According to autoweek.com, GM is upping the available wheel size for certain vehicles. Although we've known that the CTS-V is due for 18 inch rims, it looks like the Escalade family will finally be able to get 20 inch wheels from the factory. My dealership in Atlanta once told me that half the Escalades they sold leave the dealership with large aftermarket 20 inch rims (or higher). GM is finally figuring out that they were leaving a good deal of profit on the table.
In addition, 18 inch wheels will be offered at Buick and on some unnamed mid-sized SUVs.
And they'll come back occasionally for replacement of broken rims, and someday the trend-blinded buyers who bought the things will drive one with smaller wheels and wonder why it feels so much better than the bling-blinged thing they drive.
And the poor tire manufacturers get beaten into building soft-ride long-life low-profile tires, which those of us (who actually care about grip, not just looks) then have to be careful to avoid when tire-shopping.
A car like the CTS has a suspension layout capable of keeping the tire perpendicular to the ground. This is not easy in most Macstrut layouts, and it's nearly impossible in things like the Escalade. That isn't to say that going larger in wheel diameter, even in a CTS, really buys you much - apples-to-apples (that is, comparable quality tires) you lose more in ride quality than you gain in grip.
From a technical perspective there's seldom much reason for going to a low-profile tire, unless you need a large-diameter wheel to fit over a big brake rotor.
I'm in the market for a new car and currently the dealerships near me are offering some exilent prices as well as deals with the CTS... my question is how do ya'll like your own CTS and have ya had any problems.... thanx
While researching the CTS before my purchase, I reviewed many auto mags and web sites to find the best info on the CTS. As a result I found that many of those testing cars and providing reviews raved about the build quality of BMW's products over all others, especially that of the CTS.
As you all may well know the best source of advertisment is word of mouth, (what the consumer thinks and says about a product or service). During my research, I did suspect some bias from the reviewers as they frequently criticized minor flaws (problems that could be found on any car given the right circumstances) of some fairly decent automotive products, but seldom would they knock the quaity of BMW.
These very reviews inspired me to look over the reviews of those who have purchased BMW's 3 and 5 series to get the real scoop. If you have the time, take a look at what people are saying in the suggested improvements segment of their reviews. Although many (some not) are rating at high 8 to 9+, the improvement segment tells another story
Compare their comments to those offered CTS owners (those who own a CTS already know) and you'll sense a more realistic degree of owner satisfaction. The cost of the admission ticket into the good old U.S. of A. can sometimes be brutal.
cjs2002: I have had my CTS since November 2002. Not a problem to be had. When I do drive it, (I rotate my cars bi-weekly, and yes I cheat the CTS gets more hours) I drive all day. Like a taxi if you will. A typical day consist of a range from 100 to 200 miles in a mixture of city and short distance freeway driving. I love this car. I've been getting about 340 miles per tank, and this is in good weather, the weathr is always good here. The more I drive it, the better it gets. In my opinion, if you purchase a CTS, you will enjoy it just as all the others are. Don't forget the Bose. It's a must. Good luck on your purchase.
"I think clean air is important, especially for kids, so I don't mind getting a few less mpg."
Too bad the price for supposed cleaner air is poisened water, as is the case with MTBE. Funny how the oil companies can make a very clean, non-additive fuel, but the gummont mandates additives like ethanol. FWIW, here in The Peoples Republic of California, MTBE is being phased out as it is contaminating wells and reservoirs all over the state!
It will take some time, but I encourage you to go back through and scan as many of these postings as possible. Un-scientifically speaking, the overall comments are very positive. This is all from my memory but, very few reports of problems. The most serious, one report of an internal engine component failure. Some minor assembly problems have been reported regarding a kink in the fuel filler hose, a few batteries failed or were defective, and a couple of reported coolant leaks. I don't recall seeing any reports of difficulties getting any of the problems resolved by the dealership/factory.
