Having fun with my CTS The 5 spd manual is really slick ....it's cool that I can beam data from my Palm to the Navigation system . Bought 100 minutes for the onstar phone . Now I have to remember to ALWAYS keep eyes on road and not the nav screen
Lexus has been on top in sales for years now from what I've read.. I suppose everyones measure of what makes one brand the best is different. For me the fact that I can get a 2000 STS with 36,000 miles on it for ~$32K Canadian or cheaper than a well equpped new Camry v6 eliminates Cadillac right now from "best of the best" for me. Wouldn't stop me from considering the CTS however.
Lexus and MB have been battling it out for the top sales position since 2000. Cadillac had been the top for years, but their lack of an SUV in the latter part of the 90s hurt their total sales as this is where the others gained momentum. The Deville still sells at a rate of over 100,000 annually and if you count cars only(not the SUVs) Cadillac is still the best selling luxury CAR brand. But who cares anyway? Best seller status does absolutely nothing for me in the way of impressing me about a car. In fact, I prefer cars that sell in smaller numbers.
"The Deville still sells at a rate of over 100,000 annually and if you count cars only(not the SUVs)"
I am afraid this is no longer true. The Deville sold about 95,000 in 2001 and 84,000 in 2002. In January Cadillac sold less than 6,000 Devilles. In comparison, the new Mercedes E-Class is doing quite well, quickly approaching 6,000 units a month. Add to Cadillac sales of the Seville, about 2,000. Add to Mercedes sales of the S-Class, SL-class, and CLK, SLK (all start for more than $40,000. You will see Cadillac might not be the luxury car leader anymore. That would have been true of Cadillac still sold Devilles in a pace of over 100,000 a year (9,000 a month). The fact that the SRX will be on sale soon is not helping either. I expect that the SRX will be steal a lot of sales from the Deville. As of now, the Deville does not have any real compeition. But how do kill a Deville other than giving Cadillac diehards a vehicle that carries the 'Large Cadillac' reputation, costs just as much, and at the same time is more versatile, spacious, and probably performs better and is more fun to drive?
MB's are revered by "some" in Germany, but most can't (or won't) afford the type of car sent to the U.S. of A. One can purchase a Euro-spec or a US-spec auto while in Europe. Euro-spec autos are not allowed to be shipped to the U.S. of A. because they are made without all the safety features. If you have one converted, it will cost you a bundle, anywhere from 10-15K. I have two friends that purchased classic MB's (late 60's models) and just had to bring them back.
My main point was that the price is jacked so high in the US market, that one could (if he truely wanted to save money) fly to Germany purchase a car, send it back and save about 9K, and have a vacation at the same time. If you qualify for VAT priviledges, you can blow off the largest portion of the taxes, and ship the car for about $750-$1000 to any US port.
I my opinion, Cadillac's are too large for Germany. Especially for parking. It would always take at least two spaces to park all Cadillac's of current size. I had a Volvo when I lived there, which was 186", and after the first parking ticket (for taking two spaces) of 40-DM ($29.50 at the time), I used public trasportation for everything but driving to work. All tickets double (without your permission) every seven days in Germany. So $29.50 balloons to $118 in just two weeks. I do travel to Germany once or twice a year for a few days because I miss the friends and food.
And lastly, of course I think a hearse is prestigious, its the car that many take their last ride in. If you look up the history of the hearse, you will find that Cadillac was chosen back in the earlier part of the 20th century so that people could go out in sytle. Now really, how would it look if they carted people off in the back of a cargo van? I rest my case. No pon intended.
We're talking total sales... Cadillac sold over 40K Escalades and EXT's last year, all over $40K.
But, it's also quite possible that the leader in over $40K sales is.... Chevrolet. There's no way to tell how many over $40K Tahoes got sold, but I'm sure it's a heck of a lot.
I doubt that the SRX (or the XLR for that matter) will steal Deville sales. These are two completely different markets. Cadillac is trying to go after Lexus RX330, Acura MDX, Infiniti FX35/45 and Volvo XC90 buyers. Usually these people have families with children, often under the age of 12 who has a high median income. Deville buyers just don't fit that profile.
And speaking of the Deville, I would kill the current car at its current price point and reintroduce the vehicle with at least a base price of a Lexus LS 430. You can sacrifice some of your unit sales for profit margin and regained prestige for a superior product. Buyers who want something cheaper can go for the CTS or the upcoming STS. If they really want a large American luxury car from GM, the Buick Park Avenue should fill in the void at the current Deville's price point.
When the deville came out a few years ago I was shocked at how little legroom it had. My knee was in the dashboard. With my Intrigue there was a good 2-3 inches of room. Which meant i could pull the seat up if I had passengers in the back. No luck with the deville or the Aurora for that matter. Gm is the only company I know that can build cars with longer wheelbases that have less legroom than the cars they are replacing.
