's the GTO they remember and mention the most.
This has been my experience so far with this car. At least in my area.
Young and old alike are awestruck about the power this one has but not surprised,
as this is what they would expect from this legendary car.

gxpgtodanman

I agree 100% with you, my GTO attracts a lot of attention.

Maybe someone should tell KODENAME that, who posted on the GTO vs STI board messages 320 and 322 that the GTO is a "styless, near invisible, failure that only continues the trend of butt ugly Japanese inspired goofyness"

That gave me a good chuckle though, my car is anything but that. I never thought I would see another 400hp Muscle car either, too bad they waited to bring them back as gas edges towards $3 a gallon.

gxpgtodanman

Comments at a recent Pontiac/Gto car show...

Many of the vintage Pontiac folks had only seen pictures of the new GTO. I took every opportunity to start it up and let them sit in it. They would never give up their '67s (but then neither would I), but they all praised the car and couldn't believe how good it looked in person and how nice the interior was.

midwesttrader

There's no need to advertise. According to Mr. Lutz GM will easily sell every GTO they can possibly build.

midwesttrader

Sensai - you're a member of that "big" GTO forum. How about the paint and throttle issues mentioned lately? Any truth to this?

elias

thanks for the props, gottabgto. sometimes i do go the extra mile with my postings, hoping that some of my readers will experience the joy of nasal egress of their morning beverages.

re the paint, i haven't noticed any problems. it seems great, no chipping problems yet. but then again i can't correctly see what color my car is - it looks green to me. it's actually cyclone grey. many people tell me they see some blue tinge to it. to me it's just gray/green/whatever, it's all just about the same to my eyes.

re gto vs c6, that's a fun choice to make.
i picked gto for 3 reasons, one of which turned out to be invalid:
1 - rear seat, so i can shuttle kids to/from school before/after work.
2 - costs $20k less
3 - i thought the GTO would be a "sleeper" , at leastcompared to the vette.
wow was i WRONG about that. i don't think C6 vette drivers get as much attention
as 05 GTO drivers. but then again, i've never driven a vette, so i don't really know.

sensai

I have seen sporadic threads on the paint and throttle issues. These issue threads though never seem to be able to narrow down if the problems are specific to a certain range of cars or just random. I have not been keeping a close watch on the forums lately though with the wonderful virus problems of last week.

Kirstie_H

A reporter is hoping to hear from residents of Southeast Michigan who fit either of the following descriptions:
- feel as if the cost of gasoline is significantly driving up their commuting costs (no pun intended)
- have been impressed with their vehicles' gas mileage

Please respond to jfallon@edmunds.com no later than Thursday, August 25, 2005 with your daytime contact info, year/make/model of vehicle, city of residence and city of employment.

Thanks for your consideration,
Jeannine Fallon
Corporate Communications
Edmunds.com

elias

thanks for the correction & additional clues re octane boost, Kevm14... but one of the comments from the Sunoco engineer seems to agree with what i said. i wonder which two of the treatments when applied at their specified rates DID increase the octane of 87 to "90.5". 90.5 is pretty close to "91+". anyway, i tried one of the "NoS" products when my goat was delivered with 87 octane in the tank - but really don't know if it helped anything.
also, considering that our cars' ignition systems are supposedly optimized for 91 - i wonder if getting beyond 91 is really any help for a stock goat/C6/Z28/whatever. is it worth it for me to buy 93 octane in summer weather , or is 91 going to be exactly as good. (in cold weather i'll probably buy 87 octane unless i notice a huge hp/torque loss and lots of pinging like i noticed on my LT1 Z28s when i tried 87 octane in hot summer weather. also i think it made the engine run hotter...

kevm14

but one of the comments from the Sunoco engineer seems to agree with what i said. i wonder which two of the treatments when applied at their specified rates DID increase the octane of 87 to "90.5". 90.5 is pretty close to "91+".

