Buying and Selling Vehicles Online (eBay, etc.)

rroyce10

... **Back to the Control Room, training new Operators** ...

Just super ... we have rookies bouncing all of these little particles all over the planet and we have Mathias asleep at the wheel ....

sniff sniff .... do I smell another Chernobyl.?



Terry :P

kyfdx

You ever hand over the title at delivery from your store? I'd say almost all of the cars that leave your lot have a temporary tag, and a promise that you will get the title to them within 30 days.

Granted, I'm not going to give a guy a check, take his car and hope he sends me a title.. But, if the car has a lien, and we go to his bank to pay it off, and notarize a bill of sale, then I have no qualms taking the car and waiting for the title.

Because.. if you have no title, and no car... then, you really have nothing.. With the bank's involvement, and my notarized bill of sale, I can fix the title problem, even if I can't find the seller.. But, if the car is gone, and the money is gone, and the seller is gone... then a title is a worthless piece of paper..

Otherwise, buying a car out-of-state with a lien, would be so problematic, that it would never happen.. It is easy to do with $3K beaters, but $20K cars with liens from Big Three Credit are a different matter.

regards,
kyfdx

stickguy

when I leave the dealer, I have a valid registration (the temp tag). Besides, most people that buy from a dealer (but not all of course) finance, so they never see the title anyway.

I don't think I would put a car out on Ebay unless I had the title in hand. Just much cleaner that way.

audia8q

let's say the seller gets the title from the lienholder....and forgets to send it to you and you can't find the guy, he wont return your calls...or perhaps doesnt feel like sending you the title unless you pay him an additional $1000....

now what do you do?

mikefm58

I can see all the potential pitfalls here. The vehicles I'm contemplating are 4WD reg. cab Dodge Dakotas, one is a 2003 with 27K miles and the other a 2004 with 7.5K miles, both still on warranty. Dodge stopped making the reg. cab in 2005 and I haven't seen any close to me within several $K of the two on ebay.

I can get the 2003 for $10300 and the 2004 for $11200, both are good prices, especially the 2004. Terry's priced a couple Dakotas for me over on real world trade in values.

My biggest concern will be making sure the bank sends ME the title and not the previous owner.

kyfdx

If I have the car, the notarized bill of sale, and I went to the lienholder and gave them a check... Then, I expect the lienholder to get me a clear title.. If they screw up and give it back to the seller, when they know he has sold the car, then they will have to fix it..

I have the car, the bill of sale, an interested third-party who can attest that I've bought the car... I think I can get my title without the further co-operation of the seller. In the unlikely event that happens..

Either way... I have the car.. Who is going to take it away from me? Even if the original seller has the title and won't contact me, I doubt he'll try to show up at my door to steal the car (probably jinxed myself, here).

Anyway, I think we've missed my original point (if I can still find it). Don't write a check for the car, without bringing it home...

regards,
kyfdx

jackflash50

I was emailing a 5 Star Jeep dealership in Atlanta on a preowned 04 Grand Cherokee Overland, we emailed back and forth for 6 days, he gave me an offer, i emailed and accepted, when we talked by phone to close the deal (at which time I gave my AmEx card to hold the jeep while tying things up) he calls back and said he gave me the wrong price! I contacted Chrysler, and the dealer by overnight mail with no respone, I am pissed! :mad: Any thoughts on this would be appreciated!

jchan2

Print out the e-mail where the dealer offered their price, and take it back to the dealer, and ask the guy if that was the price he wanted to sell the car to you for.

If that's not the price, you can always look elsewhere. There should be plenty of 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokees out there.

stickguy

Peter Egag, who writes a column in Road and Track magazine, recenly joined the ebay world and bought an old Caddy sight unseen. His column about it was quite good, and really addressed the issues, and leap of faith, one faces when buying a car like that.

stickguy

I almost bought one a year or so back, when I had first discovered Ebay motors (like a crack pipe for the car addict).

Anyway, I was trying it out and bidding on a few things that interested me, just to get a feel for the process. Always bid low ball, just in case, but never anticipated winning anything.

So, I found a Volvo I liked (in Fla at a used car dealer, I'm in NJ). It was going seemingly way cheap, so I put a bid out of $7,600 IIRC, which became top bid, with 1+ day remainiing. Next thing I know, it's the next day, and I'm still high bidder, and trying to think of an explanation for the wife... Even got an Email from the seller demanding to know who I was, since at that point I had zero feedback. Never did respond to that one.