The price is "jacked" here on MB and BMWs because we get the best models and best equipment. You aren't going to get a U.S. spec 530i for 9K off just by buying it in Germany!
Lastly you're about the only one that think a hearse is prestigous. I don't know anyone that wants to ride in one anytime soon. I don't think any brand anywhere cares one bit about Cadillac having that dubious honor. We had some gangsters here (Chicago) buried in Cadillacs, they were without a doubt the tackiest things on wheels. Don't you see thats part of Cadillac's image problem? Nobody buying a CTS wants their car associated with some tacky overdone hearse.
Yes Cadillac is on their way back but they aren't even halfway there yet. One success (CTS) does not a re-made brand make.
eaton53,
Mercedes leads the world in luxury car sales and surely does in the true luxury class say over 50K of which Cadillac doesn't even compete. Nobody is paying sticker for high end STS and DTSs. Between the E, SL, S and CL cars nobody opens up more wallets from 50K on up, nobody...not Porsche, Ferrari, BMW, Audi, Jaguar or anyone else.
"I think the investment in Cadillac has been huge and at the volumes they are talking about, there is no way they're going to make [them]," added Padilla. "But I've got to tell you thinking about it and doing it are two different things," Padilla said.
Padilla, Lincoln's chief, talks about Caddy plans to export to Europe. Well, should Caddy pursue the European market? Is it a risk worth taking? Full article can be found at carconnection BTW.
I'd make a Lincoln out of new XJ8, another out of Aston Martin Vantage. All of the sudden STS & XLR have American competition.
The Brits would scream bloody murder, but who cares! They'd be dead already without Ford. And they, especially AM, don't sell enough to ever make good on investments. I mean, when was the last time you saw an AM dealership?
Those things make imminent sense, so why isn't Ford doing it? Contrary to popular belief, Ford is sitting on a pile of cash, the result of their record profits in the late 90's.
It makes no sense whatsoever for GM to consider selling the current Cadillac product line in Europe. Nothing but the CTS is even viable in size, and the CTS offers no engine choices, and specifically not a diesel. Without a decent turbodiesel you take half your potential buyers off the table at the start, without something smaller than the 3.2/3.6L V6 you lose another 60%.
Ford now appears to have given up on Lincoln, they're talking about platform-standardization with Ford and keeping prices down, seems to me they're pushing Lincoln down where Mercury should be. There won't be any interesting Lincolns, and there won't be market space for Mercury. GM should be very pleased, it sounds like Lincoln is going to be Town Cars and FWD stuff (and every possible variety of SUV, as the market starts to dissipate) for the next ten years.
As for pricing - in Germany, and minus the rather steep VAT, the 5-series BMW covers a price range of around $25K-60K.
You can't buy US-market BMWs in Europe except through the diplo/expat program, but you can buy US-market BMWs through US dealers via the European Delivery program.
Order your car, they build it, you fly over to Munich and pick it up, drive it around for anywhere from 10 minutes to 6 months, drop it off at one of about fifteen shipping agents, 4-8 weeks later your car shows up at your local dealer Stateside. MSRP (starting point for negotiation) for Euro Delivery is 7% under US dealer-lot MSRP for everything except the M cars - includes all shipping, zero-deductible insurance, roadside assistance in Europe, etc.
Good points: you get to drive a really nice car on vacation, you get to go find unrestricted sections of Autobahn, maybe you get to the Nordschleife. You get your car for less money, and depending on what state you're in and how long the car's out of the US it may be treated as a used car for tax/license fee purposes once it gets here.
Bad points: You have to arrange payment in full for the car at the time it's built (they don't want you backing out) so for this and other reasons many finance/lease firms don't like to do Euro Delivery. You have to take the trip (awww), you have to wait 1-2 months for the car to get to the US afterward, if you lease the insurance won't cover most former-East-Bloc countries (where expensive new cars tend to disappear into shipping containers very quickly.) Depending on your position on the current political squabbles you may not want to contribute to the German economy right now.
Euro Delivery is a very compelling way to buy a car - we've done it twice now. Benz, Volvo, Saab, Porsche, and I think Ferrari will also do it. Audi, oddly, does not at this time, and neither does Jaguar (maybe they're terrified of turning Americans loose at Coventry in the RHD UK in a LHD Jag...)
If you have VAT (value added tax) priviledges and curtain other priviledges, (which I do) you can reduce the total cost of a car listed at 47.5K by as much as 28%. As you may well know, in Germany the taxes are included in the list price of everything sold there.