What the snippet failed to mention is that an octane "point" equals 0.1 octane value. So 3.5 points would raise 87 to 87.35 octane. I think it's pretty worthless.

like i noticed on my LT1 Z28s when i tried 87 octane in hot summer weather. also i think it made the engine run hotter

Running too low of an octane definitely has the potential to make the engine run hotter, but this was more of an issue before the age of PCMs and knock sensors. I have an LT1 Z28 and I've been constantly running on 87 for months now. All I did was pull a little spark advance in the full load areas from mid to high rpm and the rest of the timing tables I left alone. No pinging. Even when the PCM registered knock counts, I NEVER EVER heard it.

jontyrees

Anyone know if I can get touch up paint for the black 2004 GTO at general auto part stores, (Pep Boys in my case)? I have a couple of parking lot scratches that I need to touch up.

gottabgto

I recalled that touch-up paint had been discussed recently so I did a search on it and found that Hammen2 (our resident GTO guru) said this:
Your dealership will have it in bottles and spray cans.

And Magnumforc said this:
Custom matched paint for scratches and chips is available through paintscratch.com/" target=_blank>http://www.paintscratch.com/ Their color matching and paint pens are outstanding. I had a scratch on the right door of my 05 Phantom Black GTO (put there by the eejit at the dealer, no less) that I touched up following the instructions provided by Paint Scratch. It turned out great and you would need a magnifying glass and know exactly where to look to even begin to find it. Not cheap but they guarantee the match. Plus, you will need clearcoat as well as the main color.
I use it on all our cars and they match the colors perfectly every time!.

There may be more. Here is the link to that discussion:

mparis1, "Pontiac GTO" #3022, 5 Jul 2005 11:18 am!keywords=allin%3Amsgtext%20limit%3A.ef134af%20touch-up%20paint

Hope that helps.
I hate those parking lot dings with a passion!

hammen2

Phantom Black (paint code 80U):
tube p/n 12346757
spray p/n 12346758

Here are the rest of the '04 colors - I don't have the Cyclone Grey or Midnight Blue for '05, or the Brazen Orange or the Spice Red for '06:

Barbados Blue (paint code 47U)
tube p/n 12346749
spray p/n 12346750

Cosmos Purple (paint code 72U)
tube p/n 12346755
spray p/n 12346756

Impulse Blue (paint code 24U)
tube p/n 12346743
spray p/n 12346744

Pulse Red (paint code 79U)
tube p/n 12346897
spray p/n 12346898

Quicksilver (paint code 13U)
tube p/n 12346741
spray p/n 12346742

Torrid Red (paint code 62U)
tube p/n 12346753
spray p/n 12346754

Yellow Jacket (paint code 59U)
tube p/n 12346751
spray p/n 12346752

kevm14

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/72498/

I'm gonna go with no.

tripowergto

Just a heads up for whoever was concidering removing all the GTO emblems from their car. You can NOT remove the fender GTO crests as there is large factory cut hole underneath them to provide correct alignment. I would hate to hear they damaged your paint removing an emblem that would just have to be replaced.

GOOD LUCK!!

gxpgtodanman

Yes the GTO Crests on the fenders are where the side signal marker lights go in Austrailia on the Holden Monaro.

Same thing with the Pontiac symbol on the rear trunk. There are 2 small holes under it.

elias

thanks for the warning. dealer told me the same thing... maybe i'll pay the body shop some day to remove the emblems & bondo those areas, and install a color-matched smooth hood. anyone wanna buy or trade an 04 hood for a cyclone grey 05 scoopy hood?

anyway, they still haven't finished fixing the rear bumper damage. they got the replacement part but it arrived damaged! so it looks like another week wait. i think i'm going to pick it up tomorrow and drive it for a week with half of the rear bumper insert missing. i don't really understand what part is missing - she said it was the part that has the huge embossed "GTO". yeah, i wanted to remove the emblems but this might be a case of "careful what you wish for".

hammen2

The bumper inset (with the embossed "GTO" on it) is a separate piece from the rear bumper. They have a tendency to look "wavy"/uneven - I've seen this on more than one '05.

