GM is not on the leading edge of technology. They are just now starting use the 5-speed automatic that they made for BMW a few years ago. At least the better stuff seems to be well done (like the northstar and the 5-speed). The northstar is just getting variable valve timing (BMW has had that for years) and the 5-speed automatic has good gearing (unlike the lincoln LS).
Technology cant only be measured by VVT. GM made many features standard or optional before other automakers. ABS, real life oil monitoring, stability, Magnaride and other things came on GM vehicles before they hit the general automotive market. BMW just came out with an active suspension on the 745i this year. GM debuted magnaride this year and will have it one two more vehicles next year. VVT does not make a big impact on the consumer. It is mainly for marketing and bragging rights. There are plenty of other ways to improve engine power but people act like any technologythat doesnt involve VVT is useless. The efficiency gains are so minimal that they might was well refrain from mentioning them. 5 and 6 speed autos rarely make a car faster and offer 5% or less improvements in fuel economy. The reason why everyone is jumping to those trannies is no one wants to be left behind. BMW doesnt even make the 6 speed auto in the 7 series, is is made by ZF and thats whyt he S-type has the same thing.
I think the new engine in the CTS will be best in class along with the 3.5L in the G35.
GM's 4.2 inline 6 has VVT to get the power and fuel efficiency that it has. The RWD northstar has VVT and has more power and eliminated the EGR valve because the timing on the exhaust valves now do the EGR instead. I think that this is also true for the I6. In powertrains I think GM is behind, but GM's powertrains are in general well designed (at least the newer ones). GM's automatics are probably some of the best (but most are 4 speeds). ohc engines need 5 speed automatics - but ohv engines really don't.
Regardingthe S-Type: 6 speeds don't help if the engine and transmission is not programmed properly. I understandthat the car shifts well short of its redline and that it's 0-60 time is not commensurate with 400 hp.
Infiniti/Nissan might have more cars that use manuals in this country than GM, but I doubt that's the case worldwide. In the United States, most cars are purchased with slushboxes, regardless of the brand with the exception of Porche, Ferrari, and other exotics.
GM is also one of the biggest manufacturers of automatics transmissions in the world, if not THE biggest. Their transmissions are frequently outsourced to other manufacturers. They have shown up in Rolls-Royces, Bentleys, Jaguars, Land Rovers and others. They may not be state of the art, but they are generally known to be durable and reliable. I can't imagine that autotransmissions at GM cost significantly more than manuals when you factor in the sheer volume that GM manufacturers.
I spoke to the marketing rep that Cadillac sent to Atlanta for the marketing event I attended a few weeks back. I basically told him the same thing you guys are. The CTS is a BMW 5 series sized vehicle priced like a 325i/330i. GM's marketing arm was so intent on comparing themselves to the 3 series that they didn't stop to think of whether they should have gone after the bigger competitor.
The 5 series is a wonderful car, but it is getting a bit long in the tooth. The CTS has nothing to compete with the 540i yet, but the 525i/530i are worthy competitors. They also cost $10K more. If Cadillac has taken this marketing tack, they could have had a situation that Infiniti now enjoys by selling a credible car for a lot less. Instead, they went after the 3 series in comparisons which is a smaller car that weighs 300 lbs less. Despite the price premium, Cadillac will lose that fight. The G35 is holding its own primarily because of the over-the-top engine.
The S-type R is not 400 hp - that was the DIN figure. It's really 388. And the question wasn't whether the new technology is good or not, just whether it was available. GM has other areas with advanced technology (night vision, OnStar, Magnaride, etc.) but not in engines and trannies (compared to the competition). And VVT is a big deal. It allows for more power at lower rpms and better fuel efficiency. The 2003 LS gets a substantial power boost and better performance with no penalty in mileage (it might actually be better).
I think that the first gear ratio is still ~3.25:1 which is not all that strong for 5 speeds. The CTS's first is 3.42:1 which is not great, but better. I would like about 3.5:1. Of course the gears that you get depend on choices for the other ratios. I like the ratios that the CTS has - 3.42; 2.21; 1.61; 1.00 and .75 :1. The only ratio I would change is 3rd gear but that would change the other gears. I played with the gearset ratios (there are three planetary gear sets I think (full sets)) and I came up with the sets that would work. What I would like are gears that are closer together at the high end, so I would like 3rd to be more like 1.5:1.
To CTS owners, does the automatic on-off headlights have a delayed "lights off" feature and if so can the delay be adjusted? The reason I ask is I know the car has the automatic feature as I've seen the position on the headlamp switch but have not seen a delay adjustment which other Cadillacs(and other cars with automatic lights) have. Just a small point I'm curious about.
The ZF 6-speed is much more efficient than a traditional 4 or 5 speed tranny. The internal design is quite different. Having 6 speeds gives you closer ratios keeping the engine in the peak power band longer. Plus it allows a very high 6th gear for highway cruising and better mpg .
