Cadillac CTS/CTS-V

Robberbarron

Has anyone else been really frustrated with the unflexibility of the options on this car? I would really like to get one, but all I want is the base car plus sunroof and heated seats. To get either of those options, I have to spring for either the luxury package or the Luxury Sport package, neither of which contain the specific options I actually want.

calicadi

Check out this rather scientific explanation:

http://www.car-videos.com/articles/horsepower_torque.asp

I'm neither scientist nor engineer, but my lay understanding is that horsepower is the measure of the amount of available force and torque is the measure of that force in action. In autombile engines, the ratio between HP and torque helps describe relative efficency, but it can depend on where (engine or drive wheel) you measure it.

Because HP and torque measurements can be a little slippery, if you're interested in comparative numbers, compare also the displacement (cubic inches or liters) to horsepower, and the horsepower to weight ratio, across different types of cars. Heavy cars need big horsepower and torque numbers just to move. Lightweight cars with lesser engines can perform very well.

trichard2

Robberbarron: It has been my experience that the ability to choose options one by one to suit ones exact needs/desires has long since gone by the boards. I believe this is true for most if not all manufactures. I attribute it to a marketing strategy that somehow works for the manufactures. In short, it isn't peculiar to Cadillac.

sevenfeet0

Indeed, this issue has been discussed around here for awhile. It's not uncommon for automakers to pigeonhold a buyer into packages. It raises the profit margin for the car by selling the customer options they may not want, and holds down manufacturing costs by limiting the variations of builds that come out of the factory.

Personally, I had thought that given the option levels on the CTS, that most people would probably get the luxury version anyway. To me, it has a nice mid-range of features without getting completely stupid on price. But my dealer corrected me by pointing out that half of their sales are for base CTS's, not luxury models. She said that more likely than not, their buyers want to get out of the dealership not paying more than $32K. And that means a base car. And the base car does not come with a sunroof, nor can one be ordered. Heated seats can be ordered with the base car though.

fjk57702

the torque that an engine puts out is usually more or less constant from about 2000 RPM's to 5000 RPM's. Not exactly constant though! A good engine design should give you 90% (or more) of the peak torque from about 1500 RPM's through 6000 RPMs. The horsepower is the torque times the speed that the engine is turning divided by 5252 using english units (ft-lbs and RPMs).

The current CTS engine has a peak torque of 218 ft-lbs and makes 220 hp @6000 RPMs. The torque @6000 rpm's is 192.5 ft-lbs (about 88% of peak). The new 3.6 liter V6 is supposed to have 90% from 1600 to 5800 RPMs. The peak torque 250 ft-lbs@2500 RPMs and 260 hp @6500 RPMs. At 5800 RPM's this new engine will have 248 HP and at 6500 RPM's it will have 210 ft-lbs of torque. It will have 225 ft-lbs of torque @1600 RPM's. I would guess that the current CTS engine has less than 90% of its peak torque below 2000 RPM's.

eaton53

Put in an aftermarket sunroof. Many of them have backlit controls, multiple position memory, one touch operation and auto closing.

akirby

Does the CTS have a global open/close feature that operates on all the windows and sunroof? If so then an aftermarket sunroof won't be tied into that system. Other than that a good aftermarket sunroof can be just as good as the factory unit. Can be is the operative phrase though - it can also be much worse depending on the quality of the unit and the installer.

Robberbarron

I understand packages, but why tie those 2 items -- things that aren't included in *any* package -- to the luxury or luxury sport package. In almost any other car you can at least get the sunroof by itself.

fjk57702

I think that Cadillac is pricing the base CTS at a money losing price expecting most people to want at least some of the options that force them to get one of the packages.

cadman88

No, on fully loaded CTS's (40K), Cadillac makes 7K. So it costs them 33K to make a 40K car.
I would hope that it doesn't cost them only 1-3K less to build a base car.

mcgreenx

Took my CTS in today for the first (6,052 miles) oil change and to service the Check Coolant Level message problem. The service report says: "2K improperly sealed. Pressure test cooling system, replace oil cooler and reseal rear manifold. Top off coolant. Pressure test after repair. No leaks evident." Hope this works, but I saw no evidence of a continuing leak of coolant. The level was down about an inch or two, but has stayed there. The service writer gave me the air bubble explanation in the morning, claimed that "burping" the radiator usually clears the problem. Time will tell.

Hmmm. Wonder what "2K" means. 2000 doesn't make sense.

gambit293

I'm not sure how long these have been posted, but trailers and pics for the next Matrix movie are available at http://www.whatisthematrix.com .

The CTS is the vehicle that will be used in what is supposed to be the mother of all car chase scenes.

