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Cadillac CTS/CTS-V

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Comments

  • fjk57702fjk57702 Member Posts: 539
    The 4100 had some problems, but the 4.5 and 4.9 versions had corrected this problem and were no worse than other GM designs as far as I know. The problem with the 4100 was that a flaw in the design allowed the tolerances to "stack up" in a significant percentage (~25%) of the engines so that a coolant leak developed causing engines to fail. When this was finally understood the "fixed" engine was upgraded to 4.5 liters.
  • sevenfeet0sevenfeet0 Member Posts: 486
    Actually my experience with the 4.9L V8 in my old '91 Deville was quite positive. I had 130,000 pretty blissful miles before I totaled the car in a wreck with a city bus.

    If I had to rank Cadillac's worst engines since 1980, they would go in this order (best to worst)

    4.1L V6: Not a terrible engine, but probably not torque for the 5000 lb Devilles and Fleetwoods of the day.

    4.1L V8 "HT4100": Cadillac's first attempt at an alumminum engine had lots of reliability issues. Shades of the early '70s Chevy Vegas.

    5.7L V8 Diesel: These Oldsmobile engines were converted gasoline engines and were just plain awful. And they broke a lot too.

    And the worst engine was....ta da!

    6.0L V8-6-4 variable displacement engine. If the Porsche 911's rear engine design is "a terrible idea executed brilliantly", then the V8-6-4 is "a brilliant idea executed terribly". A concept 20 years ahead of its time, it was brought to market way too soon (only 10 months development) and had so many reliability problems in its first year that the engine was discontinued in Devilles and Fleetwoods after only the 1981 model year (it did manage to stick around in limos for another 4 years)

    If it means anything, all these engines were products of the 1980's where Cadillac produced its worst products in the company's history.
  • oldsman01oldsman01 Member Posts: 1,203
    The 4.9 liter OHV V8 the 92 Seville and Eldorado(as well as all FWD Caddies) was not troublesome like the earlier 4.1(HT 4100). With those, you were lucky to see 90,000 miles. Cadillac has certainly come a long way in the engine department. BTW, has anyone seen the XLR write up in Autoweek? All I can say is that the Northstar V8 looks absolutely wonderful in it's "proper" north-south RWD installation. Oh and the car itself is pretty good looking too. Caddy is pegging 0-60 in 5.9 seconds. I can't until we start seeing RWD sedans(i.e. STS) with the Northstar.

    3800, the 3800 is a good engine and despite it's "low tech" design and humble beginnings, it is really efficient despite it's size and power output. Pretty refined for an OHV engine as well, but this is an area where it's aging design shows. I don't think the 3800 would have been a good choice for the CTS, but as someone mentioned earlier, the Oldsmobile 3.5 liter DOHC engine would have been interesting. Mated to the CTS's 5 speed, I think it would not have the soft low end power problem the 3.2 does. And it certainly doesn't have the history of problems the Catera's 3.0 did. Nonetheless, this is all not worth debating because the CTS will be getting a totally new engine next yeat and that one will likely be far superior to the "shortstar.

    As for the next generation Malibu starting life with the 3100, I haven't read this anywhere yet but if that is so, it is a little disappointing. But when you look at the base(and most common) engine in it's competitors, it's not that off the mark. They should however, use the 3400 rather than the 3100 for their stop gap.
  • oldsman01oldsman01 Member Posts: 1,203
    Actually, the problem with the V8-6-4 was simply computer technology was not fast or reliable enough to make it work well in a car. The concept was very unique and is now being used by MB in their exclusive V-12s. GM and others are taking another look at it now. What alot of V8-6-4 owners did was disconnect the system and just enjoy the reliable V8 power the 368(6.0 liter) with 4bbl carb delivered. The 80s weren't a really good time for Cadillac or any US(and many imported) cars.
  • sevenfeet0sevenfeet0 Member Posts: 486
    Although the 3.5L V6 "Shortstar" certainly had its Cadillac roots, I agree that adapting it to the CTS probably wasn't in the cards.