You guys are quoting the nice things you've read in the articles but that fact remains that the fuel efficiency gains garnered by use of VVt and 6 speeds is minimal. You have to remember the main purpose of VVT is to improve the specific output of an engine. It is probably the best way to get more power out of a small engine without resorting to SC or turbos. Look the mileage figures of V-6 and V-8 vehicles with 5 speeds and tell me if you see any difference. The IS 300 and Lincoln LS are two vehicles with 5 speeds that get terrible mileage. The CTS has a 5 speed and gets subpar mileage. The 745i isnt getting great mileage either. Trust me, I just read an article about GMs upcoming 6 speed and it says that it enhances economy by 3 or 4%. That is nothing in the real world, you will never notice it at the pump.
I dont think Cadillac has targeted any specific BMW model with the CTS and that is a good thing. They basically said here is our car, take it or leave it. They werent bending over backwards trying to show its a great value compared to BMW. None of BMWs other competitors do that and cadillac shouldnt either.
was 4 to 8%! fuel consumption depends on a number of things. The CTS's fuel consumption is high because the engine is running fairly fast. If the new V6 is coupled with a better axle ratio - that is say 3.08 for the automatic instead of 3.42 - then we should see better EPA MPG numbers. But if Cadillac goes for the performance, then MPG will be worse.
The EPA numbers for the I6 in the trailblazer seem somewhat better than for some other SUV's and I think the VVT is part of the reason.
Trailblazer's are probably a little better because it is a 4.2L engine vs. a 4.6L or 5.0L V8.
Top gears have been optimized for the available torque. You won't see a .50 overdrive in a trailbalzer because there is not enough low end torque to pull it. A Corvette can run a .50 all day and at low speeds because the engine has a lot of low end torque. The car is relatively light and it won't be towing anything. The lowest you will see on a passenger car with an auto is somewhere around a .70-.65 overdrive. regarless of the axle ratio.
We will see our biggest mileage gains with the upcoming Displacement on Demand and lighter weight materials.
The 0.5 overdrive ratios are found on manual transmission - not automatics. What VVT does for you is to improve the lowend torque so that the engine can run slower. I think BMW's mpg improved with the double vanos. I think it improved because they changed the axle ratios. Certainly they changed the axle gears when the automatics went from 4 speeds to 5 speeds (1999 & 2000 5 series). However, the improvements are not going to be on the order of doubling the MPG. Anyone who thinks the big SUV's can double their MPG by adding more technology is wrong.
Does anyone out there do their own oil changes? I enjoy doing my own maintenance and would like to know if it's a simple spin on filter, easily accessible, etc. Are aftermarket service manuals available?
You wrote (#1000): "I don't think what you experienced with the radio is the battery saver. I think you have delayed accessory power just like the LS. The radio, windows and other controls will work for 10 minutes after the ignition is turned off or until the door is opened. Check your owner's manual. The battery saver feature should take a lot longer than 10 minutes to activate. I had it on my 1995 Ford Ranger pickup."
You are partly correct. There are two separate power cut-offs on the CTS, the "Retained Accessory Power" (Manual p. 2-27) and the "Exterior Lighting Battery Saver" (2-58). But both do the same thing 10 minutes after the ignition switch is turned off, that is, the RAP turns off accessories, in the case I described, the radio, and the ELBS turns of the exterior lights, except that it won't turn of the headlights if you turn them on after the ignition switch has been turned off. Which is what I theorize caused my dead battery (#863, #996). The only scenario I can think of that would have caused a dead battery, considering the battery cells tested OK, the Battery Saver is operative, and the problem hasn't recurred, is that I turned on the headlights after turning off the ignition, mistakenly thinking that the Auto Twilight Sentinel would turn them off. That's a good lesson to be aware of, BTW, that if you turn the headlights on when the ignition switch is off, you must turn them off manually.
To confuse matters further, there is another feature Caddy calls the "Battery Saver Active" (2-107) that is a warning message that battery voltage is too low.
Need help!! I love the CTS and would purchase one tomorrow, but my wife likes the Toyota Avalon. I don't mind the interior of the Avalon, but lets face it, the exterior is dull and boring. My wife doesn't like the sound of the CTS when you step on it and says the interior is too small compared to the Avalon. She says the Avalon floats down the highway and doesn't sound loud when stepping on it. I like to feel the road and hear the engine when stepping on it. What's a guy to do? Divorce? HAHA!!! With almost $3000 to use on my GM earnings and 0% financing the month of October I can't see going wrong. The Toyota guy told my wife that the resale value of Toyota is better than Cadillac, costs less to maintain and says the 0% financing is because Cadillac isn't moving cars off the lot. Does anyone have any advice for me? How can I convince her to go for the CTS?
Follow your heart. As I see it you have two choices:
Heart #1 - The CTS is a great car to drive. The more I drive it, the more I like it. The engine does have a buzz to it. I like it. If you enjoy driving for the pleasure of it, the CTS is the car to buy. My wife likes her CTS more than any other car she's ever driven and she's driven a lot of different cars. $3000 and zero percent financing is money in your pocket!
