Loyaltogm1, The CTS is premium fuel recommended, which means you can use 87 octane for 99% of situations and have no problems. The engine calibration was optimized for premium fuel - so for maximum 0 - 60 times, quarter miles, etc., premium fuel will have a positive effect. Also for cars used in very high ambient temperatures (like Phoenix in July), premium fuel will eliminate engine knocking during launch. Bottom line, for everyday driving in Michigan, I'd use 87.
04CTSV, I like your ID! We've announced the CTS-V will be available late 03 / early 04 calendar year (doesn't mean dealers aren't taking orders - I don't know). More specific info to follow, but I don't think you'll be disappointed.
Thanks so much for the fuel info. I saw on your profile you are an engineer with the CTSV program. Any news on when the 04 CTS will be out,not the V, and will the only available engine have more hp, as mentioned, or will the 200hp still be an option. Thanks
I'm glad you noted pmdriver's credentials. His advice caused me to go back to the "bible" and see what GM-Cadillac recommends. Here's what is says on page 6-3 of the CTS Owner's Manual:
Gasoline Octane
Use premium unleaded gasoline with a posted octane of 91 or higher for best performance. You may also use middle grade or regular unleaded gasoline rated at 87 octane or higher, but your vehicle’s acceleration may be slightly reduced. If the octane is less than 87, you may get a heavy knocking noise when you drive. If it is bad enough, it can damage your engine.....
I've been using the expensive stuff because I thought I had to, but now I'm wondering if I should try downgrading and see if I notice any difference in performance. If I drive my usual 18k miles per year and continue to get the 21.5 mpg I seem to be getting, I figure I would save about $85 per year at a differential of about $.10 per gallon between high and low octane. What do you think? Is it enough to warrant using lower octane?
Are you still getting Check Coolant Level? Haven't heard since your post of 1/21. I use 91 octane and I feel the car does O.K. I may try 87 octane again in the spring. I did try it for two tankfulls but I can't remember why I switched back to 91. Maybe the performance?
91 octane or higher gas in my Contour SVT since the beginning along with sticky tires.
Sure, the tires last only 25K miles and I could save a few bucks on gas by getting lower octane, but I bought the car for performance and am not going to sacrifice that to save a few bucks.
Anyone who can afford a new CTS can certainly afford the gas. I know when I get mine, I will continue to buy high octane gas and sticky tires.
My personal experience is as follows: my CTS(Lux.pkg., auto. xmission and Bose music) has 14,500 miles and the DIC shows 23.1 avg. miles. I have used 87 octane exclusively and reside in the Greater Phoenix Metro area. I respect pmdriver's very excellent report but I have not experienced any "knock" upon acceleration. I do, however, believe that condition is very possible and others may not have been as fortunate as I in this regard. Perhaps others in the Phoenix area can relate their experience.
As regards performance, the power train works just fine for me. I've never been embarrassed in the city or on the e-ways (5,000 mile RT Phoenix/Detroit included in 14,500 miles). Given my experience I've never considered a higher octane fuel. I have always been a believer that one should use the lowest octane fuel that does not cause the engine to "knock"
I would like to hear from CTS drivers who have used a range of octane fuels and may have some empirical data to share.
manny, a peculiar twist to the Check Coolant Level problem. When the dealer serviced that problem, as I reported here, they said they had found a leak in the cooling system and sealed it. The light stayed off for several weeks, and I thought it had been fixed. Then it started reappearing a few days ago. I just checked the coolant level (with the car REALLY cold, 13F!!!!) and it is below the line, but still shows in the tank. However, when I first checked the level after the warning light started up again, I somehow had overlooked that the overflow tank cap was missing. I found it, fortunately, in the cowl. No one but the dealer and me has had the hood open, so the service tech must have failed to put it back on. I don't know if the check coolant light reappearance is being caused by the absent cap, or a system leak, but I am curious to see if it continues to come on with the cap reinstalled. I will keep you posted.