So, when I went to bed, I was within about 1 hour of owning a Volvo 1000 miles. But, even with shipping, if it was as presented, it would be a good deal (about $8,500ish in my garage). But, it turns out that with a minute left, and autobid came in to take it at $7,700.

Moral of the story: make damn sure you would be happy to buy at the price before you put a bid in!

I'm still not sure if the seller would have voided my bid though, but probably not once I called her (and sent the bank check down).

jlawrence01

My general expense is NOT to bid at all until the last hour or so. Why start a bidding battle (and communicating your intent) ?? You end up paying more in the long run.

Ask all the questions and do all the research upfront. But wait on any bidding.

chuckf1

Although I'd never buy a car on e-bay, too risky for my blood, in order to avoid bidding wars, I try not to bid on anything until the final minute. Once I made the mistake of bidding on a pair of shoes a minute and a half before bidding ended, thereby triggering a mini-bidding war causing the price to go above what I wanted to pay

mikefm58

Has been horrible, way too many dead beats. My son tried selling his motorcycle 3 times and got stiffed by the high bidder each time. He eventually sold it through cycle trader.
.
Ebay is good for a unique vehicle, but why buy something you can find locally?

qbrozen

This has become the norm, however, and almost no bids are cast until the last minute. I use a program that bids for me within the last minute of an auction, and I swear everyone else is using the same thing because you can look at the bid history of most auctions and see that, within the last minute, about 5 or 6 (or sometimes many more) bids were cast and the price went through the roof. I use Ebay FAR less than I did a few years ago because of these inflated prices.

jeffkiel

In general, you have to do your homework and realize what things are worth BEFORE bidding on Ebay. Too many times I see used items go for retail or above what the new item would cost...crazy! :confuse:

stickguy

yup, they even recommned using the autobid feature, but it made sense to me to bid low early and let the autobid set the cap.

At this point, I doubt I would buy anything, but it is great for finding stuff for sale locally if you want a specific car that is hard to find. Not so good for buying that 2003 Camry LE.

audia8q

We had a lady in our service department last week who purchased a Miata off of ebay....

she knew she was in trouble when the car arrived at her house on a truck and there was a big oil puddle under the car.....that was just the beginning of the problems. The car had a clean carfax but was clearly hit hard and glued back together with shoestring and rubber bands....the seller is playing mickey the dunce and claims to know nothing. She expressed her displeasure with ebay and said once was enough. She will continue to buy trinkets off ebay but no more cars. The great deal wasnt so great.

kyfdx

Wow.... bought a car sight unseen.. Then, had it delivered? Again, without ever having seen it? Or, having a third party inspector check it out?

Ebay isn't the problem.. She has a severe shortage of good judgement..

Ebay is a good place to find cars.... but, bidding and buying, and taking delivery.... without seeing the car.... that is just nuts!!

regards,
kyfdx

stickguy

But, that's the model Ebay is built on. Trust and feedback. WHich is nice, until you are the one leaving negative feedback!

At minimum, a third party inspection is a good idea. I think that if I did buy, it would only be if I could see it beforehand (that is, sorta local), or at minimum, if I was willing to fly in and check it out before handing over the money, and walk if it wasn't as represented.

Hey, when you buy a pig in a poke, you still end up with a pig!

mikefm58

http://pages.motors.ebay.com/services/purchase-protection.html

Sounds like your friend could use ebay's fraud protection claim process. In particular, the "Material Misrepresentation (undisclosed damage)" to the vehicle.
.
I'm sure it's still a big hassle though and a $100 deductible.

audia8q

Unless the car is something really really unique I can't imagine buying something like a car off ebay......It seems to me that alot of the folks buying cars from ebay are doing so because they "think" they are getting a deal and they get whipped up in the bidding process. I have heard alot more bad ebay car stories than good....

Obviously there are some quality car sellers on ebay and maybe some deals to be had.....but it seems alot easier to weed out a crook who is local than a crook hiding behind ebay 2000 miles away..

Previously there was a guy on here who sold alot of cars on ebay. He did well and had a good reputation....but most of the stuff he sold was unique in one way or another....If I remember correctly he loved stuff like Vauxhalls.

stickguy

seems to be good for oddballs, scams, and as an advertising vehicle for used car dealers that sell higher end stuff.

It's fun to browse if nothing else.