Heart #2 - Your wife wants an Avalon. The Avalon is a big Camry, which is not a bad car. Is it that much better than the CTS that you can afford to pass up the cash? Get your wife to test drive a CTS. The GM earnings and zero percent financing can free up some money to buy something else she may have wanted.
Toyota sales people will tell you whatever it takes to sell a car (so will Cadillac sales people). CTS's are moving off the lot as soon as they are delivered. Ask yourself, do you want a car that floats down the road?
Finally, don't listen to me or anyone else. Test drive a CTS and an Avalon on the same day or a day apart. Who is going to be the primary driver? Discuss the financing with your wife and decide which car to buy together.
It sounds like you're really in a pickle. The CTS was designed for feedback: feedback from the road, feedback from the engine, etc. The Avalon was designed to isolate you from everything, much like its more expensive cousin, the Lexus LS430.
Toyotas historically do have good resale. But as far as driving with a big grin on your face, it's no better than a nice Buick in my opinion. The CTS is faster, and handles a lot better. But that may not mean anything to your wife. The Toyota guy is wrong on one aspect: GM isn't doing 0%/2.9%/3.9% financing on the CTS because they aren't selling. The car is a best seller right now. Have her ask the dealership how long CTS's are staying on the lot. GM is going for market share on this car by offering incentives. They are having no trouble selling it right now.
If you still wanted to spend your GM dollars at Cadillac ($3000 is no small potatoes), a compromise vehicle might be a Seville (SLS or STS). The only problem is that its more expensive than the CTS (by a good $10-15K). But it's larger, quieter, very powerful and more luxurious. You can also get certified pre-owned ones for very good deals. But the Avalon will always beat the CTS on price. A very well equipped one won't cost you more than $35K. My CTS cost $39K and that was without the Nav system.
I'm lucky that my wife likes smaller faster cars and has fallen in love with this car as I have. She would have ordered a 5-speed if it weren't for the fact that my long limbs wouldn't allow it. What might better appeal to your wife are the safety features (safety cage, side curtain air bags, rigidity of the Sigma platform, Stabilitrak on the LuxSport and the all important OnStar.
Car buying is often a very emotional decision. Good luck on your powerss of persuasion. You're going to need it.
Last night, I got challenged at a stoplight for the first time in my life. Of course, this is the first time I've owned a car that someone wanted to challenge me in. The opponent was driving a late model Nissan Maxima and I didn't even think he was racing me until he flew off the line and didn't slow down, occasionally glancing over at me.
I managed to keep up (after giving away a car length lead) just to give the CTS a chance to see what it could do. I also had a weight penalty with my wife in the passenger seat, and I weigh 300 lbs myself. But my new black car held its own. And the experience got a big laugh from my wife.
That's why I enjoyed all of the challenges at traffic lights from Acuras , Lexus, and one Mercedes. After one day at the drag strip , I'm now on the prowl at traffic lights for any challengers. Quite a interesting experience to get a challenge in a Cadillac isn't it!
I ordered my new CTS three weeks ago and can't wait for it to come in. From previous postings, it sounds like 6-8 weeks (any recent data??)is the normal delivery time, so until then I'll keep on dreaming.
I'm trading in my '97 BMW 328 convertible. The Beamer has been great, but I need more interior room (6'-6'') and the convertible experience is getting a bit old...
I tried out a lot of cars - most without enough head room. The CTS (without a sunroof) fits well and I love the look and drivability of the car.
Your wife likes one of those ugly and boring Toyota Bloatmobiles... my condolences to you.
You didn't say who the primary driver of this car is. That's a big consideration.
You also have $3K in GM rebates... does your wife like jewelry? You can do a lot of bribin' with 3 grand.
Man, I'm glad I don't have this dilemma. My wife wanted a Seville (and got it) and likes the CTS, so I got no problem. Just waiting for the finances to work themselves out, which will take a few years.
The CTS works well for tall drivers. Take it from me (6'11"). I even got a sunroof. I just recline the seat back enough to clear my head, and I don't really care much about the seat behind me :-).
The CTS is about the size of a 5 series BMW with more legroom. And it does have a real rear seat if you need to bring friends along, unlike the 325i. I doubt it will be any faster than your current ride, but it's well put together and the car begs to be tossed around. You will also kiss cowl shake goodbye since you are chucking a convertible. The BMW I-6 makes a nicer sound, but the 3.2L V6 in the CTS always likes to run.
My CTS took six weeks to deliver so you probably have another 3 weeks. What package (std, Lux or LuxSport) and colors did you get? And did you order from the old options list of the new one (Bose noise-cancelling radios, new colors)?
Onyx Blue is a great color. It was our second choice behind black. We ordered the LuxSport too with the same radio. Had the new DVD based Nav system been available, I probably would have ordered it.
It's true the CTS looks like nothing on the road, save the Escalade. I see it getting head snaps regularly when I drive. You can't get that with most BMWs anymore. They are also truly expensive.