As to the octane issue, of course another $85 per year won't be missed, but I hate to pxxs away $$$$ out the exhaust pipe (of should I say "up in smoke?). If the performance difference is not perceptible and there is no harm in using the lower rated fuel, why not do it? I will be taking a 1000 miles drive next weekend and will fill up with 87 oct., then keep a close eye and ear to performance. I'll fill up with 91 for the return and compare my subjective impressions.
Thanks mcgreenx and trichard2 for adding your opinion on the gas issue.
In my post 1882 I was not trying to be CHEAP by asking about the octane level used in the CTS but I agree with your opinion mcgreenx, why send it out the exhaust. I had heard several opinions and just wanted more info.
So for regfootball and eaton53, yes a luxury driver can afford the extra pennies!!
mcgreenx- we'll be waiting to heard about your road trip and the difference in 87 or 91.
How does the engine compensate for the lower octane fuel? It retards timing. That not only reduces power, it increases fuel consumption. Any savings from the lower octane may be offset by lower fuel economy. If the vehicle is designed for 91, that's what I'd be using. Don't be penny wise and pound foolish.
On your 1000 mile trip, don't forget to allow for differences in elevation, inclination and wind speed and direction, LOL. But really, let us know what your findings are. If you show any savings without problems I might just try mid-grade on my next trip to Las Vegas.
Anyone catch the Cadillac ads on the Superbowl last night?
CTS looked good and the whole modern line up on the bridge in attach formation was pretty slick. The 1 1/2 minute spot with the guy on the subway was interesting also.
I was surprised at the ad placement. I saw them after the half, but had read some (or at least the subway ad) were to be right after the opening kickoff. By and large I liked them all.
But my favorite ad of the game was the Bud Light "Upside Down Clown," that on one advertising site, that has many of the spots available to view, is call the "Butt Drinker."
The 04 CTS begins production in June and the 3.6 will be the only V6 available. The current 3.2 will be dropped. I believe this to be accurate info, maybe pmdriver can confirm?
I stopped by my dealer this morning on the way to work and had the coolant replenished. When I started up this morning, the Check Coolant message came on, but tonight, when I started up after the car had been parked all day, I didn't get a message. So I am guardedly optimistic that the reoccurrence was due to the overflow tank cap being left off, and the coolant being somewhat low as a consequence, and/or the lack of pressure I'll report back in a few days.
dindak, I note you are from Ontario. My son recently moved to Toronto and said the SuperBowl ads were not the same as in the U.S. He didn't see the Bud Light Clown and I thought it wasn't shown in Canada, but perhaps he just missed it.
You can see the ads here (the Clown is named "Clown Suit," which is probably more genteel than "Butt Drinker"):
mcgreenx : Ya, Global TV which broadcasts the game up here does not have the same ads. Some are the same, but many are Canadian ones. I watched a US feed via my satellite dish.
bigdaddy : 3.6L sounds sweet. I got my CTS brochure in the mail last week and I was drooling over it on the weekend. No money for it now, but it's definitely on my radar for a new car in a few years.
My love affair with the CTS began this past August and to this day I still look for any and every excuse to take her out for a spin. It's just plain fun to drive.
I bought a dealer demo with 6K km. (3.7K miles) for CAN$45K (US$28.8K). This was roughly CAN$5K (US$3.2K) off of the Canadian sticker price for a Deluxe model with all of the available options except the Nav system. I wanted to buy new but there were no dealers in the surrounding area that had any on their lot. In fact, I have seen only one other CTS on the road since I purchased mine. Talk about feeling special eh!
Somehow I have accumulated another 9K km (5.5K miles) over the past 5 months. That's a lot of trips to the corner store. Most of these miles have been trouble free with the exception of a couple of problems that were quickly rectified by the Caddy dealer.
1. The spare wheel well in the trunk filled up with water after a heavy rain due to a defective seal in the d/s tail light assembly. They also put in brand new carpeting in the trunk without being requested to do so which I thought was above and beyond.