    For one, the Shortstar was based a little too closely on the 32V Northstar. What I mean is that the angle of the engine pistons was at 90 degress. That's perfect for a V8 engine, but a V6 engine will need balance shafts in order to make it run smoothly. And yes, the 3.2L engine has the same issue with a weird engine angle, but this engine is used in many more applications than the Shortstar.

    Given the fact that the engine would need to see significant upgrades just to get it to pass emissions and its limited product use, it was an easy choice to kill.
  • sevenfeet0sevenfeet0 Member Posts: 486
    I had heard that the problem with the V8-6-4 was the solenoid actuators. They would get dirty and stick in place, leaving the engine operating with only 6 or 4 cylinders. That's not good for a 5000 lb vehicle.

    The 6.0L V8 engine it was based on was a great engine. I had a 1980 Coupe Deville in college and you couldn't break that engine. But the variable displacement idea wouldn't be really practical until now. Cadillac probably could have gotten it working eventually, but they got so much bad press on this engine that they just abandonned the idea outright.
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    Will be offered in GM trucks and SUV's next year.
    4 of the 8 cylinders will fire at cruising speed.
    Should pull the trucks up to 23-25 mpg hwy.

    This is a case of GM dropping the ball again.
    The thought of cruising on the interstate at 70mph with 4 people in my Impala and getting 40-45 mpg boggles the imagination.

    Thats a 700+ mile cruising range.
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    Version of the Malibu will have a huge backseat with adjustable seats. Unfortunately the Maxx will be shorter than the sedan and luggage capacity is lost.
    I think there is a pretty accurate rendering on cheersandgears.com.
    http://www.cheersandgears.com/
  • oldsman01oldsman01 Member Posts: 1,203
    I'm not sure that passing future emissions was the problem with the 3.5. It was a brand new engine just four years ago and at that time word was the 3800 would be phased out by 2001 because it would not pass future emissions. The 3.5 is a great engine, but it's 90 degree angle makes it rather large and thus limiting the applications in which it can be used. It is also expensive to build. I'd like to have seen development taken futher on that engine, but I can't blame GM for wanting to invest the money in design of an engine which will have "broader" appeal as far as applications and thus amortizing it's development and build costs more effectively.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Emissions was a major contributor to the demise of the 3.5L combined with the cost to build and low volume of Oldsmobile as the 3.5 was always intended to be exclusive to the division.

    Not sure if it would have worked with RWD, but it was mentioned in several articles a couple of years ago as the engine that would power the CTS so I'm guessing it would have been fine.
  • mcgreenxmcgreenx Member Posts: 179
    Well, I returned to the garage where I park during the workday and.....my 600 mile CTS was DEAD AS A DOORNAIL!!!! The remote wouldn't open the doors, the trunk wouldn't open, nada, zippo. This was a DEAD CTS. Absolutely inert. I unlocked the door and put the key in the ignition. Not only was it DEAD, it was so dead (how dead was it?) the key could not be removed from the ignition switch. BTW, I did NOT leave any device on, but even if I had, the system is supposed to shut down the electrics after a period of time. And this was after being away and having the car start up instantly when I returned after a week.

    I got a jump from the parking lot attendant and the engine roared into life without a moment's hesitation. It had been SO DEAD the computer lost its memory, e.g., the fuel used started from zero after the jump. OnStar diagnostics revealed nothing out of the ordinary, and the battery voltage rose to about 13.6 by the time I finished my 25 mile commute. The clock had stopped running about four and a half hours after I parked the car in the morning, and, FYI, after the battery jump, the clock immediately reset to noon (or midnight, as the case may be).

    So now I wait to see if the same thing will happen again tomorrow. Or at some future time. This is not a pleasant new-car experience.
  • calicadicalicadi Member Posts: 87
    Joined the choir invisible, eh? Use the search by message number feature near the top of the page and check out 553. Apparently there are a few bad batts out there. Maybe yours is one?

    To all... Has anyone tried out the Vogue Tyre dual exhaust or 18" rims? Please post your experience.

    Thanks!
  • mcgreenxmcgreenx Member Posts: 179
    Interesting post, about a possible defective battery. I had called the dealer's service dept. to see if they had heard of anything similar; the service manager thought it might be a bad battery and wants to test it. I hope it's something as simple as that.
  • eaton53eaton53 Member Posts: 356
    The CTS is one of those cars that makes wheels look smaller than they are.