The only performance criticism, coming from very few, is about total horsepower. You'll see some recent posts from those longing for the proposed CTSv that will have about 30 more horses. Look for posts from necros and mannytranny. They are actually taking their CTS's to competitions. I plan to do the same after I complete a driving course at Bondurant. BTW, Bondurant has switched from teaching in Mustangs to the CTS. That right there should be endorsement enough.
The only major interior criticism seems to be the lack of an analog temperature gauge and the accuracy of the analog clock. In practice, notification of an over-temp condition would appear in the console display and the on-board computer would attempt steps to mitigate. Future instrumentation will likely include the temp gauge and replace the analog clock with a digital display in the console. Some feel there should be more interior "luxury" touches for this price-point.
I think the over-all concensus is the car is just incredibly fun to drive, with plenty of power, precise handling, and a solid build. I'll leave you to decide on the exterior styling. People seem to love it or hate it. Personally speaking, it's the most exciting design to come out of Detroit since the first T-bird.
My new car purchase is still about 2 months away, but the CTS is the frontrunner. I've pretty much have decided that the base model offers all I need, but have been disappointed by the notion that I can't get the "cool" 17" wheels. Comments here have me rethinking that, plus my wife saw the CTSs parked at the dealership an liked the 16" wheels better (thought the 17" looked like truck wheels, I guess because of the exposed bolt heads). Plus I gather that ride on the base (16" wheels, no sport tuned suspension) will be smoother without unduly comprimising the CTS's handling when I want to push it a little.
Another thing... I'm debating whether to buy or lease. I've yet to lease a car and I don't fit the typical lease profile of wanting to be able to turn my car over every couple of years. But I'm concerned about the resale value of '03 CTS which I think is going to take a beating when the '04s come out with the bigger engine and some of the small complaints fixed. Right now the residual value being offered on a 36 month lease is 57% and on a 48 month lease is 48%. How do those sound to people? They strike me as pretty good/optimistic which makes the lease option more attractive.
I don't think there is any requirement up here though I have notice Sunoco posts a sign saying that the gas contains up to 10% methanol. Canadian gas does contain an additive in the winter to help cars start in the cold which does drag winter mileage though.
I had a question about this when it came to my 2000 accord. I was getting better milage with 87 than 93. I was told it has to do with a sensor called the ERC. In some cars, I here the computer can change how the engine burns the fuel depending on the grade. But on the accord, the ERC is set to 87, so any higher grades is not burned as well as it could be, thus resulting in less mpg. So maybe the ERC in the CTS is not adaptable.
Well, I never said it had plenty of power. I'll be the first in line when someone offers a supercharger for the car. I hear Vortech is working on one. Forced induction, baybeeee!!!
Saw my first one while driving the other day. Very nice looking car. Cool color. For those interested I purchased the English floor mats out of the Herrington catalog. For all the snow we get here in New England I wanted something to replace the original mats at least in winter. They trap a lot of water and sand and are easy to clean. My CTS is running great and I love the Bose sound sytem.
Just wanted to drop a note and wish you well on your Bondurant training. One of my responsibilities is to serve as the technical rep to the Bondurant school for the CTS. I visited out there a couple of weeks ago and can tell you that you won't be disappointed. It is extremely well run with knowledgeable, professional instructors and good technical guys running their fleet. Personal note - It was a thrill for me to get to chat with Mr. Bondurant about his Formula One days (he raced at the Nurburgring three times!) Good luck and enjoy!
Lets try this again. Before leasing a car, review the contract carefully to determine who comes out ahead at the end of the lease. It's probably not going to be you. For many have found that they have been penny wise and dollar foolish. Leasing is very very tricky.
The very few that i have seen in the Syracuse NY area have been priced right up there with the new ones. Whatever vehicle you trade in your gonna get hosed any way !
