Cadillac CTS/CTS-V

b4z

I guess the dealer will make about $6500 on the CTS-V and about 4K on the CTS manual trade-in.

I need to get out of real estate and into the car business.

ctsgirl_2004

Very nice write-up of the 2004 CTS in yesterday's (Saturday) Boston Globe!

wwhite2

Cadillac made very few Eldos in the last 8 years of production . The last off the line special version were LOW production and its not holding value . If your made of money it wouldnt matter but I just dont see any empirical evidence that the CTS-V wont suffer from its normal Cadillac depreciation ,after they are sold at or above sticker

mannytranny

What is it?
    How do you think it compares to other vehicles, American and foreign?
     I would have thought that it was because of rebates, incentives, etc. like is killing most American car re-sale values. But a car that had neither (CTS) I think that it is very strange.

wwhite2

I think consumers just expect one year old or more Cadillacs to be low priced , They have been for so long . I was hoping the CTS would try to turn that around , but it takes a long time to turn a ocean liner. I also think you can do better on a trade value if it wasnt on a CTS-V .
  I am not convinced that a CTS-V wont suffer from the ssame problem .

v8lincolnguy

The special edition Eldos and CTS-V comparison is a little apples to oranges. While the special editions of the Eldo were rare and somewhat unique, they really didn't have alot of appeal other than to a few die hard Cadillac loyalists. The V on the other hand looks to be a very promising and serious sport sedan. If the car performs as good as the initial reviews say, it will be a sought after car on the used market. Something the Eldorado is not. Will the CTS-V hold it's value as well as an M5 or AMG MB? Probably not. But will it's value drop like that of an Eldorado, Deville, or Seville? Doubtful. If Cadillac continues to roll out good performing and well excuted cars like the CTS-V, then I think we will begin to see the brand's overall resale values improve. Until the $6-10K rebates on Devilles and Sevilles go away, this likely won't happen.

v8lincolnguy

I watched Bad Boys II last night and enjoyed that chase scene with the CTS. Thats two movies this past year that the CTS has been strategically placed in. I also noticed that just like in the Matrix Reloaded, the freeway crash scene in BB II was awash in fairly late model GM cars. Is this their new way of liquidating their overabundance of lease or fleet car turn-ins:)

wwhite2

Time will tell on the CTS-V and the XLR . I dont know if I would want to take the gamble by paying sticker price.

peccles

I went to GM's Auto Show In Motion this past
weekend. You could test drive just about any
GM car and its competitors. I drove a CTS w/3.6L
and 530i back to back 3 times on their road
course. Both felt very similar. The CTS had
a bit more body roll and the brakes felt slight
softer than the 530i. Not sure if either had
their respective sport suspensions or not.

Although a limited test, the rides are very similar. No way is the 530i worth $10K more
than a CTS. Each Caddy dealer, should buy a
530i to let prospective CTS buyers compare.

cdnpinhead

are anything like perspective Lincoln LS possessors, you're contemplating throwing pearls before swine (not my original words -- no offense meant to any group, including the pigs).

I'll go out on a limb here and posit that the vast majority of CTS drivers don't have a clue that it's a performance vehicle. Most of the dealers are in the same boat. Those who inhabit Edmunds are a small minority, though we'd wish to be otherwise.

Asking a dealership that thinks a manual transmission is mostly a tool of the devil to buy a BMW for comparison purposes wins the Don Quixote concept award for the year, if not the decade.

Just for discussion, how many of you seeking CTS's, especially the more performance-oriented ones, have felt comfortable with the dealerships? Do you speak to sales and service people who appreciate handling, fore/aft weight distribution, the desire (or need, in my case) for a manual transmission? Or are you talking to the wall/hand?

My opinion is that the dealerships are a large portion of why the Lincoln LS has lost whatever performance cachet it might once have had. I've dealt with quite a few of these people in a large and growning marked (Phoenix), and it's not pretty. Cadillac had better be careful.