Now parts is a different story. That is a wonderful use of Ebay.

qbrozen

I think even Bill (the guy who likes vauxhalls) said that he mostly uses Ebay for advertising rather than the actual sale. Of course, he's been absent for a very long time now, so my memory could be getting my facts mixed.

rroyce10

..**In general, you have to do your homework and realize what things are worth BEFORE bidding on Ebay. Too many times I see used items go for retail or above what the new item would cost... crazy!** ...

I guess what I find interesting about Ebay is - it's not much different than an auto auction with 3,000 vehicles running thru ..... what gets effected most of all, is the "human factor" ... dealers can stand shoulder to shoulder and bid on the same car, but be $500 or even $2,000 apart on price because the "human factor" falls into the equation (emotion) - "someone is bidding higher than I am, so it must be worth more, so I must bid more" .. I've seen dealers get that crazed look in their eye's and bid til' their arms fall off .. not much different than Ebay, but in slow motion ..l.o.l...

The most important thing .. is to know the vehicle and know what the "real value" is ... that said, you also must be able to touch and feel that vehicle, because the value is really based on what it "doesn't need", not on what someone "feels" it might need ..... ebay is fine for a knowlegable buyer and if he can get to the vehicle and have a close look see .. but what makes ebay successful, is that darn human factor that involves emotion and the intrigue to go with it ......

I had a very interesting conversation with a real estate guy over the weekend and he's been in the business for about 30 years and very successful ... "right now" 22% of his business is based online and ebay .. that means, he has people in Boston, Pittsburg, Detroit, Milwaukee, Green Bay, etc etc that are buying homes "site unseen" down south --- that just friggin' stuns me, it just amazes me.! ...... the 2 most important things in life, *cars and homes* and folks won't even take the inishative to look at them..?!? ... 47,000(?) some lawsuits on ebay - and they want to blame whom...?



Terry :confuse:

steine13

It's high season here in MI, boys, and I'm helping two people this week...
... the first one was a former neigbor; they're shoveling snow in the UP now, but the kid goes to school right here, and his car blew up.
This is the kid who was too sexy for the 170k Corolla from his aunt that wound up being my major transportation for 1.5 years, but I digress.
I do that.

Anyway, Papa and I go shopping and pretty quickly land on former State-of-MI Taurus'. My friend Andre buys these like candy at the local auction; for around $4 I think. 2002 Taurus SE, semi-clean, Vulcan engine, a few dings and pings, well maintained, with 90k on it. $5 or a little less should buy one, and it's a lot of car for the money.

Well, Junior has other plans, and so they wind up with an '01 Blazer LS 4dr 4x4 in pewter, 75k, for $10,600 with some short CPO left. You'd think they'd call and have me look up the values, but heck no. Alright, he can afford it.
This one just for your entertainment.

The second one I looked at today at the lab for one of our post-Docs. 2002 Prizm, white, base 3spd, crank windows but air and power locks.
Some foreign dude pulls up in this thing, which appears to be pretty straight from the auction, with a GMAC sticker still in the window. He told our post-doc that he's a car dealer, but he's got private plates on the car... he also doesn't know from cars, as becomes apparent pretty quickly.
I checked it out stem-to-stern... it was kinda hinky:
No hits as far as I can tell. All VIN stickers there, no clamp marks or anything, the fender bolts looked original. O-kay.
The template in the door jamb that has the manuf date was missing. Someone peeled it off...??? Never seen that before.
The rear left turn signal isn't working, and someone pulled all the covers off on the inside but didn't replace the $2 bulb..?
The tranny looks and smells OK, but the dipstick is just coated in waxy brown buildup, and the cyl head looks like a 70k car, not 36k. Not black, no goo, and no chunks, but nothing like *my* cars, which tend to be silverish rather than honey-colored under the valve cover.
The valve cover has been off and his held on with 3 of four bolts ..?? they rattle when you drive.

Other than that, it's OK; I'm not fond of the 3spd, but it drives alright, makes the right power and sounds, makes cold air to hang beef, and seems to be in ok shape. Smoker's car but you can barely tell.

Ok, it needs new tires, the old ones are so bad they're round, and the car goes down the road funny because of it.

My friend still likes it, so he's taking it to a competent shop to have it looked at.... the thing is, the guy is asking $6 for it, and that's the auction price for a decent one, so I encouraged him to pursue it so long as he has it checked out.

But I told him, I'd get a $4,800 Taurus instead and have a *real* car.

Boy, this got long. Good thing I touch-type :-)

What do y'all think?
Ta -Mathias

steine13

I'm sorry, the last post was off-topic and should have been in RWTIV.