    I saw the pic with the 18" Driv Mach5's on it... I'm now thinking 20's.
  • bingomanbingoman Member Posts: 373
    Are the tires solid rubber? lol
  • wwhite2wwhite2 Member Posts: 535
    You know you want the 24" chromie wheels with the custom multi colored wild tread pattern " tagging with each burn out "
  • necrosnecros Member Posts: 127
    So, I said I was going to do it, and I did it. Today I entered my MT CTS in the local SCCA Solo2 competition. About 250 drivers showed up in cars ranging from Honda Civics to Corvette Z06s.


    I had never raced before, so this was a completely new experience for me. I did a couple of ride-alongs to get a feel for it, one in a V8 Lincoln LS and one in a BMW 540i6. I must say, it feels A LOT faster when you're actually in the car than when you're watching the races from the sidelines.


    For those who don't know, Solo2 is a competition held in a wide-open space (in this case, a parking lot) with cones marking a course that twists, turns, and allows for some short bursts of speed. Handling is more important than raw power in a straight line. Top speeds for me were about 60 MPH, all of it in first or second gear.


    The CTS performed great, although my times weren't good, being a rookie driver. The winner of my class ran just under 60 seconds (in a Dodge Neon, so less!)


    My times:

    81.121 for the first run;

    73.378 for the second run; and

    73.133 for the third, and final, run.


    The car handled amazingly. My fiancee took pictures of me, and I checked them out earlier to see what was up. Although the back end slid all over the place (even with traction control engaged: I ran runs both ways), the car exhibited very little body roll. Some other cars were actually driving around turns on three wheels. Not only did no tires leave the pavement, the suspension, even fully loaded, kept the car surprisingly even through turns. It slaloms well, does hard turns well, and I even drifted it through a 180-degree turn at the mid-point of the course (this cost me time, so it's not recommended).


    And let me tell you, no car attracted as much attention. With as many people who came up and asked me about it, checked out the engine during tech inspection, thought it was beautiful, etc., Cadillac should sponsor me. They got a lot of good PR today. One woman even said she would call her father tonight and tell him to go buy a CTS. One guy commented "it's good to see a Cadillac racing." Some other guys were crawling around on the ground underneath it to check out the suspension. A few other guys (including an SCCA national champion) came over to admire it.


    The race announcers also seemed to get a kick out of it. From their inital comment of the car being something no one had ever seen in G Stock (my class) before, to the second and thrid runs, where there were giving commentary on the car's entire race, they seemed hooked. Normally, your car might get acknowledged at the end of your run, and maybe at the beginning, but they were actually following the car's progress through the whole course. They ended the day by agreeing that this car would be very interesting to watch in the future. They think it has a lot of potential.


    My next trip out will be to ckeck out some race tires, and wheels to mount them on. They can, supposedly, make a 5-10 second difference in times. This was the last race of the summer series, but there's talk of a winter series, and there's next year. I'm definitely looking forward to more CTS racing.


    Here's a couple of pics my fiancee took. If anyone's interested, I can post more.

    http://home.attbi.com/~madones/carturn.jpg

    http://home.attbi.com/~madones/cartime.jpg
    (I'm way on the right side, in the middle distance; I've just crossed the finish line, and the time you see is the one for my first run)

  • sonjaabsonjaab Member Posts: 1,057
    Wish I could do that with my Deville !
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    Did you pump your tires up to 40psi? That will make a huge difference.
    Some people go even higher to 44psi.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    A lot of autocrossers are running Kumho tires. They're not that expensive, either ($100 each). Check them out at tirerack.com.
  • sevenfeet0sevenfeet0 Member Posts: 486
    That's really neat and thanks for the pictures. I'm sure your times will decrease as your experience grows. You're comment was right in that you'll probably want a dedicated set of wheels and tires if you want to continue doing this. The only other thing that would help is that if you could defeat Stabilitrak, but I don't think you can turn it off in the CTS.