I can't blame BMW for getting whatever the market will bear, but it doesn't mean I have to pay for it. Most car magazine know that BMW is stretching it for cost justification, but they make such capable machines that most people just sigh and fork over more money.
Got a documentary from the office of Mark LaNeve a few days ago. Was about L/GR and CTS assembly...pretty incredible. It was very interesting...
Robotic "carts" drive all the CTS parts around L/GR to the exact place they need to be at the exact time...there is no "line" per say...just assembly locations where stuff comes together. Everything is very fluid and extremely efficient. I was literally amazed...cars go through a "perfect" paint process...two minute full water submergance...squeak and rattle tests...every part is checked for tightness and fit with a gap-fitter...every part is checked for quality as the car is assembled. It's really an amazing facility, all the people who work there seem really in to what they do.
The assembly process is described as a "ballet in perfect synchronization". It really is . . . wow, kudos to General Motors for building an assembly plant like that!! Wow...really cool.
The fit and finish of my LuxSport CTS is superb, but I was one of apparently a fair number of twisted fuel filler hoses. How (or why) do you suppose that happens?
Thanks for all the advice. To answer a few of the questions here goes. I'm 40 and my wife is 38 so I guess we're not old enough to own an Avalon. My wife test drove both the sport and the lux models and I drove the sport. A few days later she test drove the Avalon and I didn't even have to ask her which she liked best. I could tell by the grin on her face it was the Avalon. She stated if we get the CTS now then the next car she gets to pick. God forbid if the CTS has to go into the shop for anything. I can already hear the "I told you so's." I'm still hearing about all my stock market loses. I'll let everyone know how it turns out. We have to do something soon before October ends to get the 0% financing.
Yesterday (10/12) I was driving down Peachtree St. in Atlanta after leaving a friend's wedding. I'm near the FOX Theater and I see that they are having an event there so I look into the foyer to see if I could figure out what's going on. To my surprise, I see a Cadillac XLR sitting there!!! My jaw dropped to the floor. I immediately went and and pick up my best friend and told him about it on my way back to the FOX. He didn't belive me until we made it back there. We parked and walked up and sure enough... it was an XLR... black with charcoal interior.
There was a Cadillac rep there but he was busy talking to some 15 year old kid who was sitting in the driver's seat so I gave the car a walkaround and decided to sit in the passenger's seat. I put my hand in the opening for the door handle and held in the button and the door popped open. I thought, wow this is cool. I sat in the car and gave the interior a pretty good inspection. I can say first hand that this is a QUALITY interior!! The fit and finish was fantastic and the quality of materials is awesome. The Mercedes SL interior has nothing on this in terms of quality or ergonomics. The only thing that I can say about the Benz interior is that it is more traditional looking, which many may prefer.
So I decided to get in the drivers seat and try it on for size. I'm 6'4" (mostly legs) and I must say that this is a roomy interior and the seats are very comfortable. About this time the Cadillac rep came up to talk to me, so I thought this was my chance to grill him and see if he actually knows the product. He was able to answer every question I asked him correctly (from what I've read) so I was very impressed with him at this point.
What happened next really wowed me. I asked how the dash looks while illuminated and he said, "oh, just press the start button and you can see how everything works"!! So I held the start button in for about 2 seconds and the car started up!! The Northstar really sounds good in an enclosed place!!! The dash illumination is very impressive and the NAV screen is very bright. The HUD is also very bright... my best friend has a Pontiac GP with the HUD so I know from experience. I thought that the controlls for the radio and NAV were intuitive as I've never used a NAV system in a car before.
Then I asked the rep how the car looks with the top up. He said, oh just get out the car and take a look... I want you to see this process. So he sat in the car and press the button and the trunk opened and the top folded out and went into place. I'm not a big fan of the looks of "convertibles" with the top up, but to me this car looks equally impressive with the top up as it does down. He then lowered the top again. The process takes about 30 seconds.
A large crowd of of people had gathered around but the rep continued talking to me. I think he really enjoyed talking to someone who actually knew something about the car! He then opened the hood to let me see inside. I new the Northstar would be a fairly large engine but it looks very large in the XLR!
To top things off, I asked him if I was allowed to take pictures of the car, and he said by all means and he even said he would take a picture of me in the car!!
Now we were in a foyer or rotunda if you might and the lighting was very bad, but I was able to get some half decent pictures. I have them but I don't know how to post them. So if you'd like to see them you can email me at dexstrow@bellsouth.net and I will send them to you... or better yet, if someone know how to post them I'll email them to you.
Sorry for the long post!
Dex
PS The fit and finish of the exterior was very good also from what I could tell. The panel gaps were very consistant and very tight! I asked the rep if this car was hand built and he said yes... it's one of three out there now
I don't know how a fuel-filler hose would get twisted to be honest. There are three distinct assembly areas: body, paint, and final. During body assembly, the process is 100% automated, all humans do is observe and check each panel for fit with the special wedge (just like Henry Leland used to do). If the panel doesn't come together at the correct "STANDARD" then it's either fixed, or that car goes bye-bye...just as Leland used to do also.
