Ford Five Hundred/Mercury Montego

rayainsw

"I got out with a Jag S-type. "

If 4.2 and Sport, I'd be very interested in your driving impressions . . . Perhaps you could post on the Jag S-Type board?

I rented one for a 3 day weekend a couple of years ago when I was looking seriously at purchase.

Thanks,
- Ray
Realizing that this is NOT the Jag S-Type board . . .

robr2

What airport?

When I pick up in Orlando, Hertz has the usual Ford/Mercury/Volvo/Mazda/Jag/Land Rover suspects. They also have GM's, Toyotas, Kias, and Hyundais.

ANT14

Ray,
I have test driven the S-type 4.2L sport numerous times before, but this time around just a 3.0L S-type. I wasn't going to look at a gift horse in the mouth. I myself have a LS V8 so the vehicle feels "familiar" in many ways, yet different in suspension tuning for example.

Rob,
Miami Airport (MIA). I wanted to take my car but cosidering I put around 50K miles a year, the higher powers wanted me to rent, so I did being it's not coming out of my pocket.

MIA gas $2.09 Reg
ORL gas $1.95 Reg

Although one of the main points of this trip is to buy 28/34 pants, a size that is NOT shipping to Miami because of it's market and demographics. I actually found quite many here today.

Jag S-type 3.0L did much better with gas, than the previous Mazda6 4 cylinder I got last time. That Mazda6 averaged 14MPG in the turnpike, while the S-type did 22MPG. This is mostly because it takes the 4 cylinder much more work for it to cut through the wind at high speeds. Reving over 4300RPM most of the way. While the S-type did it at a much more leisurely 2600RPM.

Just an example of one of few senarios, where a 4 cylinder is not always as fuel efficient as we expect it.

rayainsw

" I myself have a LS V8"
Me, too.
Thanks for the response.
I'd love to see Ford raid the (Corporate) Jag parts bin for high level equipment to incorporate into a few versions of Ford and Lincoln - Merc products.
AWD 4.2L Jag motor in a 500 sounds pretty cool!
- Ray
Dreamin' . . .

jchan2

I counted one Taurus, three Camrys, two Solaras, one 4Runner and a few Aveos and your typical GM group. (grand am, Alero, Classic, etc.)

johnclineii

Although the rental car discussion is, I suppose, very nice, I still want to know when I will be able to count the many Ford Five Hundred/Mercury Montego reviews appearing in the popular press. When does the embargo end?

And yes, I AM a curious sort!

nvbanker

We're just killing time, John.........sorry.

johnclineii

No need to apologize, just tell me when I can actually READ impressions about these vehicles in the popular press!!!!

ANT14

Ray,

Unfortunately, the 4.2L will never see light in a 500/Montego. It's frontal structure would have to be severely modified for it to happen. Granted, with money you can make ANYTHING happen, but I can safely tell you, THIS won't happen.

And another thing I can tell you, Ford and Jag will share less and less as time goes by. The DEW98 platform will be dropped (as we know it), and the 3.9L goes away from Lincoln use. Instead, expect Jag to borrow/share from/with Volvo.

John,
If you remember the joke I mentioned a week ago... "2 weeks"....and even then you might hear me say "2 weeks" hehe. But it's getting closer and when they do, I'll let you know who reports on it first as it becomes available to me, and I'll post it as well.

johnclineii

....but, the Five Hundred borrows/shares from Volvo. So, is that a distinction without a difference?

As for the two weeks, thanks. I think!

ANT14

The 500 borrowing from VOlvo was a Jac Nasser issue. Originally the 500 was to be the Taurus replacement, but price-wise, it was just not possible to bring the 500 to Taurus price levels.

But yes, Ford can borrow from Volvo, and Jag can borrow from Volvo, but Ford is trying to make Jaguar borrow more from Volvo, than Ford itself. Jaguar consumer's are a bit more critical when/if they are sharing known parts with Ford stablemates. So it's better to share what they won't see or know much about.

Which is why the next X-type will be very different from what we have now.

Wnated to share this link from Autoweek.com over CVT's.

http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat- _code=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=09340443

ehaase

If Ford had it to do all over again, I think that they would have updated the old Taurus platform for the Five Hundred or stretched the Mazda 6 platform. The Volvo platform for the Five Hundred will probably be quite impressive, but also quite expensive.

upsetter1

Jaguar is the most overpriced vehicle on the market. You are paying a fortune for basically Mondeo with Jaguar skin. Other models are not up to Mercedes/BMW or even Audi levels. I think Ford made the mistake letting profitable Lincoln to stale and spent fortunes and still losing money on Jaguar. It goes nowhere.