2. Minor transmission fluid leak due to a defective seal. Only took the dealer a few days to get the part.
Last week we had a quick thaw with very messy driving conditions and found that my headlight washers were not working. I haven't yet gone to the dealer to address this problem.
Some deficiencies that I think could be improved on in future models. These are definitely not life threatening but a bit annoying.
1. The analog clock has never been in sync with its digital counterpart on the DIC.
2. The location and size of the glove box.
3. The lack of pockets in the sun visors and depth of the storage space located in the doors.
4. The truck lid is very heavy and difficult to lift especially if it's covered with ice.
5. I love the looks of the square front end but in the summer you can't go far without it being plastered with bugs. Perhaps a bit more of a slant would remedy this or install a coating of some kind that is easier to clean.
I have read every message posted to this site and found it to be a valuable source of information to all current and prospective CTS owners. I would like to thank everyone for their contributions.
I was told by the dealer that they checked with Cadillac and it can't be synced. As far as I am concerned, that's BS. There is no doubt in my mind that it can be synced; Caddy just doesn't want to spend the money to do it. And it is REALLY annoying.
04ctsv: I don't think you can get a quote on a car that's not on the market, but I think you already know that. You can however get a free price quote from your current insurance company (or any insurance company for that matter) on the current CTS model adding all the specs that you would have on the 04 you plan to purchase (less the new engine if it's going to change), and this will give you a very good idea of possible cost. For your age (24), under 25 yrs and male, think high.
At 25 yrs rates drop considerably if you have a good driving record and can prove responsibility, ie; long time on the same job, good credit history, solid checking account experience, and oh don't forget the spouse. Keeping the same insurance company also helps. The longer with one company the better the rates.
It took a lot of years for my rates to come down, even after 25 yrs due to no spouse, driving 70-100K miles per year, and of course a ticket or three along the way. Leaving the country for five years also helped.
In my opinion, all offered resale values are too low. They never seem to offer me what "I" think the car is worth. Which is probably why I don't trade when I purchase a new vehicle. One thing for sure, I love driving my CTS. Don't think I'll trade it either.
That insurance for a CTSv won't be any higher than a standard CTS. I have a Contour SVT and my insurance guy says a Contour is a Contour, despite the performance add on's.
Some insurance companies are charging extra for the Lincoln LSE model which is nothing more than an appearance package - no performance improvements. But the body kit is rather expensive - about $2K by itself so it would be more expensive to repair. But IMO the insurance industry doesn't often turn down an opportunity to raise rates and having a performance model would certainly give them that opportunity.
No, but it does depend on the insurance company and the vehicle. I also wouldn't put the SVT contour in the same league as a 400 hp CTS or LS. Does a Z06 Vette cost more to insure than a regular Vette? I'd be very surprised if the answer is no. Again, it depends on the insurer and the vehicle so shop around.
I get much of my info from people I know who work at GM. As far as the CTS is concerned, I have a friend who works in the Grand River plant and I have another that is a quality engineer for the CTS. My father also worked for GM for 46 years and I live in an area that has many GM employees. It is also amazing how much info can be found on the net. For example, at the GM media site you can find pricing info on the ION quad coupe and the Silverado SS and these figures have yet to be officially released.
As price quotes are free, call any insurance compnay to inquire about rates on cars for potential purchase. In most cases, they will be glad to run a few quotes as this is very important for some people in total monthly cost, and many times a determining factor on of type of car actually purchased.
Insurance rates are governed by several factors. The biggest is probably supply and demand. In that I mean, if you purchase a car that is in the top five of those being stolen, then you will probably take a hit for that. If you live in a zip code with a high rate of motor vehicle accidents or high crime this will effect your rates. Type of vehicle (how others are driving this vehicle and age group popularity), engine size, average miles driven, the town/city where the car is garaged are all contributing factors to insurance rates.