As is often the case with these diatribes, I'm happy to be wrong. Watching what's happening with my own car however. . .

eaton53

Cadillac didn't stop at one car, so if their people haven't figured out what they're about, they'd better get it soon because that's all they're going to have to sell. My dealer is pretty good, though... no worries.

I used to own a Merkur, which L-M was completely clueless about. Hopefully they've gotten better. If not, they do have a couple of very nice SUV's.

sda

bingoman: here is Charlotte, NC. One Cadillac dealer in town, two locations. Car is at the South Boulevard store. I think Edmunds forbids me from stating the dealer's name. Hope this helps.

necros

cu95: If it makes you feel any better, I've bought five sets of tires from tirerack.com, and never had a problem. In fact, I don't know anyone who's ever had a problem with them, and the people I talk to have probably bought thousands of sets of tires, collectively.

v8lincolnguy: Three that I know of. The two you mentioned, and there was a black CTS in the remake of the Italian Job, if you could see past the Mini commercial...

mannytranny: They told you $20K, they told me $19K. But if you go through autotrader. com, you can see base ones going for $25K, right at NADA book and Edmunds TMV.

cdnpinhead: I felt VERY comfortable with my dealership, and their service. But my service writer loves racing, another one there races with his children. All are fascinated that I race the CTS. In fact, I was asked for my "expert" opinion, the other day when I went in the push the Hot Button, by a salesman on the floor, so that he could better sell the CTS from a performance perspective. Sadly, however, I think my dealer is the exception.

cdnpinhead

I meant to say/spell prospective, not perspective, but am not inclined to delete the message and put it in again.

FWIW.

logic1

better versed in performance speak than the Licoln dealers. This is based on visits to only two Chicago area Lincoln and two Chicago area Cadillac dealers.

Ironically, one of the Lincoln dealers is a Licoln/Saab/Land Rover. When the sales person gathered I was interested in performance, he tried to steer me toward a Saab 9-3 Aero.

On the other hand, Ford itself has done an excellent job reaching out to LS performance fans. GM, as always, remains somewhat aloof from its customers.

mannytranny

I feel that the nearby dealers (of which there are two) feel that the people that bought a Cadillac will return to buy another. The first sale is probably the hardest. With the CTSs, I saw the salespersons really working to convince the people that this car was the Cadillac future. Since there is a Lincoln dealer right next door, I think the comparison to the LS was a good one.( and who would want a manual trans, Lincoln doesn't have one)
     Most of the manual trans that were sold were to people who came in already wanting 'a sporty car'. My dealer did not even tell anyone that a manual trans was available. My dealer is no exception. The other dealer in the area asked me 'why would you want a manual trans---it's a Cadillac?'
     The ads that Cadillac featured never mentioned a manual transmission, so .... why would the dealers.
     I bought my CTS because I wanted a performance car with a manual transmission. I couldn't feature going to the dragstrip with an auto. Just no fun. I really enjoy the CTS and have had only minor problems with it. It's hard to believe that it's almost 1.5 years old.
     The CTS is a great driving machine. Someday, I'll maybe give up the manual trans. but not yet.I don't mind the city driving and shifting because I've only had manual trans vehicles.I guess that some would say I don't know any better.
But that's just the way I feel.

v8lincolnguy

That is a good point as unlike Lincoln which still had it's old school cars like the Town Car, Navigator, and Continental, CTS-like cars are pretty much all Cadillac is going to have to sell so the dealers better learn how to sell them or get out of the business. If I were a Cadillac salesman, the performance aspects of the CTS would be the biggest selling point for me. I'd gladly compare it to it's European and Japanese competitors rather than go on about how of a better car than the Catera it is. The few times I've been to a dealer to test drive a CTS(and do the 24 hour test drive) I was impressed with their knowledge of the car.