    And as for Cadillac sponsoring you, too bad that they've just gotten out of racing for the time being. But if sales continue to grow, hopefully Cadillac will return to racing soon.

    Speaking of sales, Cadillac is looking to surpass Mercedes this year as the number #3 sales volume luxury make. Cadillac might have a hard time holding onto that with the new CLK and E class bowing, but it's good to see that Cadillac's sales are increasing, rather than decreasing.
  • bingomanbingoman Member Posts: 373
    It's very easy to do.

    Open the glove compartment. Push and hold the TC (traction control) button for five seconds. Voila, no traction control, and no stabilitrak

    See pages 4-9 and 4-10 of your owners manual.

    Good luck on the track Necros.

    Now, if someone can explain to me, in simple terms that a kindergardener can understand, how to add a via to my navigation system route, I would be very grateful.

    Bingoman
  • eaton53eaton53 Member Posts: 356
    Hey, guys if money was no object... wait, money is always an object .
  • sevenfeet0sevenfeet0 Member Posts: 486
    Someone should have told Edmunds that. They got it wrong in their recent sport sedan comparison test.
  • necrosnecros Member Posts: 127
    Thanks for the comments, everyone. I have the base model CTS, so Stabilitrak is not an issue for me.


    I did pump my tires up to 40psi. I don't think I would have wanted to run the course with 30psi tires. And I actually bought some ultra high performance tires from TireRack last night. Seems no one actually makes DOT race tires in our size, so I got some of these: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Yokohama&tireModel=AVS+ES100


    As far as sponsorship goes, I was joking. Although I do have a call in to a Cadillac marketing guy about some other issues, so who knows. :)

  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    What do you expect? They couldn't find the battery on the LS (it's in the trunk). They also wondered one time why the LS V8 was 3.9L and the Stype was 4.0L, implying that Lincoln/Jag just made a mistake. When I explained that the LS had a 1mm shorter stroke than the Stype, accounting for the difference, their response was "What does stroke have to do with displacement?". Which is exactly the same as saying "What does the height of a glass have to do with how much water it holds?". Nuff said.
  • bingomanbingoman Member Posts: 373
    You might want to turn off traction control which is standard even in the base model. It is done with the same button in the glove compartment.
  • sevenfeet0sevenfeet0 Member Posts: 486
    That's amazing. If a manufacturer decides to move the battery, the usual suspects of the alternate place include:

    1. the trunk
    2. the rear seat
    3. the rear floor (for wagons)

    The fact they couldn't locate this is unbelievable. Makes me think I should be writing car reviews if it weren't for the fact that I can't fit in most fun and interesting automobiles. :-)
  • necrosnecros Member Posts: 127
    Actually, I have my traction control on/off programmed onto the SWC, just for racing. I did two runs without it and one with. Even though my fastest run was with, I think I will perform better without, in general. There seemed to be differing opinions about it at the track that day, though.
  • ajvdhajvdh Member Posts: 223
    I saw your car in the paddock, and I meant to come over and ask if you were the guy from the Edmunds board. Auto-X is a hoot, ain't it? You spend 6 hours standing around for 3 or 4 minutes of racing, and it's worth it. BTW, you beat a B stock Camaro SS - actually your times were close, but he killed 2 cones.

    Those shifter karts look like fun, but I don't think there's enough coffee in the world to get my reaction time up to where I could drive one.

    If you can stand to slum with us Bimmer folk, we're doing an Auto-x at Bandimere Oct. 20. At the last event we got 7 runs.
  • sweetjeldoradosweetjeldorado Member Posts: 94
    Do you think it is possible for you to post more pictures for us to see?