Most of the pics and clips I've seen show the CTS all shot to hell.

At any rate, this should be very nice publicity for Cadillac and GM for that matter.

The movie is still five months away... can't wait!

tablanke

I now have 2000 miles on my CTS - still lovin it, but I have noticed one bothersome item: When at idle, I can feel the engine "bump" a bit every 10-20 seconds.

It is like an accessory coming on - and is worse/more frequent if the A/C is on. My idle speed is 650 and varies only slightly when this occurs.

Any ideas? Is 650 rpm (by dash tach) correct?

richw5

First oil change yesterday at 7639 miles. The oil was only down a fraction and lightly colored. The oil change monitor showed about 2% oil life left.
I was disappointed that monitor didn't start telling me (nav display) that I had 10% oil life left.

Cost ($32). I asked if there were any service specials and the service consultant said, "no". When I got home the dealers monthly flyer was in the mail without an oil change coupon. The service consultant was correct. They usually have a special for $24.95.

As usual, they were prompt and courteous (an hour for the oil change and rotation of the tires) and they test drove the car then washed it. I'm pleased with this dealer and they treat me right.

They were down to 6 CTS's on the lot. One customer was buying as I walked into the showroom and a second customer took his son for a test drive (looking for a stick). The sales man I talked to said, that they've been selling very well.

Drove on light snow (very slick and icy)yesterday. Bad news!! But I would have had the problem with any car. They don't do well on ice. I slid through one intersection and the traction and stability systems turned on. Needless to say, I slowed down.

Rich

dindak

Just picked up the new Motor Trend.

There is a cool picture of Bryan Adams taking a picture of Robert Plant in front of an XLR. I take it this will be used for the XLR or a general Cadillac print ad at some point.

bigdaddycoats

to finance offers on the CTS. 5.9% financing on all Cadillacs. Over 4000 CTSs sold in December, 37000 for the year. Great first year numbers.

bigdaddycoats

December 4623
Year 37976

b4z

Which beats Cateras best year of about 25,000.

dindak

They still have 1.9% 48 month financing up here until mid January.

oldsman01

Welcome to the Volunteer state!! I'm in Knoxville and yes, TN has tons of different license plates you can get. I like the Environmental one with the ducks the best. But hey, if I had a wife that let me buy a CTS and home theatre components, I'd let her get any plate she wants. BTW, does she have a younger sister:) J/K. Anyway, glad to hear your still enjoying the CTS. I've never lived in Nashville so I'm not familiar with the dealers there to recommend one.

oldsman01

Being as the CTS has been on sale for nearly a year now, it seems to bode well for the car and the new chassis that there aren't many major flaws or problems with the car. Looking in some of the other forums(i.e. Oldsmobile Intrigue) one will see several chronic problems which many seem to have. Other than a few isolated problems and some complaints about lack of power and lack of a temp gauge, the CTS seems like it was done right out of the box. Not bad for a first year model built on a brand new platform at a brand new plant. Cadillac really does seem to be a beacon for GM(and the US auto industry) as the rest of their divisions still need some improvement.

thebug

Thanks calicadi and fjk57702 for the detailed explanations of hp and torque. I had to print these examples so that I could play with the numbers to make it make sense. Thirty days of driving my CTS and not one problem to be had. Just reached 3000 miles, and time for the first oil change. Oil life reads 48%. One thing for sure, this car is much faster now, than it was on the first day of driving. Had to blow the doors off an Audi A4 (maybe 2002) the other day. I guess he just wanted to see what a CTS could do. The sports mode proved to be very instrumental in the dusting. Cadillac has truly hit the mark with this model. Since my CTS purchase, two of my colleagues have made a purchase. Theirs are due at the end of January. Face it, it's an awesome car, no doubt about it! "GO BROWNS"

beach15

Here is a link with oodles of pics of all the new cars unveiled at the Detroit Auto Show. Particularly notable are the Cadillac SRX and XLR. There are several pics of the new SRX and it is clear that it is a virtual "CTS morphed into an SUV". That, and I would venture to say, that since the interior of the SRX and CTS are very close if not identical (dash & door panels), some of it's touches may be what's instore for the 2004 CTS. Namely, the wood trimmed center stack and the classy chrome and wood trimmed shifter and console.

All pics:

http://www.autonews.com/files/2003_detroit/03detroitshowart/

Just go to GM and then Cadillac to find the SRX & XLR.

sevenfeet0

Santa Claus came a little late this year :-)

http://msnbc.com/news/854650.asp?0bl=-0

http://www.wieck.com/public/*2PV_046892

mannytranny

Bigdaddycoats..................
I got to see the article . Great news. I guess that I might wait to see the CTS V and/or the 2005 CTS before doing a trade.
I wonder if all that got a 3.2L will trade away. It will make for a good used market. Is this a good way to get more used CTS cars into the marketplace ? Seems that maybe it will encourage the younger crowd to take notice.
But will this make for a greater depreciation and less on a trade in?

sevenfeet0

Judging from some of the photos here and on www.wieck.com, it looks like the SRX isn't getting performance gauges, but instead has the exact same instrument cluster as the CTS.