BTW: Auto show is this weekend and they are gonna have the Ciena and XLR on display. Hope they are NOT roped off so I can hands on check em' out..geo
I do not agree with all those who classify the CTS in the same category as the 3 series. Sorry, I do not buy the argument that cars in same price bracket compare to one another, or that since both entry level then they compare to one another. Do you compare an SUV to a compact because they are in the same price bracket or both are entry levels to their brand names. No, you compare cars of same category for what they offer at that cost. i.e, SUVs Vs. SUVs, Compacts Vs Compact, Midsize Vs midsize all being at the same luxury or utility level and they all do not have to cost the same. Therefore, if both cars offer similar services and level of luxury but are at significant cost difference, the cheaper will not be downgraded to a cheaper level just because it is cheaper; less cost will be the deciding factor at this point.
Here is how it works, you decide to buy a car based on a certain need of service. this need dictates the kind of car you need (luxry, sport, suv, bid, small etc.). once this is decided you see how much money can you spare and set your budget. you then go get the best money can by of the type of car you wanted.
The CTS and the BMW 330i are not in the same category, those wanting a medium size car will never consider the 3 series BMW, they would consider the 5 series and if they can't afford it they will seek a cheaper yet midsize car, an A6 for example. When i went shopping the 330i was not an option, neither the Mercedes C class, nor the A4. I did look at the E class and A6 and Lexus G300. I also consider the Infinity G3 is a competitor to the CTS.
And as per the first CTS review by Motor Trend back in January 2002 issue, they stated that Cadillac was setting the BMW 5 as the bench mark for the CTS. Cadillac wanted to offer a BMW 5 for the price of a BMW 3, and that is the way it is.
What do you think, will it be fair to compare the CTSv to the M3 or the M5?
A lot of people not need to purchase based on having passenger room for four adults.. Those without kids, those with one child, empty nesters. They may already have a minivan in the family for weekend family outings. For those people who don't need a lot of room but want a sport sedan, I think they will compare the 3-series and the CTS because of the price.
When I bought my 2001 Catera,I also considered the 525i and the E320. The BMW 3-series gets such good press that I did look at one of those,too. I am only 6',but I like a very upright driving position,and the little Bimmer just felt a little too cramped. I felt the windshield header was right above my eyebrows. So I don't think there is much denying that after a few decades of focusing on driving charestics,the BMW is truly outstanding. And I loved the 525i. But the price of both the Catera and the CTS are very persuaive. And even if the back seat isn't used much,a long wheelbase can add very pleasant charectics to the driving experience.
I see this distinction in many discussions about the CTS, whether it is comparable to a BMW 3 or 5. Some compare the CTS to the 3 because of cost, and some to the 5 because of size. Depends on how the user views what he/she wants in a car. I consider the CTS comparable to the 5 series, not as posh perhaps, but $10k less.
I saw a piece on the news last night that Cadillac will offer a new type of cruise control that will use radar to slow a car automatically when on cruise so that you stay a certain number of feet behind the car in front of you.
Anyone know about this and whether it will be available on the CTS?
I hope they make it optional, or at least adjustable. Just my opinion, but they are getting way to intrusive in what the driver can do and what a computer is controlling. Now I can get rear ended by the guy behind me because he never saw any brake lights, but I have slowed down in front of him.
There are some excellent grippy 225/55-16 tires available, many even ride quite well, and that size tire is large enough to work fine on a CTS-size car (at least one that isn't trying to put 400 ft/lb of torque on the ground.)
If it turns you that you're not satisfied with the OEM tires, you might try a set of stock-size Bridgestone S-03s rather than changing wheels.
The feature you're describing is Cadillac's "Adaptive Cruise Control". Currently, it's only available on the XLR. Here's the ACC description from Cadillac's web page.
"Cruise control with vision. A radar sensor detects the presence and speed of the car in front of you and will assist you in maintaining desired headway. Headway is maintained using the throttle; if more deceleration is required, brakes are applied. If driver action is required, the system will sound an alarm. When traffic clears the cruise control gradually increases vehicle speed to the set speed."
It would be nice if they offered it on all Cadillac models, but my best guess is that it'll be offered on the top models and work it's way down.
I don't use Cruise Control a lot, especially on the CTS.
I use cruise whenever practical, it gives me better mileage and saves tickets. Without cruise, a 325 HP TransAm gets away from you in a hurry, especially with my lead foot!