An example of this is back in the 80's, I was going to purchase a Chevy Monte Carlo, and for some reason I changed my mind and purchased a Volvo instead. The insurance rate dropped by $1200 per year although the Volvo cost hundreds more, engine size and power were similar. When I questioned why, the response was Monte Carlo's are on the top ten list of stolen cars, and those buying Volvo's are least likely to race or drive it hard, and additionally Volvo's are rarely stolen ("because they are ugly", a direct quote from the insurance person). I bought it anyway.
Today I target cars with strong theft deterrents as with those offered by Cadillac on the CTS. I only pay $396 per month full coverage, $500 deductible and that's very good for my zip code and annual milage, and now super clean driving record. I took advantage of all the discounts. Ask when you update your policy, there are many you may not know about, and they tend to use the "don't ask, don't tell" system.
Bug, the biggest reason your insurance dropped so much is that you went from a coupe to a sedan. Any coupe is going to cost you.
One of the reasons we got rid of my wife's 2-door Cavalier is that it cost more to insure than her 4-door SLS, even though the Caddy was worth 4X as much.
And, it doesn't matter what "league" the car's in... I'm telling you that my tuner version of the Contour costs the same as a standard Contour. That's not conjecture, it's fact.
It's not inconcievable that other tuner sedans could get the same deal, but we don't know because the CTSv doesn't exist yet.
These things vary from car to car. He told me that there is one "symbol" difference between a Corvette Z06 and standard Corvette.
The price difference for one symbol is quite small... one would have to have 2 to 3 symbols difference before there would be a significant cost hit. With Vette rates what they are, he says the owner probably wouldn't even notice.
M3 vs 330Ci is an example of that - there's 2 symbols difference there. Using those as examples, CTSv should be 1 or 2 symbols higher. He also said that a huge difference will result from it being a sedan.
$396 isn't to much higher than mine. I am a twenty year old living in California driving a 2000 Honda Accord Coupe, with Gieco insurance. I pay around $300 a month. I really hate how the insurance comnpanies treat younger drivers!
Bingoman, can you elaborate. I assume your referring to younger drivers weaving in and out of lanes and tailgating. Well I don't know where your from, but if you want to get home in less than 2 hours on 101 here in San Jose, "young" type driving is what you must do. I personally don't weave in and out of lanes, but I pay the price when I get behind some 80 year old lady in a Buick Roadmaster.
I think the problem is that younger people tend to driver overly fast for in certain driving conditions. My problem is that older people drive to slow, and on the freeways here in the bay area, both can cause accidents.
By the way, young drivers have nothing on drivers with cell phones.
Comments
The CTS is premium fuel recommended, which means you can use 87 octane for 99% of situations and have no problems. The engine calibration was optimized for premium fuel - so for maximum 0 - 60 times, quarter miles, etc., premium fuel will have a positive effect. Also for cars used in very high ambient temperatures (like Phoenix in July), premium fuel will eliminate engine knocking during launch. Bottom line, for everyday driving in Michigan, I'd use 87.
04CTSV,
I like your ID! We've announced the CTS-V will be available late 03 / early 04 calendar year (doesn't mean dealers aren't taking orders - I don't know). More specific info to follow, but I don't think you'll be disappointed.
Gasoline Octane
Use premium unleaded gasoline with a posted octane of 91 or higher for best performance. You may also use middle grade or regular unleaded gasoline rated at 87 octane or higher, but your vehicle’s acceleration may be slightly reduced. If the octane is less than 87, you may get a heavy knocking noise when you drive. If it is bad enough, it can damage your engine.....
I've been using the expensive stuff because I thought I had to, but now I'm wondering if I should try downgrading and see if I notice any difference in performance. If I drive my usual 18k miles per year and continue to get the 21.5 mpg I seem to be getting, I figure I would save about $85 per year at a differential of about $.10 per gallon between high and low octane. What do you think? Is it enough to warrant using lower octane?
BTW, I thought the current engine is 220 hp.