To add to this discussion; ebay is a GREAT place to sell stuff.

I just sold a 1974 Honda CB175 motorcycle. Took good pictures, described it really well, including a couple minor problems -- needed carbs rebuilt to idle properly, but it ran well. Also, the miles were low, 1,800.
I really wrote "War and Peace" and described it to a "T". I think that helps attract serious buyers over flakes, but I could be wrong. Anyway, lots of interest, but not ONE technical questions...??? I would have asked a dozen had I been the buyer.

Anyway, I bought it in '97 for $420, and with ebay and all, I figured it was a $6-800 bike. Well, I started it at $65 with no reserve, all sales final, and got $1125 from a guy who drove up from Buffalo, NY.

He came with cash and left good feedback. I started it up for him, he didn't even ride it.... to each his own, I guess. Count me a satisfied ebay customer!

-Mathias

jhs70

I've been checking out trucks (250s/350s) on ebay for some time. Just curious I guess. But it dawned on me that about 98% of all SuperDuties are from Texas. Why is that? Do all SDs migrate to Texas to retire? It's the strangest thing.

Thanks.

qbrozen

Don't they say "everything is bigger in Texas"?

cadillacmike

"But, that's the model Ebay is built on. Trust and feedback. "

Sure,

and the check is in the mail!

This is the INTERNET folks, beware...

mikefm58

" Sure, and the check is in the mail! This is the INTERNET folks, beware... "

Ebay does have some pretty good fraud protection programs. My son bought some speakers for $200, never received them, the guy used his ex-girl friend's ebay id which had a good feedback rating. He got his money back but it did cost him a $25 filing fee.

ghulet

....I mean, for the 'average' used car, I can't see or justify the use of eBay, unless the price is just phenomenal, or the vehicle in question is 'exactly' what you 'must' have. I like to see, sit in, smell, test drive and really examine my used cars before I buy, and even then I make mistakes. Bidding on a big ticket item like a car that hasn't even been in the same state as you seems counterintuitive.

Of course, for other things, like the 'only' lavender '58 Eldorado Brougham left in the world, or that mint condition original Banana Splits lunch box with Thermos, I understand. For something like an '02 Ford Taurus, no.

mikefm58

Bingo...........

isellhondas

I'll never understand why anyone would buy a mainstream car on Ebay.

If it's way below market value, there has GOT to be a reason!

Kirstie_H

Have you ever bought a car on eBay and had to go a distance to pick it up? If so, a reporter wants to hear about your experience.
Please respond to jfallon@edmunds.com no later than Friday, August 12, 2005 with your daytime contact info, the cities and states involved and the make/model you bought. And, please put "eBay" in your subject line.

man29

Regarding buying a car off ebay, I am actually considering doing that, since a friend of mine bought one right about the end of Spring, it was a 2001 Audi TT. He did the right thing and actually drove down to Maryland from upstate New York with a budy to checked it out, and then drove back with it. The car looks and runs well. Although it took him two tries to buy the car, because the first auction that he won, the seller wanted a huge down payment before he even got the chance to check out the car, so that deal went sour.

The only thing that I am concerned about with ebay is that most cars are either from Florida, Texas, and the west coast, and running the risk of paying for a flight to travel to check out a car, then to find out that it is in bad condition. Also, I don't know how it would work, but it looks like sellers in ebay have the advantage over buyers, since they always reserve the right to cancell the auction, but as a seller, your bid is a contract.

mikefm58

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=4573619548&sspagename- =STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT

It's a 2005 Acura RSX Type-S with 9200 miles for $9500. The seller has no feedback at all. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. The Buy it now price they said is $9500 and includes shipping to anywhere in the US. Ha Ha.

rroyce10

....... As usual ...... you guys drop 4/5 posts at 2/3AM and hope you can get some free advertising ............ is business that bad ..?!?

Terry.

stickguy

don't you ever sleep?

Looks like I missed the good stuff again.

likeitornot

I was just looking on Ebay. On another forum they were talking about it and a couple people were happy with theirs.But its not a car forum and they just took their chances I guess. Ebay has a pretty good selection and prices are average or lower than average for what I want. I've been looking for an automatic, 2 door Civic for months now and I can't stand it anymore..dealerships here never have anything nor do sites like cars.com. So I'm looking elsewhere.

I at least want to go with someone with a high feedback..

I noticed there are some dealerships on there likea Nissan place advertising a Civic that came through a trade in... I didn't think there was anything odd about that. Non-Honda dealers around here always advertise their trade ins in the papers and cars.com..