Cheers and gears has an interesting picture, someone got from autodesign.com. It shows Cadillac's current A&S (Art & Science) cars, but there are either two CTS's in the picture, a CTS and a CTS-V or a CTS and the New STS. What's everyone's best guess?
That's the name. I was trying to remember it. The news clip only said it would be available on some Cadillacs in 2004. I think it's a great idea. I use cruise control a lot on the highway. Like blckthree said, keeps you from getting tickets (especially on wide open highways) and gets you better gas mileage.
Ok. back to performance. I did some high performance driving yesterday and the CTS is truly a great car. So what if some other car handles better or whatever, the CTS capabilities is already beyond most people aggressive driving limits. I drove the CTS on the open highway (3 lanes in each direction) for the first time yesterday to a near by town. I drove hard and some what aggressive, the CTS never blinked or made me feel uneasy, it was so reassuring it was scary. I got to 120 mph several times and was normally around 100 mph, and it was fun. The CTS felt super in all turns and conditions and glued to the ground.
Later yesterday I pit the CTS against my brothers 2001 BMW 528i. The CTS won hands down. We tested a side by side take off up till about 85 mph, and we tested a side by side take off from around 20 mph. The BMW 5 with 190 hp was no match for the CTS 220 hp. To day morning my brother came with a friend, they were is a Mercedes 500 cope. We all new the CTS stood no prayer, but we tested nonetheless. Well, believe it or not, from a stand still launch the CTS consistently blew the doors off the Mercedes. The CTS was ahead all through 1st gear, but that is about it, the Mercedes flew by from then on.
I like to use CruiseControl on open highway stretches, not in expressway traffic, but still find the placement of the CC controls on the CTS steering wheel inconvenient. I prefer fingertip convenience, where I can accelerate or decelerate without having to move my hands to the CC control. Small item, perhaps, but one that constantly recurs.
I completely agree with mcgreenx. The bottom of the steering wheel is a very poor place to put any control which needs to be used while driving. It is awkward and disorienting to use, and I fear that it will eventually cause someone a serious accident. I am really surprised that the ergonomics engineers allowed this placement.
bingoman and mcgreenx - I agree, althought I don't get a chance to us cruise control a lot (too much traffic), I'd like to see the controls in a better place. If you look at the SRX steering wheel (Cadillac web page), there are no controls at the base of the wheel. My best guess is that the CTS interior re-design will include better placement of the controls.
The picture I posted earlier was part of an Autoweek Design Presentation. The woman speaking was Anne Asensio, Executive Director of Interior Design, Quality & Brand Character. Here's what she had to say about Cadillac:
•The concept of Art & Science helped define Cadillac’s brand character as the twenty-first century began. •Brand identity played a huge role in establishing this concept. •Here are some examples •All Cadillac will have bold, sheer, surfaces. •Body sides have a strong, full length spline with emphasis on vertical ends and a fast, formal sail panel. •Front elements include precise vertical headlamps and a shield-shaped grille with egg-crate texture. •The rear features vertical tail lamps and a V-shaped CHMSL. (Whats a CHMSL?)
•The interior features American technology influence; vertical elements to reinforce exterior themes; watch influence on gauges and instrumentation; and warm, inviting materials to contrast the technical appearance. •The Art & Science brand style for Cadillac is transforming the Cadillac brand. •Here’s a snapshot of how that consistency has been manifested across the entire Cadillac line . . . when all the elements of a brand strategy are successfully implemented.
As for the picture, note that cars currently in production are black. Cars about to be produced are in silver (white). The white car to the right is probably a prototype of the next STS. Note the roof line and door handles in relation to the rear door window divider. The silver car in the foreground is the XLR and the black CTS could be a CTSV.
Center High Mount Stop Light. Required by DOT rule after they found that a similar device on New York City Taxicabs reduced the rate of rear end collisons.
Comments
Accord 189.5
CTS 190.1
E-class 190.3
3.2TL 192.9
Lincoln LS 193.9
Bigger than a 5 series, about the same size as the Accord and E-class but not quite as big as a 3.2TL or Lincoln LS.