On the other hand, the huge glass sunroof looks very nice.

Hmmmm....

bigdaddycoats

In the SRX it looks as though the clock is still there? That needs to go away. Also, it looks like the volume control wheel on the steering wheel is gone. I personally thought that was a nice feature. Chances are that the SRX being shown is not in its final form (pre-production model) and some changes may still be made.

bigdaddycoats

The preliminary specs on the 3.6 V6 for the SRX is 260hp @ 6500 rpm and 252lb-ft of torque @ 2800 rpm. Lots of torque at low rpms. Hope it will be the same in the CTS. Will come with a 5spd automatic with "driver shift control" - their manumatic. Hopefully the CTS gets this as well.

akirby

I know this isn't the SRX forum - but any specs on the SRX V8?

cadillac1

CADILLAC SRX PRELIMINARY SPECIFICATIONS (V8)

Vehicle type luxury utility - 5 passenger; third row seat available (7 passenger)
Model year 2004; launch: second quarter 2003
Layout front engine, rear-wheel-drive luxury utility (AWD available)
Engine 4.6 L Northstar V8 VVT DOHC, 4 valves per cylinder, 4-cam variable valve timing, 10.5:1 compression ratio
Horsepower 315 hp @ 6400 rpm
Torque 310 lbs.-ft. @ 4400 rpm
Transmission Hydra-Matic 5L50-E five-speed electronically controlled automatic with driver shift control
Final drive ratio 3.23:1
Curb weight RWD: 4295 lbs (V8); AWD: 4430 lbs (V8)
Overall length 194.9 inches
Wheelbase 116.4 inches
Height 65.8 base; 67.8 with roof rack
Width 72.6 inches
Towing 1000 lbs (base); 3500 lbs (optional)
Wheels 18 x 8-inch cast aluminum
Tires - V8 Michelin All-Season Radial P235/60R18 (front)
Michelin All Season Radial P255/55R18 (rear)

tvdirec

Hey everyone,
Just drove my new CTS in snowy conditions for the first time. I must say it handled very well and I wasn't in the "winter" mode either. Traction was very good.
I don't like leaving work and having a brand new car in the lot with snow and a little ice all over it. I'm glad to have my garage which is great for melting any remaining snow over a 6-12 hour period.
Still burning premium unleaded...even though the current price here in Connecticut is $1.87.
Car runs great. Can't wait for spring.

shifty4

I also have the same or similar problem. I get an occasional flutter or miss usually when sitting at a light, in drive, and primarily prior to full warmup.
I will be going in for an oil change next week and plan to report this problem. The second problem is valve train noise, sounds like a Singer sewing machine while mildly accellerating.
I will post the response.

Robberbarron

According to the artical on MSN about the detroit autoshow. CTS-v is confirmed at 400hp.

cadman88

That is official, Gary Cowger announced it.

mcgreenx

This is an excerpt from the link above about the new $250,000 V-16 Caddy just unveiled:

"....But GM had already committed $4 billion to reviving the Cadillac lineup with an edgy new look. Lutz hated it. He even went public with his dislike of the knife-edged styling of the new $30,000 Cadillac CTS. Lutz’s aversion to the stealth-fighter look didn’t play well. “I told Bob, ‘You’re wrong on this’,” says Gary Cowger, GM’s North American president...."

macguy

MY BLUE CTS Lux Sport had a thumb noise coming from the front left shock since it rolled off the dealer ground. I discounted that at first, but at 3000 miles the thumb developed into a loud knock. The dealer said it is a bad shock absorber. Since it has been only 2 months since the car's introduction to Saudi markets, the dealer has no spare shock parts in stock and had to order one all the way from the US. My car have been in the shop since 2 weeks and probably will take at least another. In the mean time they loaned me a 2002 DTS. After 2 weeks in the DTS I find my self very board with it. The NorthStar 300 hp is nice, so does the lumbar support and massaging seats. But it feels old news already. My kids think that i have changed cars and they are hating it (3 boys). The elder objected to me driving him in the DTS, he used to show off to his friends the CTS every-time I drive him to school. The DTS is very potent and stable in hard corners (although it has tons of body role), but it just looks and feel like old news.