They are assessed at about 14% at my last account. May be a little higher now, as I haven't purchased a high dollar item there for some time now. The VAT authorities will drop the 14% automatically if you have VAT priviledges. The other tax hurdles are though the U.S. Those who have tax exempt status (I'm one of those), who purchase through a U.S. exchange system (duty free) can avoid all but the state tax assessed when the vehicle is registered. You may also have to pay the cost of shipping the vehicle to the U.S. if you can't cut a deal.
Now, if I wanted a MB or BMW, that's what I would do, but I don't want either one, so for me it's a mute point. The only European car that I would have is a Volvo. The only reason I don't have a Volvo now is because service really sucks to high heaven at the "ONE" local dealer in my area.
I have a few friends in the mortuary business, and one has a saying "a hearse is only a hearse from the outside". That's pretty deep, if you think about it. I still think they're pretty cool.
Thanks for the interesting post. The CTS is now where the Lincoln LS was three years ago, minus the future financial implosion (we hope). Many of us bought into the initial LS concept, which was a bona fide competitor to BMW, including the manual and plans for a diesel. Well, Jac & the boys decided Volvo and Jag could carry the banner, and the LS went in the toilet as far as Europe was concerned. I'd like to think the CTS won't follow.
Competing in Europe (successfully, one hopes) over a period of years will win serious car enthusaists' attention. I've been poo-poohed numerous times on for saying so, but think about it: If an American sedan can really run with the fast dogs on the Autobahn, I'll stand in line for one. I think others would as well.
The German annual inspections are brutal, and cars that will run at 100- 120 mph for hours are routine over there. I've rented cars in Germany and been interested to note Chrysler minivans passing me as I drive my Audi at 105 mph.
The guys on the LS boards will tell you that Lincoln was tuning their car in Europe before CTS could spell the concept. . .which is true, by the way. However, Lincoln has let the European cachet slip away, and I'd hate to see GM do the same.
You're right -- the only Cadillac that has a prayer in Europe is the CTS. Go for it!
Just thought you'd like to know. Because of the safety and tree enthusiasts, the Autobahn will soon have speed limits. They feel as though the faster driving cars are producing more exhaust which is killing the Black Forest. And due to an increased in traffic fatalities, German authorities have already begun testing the new flexible speed limit, (80-120 km/h) which is controlled from a central location.
Mostly used in the big city areas, it allows them to change the speed limit to meet the current weather and traffic conditions. This has been going on for about two years now. Plans are to extend this program throughtout the entire Autobahn system because it has already reduced the number of fatal accidents by 30%. They didn't say what the speed limit would be in the out lying areas. This will probably happen in a year or so.
It will be interesting to see how many drivers obey the speed limits, and then again law inforcement is much stricter there, and people may adapt quickly.
Perhaps through the novelty of it all, but we all know what happens when the novelty wears off. I think thses two cars are far to large for European roads and parking spaces. The U.S probably wouldn't be allowed to ship enough to make a difference anyway, as space is a premium.
As we in the U.S. only allow a curtain volume of outside merchandise to enter the country, the others surely have restrictions as well. And becuase of their size, it has to be much tighter.
"Put the price up where there isn't competition and you get the numbers you want."
Exactly, thats what Cadillac does, make the numbers fit. There are some here that will tell you that not even 40K is a true "luxury" car. Maybach, I bet will outsell all the rest in the 250K plus bracket, at least in the first 2 years.
"At $40K, everyone's competing. Cadillac is one the top dogs, if not the top dog at that price."
Exactly! They aren't #1 but they're in the running.
thebug,
Does everyone have those privilages? If they did MB, BMW and Audi dealers here would be only used for delivery purposes. I think your situation is unique.
If I'm about to die, I'd want a RR. When the time comes, they just take out the grille and use it as my tombstone!
If Caddy wants to compete in the long term, it has to be in Europe. I agree lack of engine choices is a serious handicap. Politically speaking, this is probably the worst time to start the venture!
I'd love to hear from some Northeasterners how their CTS performed in the snow (and whether it was equipped with just traction control or traction control plus stabilitrack). Snow performance is one of my lingering concerns with purchasing a CTS (I, too, live in the Northeast).
I saw a different looking CTS today. I think it had "VXLI" or "VLXI" in letters on the lower right deck lid. It also had an agressive looking front end, with horizontal metal trim pieces over the grille and fog lamps. Is this a custom job or something new?
The DEW98 (development codename for the Lincoln LS) was not developed specifically, or even primarily, for the US market. It was intended to replace the Ford Granada/Scorpio, Ford's exec-car offering in Europe (remember the Merkur Scorpio of the late '80s? Same car with a hideous facelift and a Cosworth-headed DOHC 2.9 V6. The Granada was the trunk version.) The DEW98/LS spent a *long* time in development.