In addition, 18 inch wheels will be offered at Buick and on some unnamed mid-sized SUVs.
What color?
thebug...
Rich
And the poor tire manufacturers get beaten into building soft-ride long-life low-profile tires, which those of us (who actually care about grip, not just looks) then have to be careful to avoid when tire-shopping.
A car like the CTS has a suspension layout capable of keeping the tire perpendicular to the ground. This is not easy in most Macstrut layouts, and it's nearly impossible in things like the Escalade. That isn't to say that going larger in wheel diameter, even in a CTS, really buys you much - apples-to-apples (that is, comparable quality tires) you lose more in ride quality than you gain in grip.
From a technical perspective there's seldom much reason for going to a low-profile tire, unless you need a large-diameter wheel to fit over a big brake rotor.
As you all may well know the best source of advertisment is word of mouth, (what the consumer thinks and says about a product or service). During my research, I did suspect some bias from the reviewers as they frequently criticized minor flaws (problems that could be found on any car given the right circumstances) of some fairly decent automotive products, but seldom would they knock the quaity of BMW.
These very reviews inspired me to look over the reviews of those who have purchased BMW's 3 and 5 series to get the real scoop. If you have the time, take a look at what people are saying in the suggested improvements segment of their reviews. Although many (some not) are rating at high 8 to 9+, the improvement segment tells another story
Compare their comments to those offered CTS owners (those who own a CTS already know) and you'll sense a more realistic degree of owner satisfaction. The cost of the admission ticket into the good old U.S. of A. can sometimes be brutal.
thebug...
thebug...
Too bad the price for supposed cleaner air is poisened water, as is the case with MTBE. Funny how the oil companies can make a very clean, non-additive fuel, but the gummont mandates additives like ethanol. FWIW, here in The Peoples Republic of California, MTBE is being phased out as it is contaminating wells and reservoirs all over the state!
The only performance criticism, coming from very few, is about total horsepower. You'll see some recent posts from those longing for the proposed CTSv that will have about 30 more horses. Look for posts from necros and mannytranny. They are actually taking their CTS's to competitions. I plan to do the same after I complete a driving course at Bondurant. BTW, Bondurant has switched from teaching in Mustangs to the CTS. That right there should be endorsement enough.
The only major interior criticism seems to be the lack of an analog temperature gauge and the accuracy of the analog clock. In practice, notification of an over-temp condition would appear in the console display and the on-board computer would attempt steps to mitigate. Future instrumentation will likely include the temp gauge and replace the analog clock with a digital display in the console. Some feel there should be more interior "luxury" touches for this price-point.
I think the over-all concensus is the car is just incredibly fun to drive, with plenty of power, precise handling, and a solid build. I'll leave you to decide on the exterior styling. People seem to love it or hate it. Personally speaking, it's the most exciting design to come out of Detroit since the first T-bird.
Pretty impressive.
Loads of back seat legroom.
I'm debating whether to buy or lease. I've yet to lease a car and I don't fit the typical lease profile of wanting to be able to turn my car over every couple of years. But I'm concerned about the resale value of '03 CTS which I think is going to take a beating when the '04s come out with the bigger engine and some of the small complaints fixed. Right now the residual value being offered on a 36 month lease is 57% and on a 48 month lease is 48%. How do those sound to people? They strike me as pretty good/optimistic which makes the lease option more attractive.
But that's just me.
Bingo
thebug...
thebug...
area have been priced right up there with the new
ones. Whatever vehicle you trade in your gonna get hosed any way !
BTW: Auto show is this weekend and they are gonna
have the Ciena and XLR on display. Hope they are
NOT roped off so I can hands on check em' out..geo
Here is how it works, you decide to buy a car based on a certain need of service. this need dictates the kind of car you need (luxry, sport, suv, bid, small etc.). once this is decided you see how much money can you spare and set your budget. you then go get the best money can by of the type of car you wanted.