    J "CaddyLac"
  • serenoaserenoa Member Posts: 21
    I have been hearing rumors of a CTS coupe, maybe for 2004. Anyone have any info on this? I tried to email on the Caddy web site, but got a no comment until something is announced.
  • oldsman01oldsman01 Member Posts: 1,203
    Hello all, I was in Chicago for business over the weekend and just as I did last year, I opted to drive again. Saw a total of 3 CTSs on the trip, one while in Chi-town(more on that in minute). By comparison I also saw a total of 3 G35s while on the road. As for the CTSs, one was black, one was Sterling(we had a little cat and mouse going on I-65), and the one I saw in Chicago was on the I-90 tollway and it was the jade green. It looked like it had the ebony interior and in person, the color looks alot better than in the brochure. I would pick it over Cashmere or maybe Copper Sunburst, but it wouldn't be my first choice. Personally, I'd still like to see them offer the dark "Polo Green" they have had for years. BTW, saw several CTS billbord ads in the Chicago area. I can't wait until I get to someday take the trip while driving a CTS:)
  • baron87baron87 Member Posts: 93
    CTS Coupe, Convertible, Wagon, Hatchback, etc., etc., are due for release around 2007-2008 or something like that, when the next-generation, heavy modification of SIGMA is completed. Bob Lutz evidently said something to the effect of, "We want to dramatically expand the C-Series line over the next few years..." last January.

    I have seen quite a few G35s cruising around the near-west side/west loop of the city in recent days. I see at least one CTS every morning driving to the METRA train station in Hinsdale every morning. I have seen far more CTSs around, in the suburbs and city, but still not as many CTSs as one might expect. And yes, there are a LOT of CTS bilboards around...
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Just saw a dark red CTS for the first time today. I don't know if it was the color or just the way the sun was hitting it, but it was beautiful!
  • pmdriver2pmdriver2 Member Posts: 4
    You'll definitely want traction control and stability control off for auto crossing. Ideally with practice you will be giving the car inputs that are smooth enough that neither system would activate, but until then, the brake/engine intervention will kill your times. The systems are very effective for for road courses and normal driving, but the nature of auto crossing makes them cumbersome. Good luck!
  • sevenfeet0sevenfeet0 Member Posts: 486
    Well, I've been told my CTS finally arrives from manufacturing today! That's the good news. The bad news is that I'm travelling on business and can't pick it up! Grrrrrr! :-)

    Well, either Friday or Saturday I'm gonna have a hell of a grin on my face. In the meantime, my car awaits patiently for its owner at the dealership.
  • necrosnecros Member Posts: 127
    ajvdh: Yeah, you should have come over and said hi! I remember them mentioning the BMW auto-X, but I was unsure if it was only for BMW dirvers or not. If not, I'd love to! Can you provide me some more details? I'll check out the BMWCCA page, too.

    sweetjeldorado: I'll post some more tonight. They're all on my home computer, and I'm at work. I have some pretty decent ones of the CTS cornering, so you can see how it performs.

    pmdriver2: Thanks for the advice. I'll drive without it, since the advice is coming straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak.

    sevenfeet0: Congratulations! The wait is unbearable, but completely worth it.
  • necrosnecros Member Posts: 127
    Here you go:

    http://home.attbi.com/~madones/cargrid.jpg (I'm the guy in the middle)

    http://home.attbi.com/~madones/carstart.jpg

    http://home.attbi.com/~madones/carturn2.jpg

    http://home.attbi.com/~madones/carturn3.jpg

    http://home.attbi.com/~madones/carturn4.jpg

    Remember that even though it looks like the car isn't moving, I'm going 40-50 MPH in most of these shots (except the grid one, of course. :)).
  • robh3robh3 Member Posts: 157
    What's the status on your Caddy website?
  • baron87baron87 Member Posts: 93
    My web endeavor has hit a few speed bumps, but I hope to get it back on track and online around the end of Q1 2003 or in Q2 2003. It probably would not be at its fullest materialization until the summer of 2003, when I will have more time on my hands. Just at this point in time, I have no time at all trying to balance my social life with rigorous academic demands (plus Model U.N. and other time consuming affairs), and trying to run a website on top of my existing life would be nearly impossible.

    At any rate, at some point over the next few years, I hope to really have built-up a solid Cadillac owner's/enthusiast's global network type of thing. So yes, I hope to launch it in a few months, and realistically won't have it operating at "full steam" for an additional few months. Realistically, it's pretty far back in my to-do list, nevertheless, it is there.

    No CTS sightings today...arghh...haha. No G35s either, quite a surprise.