saintjr

I have 5800 plus miles on my CTS. I have loved every moment of it. I must report however a problem that I had on New York's Cities frist single digit cold night. I left work at 12:30am and was unable to start the car. Attempted a jump with a portable and car system with no dice! Called Cadilliac Roadside Service that morning (got a ride home and came back in a.m.) They responded very fast but were unable to jump start. They towed me in(flat bed-wow). The dealer gave me a loaner. A few days later-(they kept it to see if the new battery was drained buy any thing in the car)I got my CTS back with only a new battery as the remedy. Its been a working in this cold weather for the past week without a problem. I saw several hits in this site with the same SUDDEN dead battery problem. A postive thing was gotten out of the problem-the two clocks finally are showing the same time.(a writer in this site had written once that he disconnected the battery as a clue all for the two clocks running different)

I have the navigation system but would really like to tint the windows. The manuel for both the On-Star system and Navigation both advise against this stating it will interfere with their reception. They point out the rear window but I wonder if I could tint the sides. Also I met someone who stated there is a non-metallic tint that would not affect the On-star or Navigation system but no one seems to have ever heard of it. Has any one with these systems had any problem with tinting? Is there a non-matallic tint? Could I get away with just tinting the sides windows?

wybes

Just curious, why would tinting the windows interfere with the reception for OnStar and the Nav. system? Also, wouldn't it be nice if you could have OnStar without the stupid antenna on the back window. If they can incorporate the radio antenna in the windshield why not do the same with OnStar??

batmanscts

saintjr and wybes:
     I have an 03 CTS with the darkest legal (Colorado) tinted windows. I had the tinting done before I took delivery of the car, so I don't know if OnStar might have worked better without it, but I've been happy with the OnStar performance. The only minor problem I've noticed with OnStar is losing/breaking contact a few times while passing under interstate overpasses or on metal bridges. I'm sure that is due to line-of-sight transmission interruption rather than anything related to window tinting. Cell phones sometimes do the same thing.
 
     Don't have the Nav system so I can't comment on that issue.

wybes: It is easier to incorporate the radio antenna into a window because it is a receive only antenna. The Onstar antenna has to transmit and receive. Commercial radio stations have relatively strong power outputs that allow pretty good reception with even "hidden" antennae. Although you lose some reception capability with the antenna in a window, many customers either don't notice the difference or are willing to accept the occasional loss to have a slicker looking vehicle profile.
    While it is technologically possible to use an "embedded" antenna to transmit, the technology is far more expensive than a simple whip antenna. Additionally, the whip antenna extends above the body of the car reducing the line-of-sight problem. Without the whip antenna, you'd probably need several "embedded" antennae all around the car. You'd also probably have a far more expensive system and still have poorer performance than with the ugly little antenna used today.

      I'm sure someone will comment that OnStar vehicle locator is supposed to work even if the antenna is broken off. If the locator function really does work with the antenna broken off, I suspect it is due to something equivalent to a transponder capability that requires less power and a smaller antenna than is required for quality voice transmissions.

     Any real experts out there care to enlighten the rest of us?

sevenfeet0

The XLR does not have a whip style or the new stub style Onstar antennas found on other GM vehicles. I'm not sure where they hid the thing...

bxd20

I've had a good experience with Tire Rack. Most people I know have as well. Occasionally, when you buy a wheel and tire package, I've heard of the balancing either not being done or done really badly requiring another balancing.

Brian

v8lincolnguy

As Onstar systems go to digital cell phone technology, they will likely use smaller antennas as digital typically doesn't need a long "whip" or mast antenna. Remember when cell phones were analog and they all had a long antenna you had to pull out when in use. Many phones today have no external antenna at all or simply have a fixed stub.

golfnut5

saintjr,

You should get your instrument cluster replaced to fix the clock sync problem. GM is aware of the problem, I had mine replaced and no problem since. It only took fifteen minutes for service tech to put the new instrument cluster in.

bingoman

The SLR's OnStar antenna mount is on the right rear window. I was at my dealer's today to check on the hot button and took a look at the SLR to confirm. I did not win the car, darn.