The Paint process takes 9 hours, parts of it are done robotically, parts of it are done by humans. The area is totally clean...great filtration, and the humans wear the equivalent of a GM space suit while in the clean facility.
Final assembly is the place where there actually is a larger human presence. Although most of it is done by these "roaming" robots that essentially drive around a huge open floor plan, again there is no "line" per say at L/GR, humans check to make sure each step is completed to perfection, and "assist" the robots in tasks like putting in a windshield, etc. It's amazing, like for examle, the lug nuts for the wheels are put in and screwed down by a little robot, that looks like its from Star Wars, that drives up pops the lugs in all at once and then screws each of them down.
Overall, very few humans actually work at L/GR, and most of what humans do is supervisory of the robotics. There is no one final quality control check on the vehicles, as they are checked for precision to the STANDARD at every step of the process. It really harkens back to Leland's time, where he employed extremeley stringent manufacturing tolerances...thus the STANDARD OF THE WORLD...and now once again, each team member of L/GR always carries around a tool to check the fit of everything, to make sure it falls within the STANDARD.
But to be honest, I really have no idea how a fuel-filler hose would get kinked. I do not know...absolutely everything is tested before the vehicle leaves L/GR: StabiliTrak, Traction Control, weatherstripping, structural integrity, engine performance, transmission performance, etc., etc...I do not know.
So you like to drive a car and your wife likes a smooth, cushy ride down the highway and you have GM earnings to spend? Oh and a 0% finance deal is tempting? Take her to a Buick dealer and let her drive a loaded LeSabre Limited. It will price out about like a loaded Avalon, drive alot like an Avalon, even look alot like an Avalon. And with it's trusty old 3800 V6 engine it will be about as reliable as an Avalon. This way you can cash in your GM earnings, get a great deal, and your wife will enjoy the ride. Just be sure and spring for the Gran Touring suspension option. It probably won't turn the LeSabre into a CTS, but will make it handle reasonably for such a large car. I do feel for yu though, as good as the LeSabre or Avalon may be, they certainly will not drive like a CTS. I've driven a CTS twice and absolutely love how the car drives. As for resale, CTS resale is unknown at this point as the car is brand new. Cadillac is offering the 0% financing because the economy is slow and you may want to check and see if Toyota is because not long ago they too were offering low rate(3.9%) financing as well as hefty rebates on the Avalon. Toyota builds a pretty good product, but my experience with many of their dealers(as well as Honda) is that they seem to preach the resale thing over and over. Yes, resale is important but it makes me wonder if buyers of their cars are so eager to get rid of them in a few years that resale value is their number one priority. And while this may sound a but snobby, you should ask your wife if she would prefer to tell her friends that you guys just bought a new Toyota or a new Cadillac. Nothing like saying "lets take the Cadillac tonight dear." Good luck on your decision.
Still don't know who the primary driver of this car is. IMO, if you are the primary driver, then you should get the CTS. If your wife is, you should get the Avalon.
Other considerations.... how long until the "next time"? If it's only a few years, then you might consider letting her have the Avalon so that you can get the upgraded CTS when it's your turn.
Also, make sure you state that if she gets the Avalon now, the next car you get to pick... what's good for the goose is good for the gander!! Good Luck!!
Well, I know this car is ours now. My wife scratched it while we were washing it today. The pressure of the wash gun got the best of her, leaving an inch long hairline scratch on the left front fender near the mirror.
*sigh*
Well, I guess I'll still keep her (my wife, that is) :-)
On most dealer computer systems, stock numbers ending with "A" indicate that the vehicle was a trade in. Notice that the text in the ad doesn't say "new CTS", but that it "just arrived". I suspect it's a trade.
Also, stock numbers beginning with a "P" indicate it was a purchased car, usually from an auction or wholesaler.
I would suggest you go ahead and call, just to make sure. A large number of dealers use a software system that assigns the stock # of a trade as the same number of the car purchased with an "A" attached to it. Likewise, if someone trades their car in for that trade, it would receive that number with a "B" after it, etc.
It's usually more helpful to know about the "P" designation for purchased vehicles. After the salesman has given you the whole story about the little old lady who traded it in, had it serviced weekly, etc., etc., you can then casually slip in that it was amazing that he found all that information from the auction. A great ice-breaker to cut through the negotiating games. ; )
Good luck. Hope you enjoy your new (or pre-owned) CTS!