So long, in fact, that in the meantime Ford went out and bought Jaguar (and proceeded to build the DEW98-based S-Type) and then bought Volvo.
Ah well...the DEW98/LS (and the CTS) are, in concept, higher-end designs than anything Volvo does, and in the future Volvos will be on Ford platforms anyway.
The Autobahn has had speed limits on much of it for a while, in fact for some reason they like to throw 100-110kph limits on long downhill stretches apparently for no other reason than to test drivers' patience.
Interesting that Italy just announced that in the interest of safety they were RAISING some Autostrada speed limits from 130kph (81mph) to 150kph (93mph.) Bravo!
Cadillac, for the time being, should ignore Europe as an export market for the following reasons: 1. It needs to concentrate on making the best possible cars it can in the U.S. market, its home market, which is still the richest in the world. 2. Only after it has perfected a car in its home market, assuming that size and engines are appropriate should it consider Europe. Many of the cars exported to America and even some of those built here by foreign brands were field tested for years in their home markets. You risk a lot to your image when your field test a brand new model in an export market. 3. Cadillac should stop listening to the critics who want instant parity with platforms that have been refined over many years. Instead of counting just on new whiz-bang models, they should also stick to their platform (whatever it happens to be, if its a good one)and refine it until it is worthy of the U.S. market and then worry about exports. It takes years of refinement to make anything the best, there are seldom any shortcuts, especially when you have quality competitors who have a head start on long term refinement. 4. Exporters tend to export their best which often is better than or competitive with rivals in their target export market. Technical excellence, scarcity, prestige, the fact that it is an exotic foreign brand will make it easier to charge premium prices and withstand the hostile reaction from foreign rivals. 5. If they can't sell a lot of cars here with all the advantages of a home market, they are unlikely to be able to sell enough in Europe where all the odds are against them to stay in business. The export market is a possible bonus, which might (or might not) develop, but only after much success on the home front first.
I think this was a CTS with aftermarket components. Go to www.vogue-tyre.com.
Yep, that was it. It looked sharp. I like the wheels better than the factory wheels, but I wasn't too wild about the gold-plated crest in the middle of them.
After sitting in a number of European and Japanese luxury sedans, I have to say that I am still impressed with the CTS. It's just a beautiful and bold car in my eyes and it was attracting just as much attention as the SUVs. Didn't hear any negative comments at all, people generally like the car. Also noticed a lot of younger lookers which is all good also.
Congrats to necros on his 3rd place finish in the SCCA event. I only did a quick scan but it looks like you're still the only CTS in the event.
Unfortunately for me, Bondurant can't guaranty the CTS's will be prepped in time for my March vacay, so I'll resched for the fall. Can't swing it in the summer. Wife still razzin' me for schlepping her out to Hoover Dam during a Vegas vacay in 120 degree heat. This means I'll hold off competitive entries for a while. May try some rallys.
More competitive data. May have found a good wheel combo. The OZ Supperleggeras are only 18#, same as BBS RC's, and come in our size. The rep at Tirerack quoted a 32# weight for the Goodyear Eagle F1's. That sounds excessive. I wonder if he quoted mounted.. I asked for just the rubber weight. I'll confirm.
In competition of other sorts... the recent postings on Cadillac world appeal, sales, etc., and the compros as to who is "top dog", especially regards German cars... had me wondering if the Iraq/UN situation will lead to a down-turn in German car sales. I'm already reading of boycotts of French products. I wonder if "professional" car reviewers will lessen their predisposition to things Teutonic.
Personally, with the exception of a brief fling with an MGB (which was a POS but a blast to drive), I've always bought American cars because a) they were better than, or at worst as good as, anything else out there and b)I understood and could work on them. (C'mon needle bearing gear clusters and side draft carbs? what up?.. that's just me being parochial) ;-)
I like this car . what I have noticed so far for negs Fuel door doesnt lock why ? the back end of the console as viewed from the back seat does look unfinished . the missing temp gauge .... many positives many many many
I think anyone (American) can have the VAT waived, through a dealer purchase, but not everyone is privy to the duty free U.S. exchange system. There's a large American comminity in Kaiserslautern, Germany (pop. 100K+), where even the Germans use American money on a regular basis, and it has several car dealerships. They all speak very good English, and do a lot of deals of this type with tourist, those working there on contracts, and military personnel.
When living there, I had friends who had family come over to visit and they purchased new U.S. spec BMW's or MB's, for shipment back to the U.S. I know they didn't have duty free priviledges, but did take advantage of the VAT deduction. The VAT deduction alone saves a bundle, and makes it worth the trip. The selections at these dealers were pretty good, and I believe you could order with the proper (large) down payment.