    (and i must say, one of the motivations for the website to begin with, was that "running my own company" would be an absolutely fantastic thing to put on college apps. sad to say that, but it's a pretty cut-throat world out there, and just having good/excellent ACT/SAT scores and an A- GPA isn't going to cut it for most highly-selective colleges.)
  • cadman88cadman88 Member Posts: 75
    So what all is going to be on your website? How will it compare to cheersandgears (my name there is Northstar)? I could maybe help you in the summer on it or something but right now I'm too busy with school also. What type of help do you need? If any, I don't know anything about making a website but I'm happy to try to help you out with any info ect. that you might want.

    Brian
  • baron87baron87 Member Posts: 93
    I can't really be saying this here, but considering the site doesn't exist yet, I guess I can.

    The main help I will need once it is operating is: someone in charge of the technical/design aspect (me), an administrative team (including advertising sales, and other finance aspects), writers/editorial team, legal counsel, and graphics people. As you can see, I am talking about a fairly large staff here. This is why, the full vision cannot be realized for a few years, and will have to begin as a one-man show as more volunteers pitch-in, until revenue reaches a point where salaried positions become an option....

    And for those of you who don't think you can, for the beginning at least, pull a professional, all volunteer editorial team out of thin air, you definitely can (we did it at C&G, and I'm sure it can be duplicated).

    In all actuality, I tend not to think of this as a "web only" thing, though. In my true vision it will be a supplementary thing to GM and the normal Cadillac dealer network. I can't go into specifics, or mention any more than that without violating the TH rules.

    Any questions, suggestions, offers of help, whatever: continue the conversation via e-mail.

    And that's all I am allowed to say, and will say for the time being...
  • richw5richw5 Member Posts: 152
    Necos - Congratulations!

    You took action to prove what I believe most of us know, the CTS is a drivers car. It was fun, wasn't it? I have no doubt, all of the regulars on the board are proud of your accomplishment and wish they were there to see it (or to drive it). Your pic's are great, be sure to take more at your next event.

    Dindak -
    Saw my first "Red CTS" about two weeks ago. Since I had four Red Caddy's in a row, I must say Red Rules. Just don't tell my wife that I like any color other than her Diamond White.

    Sevenfeet0 -
    Necros is right, the wait is worth it. We'll all be waiting to hear from you next week.

    Took the CTS out to the country one night this week. I got caught behind a Camry driver driving 5 to 10 mph below the limit. First time I hit a passing zone, I kicked it down and went around him like he was standing still. It seemed to tick him off and he came after me. Needless to say, when I hit 95, the Camry was left in the dust.

    The CTS doesn't have the horsepower that my Corvette had, but there is a feeling I can't explain. It's a feeling of being in control, driving a car that was engineered for speed, handing and fun. Now if someone could tell me how to get the navigation system to work properly, I'd really be happy.

    Rich
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Our current Alero and our previous 98 Grand Prix were dark ruby red also. Needless to say we like the color a lot also. Seeing the CTS in ruby red made my head snap hard.
  • sweetjeldoradosweetjeldorado Member Posts: 94
    Thanks for the pics.


    Also, what do you and others think about this here?


    http://media.gm.com/news/releases/021002_bondurant.html


    J "CaddyLac"

  • sweetjeldoradosweetjeldorado Member Posts: 94
    Cadillac has sold 3,277 CTS for the month of September. YTD totals are 24,332.

    J "CaddyLac"
  • ajvdhajvdh Member Posts: 223
    I know the Bimmer event is open to non-BMW cars, but I'm not sure about the club membership thing. You should be able to find a contact person who can clarify this on the web site:


    http://www.rmcbmwcca.org/autocross.htm


    They lump all the non-BMW's into either a "street" or "race" class, so you'd be classed with a rather interesting spectrum of vehicles - everything from a Civic to an IS00.

  • richw5richw5 Member Posts: 152
    I had a chance to attend Bondurant's school the first year he was open. There were several options (one day, three days or more) and I took the one day course, I believe it was called "defensive driving". Really enjoyed it. It's nice to see his affiliation with Cadillac and Corvette. Thanks again for the news release.

    Necros - Sorry for the misspelling of your ID. Sometimes I type faster than I think.

    Rich
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