Just got back from Reno, round trip from SF Bay Area. Quick stats:
28.5 Avg MPG 59.1 Avg MPH
Ran most of the way in criuse-control mode set @ ~68 mph. Had set my expectations for lots of shifting once we hit the Sierras. Pleasantly surprised otherwise. Also had pre-set expectations the ponies would start gasping once we hit altitude (Donner Pass is ~7,300 FASL). Again, pleasantly surprised to the contrary. The V6 and five speed auto seemed to perform better than my 95 STS with the 4-speed auto. The STS definitely got gaspy at altitude and when you punched it, it took what seemed minutes to gain RPM. On the trip back I wanted more proof. At the summit I noted ~2300 RPM and about 50 MPH. Stabbed the gas up to 5500 RPM and got to 80 MPH in something like 4 or 5 seconds. Also impressive, the oil level didn't change. This trip would have burned a quart in STS easy. No rattles or sqweeks in spite of pavement chewed by snow chains. All-in-all a thoroughly enjoyable ride. I predict more road trips in my future.
Comments
I think the new engine in the CTS will be best in class along with the 3.5L in the G35.
I understandthat the car shifts well short of its redline and that it's 0-60 time is not commensurate with 400 hp.
GM is also one of the biggest manufacturers of automatics transmissions in the world, if not THE biggest. Their transmissions are frequently outsourced to other manufacturers. They have shown up in Rolls-Royces, Bentleys, Jaguars, Land Rovers and others. They may not be state of the art, but they are generally known to be durable and reliable. I can't imagine that autotransmissions at GM cost significantly more than manuals when you factor in the sheer volume that GM manufacturers.
The 5 series is a wonderful car, but it is getting a bit long in the tooth. The CTS has nothing to compete with the 540i yet, but the 525i/530i are worthy competitors. They also cost $10K more. If Cadillac has taken this marketing tack, they could have had a situation that Infiniti now enjoys by selling a credible car for a lot less. Instead, they went after the 3 series in comparisons which is a smaller car that weighs 300 lbs less. Despite the price premium, Cadillac will lose that fight. The G35 is holding its own primarily because of the over-the-top engine.
Actually I preferred the old system in the Catera where you dialed it in at the dashboard.
I dont think Cadillac has targeted any specific BMW model with the CTS and that is a good thing. They basically said here is our car, take it or leave it. They werent bending over backwards trying to show its a great value compared to BMW. None of BMWs other competitors do that and cadillac shouldnt either.
The EPA numbers for the I6 in the trailblazer seem somewhat better than for some other SUV's and I think the VVT is part of the reason.
it is a 4.2L engine vs. a 4.6L or 5.0L V8.
Top gears have been optimized for the available torque.
You won't see a .50 overdrive in a trailbalzer because there is not enough low end torque to pull it.
A Corvette can run a .50 all day and at low speeds
because the engine has a lot of low end torque. The car is relatively light and it won't be towing anything.
The lowest you will see on a passenger car with an auto is somewhere around a .70-.65 overdrive.
regarless of the axle ratio.
We will see our biggest mileage gains with the upcoming Displacement on Demand and lighter weight materials.
You are partly correct. There are two separate power cut-offs on the CTS, the "Retained Accessory Power" (Manual p. 2-27) and the "Exterior Lighting Battery Saver" (2-58). But both do the same thing 10 minutes after the ignition switch is turned off, that is, the RAP turns off accessories, in the case I described, the radio, and the ELBS turns of the exterior lights, except that it won't turn of the headlights if you turn them on after the ignition switch has been turned off. Which is what I theorize caused my dead battery (#863, #996). The only scenario I can think of that would have caused a dead battery, considering the battery cells tested OK, the Battery Saver is operative, and the problem hasn't recurred, is that I turned on the headlights after turning off the ignition, mistakenly thinking that the Auto Twilight Sentinel would turn them off. That's a good lesson to be aware of, BTW, that if you turn the headlights on when the ignition switch is off, you must turn them off manually.
To confuse matters further, there is another feature Caddy calls the "Battery Saver Active" (2-107) that is a warning message that battery voltage is too low.
Thanks,
Dave
Heart #1 -
The CTS is a great car to drive. The more I drive it, the more I like it. The engine does have a buzz to it. I like it. If you enjoy driving for the pleasure of it, the CTS is the car to buy. My wife likes her CTS more than any other car she's ever driven and she's driven a lot of different cars. $3000 and zero percent financing is money in your pocket!
Heart #2 -
Your wife wants an Avalon. The Avalon is a big Camry, which is not a bad car. Is it that much better than the CTS that you can afford to pass up the cash? Get your wife to test drive a CTS. The GM earnings and zero percent financing can free up some money to buy something else she may have wanted.
Toyota sales people will tell you whatever it takes to sell a car (so will Cadillac sales people). CTS's are moving off the lot as soon as they are delivered. Ask yourself, do you want a car that floats down the road?
Finally, don't listen to me or anyone else. Test drive a CTS and an Avalon on the same day or a day apart. Who is going to be the primary driver? Discuss the financing with your wife and decide which car to buy together.
Follow your heart.
Rich
Toyotas historically do have good resale. But as far as driving with a big grin on your face, it's no better than a nice Buick in my opinion. The CTS is faster, and handles a lot better. But that may not mean anything to your wife. The Toyota guy is wrong on one aspect: GM isn't doing 0%/2.9%/3.9% financing on the CTS because they aren't selling. The car is a best seller right now. Have her ask the dealership how long CTS's are staying on the lot. GM is going for market share on this car by offering incentives. They are having no trouble selling it right now.