BTW GM is more successful with Cadillac and Cadillacs are (and will be) more advanced vehicles than similar Jaguars, because GM has better engineering resources. CTS beats X-type easily, and S-type too for that matter. For Jaguar you pay most money for famous (in the past) name. Ford has to get serious about engineering if it wants to succeed. So far it relies solely on German Ford, Volvo or Mazda to do the job.

stickguy

FWIW, the only "real" Jags are the XJ and the convertible. the X-type is Jags version of the Merc C class (trying to take the image downrange to a price point), and the S type is somewhat of a tweener that could probably pass with a few tweaks.

Not sure what this has to do with a domestic car that has to compete in the cut-throat world of of the upeer middle/junior large car segment.

Anyway, as long as the function is there, I don't really care what platform it is based on, or what models it shares parts with (as long as the work well and harmoniously).

seminole_kev

There's more to Jaguar than just XJ's and XK8 type vehicles. I realize this is a bit off topic, but while the X-type could have been executed better (RWD for one) it is in line with the past as is the S-type. Taking the 60's lineup for Jaguar, I'd say that the markets they play in:

X-type = Mk II
S-type = S and 420's
XJ8 = Mk X and of course the early XJs.

Looking at the above, the XK8 actually the oddball out as it is much bigger and more of a luxury car than the E-type was. Really what Jag is missing is a more affordable (say $40K?) sports coupe/roadster (like something along the lines of the still born F-type.)

Sorry for interjecting that, but it drives me nuts that people think the modern XJs solely represent what the Jaguar name means.

ANT14

"sports coupe/roadster (like something along the lines of the still born F-type.)"

It's coming up....

seminole_kev

whoa. Uh.....please don't tell me you're kidding. I was really looking forward to the F-type when the program was killed. Any info out there yet? Anything you can share?

nvbanker

for defending the Cat a little. I also am tired of people ragging on the X-type. It's not a bad little car at all, and has sold well too. IMO, it has all the Jag cues and for the price, is a real bargain. It's no XJ, but pal, I'm sorry, the C is no S class either! They just look similar. The X is too small for me, but I've driven a few of them, and again, for the money, was impressed. Nobody I know has had a lot of trouble with their X type either.

stickguy

that's why I put real in quotes. At least in this country, Jaguar hasn't been what it was in the 60's for a long time (the smaller models).

nvbanker

It's been a lot better, IMO.

ANT14

Withiout going off topic. Next S60 and Euro Mondeo will share quite a bit together. The X-type will lose it's Mondeo genetics altogether, and will spun off a coupe using the same platform. That's currently being planned out, if all goes well that will ebt he game plan.

Ford might use the P2 platform for Ford for one final vehicle (for Lincoln), but that's still being planned out. For Ford to remain profittable with the P2 platform, the cars need to be over a certain pricepoint, which the Taurus level couldn't undertake.

P2 platform is very expensive overall because of it's sophistication ans safety (same with the DEW98 being used in the Lincoln LS). In recent times, my "best bang for the buck platforms" have gone to the DEW98 (Lincoln LS), and M113 (Mark8, Tbird, Cougar), and now I'm adding P2 into that personal list.

Next up, the CD3 architecture which will spin-off (the artist formally known as Futura-heh), next generation of minivan's, midsize SUV's, etc. The award I'm giving that one is, "most flexible for almost anything".

jchan2

is this the mazda 6 platform?

ANT14

Opps, forgot to clear that, Yes, the Mazda6 derived/based platform is CD3 in Ford parlance. Which will spin-off 10 vehicles, 8 which have already been planned out.

jchan2

any clues as to what the remaining two vehicles are?

ANT14

None given yet, could be pretty much anything since it's just a number they through out, sort of a "goal".

tomcat630

Someone awhile back was saying that the Chrysler 300 "may not sell as well as expected". Well, by now most should know that it is selling out and is getting good reviews.

The 500 is about to go into production, July 12th, here in Chicago. With gas prices high, the "low 200 hp" complaint is hardly anything to scream about.

johnclineii

What DID he say?

Retro?

http://info.detnews.com/autosdb/index.cfm?action=details&pict- ure_id=12693

buckwheat

Quoting J Mays, head of FOMOCO global design, "The Five Hundred is an evolution of where we are going; it's not the end result. It's the first car I did in the U.S.. It was frozen at the same time as the Mondeo (launched in late 2000). This was still me in training, with a lot of Audi design DNA in my head. I was trying to clean up the swirly design I'd inherited". Mays doesn't disagree that it looks like a cross between a Passat and Audi A6 (which he helped to design), with Mercedes' taillights and an old Ford grille. Hence his statement "Expect the 3-bar grille to feature prominently on a facelifted Five Hundred in just a couple of years".

johnclineii

Fine. But retro?

That is about the last word I would EVER use to describe a Five Hundred. As for the Montego, to me it seems to borrow liberally from what some have called GM's "angry appliance" theme bin.

Three bar grille? Is that anything like a three martini lunch?