I use 91 octane and I feel the car does O.K. I may try 87 octane again in the spring. I did try it for two tankfulls but I can't remember why I switched back to 91. Maybe the performance?
Sure, the tires last only 25K miles and I could save a few bucks on gas by getting lower octane, but I bought the car for performance and am not going to sacrifice that to save a few bucks.
Anyone who can afford a new CTS can certainly afford the gas. I know when I get mine, I will continue to buy high octane gas and sticky tires.
I have used 87 octane exclusively and reside in the Greater Phoenix Metro area. I respect pmdriver's very excellent report but I have not experienced any "knock" upon acceleration. I do, however, believe that condition is very possible and others may not have been as fortunate as I in this regard. Perhaps others in the Phoenix area can relate their experience.
As regards performance, the power train works just fine for me. I've never been embarrassed in the city or on the e-ways (5,000 mile RT Phoenix/Detroit included in 14,500 miles). Given my experience I've never considered a higher octane fuel. I have always been a believer that one should use the lowest octane fuel that does not cause the engine to "knock"
I would like to hear from CTS drivers who have used a range of octane fuels and may have some empirical data to share.
As to the octane issue, of course another $85 per year won't be missed, but I hate to pxxs away $$$$ out the exhaust pipe (of should I say "up in smoke?). If the performance difference is not perceptible and there is no harm in using the lower rated fuel, why not do it? I will be taking a 1000 miles drive next weekend and will fill up with 87 oct., then keep a close eye and ear to performance. I'll fill up with 91 for the return and compare my subjective impressions.
In my post 1882 I was not trying to be CHEAP by asking about the octane level used in the CTS but I agree with your opinion mcgreenx, why send it out the exhaust. I had heard several opinions and just wanted more info.
So for regfootball and eaton53, yes a luxury driver can afford the extra pennies!!
mcgreenx- we'll be waiting to heard about your road trip and the difference in 87 or 91.
CTS looked good and the whole modern line up on the bridge in attach formation was pretty slick. The 1 1/2 minute spot with the guy on the subway was interesting also.
Runner-up was the one in the cloudlike mist.
Third was the subway 17th St.
But my favorite ad of the game was the Bud Light "Upside Down Clown," that on one advertising site, that has many of the spots available to view, is call the "Butt Drinker."
mcgreenx : Everyone in the room howled at that Bud Lite commercial. It was brilliant!
You can see the ads here (the Clown is named "Clown Suit," which is probably more genteel than "Butt Drinker"):
http://www.usatoday.com/money/advertising/2003-super-bowl-ad-mete- r-chart.htm
bigdaddy : 3.6L sounds sweet. I got my CTS brochure in the mail last week and I was drooling over it on the weekend. No money for it now, but it's definitely on my radar for a new car in a few years.
I bought a dealer demo with 6K km. (3.7K miles) for CAN$45K (US$28.8K). This was roughly CAN$5K (US$3.2K) off of the Canadian sticker price for a Deluxe model with all of the available options except the Nav system. I wanted to buy new but there were no dealers in the surrounding area that had any on their lot. In fact, I have seen only one other CTS on the road since I purchased mine. Talk about feeling special eh!
Somehow I have accumulated another 9K km (5.5K miles) over the past 5 months. That's a lot of trips to the corner store. Most of these miles have been trouble free with the exception of a couple of problems that were quickly rectified by the Caddy dealer.
1. The spare wheel well in the trunk filled up with water after a heavy rain due to a defective seal in the d/s tail light assembly. They also put in brand new carpeting in the trunk without being requested to do so which I thought was above and beyond.
2. Minor transmission fluid leak due to a defective seal. Only took the dealer a few days to get the part.
Last week we had a quick thaw with very messy driving conditions and found that my headlight washers were not working. I haven't yet gone to the dealer to address this problem.
Some deficiencies that I think could be improved on in future models. These are definitely not life threatening but a bit annoying.