If you still wanted to spend your GM dollars at Cadillac ($3000 is no small potatoes), a compromise vehicle might be a Seville (SLS or STS). The only problem is that its more expensive than the CTS (by a good $10-15K). But it's larger, quieter, very powerful and more luxurious. You can also get certified pre-owned ones for very good deals. But the Avalon will always beat the CTS on price. A very well equipped one won't cost you more than $35K. My CTS cost $39K and that was without the Nav system.
I'm lucky that my wife likes smaller faster cars and has fallen in love with this car as I have. She would have ordered a 5-speed if it weren't for the fact that my long limbs wouldn't allow it. What might better appeal to your wife are the safety features (safety cage, side curtain air bags, rigidity of the Sigma platform, Stabilitrak on the LuxSport and the all important OnStar.
Car buying is often a very emotional decision. Good luck on your powerss of persuasion. You're going to need it.
I managed to keep up (after giving away a car length lead) just to give the CTS a chance to see what it could do. I also had a weight penalty with my wife in the passenger seat, and I weigh 300 lbs myself. But my new black car held its own. And the experience got a big laugh from my wife.
That's why I enjoyed all of the challenges at traffic lights from Acuras , Lexus, and one Mercedes. After one day at the drag strip , I'm now on the prowl at traffic lights for any challengers. Quite a interesting experience to get a challenge in a Cadillac isn't it!
I'm trading in my '97 BMW 328 convertible. The Beamer has been great, but I need more interior room (6'-6'') and the convertible experience is getting a bit old...
I tried out a lot of cars - most without enough head room. The CTS (without a sunroof) fits well and I love the look and drivability of the car.
You didn't say who the primary driver of this car is. That's a big consideration.
You also have $3K in GM rebates... does your wife like jewelry? You can do a lot of bribin' with 3 grand.
Man, I'm glad I don't have this dilemma. My wife wanted a Seville (and got it) and likes the CTS, so I got no problem. Just waiting for the finances to work themselves out, which will take a few years.
The CTS is about the size of a 5 series BMW with more legroom. And it does have a real rear seat if you need to bring friends along, unlike the 325i. I doubt it will be any faster than your current ride, but it's well put together and the car begs to be tossed around. You will also kiss cowl shake goodbye since you are chucking a convertible. The BMW I-6 makes a nicer sound, but the 3.2L V6 in the CTS always likes to run.
My CTS took six weeks to deliver so you probably have another 3 weeks. What package (std, Lux or LuxSport) and colors did you get? And did you order from the old options list of the new one (Bose noise-cancelling radios, new colors)?
There are faster choices, but so many look so plain... the Infinity G35 has great acceleration, but looks like 90% of the cars in the class.
Acura and Lincoln LS have no headroom, BMW is too pricy, but the CTS is 'just right'! I'm happy to switch to an American (mostly) car too.
It's true the CTS looks like nothing on the road, save the Escalade. I see it getting head snaps regularly when I drive. You can't get that with most BMWs anymore. They are also truly expensive.
I can't blame BMW for getting whatever the market will bear, but it doesn't mean I have to pay for it. Most car magazine know that BMW is stretching it for cost justification, but they make such capable machines that most people just sigh and fork over more money.
Robotic "carts" drive all the CTS parts around L/GR to the exact place they need to be at the exact time...there is no "line" per say...just assembly locations where stuff comes together. Everything is very fluid and extremely efficient. I was literally amazed...cars go through a "perfect" paint process...two minute full water submergance...squeak and rattle tests...every part is checked for tightness and fit with a gap-fitter...every part is checked for quality as the car is assembled. It's really an amazing facility, all the people who work there seem really in to what they do.
The assembly process is described as a "ballet in perfect synchronization". It really is . . . wow, kudos to General Motors for building an assembly plant like that!! Wow...really cool.
http://www.greatimes.ru/cars/cadv.html
There was a Cadillac rep there but he was busy talking to some 15 year old kid who was sitting in the driver's seat so I gave the car a walkaround and decided to sit in the passenger's seat. I put my hand in the opening for the door handle and held in the button and the door popped open. I thought, wow this is cool. I sat in the car and gave the interior a pretty good inspection. I can say first hand that this is a QUALITY interior!! The fit and finish was fantastic and the quality of materials is awesome. The Mercedes SL interior has nothing on this in terms of quality or ergonomics. The only thing that I can say about the Benz interior is that it is more traditional looking, which many may prefer.
So I decided to get in the drivers seat and try it on for size. I'm 6'4" (mostly legs) and I must say that this is a roomy interior and the seats are very comfortable. About this time the Cadillac rep came up to talk to me, so I thought this was my chance to grill him and see if he actually knows the product. He was able to answer every question I asked him correctly (from what I've read) so I was very impressed with him at this point.