ANT14

The Three Bar grill is what you will soon see on future Ford brand vehicles. This years new Super Duty might give you a hint for example. Next up, will be the (artist formally known as Futura) sedan, which if you saw by it's first sketch, it'll be very much as what you saw.

buckwheat

there is a connection between your question but it has more to do with multiple vertical bars and standing on the inside of an enclosure of them just after getting nailed driving for having consumed that 3 martini lunch.

jchan2

I like the way both the Passat and A6 look. Toss it together and what do you get? A Five Hundred! I like how it looks, personally.

mschmal

Good point about fuel economy of the 3.0 vs a 3.5 more than making up for any hp handicap now a days.

Mark

samnoe

will look like a Land Rover, or Toyota 4Runner. Maybe they should think of something different.

ANT14

Hmmm a bit different than those in the way they are integrated into the rest of the grill, plus the shapes of the bars themselves, and the finish on them.

nvbanker

What's a P-2? Is that an S-80?

ANT14

P2 is the platform of the S80, S60, XC70, XC90, and now Ford Freestyle, Montego, 500, etc.

nvbanker

Well, I really love my business partner's S-80, (I should, I picked it out for him), so I should like something about the 500, Montego then.

johnclineii

Has it been a reliable beast?

nvbanker

You know, it has actually. It's an 01, has 70,000 miles on it. Problems have been contained to a common wiring harness problem, replaced under warranty. The sun roof leaked. Air Conditioning discharged twice and a motor mount broke. That's it. More than my Lincolns cause me, but all repaired under warranty, and pretty acceptable by European standards. It's been a hellovalot more reliable than his wife's 03 745 IL has been already! For one, it's never been towed, and the BMW dealer knows his address by heart now. The car is a flat riot to drive with the turbo, and the most comfortable car I've ever driven. I would seriously consider one were I ready for another Sedan.

ANT14

The S80 had some wiring harnesses issues early on, and keyfob related issues.

Don't worry, Ford won't be using the same wiring harnesses or keyfobs, heh....

nvbanker

He's not had the keyfob problem, I won't tell him about that. I think by 02, the wiring harness was already resolved. How much longer does the P2 have a contract to live?

ANT14

Quite awhile, about 3/4'th of it's life is left, and what's better, it's flexible... so even 10 year's from now, we'll have the "origins" of P2, but even more advanced and modified in some ways, that it loses most of it's kinship to what we know now.

Sort of what DEW98 (Lincoln LS) is to DC2 (Mustang).

S80 will gain a V8 in the close future for it's next redesign, interior console/dashboard will also be heavily modified. Thought I'd share...

jchan2

will we still be able to get the turbocharged five cylinder?

ANT14

That's still being worked out. The V8 will debut on the XC90 first, that's the priority. Yamaha will be designing the engine.

grbeck

...Carlisle Productions held the All-Ford Nationals. Ford brought several prototype vehicles to the show, along with the production-ready 2005 Mustang and Freestyle.

Oddly enough, there were no Five Hundreds or Montegos to be found. Since the Ford display was touting the "Year of the Car," I would think Ford would have wanted to have one of its most important new car introductions in years on display for Ford fans.

On a side note, one of the displays was devoted to all-original Fords (i.e., no restoration). When someone says, "They don't make 'em like they used to," I'd reply, "Thank goodness!"

There was a 1969 Ford Country Squire with 19,000 miles in all-original condition. The paint was peeling from the sheetmetal in a few spots, because the workers had not properly prepped the sheetmetal prior to the painting process. The sheetmetal over the rear windows was so wavy that it looked as though the workers had used a mallet to shape the panels.

An all-original 1979 Mustang Pace Car with 428 miles featured a paint job with so much orange peel it must have been applied by Sunkist. Neither of the bumpers mated too well to the sheetmetal.

It was fascinating to compare this Mustang to the all-original 1993 Cobra R with 413 miles that was less than 50 feet away. The paint on that one was pretty good, and the fit of the body panels was much better. Ford quality really did improve during the 1980s and 1990s.

If the Five Hundred and Montego debut with less-than-perfect panel fit or too many flaws in the paint, customers will proclaim the cars "junk." It's interesting how standards have changed over the past 30 years!

rayainsw

"Yamaha will be designing the engine. "

Sound a bit like the Taurus SHO - from 1989????
- Ray
Who nearly bought one . . .

jchan2

It does seem odd they didn't bring the Five Hundred and Montego. Wonder why they didn't bring the cars.

ANT14

"Sound a bit like the Taurus SHO - from 1989????"

Yes, although I hope the results aren't as disasterous such as the 3.4L V8 SHO that had issues. Although they have designed a few other engines for manufacturer's, like Toyota's 1.8L found in the Matrix, and that has proven reliable so far....

jchan2

They make a lot of stuff. From my kid's upright piano, to waverunners to cars. What's next for Yamaha? Houses?