1. The analog clock has never been in sync with its digital counterpart on the DIC.
2. The location and size of the glove box.
3. The lack of pockets in the sun visors and depth of the storage space located in the doors.
4. The truck lid is very heavy and difficult to lift especially if it's covered with ice.
5. I love the looks of the square front end but in the summer you can't go far without it being plastered with bugs. Perhaps a bit more of a slant would remedy this or install a coating of some kind that is easier to clean.
I have read every message posted to this site and found it to be a valuable source of information to all current and prospective CTS owners. I would like to thank everyone for their contributions.
At 25 yrs rates drop considerably if you have a good driving record and can prove responsibility, ie; long time on the same job, good credit history, solid checking account experience, and oh don't forget the spouse. Keeping the same insurance company also helps. The longer with one company the better the rates.
It took a lot of years for my rates to come down, even after 25 yrs due to no spouse, driving 70-100K miles per year, and of course a ticket or three along the way. Leaving the country for five years also helped.
In my opinion, all offered resale values are too low. They never seem to offer me what "I" think the car is worth. Which is probably why I don't trade when I purchase a new vehicle. One thing for sure, I love driving my CTS. Don't think I'll trade it either.
thebug...
Having 4 doors is very good for insurance rates.
For CTS resale, see X-type and Lincoln LS V-6.
I specifically asked my agent about it when I bought the car. He said it didn't matter, a Contour's a Contour.
Insurance rates are governed by several factors. The biggest is probably supply and demand. In that I mean, if you purchase a car that is in the top five of those being stolen, then you will probably take a hit for that. If you live in a zip code with a high rate of motor vehicle accidents or high crime this will effect your rates. Type of vehicle (how others are driving this vehicle and age group popularity), engine size, average miles driven, the town/city where the car is garaged are all contributing factors to insurance rates.
An example of this is back in the 80's, I was going to purchase a Chevy Monte Carlo, and for some reason I changed my mind and purchased a Volvo instead. The insurance rate dropped by $1200 per year although the Volvo cost hundreds more, engine size and power were similar. When I questioned why, the response was Monte Carlo's are on the top ten list of stolen cars, and those buying Volvo's are least likely to race or drive it hard, and additionally Volvo's are rarely stolen ("because they are ugly", a direct quote from the insurance person). I bought it anyway.
Today I target cars with strong theft deterrents as with those offered by Cadillac on the CTS. I only pay $396 per month full coverage, $500 deductible and that's very good for my zip code and annual milage, and now super clean driving record. I took advantage of all the discounts. Ask when you update your policy, there are many you may not know about, and they tend to use the "don't ask, don't tell" system.
thebug...
Bug, the biggest reason your insurance dropped so much is that you went from a coupe to a sedan. Any coupe is going to cost you.
One of the reasons we got rid of my wife's 2-door Cavalier is that it cost more to insure than her 4-door SLS, even though the Caddy was worth 4X as much.
And, it doesn't matter what "league" the car's in... I'm telling you that my tuner version of the Contour costs the same as a standard Contour. That's not conjecture, it's fact.
It's not inconcievable that other tuner sedans could get the same deal, but we don't know because the CTSv doesn't exist yet.
These things vary from car to car. He told me that there is one "symbol" difference between a Corvette Z06 and standard Corvette.
The price difference for one symbol is quite small... one would have to have 2 to 3 symbols difference before there would be a significant cost hit. With Vette rates what they are, he says the owner probably wouldn't even notice.
M3 vs 330Ci is an example of that - there's 2 symbols difference there. Using those as examples, CTSv should be 1 or 2 symbols higher. He also said that a huge difference will result from it being a sedan.
If not, I don't want to even be in the same state with you or your insurance agent.
Read the L.A. Times reports of stupid accidents and you will know the reason the insurance companies treat younger drivers the way they do.
I think the problem is that younger people tend to driver overly fast for in certain driving conditions. My problem is that older people drive to slow, and on the freeways here in the bay area, both can cause accidents.
By the way, young drivers have nothing on drivers with cell phones.