I did notice a lot of cars are from Florida or Texas.. from other posts in this topic, i guess Texas and Florida should be avoided?

There's no way I'd be able to get to another state to check the car out. I wouldn't know what I was looking at or for anyway. Am I supposed to have them take it to any random mechanic in their area or something?

I planned on getting a CarFax report but from some of the things I've read.. make me think that even CarFax can be not too reliable?

If the price of the car is a good deal... Can the transportation and transfer fees make it not a good deal in the end? (I've never bought a car before, so I'm not even sure what gets added at the end besides registration and tax stuff)

steine13

The "smart way" in your case is not at all.
Buying cars off ebay is tricky business.
Heck, buying cars off the street is tricky business, when you're standing next to them. The good news is you're asking for advice, so it appears you have an idea that you're up against a difficult problem.

Maybe this is taking us a little off-topic, so feel free to shoot me an email. No, I'm not a dealer and I don't play one on TV.

Civics are lousy to buy used; they hold their value too well. If you have to have one, the coupe is indeed your best bet. But I'd look elsewhere, or buy new.

-Mathias

rroyce10

..... Mathias is on this one ....

Unless you're looking for a DB7 or a Ferrari 360 Sypder .. you need to be keeping your purchases close to home - with or without Ebay ..... your idea of a nice vehicle and the sellers could be light years away .. thats why God made mekanics ........ Carsmack.? .. like anything else - it's not perfect, but it sure can cut your odds ......

Terry.

qbrozen

yes, especially on something so common, but desirable, as a Civic, the transport is just not worth it.

Personally, I'm all for using Ebay to buy a car .... but only if its close to home and you can inspect it personally BEFORE bidding.

I don't think alot of people know this, but you can customize how listings appear in Ebay and one of the options you can add is how many miles from your home the item is located. When I'm browsing the cars, I just sort the listings so the closest to home show up first. Once I get to the listings that are too far away, I stop looking.

mikefm58

You can also say "gimme anything within xxx miles from my zip code" where xxx is something like 25, 50, 100, 250, or 500 miles.

likeitornot

"inspect it personally"

You guys are making it sound like I'd know what I was looking at even if the car were local. I wouldn't! I'm female.. I know nothing about cars or how to tell how it runs nor do I know anyone that could help me with that. I don't know any good mechanics. I don't even have a car now so I can't really travel even 50 miles away. I have 1 or 2 reputable dealers in my area but I have been waiting for months for them to get something in my price range. Civics are common but none have what I'm looking for in my price range. (2 door automatic). About a month ago I decided to lower my standards and go with a 4 door..still not much out there.

:sick:

qbrozen

you're still far better off having it checked over by a professional mechanic that you don't personally know than not having it checked over at all.

steine13

"you're still far better off having it checked over by a professional mechanic that you don't personally know than not having it checked over at all."

Unless the guy is a yahoo; this happens quite a bit.

I'd suggest checking the Mechan-X files over at Click&Clack's (www.cartalk.com).
But I'm still not sure that a used Civic at market rates is a good idea. How much money we talkin' about?

-Mathias

jlawrence01

"inspect it personally"

My wife is an insurance adjuster. She normally doesn't do auto work but since that adjuster was on vacation, whe had to go take pictures of a Lexus that had been in a pretty good accident.

She took 12 pictures. If I pulled the six of the pictures and put them on E-Bay, I am sure that I could get a good auction price for that vehicle.

Unfortunately, you, as the buyer, would not see the $4k in damages that occurred.

Believe it or not, even females can notice that a car has rust, or that a car does not "look quite right". Or that the car's interior has been thoroughly trashed. Do remember that photos can be doctored.

I agree 110% with Mathias about having the car thoroughly inspected by **YOUR** mechanic and by letting him know that you are considering a purchase of the vehicle.

chrisa1

We purchased a S60 online from Texas car broker via ebay and shipped to Washington where we live. It turns out the car had some damage not disclosed in carfax or vin report. What if any recourse do we have. The broker has a very good rating on ebay. The title was transferred from the broker to us when we purchased the car. :mad:

raybear

I'm not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV...why are you asking for legal help here and not consulting an attorney?

mikefm58

No legal advice here. But If I were you, I'd just kiss my money goodbye. How can you buy a car sight unseen? Was it a unique vehicle that you simply couldn't find anywhere close?

Check on ebay motors to see if they have any kind of fraud protection.

I am still amazed at how many vehicles are listed on ebay.