(edit) My car came back from the dealer a couple of months ago with the clock working correctly even though I had not reported it as a problem. Then several weeks later it lost a few minutes. Last week I ran down the battery while in the garage trying to program a route into the nav system, the headlights went on automatically and I failed to turn them off until the system reported low battery voltage. I charged the battery overnight with a charger. In the morning the battery was fine and then I noticed that the dashboard clock was correct. I don't know if there was any connection.

rob35cts

I will be getting my new tires put on this spring. I went in to see if they had what they needed so that when they put the car on the lift they wouldn't bend the metal lip that comes down on the car. They said it wouldn't bend. I don't believe them as someone on this site said that theirs got bent. What does everyone else think?

riskybusiness

I've had my CTS up on the hoist at least 4x for tires (rotations, snows on/off, etc.)and also used the manual jack once for a flat. The notch on the underbody where the manual jack fits in seems to be quite strong, and the shop hoists caused no apparent damage, either. I think you're pretty safe. I'd be more concerned with the tire removal/remounting process and its effect on the aluminum rims. Check for scratches before you go in and after you come out!

wwhite2

The pinch weld will bend over especially if the ear of the hoist does not have a rubber pad . Which is exactly what happened with my CTS . Do not let them leave it up for extended periods of time or use an all steel ear . Hoist manufacturers now make ears that will accept pinch welds and not lift by them . Even the jack for the car doesn't lift by the pinch weld , there is a cutout for it . Will it happen every time ......? no you just dont want it to happen to you .

32caddy

Rob35cts - Why are you getting new tires?? The CTS has a recall for new tires FREE!!!! I just got mine and the dealer who knows how to lift CTS's did it. Have a nice ride.

sevenfeet0

What recall is this?

bingoman

There have been cracks discovered on the inside sidewall of a number of 17" tires on '03 SportLux CTS's. The factory claims this is only a 'cosmetic' defect and does not affect safety but in the interest of maintaining Cadillac quality has decided to replace all SportLux tires delivered up to that time.

I have had the defect on two of my tires with tears of approximately 6". Both tires where replaced at the time the problem was discovered during two separate tire rotations. During the recall all four tires were replaced. At no time did either of the tires lose air or present any other symptom. I know there was no loss of air pressure as I have a tire monitoring system installed which displays actual tire pressure of each tire.

wwhite2

I have had a few 04 Deville loaners . They have a tire pressure system it was neat . Cadillac should have this and other technologies available in the CTS. I would pay for it .

calicadi

A rally is being held in the Dublin area on February 21. Sure would be nice to see other CTS's taking on the Porsches besides yours truly.

For more info check out www.the rallyeclub.org

Go to their calendar link for the February Frolic. You can register online or at the event. All you need is a navigator and $20. Hope to see you there.

bigdaddycoats

I believe there has been a change to the rear of the car. Local dealer has some on the lot that have body color (don't know what it is called) instead of the clear plastic around the license plate area. Looks just like the V. Very nice improvement.

calicadi

That should be http://www.therallyeclub.org

...no intervening space between 'the' and 'rallyeclub'.

wwhite2

"They " threatened to make the bezel body color before . Posters said they saw it . I didnt noticed it on any 04's . Looks like it has been done !

rob35cts

It is for the recall that I am getting the new tires. I am going to wait until I am off for the summer. I am going to a dealer but he doesn't have the proper ears. Caddy32 did he use the proper ears on your car? Did anyone's rims get scratched??????

ronhextall

Any word on the base pricing for a CTS with the big V-6 paired with the manual transmission? I know it is not offered now but I think it will be in the future?

wwhite2

They didnt scratch my wheels for the tire recall but I did find a lug nut cover that was loose. No big deal I tightened it . Its just to bad they are in such a "flat rate" rush . It would be a good idea to see if their hoists have the rubber pads on the ears . It is mostly older lifts that are designed to lift full frames that have all steel ears .