The Monaro doesn't get the big GTO on the bumper insert - there is a cutout section for a trailer hitch (a dealer-installed option in Australia, "Not Recommend" in the GTO manual - go figure). You can order that piece, along with the side marker lamps (if you want to remove the "GTO 6.0 LITRE" badges from the front fenders) from a company like JHP (http://www.jhp.com.au)...

--Robert
who still has an unpainted '05 hood sitting in an unused office at his work :-(

tripowergto

Hey Robert, if it makes you feel any better, I had a SLP RAM AIR hood for my 02 Formula sitting for nearly two years next to my house before I finally paid to have it color matched and painted....and I recently used to be an automotive painter by trade!!

elias

thanks hammen2-inator/Robert! i've been without gto for about 8 days because of this body shop nonsense. oh well. i could have chosen not to have it repaired, so i'll take my lumps in order to get it repaired . if they don't get a new/undamaged bumper-insert part by early next week i'm just going to take the car and drive it until they do get one. .

dat2

Hi Robert, I know you have gone over this b4, but in a little more detail can you explain the gain control on the sub? I looked and didn't find it, do you need to remove some of the paneling in the trunk.

BTW I have investigated the deal pedal, and it is possible to order the Australian deal pedal, perhaps a custom shop could then retrofit it on the proper side of the US model?

Up close to 16,000 on my '04 GTO, and only real problem was with bad shimmy due to poor balance. This was resolved by a dealer that used the road force balance, just as Hammen has previously described. THANKS!

hammen2

The subwoofer amp is mounted in the trunk on the left-hand side, between the trunk liner and the inside of the fender. I found it necessary to remove one plastic retainer to pull back the liner a little to get my big paws in between the amp and the fender. If you feel around, the dial is there, IIRC between the fender wall and the amp (dial faces the outside of the car, and is up closer in the direction of the back seat - again, going from memory, it's been a few months). Turn it almost all of the way up.

I have seen some third-party/homebrew dead pedals which look pretty good. The '05 dead pedal should also be orderable but it's part of the carpet (!). I'll see if I can get some part numbers next week.

--Robert

hammen2

Replying to my own message (is that like talking to yourself?)...

I double-checked on my drive home from work (yes, I am crazy). The amp mounts vertically, and the dial you have to adjust is on the small end of the amp which faces the back seat...

--Robert

sputterguy

I'm so glad that Pontiac is protecting me from burning up my tires.

Where did you go for 250 miles? On the day my last test drive that I mentioned, I was on my way to Ft. Bragg. (California, not North Carolina for you non Californians) I wanted to check it out as a possible place to retire to. That was probably a 300 mile trip. I averaged about 20mpg for the whole trip. I usually get about 15mpg around town.

gottabgto

Hey sputter - where have you been?

I went to Sacramento and back (plus a lot of running around while in Sacto).
Fort Bragg is nice - that entire coastline is beautiful.
I especially like Sea Ranch. I do a lot of camping in Salt Point, hubsand does abalone diving. Only problem is it that is does get kinda chilly and foggy but if you don't mind that - the coast is incredible up there.
I have not taken the GTO up there - that must have been a great driving experience.

john_in_swfla

I have noticed while installing aftermarket amps on these Goats that the stock amp is mounted in two different ways. The way Robert is talking about is wha tI have seen more than not. I think just to be specific, it should be pointed out that the knob to turn up the amp (which at factory is set at 0, and can be moved to
+5/-5) is on the opposite end of the amp as the wiring harness. I have found that a setting of +3 to +4 is fine for most purposes, but as has been previously pointed out, the stock speakers are korean dae woo reject garbage.