If you have a good bank, you can prearrange financing for a purchase of a curtain amount. As my bank did for me one year when I wasn't sure what kind of car I was going to by, they simply approved me for a specified amount, and said keep it within that amount and you're covered. Today with electronic transfer systems this can be accomplished quite easily, anywhere in the world.
Ok thanks. Wasn't familiar with such a thing. So lets say you were buying a car like say a 530i for around 50K, what would that work out to if you were buying one?
calicadi, thanks. If I hadn't hit the last cone on the last run, I would have been 7 thousands out of second place. Next time will be better, because I'll have some stickier rubber to use. We are going to see a Cadillac win G Stock at least one this summer! Also, keep us informed about your search for wheels. If the OZ Supers do in fact fit our cars, I may want some. Also, if you haven't already looked into it, I believe Nitto makes performance tires in some of our sizes.
pmdriver, if you're out there, I finally followed your recommendation and ran with the stock tire pressure this past weekend. I did much better, but I'm not sure if it was a combo of the pressure or that I'm getting better. But I will continue with th stock tire pressure. Thanks for the advice!
Just had the CTS in for its 7500 mile oil change and tire rotation. But the car has a strange rattle which only comes from the rear end, and only when the car is cold (i.e., the first few minutes of driving). The rattle appears when you go over bumps and the like, and then just disappears. It's been there since delivery (Oct 1), but my wife and I are only now doing something about it since we both realized the symptoms and that it didn't seem to be something in the trunk.
....is to leave well enough alone provided they go away by themselves and the car exhibits no other abnormalities. This is especially true when the car is cold; it may be due to body vibrations at certain temps. You may be asking for trouble if (some)dealers try to mess with it.
A 50K list price would be reduced to about 36-37K, if purchased through the duty free exchange, and 41-42K if purchased without duty free priviledges. You should be able to get phone numbers for Kaisenslauter dealers from any local BMW dealer. Then call them to negotiate a deal.
I don't know about now, but before Ford merged with Volvo, Volvo would wine and dine you, take you to the factory (in Swenden) so you could watch them make your car, bring you back to Germany, and then ship the car to a place of your choice. So many would wait until their contract/tour was complete and then order a car and meet it in the States. I'm not sure but BMW may offer a similar adventure.
You asked earlier if this was a unique situation? No it's not, all U.S. Ambassadors and their dependents are entitled to these prviledges. Although many don't take avantage (probably because they don't know, or don't need to), the number of people authorized to do this is in the thousands. More often, these priviledges are exercised with other high dollar purchases.
wwhite2, if I get the CTS it will be my primary car, so a little snow/salt exposure is inevitable, I'm afraid.
I was reading some of the user reviews for the CTS at MSN's site and was surprised how many people complained about the gas cap not locking. What am I missing? Why is that such a big deal?
Tirerack confirms... the Goodyear F1 Eagles in 245/35ZR19 are 38#. Combined with the OZ Supperleggera rims @ 18#, that's 56# per wheel. Still seems weighty. I'm gonna do somemore checking.
Locking gas door stops pranksters .Why risk that disaster ? You can always get a set of 4 snow tires with inexpensive wheel covers ... you get great traction and keep your nice wheels nice
Comments
For me the fact that I can get a 2000 STS with 36,000 miles on it for ~$32K Canadian or cheaper than a well equpped new Camry v6 eliminates Cadillac right now from "best of the best" for me. Wouldn't stop me from considering the CTS however.
I am afraid this is no longer true. The Deville sold about 95,000 in 2001 and 84,000 in 2002. In January Cadillac sold less than 6,000 Devilles. In comparison, the new Mercedes E-Class is doing quite well, quickly approaching 6,000 units a month. Add to Cadillac sales of the Seville, about 2,000. Add to Mercedes sales of the S-Class, SL-class, and CLK, SLK (all start for more than $40,000. You will see Cadillac might not be the luxury car leader anymore. That would have been true of Cadillac still sold Devilles in a pace of over 100,000 a year (9,000 a month).
The fact that the SRX will be on sale soon is not helping either. I expect that the SRX will be steal a lot of sales from the Deville. As of now, the Deville does not have any real compeition. But how do kill a Deville other than giving Cadillac diehards a vehicle that carries the 'Large Cadillac' reputation, costs just as much, and at the same time is more versatile, spacious, and probably performs better and is more fun to drive?
thebug...
thebug...
My main point was that the price is jacked so high in the US market, that one could (if he truely wanted to save money) fly to Germany purchase a car, send it back and save about 9K, and have a vacation at the same time. If you qualify for VAT priviledges, you can blow off the largest portion of the taxes, and ship the car for about $750-$1000 to any US port.