32caddy

my car looks great after tire change. After a few days took it back for a retorque at no charge!

bluemalibu0

Just ordered the replacement for my Lincoln LS V8.

I really don't like automatics so after a lot of debate I ordered the manual even though it only comes with the 3.2L engine. Shame on GM for not having the manual available for the 3.6l at introduction!

Anyone else have an '04 manual?

Mine should arrive next month and has:

Blue Chip Paint
Bose
Sport Package
XM Radio
Load Leveling Delete.

The good part was with the manual the car was cheaper. I have a 3 yr, 15K miles, 0 down lease at $450 month.

Since I am already down on power (compared to the 3.6) I am looking to buy an exhaust. Any recommendations?

bluemalibu0

Just ordered my car and the dealer informed me most sport package cars are on a production hold. Anyone know why?

jmh4

When I ordered my CTS in august Sport Package was on hold for the wheels. Possibly the same thing now.

I love my CTS. Had a problem last night though! I was coming home from work and all the dash lights went out. Headlights worked so drove home. When I turned off the car the lights came back on. We will see what today brings!

wesley1der

Would like to know what made you chose the CTS over the Lincoln LS8? I just turned in my LS8 and starting to look at different makes. CTS is one I want to look at. Weather in the midwest so nasty I haven't got out to look.

bluemalibu0

wesley1der,

Got the CTS this time because it has a manual trans available. I liked the LS but it wasn't sporty enough with the auto-trans. Also, the CTS is a bit less expensive.

bigdaddycoats

Congrats. Manuals are a lot of fun. I hope the hold does not take too long. The rumor is that for 05 there will be a manual available for the 3.6. I think 05's start production 5-17-04.

cornellpremed

3.2L is gone next year (i.e. this May), and the 3.6L gets a 6-speed manual transmission.

Also, there will be a 2.8L engine (~200HP), that's based on the 3.6L. This will likely be for export markets only.

What the CTS really needs though is AWD. I've been having a lot of problems with my car here in Ithaca. I've had my CTS since 2002, but my Junior year I left the car back home in Toledo (where it's not as cold, and only snows 37 inches). Here in Ithaca, it snows everyday. Probably 90 inches annually.

Anyways, it's hilly too, so when there's snow, the car can't get up a lot of hills. Public services (like snow clearing) are an absolute mess in New York state, so that definitely does not help. Nor does the locals demand for living wage ordinances (cuts back on the number of services tax dollars can buy - like snow clearing), and the claim that salt is poisoning the fish in the lake. But I digress...

CTS, especially with the sport package, handles like crap in inclement weather conditions. There are a lot of BMW 3-series here at Cornell, and I never envied those folks up until now. Their cars (even the non-AWD varieties) have much less problems in the snow than my CTS.

My car is on a lease, so spending $1000 to get snow tires outfitted (espcially since my car is due back next summer), would be an absolute waste. GM needs to equip better tires on the CTS, or put more weight over the rear wheels.

beanboy

Weight distribution of near 50/50 is near optimal for handling, is about the best you are gonna get for a front engined sedan. Not sure what tires come with the CTS, but I'm sure they lean more towards the sporty end of all-season performance.

As far as the BMWs, I'm sure many have dedicated winter tires on them.

-B

necros

Yep, the CTS comes with crappy tires stock. They are, however, all-season, which really means no-season. I've got summer tires for the summer, and I don't drive the CTS when it snows. Ifr I did, though, I would slap on a set of Blizzak WS50s. I think they are pretty dang cheap (~$100) and based on my Blizzak experiences in other cars, would help immeasurably.

On the BMW topic, my family had BMWs for many years, and they were pretty dang good in the snow -- when you ran studded snows on them. If ou didn't, they were just as crappy as any other RWD car.

bingoman

If you think additional weight in the rear will help try throwing a couple of sandbags in the trunk. They are cheap and may give you the extra traction you need, and if you really get stuck you can always shovel some of the sand under the tires.