I point out the mounting issue because the amp is mounted with two screws on a sliding mounting system. It doesn't matter which way it is mounted, just remember that the knob is on the opposite end of the wiring harness. Then go get Guns N Roses 1987 LP Appetite for Destruction, roll down the windows, redline in third gear, and realize that life is good!

Good luck all.

John in Fort Myers, FL

elias

i haven't dug my way to that subwoofer amp yet, but i don't really want the system to give more bass anyway - there's plenty for me. i did notice that the stereo seems to be optimized for very LOUD volume levels. it sounds better way loud, even with the stock speakers. as for G&R, yeah, that album works for me. welcome to the jungle!

hammen2

I didn't care for more bass or voume, just wanted less distortion (which is all I got with the stock speakers and subwoofers). Since I have a Bose Acoustimass system in my '98 Aurora (winter car), the stock speakers and subs just drove me nuts until I replaced them. Cost me about $150 and 4 hours of my time...

--Robert
who has been alternating between U2's "The Joshua Tree" and Green Day's "American Idiot" this week :-)

john_in_swfla

Ok, since Robert and I have already kind of started this topic without meaning to, lets make it official.........

What is the best cruisin' CD to listen to in your GTO?

Me: AFD by GNR.
Robert: ?

J

gottabgto

I finally bought one of these but now I'm wondering about the parrifin wax they put in them.
Anyone who uses the Zaino products also use the California duster?
I'm hesitant to get that wax on the finish...

gottabgto

That all depends on the mood but if I want to rock out, I guess I'd go for Areosmith or AC/DC - maybe some Stones - but I've kind of been on a Country kick lately. Just crusin in the GTO with anything you like is pure enjoyment - even with the stock sound system.

preformancenut

I was able to reach my hand around the back of the amp and turn the gain up without any panel removel. I did not notice much difference.

preformancenut

I have used a Cali. duster for years and love them. As far as the wax goes when you buy one it tells you to lay it on newspaper for a couple of days to soak up some of the excess wax,it does work.

It will still leave some wax streaks on your car for awhile untill you get enough dust on it and get it broke in. NEVER use it on a hot car or it will streak.

The parifin wax will not hurt your paint just take a soft polishing cloth or a micro fiber towel and wipe it off.

Steve...

preformancenut

JHP does not post there prices you have to play e-mail tag They gave me a price of $475 for the color matched volt meter and oil pressure gauge. I would love to have them for function and looks but $475 for two small gauges OUCH!

Does anyone know if this is the only company you can order this from?

05midblue

I noticed a pan molded for two gauges of your choice not that long ago but can't remember the site. They are out there though. They wanted $130 for just the pan, figure 70-100 bucks a wack for some aftermarket gauges, the hassle to wire them in... 475 doesn't sound too bad for gauges that don't stick out like a sore thumb (color matched!).

sputterguy

I was away from work for awhile which is my internet access. I'm starting to get a lot of flak for playing on the net so I picked up one of these home computing devices and can now post from home. This connection is so much slower than at work though. I'm pretty tired of this valley heat so I think I'm ready for some fog. I'd rather be up in the redwoods as opposed to right on the coast.

Ummmm. Abalone! I used to get abalone from some friends in a diving club but they moved to Colorado last year. Ever heard of the Flipper Dippers?

Yeah it was a great drive. Those twisting mountain roads really tested the handling of the GTO though.

dat2

Thanks for all the info Hammen! I have done the little mod and the results are worthwhile. THe bass is a little cleaner and a little less boomy now!

Can't wait to hear about your ideas on the deal pedal. I am getting used to the lack of, but would love to have one. It is a big deal to me since I am coming from Nissans which always have them. I did look into installing the carpeting from the 05 which includes the molded in deal pedal, and it turns out you will have to replace the entire interior carpeting for the GTO, since it is all one big molded piece. Although I didn't get a quote on it, I bet that would cost well upwards of $500.