bingoman

I finally got myself a digital camera. Now, as soon as I figure out how to use it, and how to move a file to my computer, I will be able to show you a picture of the grill on my CTS painted to match the body color. Wish me luck, it may take a couple of weeks.

oldsman01

Hate to hear about your car being in the shop so long, I know the feeling. My Intrigue went in Christmas Eve for a power steering fluid leak(pressure line had ruptured) and I finally got it back yesterday. With you being in Saudi Arabia and the CTs being very new there, I can understand the wait better than mine since the Intrigue is born and bred right here in the USA and has been on the streets for 5 years now. And having a 4 banger Alero which was "Electric Blue" didn't help either. At least you've got a very nice Caddy loaner, even if it is "old news." As for your boys, I figure they would enjoy the added room of the DTS. I just had one sibling and I would have loved a car the size fof the DTS to ride around in when I was young. I would imagine that the DTS is not as responsive as the CTS, but for a big car they handle pretty well. While my driving tastes lean toward a CTS, I'd be perfectly happy with a black or dark blue DTS. Now just imagine that Northstar engine in the CTS's chassis. That will be the 2004(5) STS hopefully:)

calicadi

I believe the bump you feel is the a/c compressor engaging and disengaging. It's my understanding that when in Auto climate control mode, the compressor will cycle on and off periodically, regardless the thermostat setting. When the thermostat determines it's time to cool, then you'll sense an increase in how often you feel that bump. A possible test is to turn the Auto mode off and see if it stops bumping completely. I have heard it said (and have every reason to believe as I've lost two compressors in other vehicles) that it's better to leave it in Auto mode and let the compressor cycle periodically. The lubricant for the compressor's moving parts is in the refrigerant. If not operated for a period of time the seals and moving parts are susceptible to damage from lack of lubrication. Think if the bump as preventive maintenance. If it's real harsh, the service department should check the tension on the drive belt and possibly the compressor shaft for excessive end-play.

bigdaddycoats

does not have a single CTS in stock and the next closest only has 3 or so - usually each have about 20 in stock. Must still be selling well. Someone said the CTSv has 400hp, where did that information come from?

cadman88

Gary Cowger's mouth, so that means it is official.

Man, the M5 may for once loose a comparison.

akirby

It will take more than a big engine to beat a M5. Besides, the next gen M5 is supposed to have 500 hp. 540i - maybe.

cadillac1

price wise, the CTSV battles the M3, not M5, so in that comparison, the Bimmer may see the agony of defeat.

richw5

calicadi - You're probably right about the CTS engine hesitation. Our CTS engine "bumps" every once in a while. In fact, I usually turn the "ac off" for the winter on any car I own. You're also correct about lubrication of the compressor. My wife adjusts the temperature a lot (hits "auto" and turns the ac on), so I don't have to worry about the compressor, but I make sure it's turned on at least once every few weeks during the winter.

bingoman - Congrats on your digital camera. I hardly ever use my 35 mm camera anymore. I'm a procrastinator at finishing a roll of film and then getting it in for developing (one roll sitting on my desk for two months right now). I bought my wife a digital for her birthday last year and it's been great. You can take as many pictures as you want and just delete any you don't like. I'm looking forward to pictures of your CTS.

It's been a great year for Cadillac. The CTS is selling at record numbers and we still get looks wherever we go. My wife is always telling me about someone staring at the CTS. I guess that's what it's all about. The CTS may not be perfect, but it's been a wonderful experience for us. I only hope Cadillac listens and improves the car, based on owner suggestions.

Rich

tablanke

I have turned off the A/C and still notice the bump - even after full warm-up. Is there another load on the engine that maybe cycling on and off?

I have not yet gotten mine to the dealer. I will keep you posted.

I did have a call from Cadillac (some survey person). They were asking how I liked the car and if there were any problems. They also asked specific questions ("have you noticed any water leaks") that tell me they are listening to feedback, making fixes, and then checking with new owners (1.5 months).

That makes great sense!

cadman88

Yes, but the M5 won't be as fast as the CTS-V.
The STS-V really will take on the 500hp V10 M5, the STS-V is probally going to get a 500hp+ V12.

b4z

The CTS V will probably weigh around 3600 lbs.
The M5 weighs every bit of 4000 lbs.
The M5 costs 35K more.
If I own a CTS V and get slightly beat by a M5 I am not going to worry about it or get my feelings hurt.

eaton53

You'd have to see one first... they're sold in very low numbers.

It will be interesting to see how many CTSv's GM offers. Vette owners who want a sedan could easily cause demand to far outstrip supply.

b4z

They are about 5 running around my area but we have 3 large hopsitals and lots of doctors making 400K.

cadman88

But you would beat him, how does a 400hp 3600lb car loose to a 394hp 4000lb car?