The CTS and the BMW 330i are not in the same category, those wanting a medium size car will never consider the 3 series BMW, they would consider the 5 series and if they can't afford it they will seek a cheaper yet midsize car, an A6 for example. When i went shopping the 330i was not an option, neither the Mercedes C class, nor the A4. I did look at the E class and A6 and Lexus G300. I also consider the Infinity G3 is a competitor to the CTS.
And as per the first CTS review by Motor Trend back in January 2002 issue, they stated that Cadillac was setting the BMW 5 as the bench mark for the CTS. Cadillac wanted to offer a BMW 5 for the price of a BMW 3, and that is the way it is.
What do you think, will it be fair to compare the CTSv to the M3 or the M5?
Regards to all
The BMW 3-series gets such good press that I did look at one of those,too.
I am only 6',but I like a very upright driving position,and the little Bimmer just felt a little too cramped. I felt the windshield header was right above my eyebrows.
So I don't think there is much denying that after a few decades of focusing on driving charestics,the BMW is truly outstanding.
And I loved the 525i. But the price of both the Catera and the CTS are very persuaive.
And even if the back seat isn't used much,a long wheelbase can add very pleasant charectics to the driving experience.
Anyone know about this and whether it will be available on the CTS?
If it turns you that you're not satisfied with the OEM tires, you might try a set of stock-size Bridgestone S-03s rather than changing wheels.
"Cruise control with vision. A radar sensor detects the presence and speed of the car in front of you and will assist you in maintaining desired headway. Headway is maintained using the throttle; if more deceleration is required, brakes are applied. If driver action is required, the system will sound an alarm. When traffic clears the cruise control gradually increases vehicle speed to the set speed."
It would be nice if they offered it on all Cadillac models, but my best guess is that it'll be offered on the top models and work it's way down.
I don't use Cruise Control a lot, especially on the CTS.
Rich
http://www.cheersandgears.com/boards/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3843
Rich
The Right hand white car is a CTS sedan. (i.e. the current CTS.)
The Left hand white car is a CTS coupe. (future car.)
The Black car is a CTSv sedan.
Bingo
Later yesterday I pit the CTS against my brothers 2001 BMW 528i. The CTS won hands down. We tested a side by side take off up till about 85 mph, and we tested a side by side take off from around 20 mph. The BMW 5 with 190 hp was no match for the CTS 220 hp. To day morning my brother came with a friend, they were is a Mercedes 500 cope. We all new the CTS stood no prayer, but we tested nonetheless. Well, believe it or not, from a stand still launch the CTS consistently blew the doors off the Mercedes. The CTS was ahead all through 1st gear, but that is about it, the Mercedes flew by from then on.
The CTS is really a fun car.
The picture I posted earlier was part of an Autoweek Design Presentation. The woman speaking was Anne Asensio, Executive Director of Interior Design, Quality & Brand Character. Here's what she had to say about Cadillac:
•The concept of Art & Science helped define Cadillac’s brand character as the twenty-first century began.
•Brand identity played a huge role in establishing this concept.
•Here are some examples
•All Cadillac will have bold, sheer, surfaces.
•Body sides have a strong, full length spline with emphasis on vertical ends and a fast, formal sail panel.
•Front elements include precise vertical headlamps and a shield-shaped grille with egg-crate texture.
•The rear features vertical tail lamps and a V-shaped CHMSL. (Whats a CHMSL?)
•The interior features American technology influence; vertical elements to reinforce exterior themes; watch influence on gauges and instrumentation; and warm, inviting materials to contrast the technical appearance.
•The Art & Science brand style for Cadillac is transforming the Cadillac brand.
•Here’s a snapshot of how that consistency has been manifested across the entire Cadillac line . . . when all the elements of a brand strategy are successfully implemented.
As for the picture, note that cars currently in production are black. Cars about to be produced are in silver (white). The white car to the right is probably a prototype of the next STS. Note the roof line and door handles in relation to the rear door window divider. The silver car in the foreground is the XLR and the black CTS could be a CTSV.
Rich