I my opinion, Cadillac's are too large for Germany. Especially for parking. It would always take at least two spaces to park all Cadillac's of current size. I had a Volvo when I lived there, which was 186", and after the first parking ticket (for taking two spaces) of 40-DM ($29.50 at the time), I used public trasportation for everything but driving to work. All tickets double (without your permission) every seven days in Germany. So $29.50 balloons to $118 in just two weeks. I do travel to Germany once or twice a year for a few days because I miss the friends and food.
And lastly, of course I think a hearse is prestigious, its the car that many take their last ride in. If you look up the history of the hearse, you will find that Cadillac was chosen back in the earlier part of the 20th century so that people could go out in sytle. Now really, how would it look if they carted people off in the back of a cargo van? I rest my case. No pon intended.
Cadillac's on the way back.
thebug...
But, it's also quite possible that the leader in over $40K sales is.... Chevrolet. There's no way to tell how many over $40K Tahoes got sold, but I'm sure it's a heck of a lot.
And speaking of the Deville, I would kill the current car at its current price point and reintroduce the vehicle with at least a base price of a Lexus LS 430. You can sacrifice some of your unit sales for profit margin and regained prestige for a superior product. Buyers who want something cheaper can go for the CTS or the upcoming STS. If they really want a large American luxury car from GM, the Buick Park Avenue should fill in the void at the current Deville's price point.
My knee was in the dashboard. With my Intrigue there was a good 2-3 inches of room. Which meant i could pull the seat up if I had passengers in the back.
No luck with the deville or the Aurora for that matter.
Gm is the only company I know that can build cars
with longer wheelbases that have less legroom than the cars they are replacing.
Lastly you're about the only one that think a hearse is prestigous. I don't know anyone that wants to ride in one anytime soon. I don't think any brand anywhere cares one bit about Cadillac having that dubious honor. We had some gangsters here (Chicago) buried in Cadillacs, they were without a doubt the tackiest things on wheels. Don't you see thats part of Cadillac's image problem? Nobody buying a CTS wants their car associated with some tacky overdone hearse.
Yes Cadillac is on their way back but they aren't even halfway there yet. One success (CTS) does not a re-made brand make.
eaton53,
Mercedes leads the world in luxury car sales and surely does in the true luxury class say over 50K of which Cadillac doesn't even compete. Nobody is paying sticker for high end STS and DTSs. Between the E, SL, S and CL cars nobody opens up more wallets from 50K on up, nobody...not Porsche, Ferrari, BMW, Audi, Jaguar or anyone else.
M
Padilla, Lincoln's chief, talks about Caddy plans to export to Europe. Well, should Caddy pursue the European market? Is it a risk worth taking? Full article can be found at carconnection BTW.
At $40K, everyone's competing. Cadillac is one the top dogs, if not the top dog at that price.
Remember the old saying: if you don't know where you want to go then any road will get you there.
It's a shame. The LS was such a great start. Then came Volvo, Firestone and Nasser. The one thing Caddy has going for it right now is $$$$$.
The Brits would scream bloody murder, but who cares! They'd be dead already without Ford. And they, especially AM, don't sell enough to ever make good on investments. I mean, when was the last time you saw an AM dealership?
Those things make imminent sense, so why isn't Ford doing it? Contrary to popular belief, Ford is sitting on a pile of cash, the result of their record profits in the late 90's.
Ford now appears to have given up on Lincoln, they're talking about platform-standardization with Ford and keeping prices down, seems to me they're pushing Lincoln down where Mercury should be. There won't be any interesting Lincolns, and there won't be market space for Mercury. GM should be very pleased, it sounds like Lincoln is going to be Town Cars and FWD stuff (and every possible variety of SUV, as the market starts to dissipate) for the next ten years.
As for pricing - in Germany, and minus the rather steep VAT, the 5-series BMW covers a price range of around $25K-60K.
You can't buy US-market BMWs in Europe except through the diplo/expat program, but you can buy US-market BMWs through US dealers via the European Delivery program.
Order your car, they build it, you fly over to Munich and pick it up, drive it around for anywhere from 10 minutes to 6 months, drop it off at one of about fifteen shipping agents, 4-8 weeks later your car shows up at your local dealer Stateside. MSRP (starting point for negotiation) for Euro Delivery is 7% under US dealer-lot MSRP for everything except the M cars - includes all shipping, zero-deductible insurance, roadside assistance in Europe, etc.
Good points: you get to drive a really nice car on vacation, you get to go find unrestricted sections of Autobahn, maybe you get to the Nordschleife. You get your car for less money, and depending on what state you're in and how long the car's out of the US it may be treated as a used car for tax/license fee purposes once it gets here.