What happened next really wowed me. I asked how the dash looks while illuminated and he said, "oh, just press the start button and you can see how everything works"!! So I held the start button in for about 2 seconds and the car started up!! The Northstar really sounds good in an enclosed place!!! The dash illumination is very impressive and the NAV screen is very bright. The HUD is also very bright... my best friend has a Pontiac GP with the HUD so I know from experience. I thought that the controlls for the radio and NAV were intuitive as I've never used a NAV system in a car before.
Then I asked the rep how the car looks with the top up. He said, oh just get out the car and take a look... I want you to see this process. So he sat in the car and press the button and the trunk opened and the top folded out and went into place. I'm not a big fan of the looks of "convertibles" with the top up, but to me this car looks equally impressive with the top up as it does down. He then lowered the top again. The process takes about 30 seconds.
A large crowd of of people had gathered around but the rep continued talking to me. I think he really enjoyed talking to someone who actually knew something about the car! He then opened the hood to let me see inside. I new the Northstar would be a fairly large engine but it looks very large in the XLR!
To top things off, I asked him if I was allowed to take pictures of the car, and he said by all means and he even said he would take a picture of me in the car!!
Now we were in a foyer or rotunda if you might and the lighting was very bad, but I was able to get some half decent pictures. I have them but I don't know how to post them. So if you'd like to see them you can email me at dexstrow@bellsouth.net and I will send them to you... or better yet, if someone know how to post them I'll email them to you.
Sorry for the long post!
Dex
PS The fit and finish of the exterior was very good also from what I could tell. The panel gaps were very consistant and very tight! I asked the rep if this car was hand built and he said yes... it's one of three out there now
The Paint process takes 9 hours, parts of it are done robotically, parts of it are done by humans. The area is totally clean...great filtration, and the humans wear the equivalent of a GM space suit while in the clean facility.
Final assembly is the place where there actually is a larger human presence. Although most of it is done by these "roaming" robots that essentially drive around a huge open floor plan, again there is no "line" per say at L/GR, humans check to make sure each step is completed to perfection, and "assist" the robots in tasks like putting in a windshield, etc. It's amazing, like for examle, the lug nuts for the wheels are put in and screwed down by a little robot, that looks like its from Star Wars, that drives up pops the lugs in all at once and then screws each of them down.
Overall, very few humans actually work at L/GR, and most of what humans do is supervisory of the robotics. There is no one final quality control check on the vehicles, as they are checked for precision to the STANDARD at every step of the process. It really harkens back to Leland's time, where he employed extremeley stringent manufacturing tolerances...thus the STANDARD OF THE WORLD...and now once again, each team member of L/GR always carries around a tool to check the fit of everything, to make sure it falls within the STANDARD.
But to be honest, I really have no idea how a fuel-filler hose would get kinked. I do not know...absolutely everything is tested before the vehicle leaves L/GR: StabiliTrak, Traction Control, weatherstripping, structural integrity, engine performance, transmission performance, etc., etc...I do not know.
I think there are instructions on this site on how to do it.
Other considerations.... how long until the "next time"? If it's only a few years, then you might consider letting her have the Avalon so that you can get the upgraded CTS when it's your turn.
Also, make sure you state that if she gets the Avalon now, the next car you get to pick... what's good for the goose is good for the gander!! Good Luck!!
CTS
38915 MSRP
save 5000
you Pay 33915
"just Arrived"
stock # 210553A
*sigh*
Well, I guess I'll still keep her (my wife, that is) :-)
Also, stock numbers beginning with a "P" indicate it was a purchased car, usually from an auction or wholesaler.
Thanks b4z for finding my post and getting the answer.
I'm a Kenny Berstein fan myself and my real mentor was Big Daddy. LOL
It's usually more helpful to know about the "P" designation for purchased vehicles. After the salesman has given you the whole story about the little old lady who traded it in, had it serviced weekly, etc., etc., you can then casually slip in that it was amazing that he found all that information from the auction. A great ice-breaker to cut through the negotiating games. ; )
Good luck. Hope you enjoy your new (or pre-owned) CTS!
28.5 Avg MPG
59.1 Avg MPH
Ran most of the way in criuse-control mode set @ ~68 mph. Had set my expectations for lots of shifting once we hit the Sierras. Pleasantly surprised otherwise. Also had pre-set expectations the ponies would start gasping once we hit altitude (Donner Pass is ~7,300 FASL). Again, pleasantly surprised to the contrary. The V6 and five speed auto seemed to perform better than my 95 STS with the 4-speed auto. The STS definitely got gaspy at altitude and when you punched it, it took what seemed minutes to gain RPM. On the trip back I wanted more proof. At the summit I noted ~2300 RPM and about 50 MPH. Stabbed the gas up to 5500 RPM and got to 80 MPH in something like 4 or 5 seconds. Also impressive, the oil level didn't change. This trip would have burned a quart in STS easy. No rattles or sqweeks in spite of pavement chewed by snow chains. All-in-all a thoroughly enjoyable ride. I predict more road trips in my future.