Bad points: You have to arrange payment in full for the car at the time it's built (they don't want you backing out) so for this and other reasons many finance/lease firms don't like to do Euro Delivery. You have to take the trip (awww), you have to wait 1-2 months for the car to get to the US afterward, if you lease the insurance won't cover most former-East-Bloc countries (where expensive new cars tend to disappear into shipping containers very quickly.) Depending on your position on the current political squabbles you may not want to contribute to the German economy right now.
Euro Delivery is a very compelling way to buy a car - we've done it twice now. Benz, Volvo, Saab, Porsche, and I think Ferrari will also do it. Audi, oddly, does not at this time, and neither does Jaguar (maybe they're terrified of turning Americans loose at Coventry in the RHD UK in a LHD Jag...)
They are assessed at about 14% at my last account. May be a little higher now, as I haven't purchased a high dollar item there for some time now. The VAT authorities will drop the 14% automatically if you have VAT priviledges. The other tax hurdles are though the U.S. Those who have tax exempt status (I'm one of those), who purchase through a U.S. exchange system (duty free) can avoid all but the state tax assessed when the vehicle is registered. You may also have to pay the cost of shipping the vehicle to the U.S. if you can't cut a deal.
Now, if I wanted a MB or BMW, that's what I would do, but I don't want either one, so for me it's a mute point. The only European car that I would have is a Volvo. The only reason I don't have a Volvo now is because service really sucks to high heaven at the "ONE" local dealer in my area.
I have a few friends in the mortuary business, and one has a saying "a hearse is only a hearse from the outside". That's pretty deep, if you think about it. I still think they're pretty cool.
thebug...
Thanks for the interesting post. The CTS is now where the Lincoln LS was three years ago, minus the future financial implosion (we hope). Many of us bought into the initial LS concept, which was a bona fide competitor to BMW, including the manual and plans for a diesel. Well, Jac & the boys decided Volvo and Jag could carry the banner, and the LS went in the toilet as far as Europe was concerned. I'd like to think the CTS won't follow.
Competing in Europe (successfully, one hopes) over a period of years will win serious car enthusaists' attention. I've been poo-poohed numerous times on for saying so, but think about it: If an American sedan can really run with the fast dogs on the Autobahn, I'll stand in line for one. I think others would as well.
The German annual inspections are brutal, and cars that will run at 100- 120 mph for hours are routine over there. I've rented cars in Germany and been interested to note Chrysler minivans passing me as I drive my Audi at 105 mph.
The guys on the LS boards will tell you that Lincoln was tuning their car in Europe before CTS could spell the concept. . .which is true, by the way. However, Lincoln has let the European cachet slip away, and I'd hate to see GM do the same.
You're right -- the only Cadillac that has a prayer in Europe is the CTS. Go for it!
Mostly used in the big city areas, it allows them to change the speed limit to meet the current weather and traffic conditions. This has been going on for about two years now. Plans are to extend this program throughtout the entire Autobahn system because it has already reduced the number of fatal accidents by 30%. They didn't say what the speed limit would be in the out lying areas. This will probably happen in a year or so.
It will be interesting to see how many drivers obey the speed limits, and then again law inforcement is much stricter there, and people may adapt quickly.
thebug...
As we in the U.S. only allow a curtain volume of outside merchandise to enter the country, the others surely have restrictions as well. And becuase of their size, it has to be much tighter.
thebug...
Exactly, thats what Cadillac does, make the numbers fit. There are some here that will tell you that not even 40K is a true "luxury" car. Maybach, I bet will outsell all the rest in the 250K plus bracket, at least in the first 2 years.
"At $40K, everyone's competing. Cadillac is one the top dogs, if not the top dog at that price."
Exactly! They aren't #1 but they're in the running.
thebug,
Does everyone have those privilages? If they did MB, BMW and Audi dealers here would be only used for delivery purposes. I think your situation is unique.
M
That's not much of a market.
The "What is a luxury car" thing has beaten to death... still no consensus and there never will be. There's really no need to continue it here.
If Caddy wants to compete in the long term, it has to be in Europe. I agree lack of engine choices is a serious handicap. Politically speaking, this is probably the worst time to start the venture!
So long, in fact, that in the meantime Ford went out and bought Jaguar (and proceeded to build the DEW98-based S-Type) and then bought Volvo.
Ah well...the DEW98/LS (and the CTS) are, in concept, higher-end designs than anything Volvo does, and in the future Volvos will be on Ford platforms anyway.
The Autobahn has had speed limits on much of it for a while, in fact for some reason they like to throw 100-110kph limits on long downhill stretches apparently for no other reason than to test drivers' patience.
Interesting that Italy just announced that in the interest of safety they were RAISING some Autostrada speed limits from 130kph (81mph) to 150kph (93mph.) Bravo!
1. It needs to concentrate on making the best possible cars it can in the U.S. market, its home market, which is still the richest in the world.
2. Only after it has perfected a car in its home market, assuming that size and engines are appropriate should it consider Europe. Many of the cars exported to America and even some of those built here by foreign brands were field tested for years in their home markets. You risk a lot to your image when your field test a brand new model in an export market.
3. Cadillac should stop listening to the critics who want instant parity with platforms that have been refined over many years. Instead of counting just on new whiz-bang models, they should also stick to their platform (whatever it happens to be, if its a good one)and refine it until it is worthy of the U.S. market and then worry about exports. It takes years of refinement to make anything the best, there are seldom any shortcuts, especially when you have quality competitors who have a head start on long term refinement.
4. Exporters tend to export their best which often is better than or competitive with rivals in their target export market. Technical excellence, scarcity, prestige, the fact that it is an exotic foreign brand will make it easier to charge premium prices and withstand the hostile reaction from foreign rivals.
5. If they can't sell a lot of cars here with all the advantages of a home market, they are unlikely to be able to sell enough in Europe where all the odds are against them to stay in business. The export market is a possible bonus, which might (or might not) develop, but only after much success on the home front first.
Yep, that was it. It looked sharp. I like the wheels better than the factory wheels, but I wasn't too wild about the gold-plated crest in the middle of them.
Unfortunately for me, Bondurant can't guaranty the CTS's will be prepped in time for my March vacay, so I'll resched for the fall. Can't swing it in the summer. Wife still razzin' me for schlepping her out to Hoover Dam during a Vegas vacay in 120 degree heat. This means I'll hold off competitive entries for a while. May try some rallys.
More competitive data. May have found a good wheel combo. The OZ Supperleggeras are only 18#, same as BBS RC's, and come in our size. The rep at Tirerack quoted a 32# weight for the Goodyear Eagle F1's. That sounds excessive. I wonder if he quoted mounted.. I asked for just the rubber weight. I'll confirm.
In competition of other sorts... the recent postings on Cadillac world appeal, sales, etc., and the compros as to who is "top dog", especially regards German cars... had me wondering if the Iraq/UN situation will lead to a down-turn in German car sales. I'm already reading of boycotts of French products. I wonder if "professional" car reviewers will lessen their predisposition to things Teutonic.
Personally, with the exception of a brief fling with an MGB (which was a POS but a blast to drive), I've always bought American cars because a) they were better than, or at worst as good as, anything else out there and b)I understood and could work on them. (C'mon needle bearing gear clusters and side draft carbs? what up?.. that's just me being parochial) ;-)
When living there, I had friends who had family come over to visit and they purchased new U.S. spec BMW's or MB's, for shipment back to the U.S. I know they didn't have duty free priviledges, but did take advantage of the VAT deduction. The VAT deduction alone saves a bundle, and makes it worth the trip. The selections at these dealers were pretty good, and I believe you could order with the proper (large) down payment.
If you have a good bank, you can prearrange financing for a purchase of a curtain amount. As my bank did for me one year when I wasn't sure what kind of car I was going to by, they simply approved me for a specified amount, and said keep it within that amount and you're covered. Today with electronic transfer systems this can be accomplished quite easily, anywhere in the world.
thebug...
M
Also, keep us informed about your search for wheels. If the OZ Supers do in fact fit our cars, I may want some. Also, if you haven't already looked into it, I believe Nitto makes performance tires in some of our sizes.
pmdriver, if you're out there, I finally followed your recommendation and ran with the stock tire pressure this past weekend. I did much better, but I'm not sure if it was a combo of the pressure or that I'm getting better. But I will continue with th stock tire pressure. Thanks for the advice!
Anybody else see this behavior?
I don't know about now, but before Ford merged with Volvo, Volvo would wine and dine you, take you to the factory (in Swenden) so you could watch them make your car, bring you back to Germany, and then ship the car to a place of your choice. So many would wait until their contract/tour was complete and then order a car and meet it in the States. I'm not sure but BMW may offer a similar adventure.
You asked earlier if this was a unique situation? No it's not, all U.S. Ambassadors and their dependents are entitled to these prviledges. Although many don't take avantage (probably because they don't know, or don't need to), the number of people authorized to do this is in the thousands. More often, these priviledges are exercised with other high dollar purchases.
thebug...
M
I was reading some of the user reviews for the CTS at MSN's site and was surprised how many people complained about the gas cap not locking. What am I missing? Why is that such a big deal?
http://www.automotivetrends.com/images/P1050456.JPG
Of course, it's not like any of us (save pmdriver2) has seen one up close, so what do I know?