Cadillac CTS/CTS-V

tvdirec

Just to clarify...the Cadillac ad is supposed to be ONE :90 commercial tracing the history of the make. And, it's supposed to run early first half.
The first commercial of the half is from Anheuser-Busch again this year. Just an FYI each :30 spot is going for $2.2 million. So, Cadillac is laying out close to $7 million on ONE commercial.
Go CTS! Go Cadillac!

carnaught

Good commercial but not great, IMHO......

necros

Here are the shots from bingoman of the white CTS with the spoiler:
http://home.attbi.com/~madones/Spoiler01.jpg (434K)
http://home.attbi.com/~madones/Spoiler02.jpg (379K)

I didn't have a great pic of the front of my car, and it's cold and dark outside, so I didn't take another one, but this gives you a general idea of what a black grill ould look like on a black car. If anyone wants to supply me with the link to fav002's page where he has those great front shots of his CTS, I'd be happy to 'Shop those.
http://home.attbi.com/~madones/blackgrill.jpg

automole

I saw a black CTS w/ painted black grill parked at the local outlet mall last weekend. It looked good. My observation would be that if you liked the look of the white w/white grill you would also like the black. My personal opinion is that the matching grill color would only look good on a white, black, or silver CTS.

Although I thought it looked nice, I have a black CTS and have no intention of running out and painting my grill to match the body color. The CTS is a good looking car as it comes from the factory stock. My only gripe is that the 16" wheels on the base model CTS are much too small and 18"'s would look better.

logic1

In the Chicago area Diamond White is probably second to Silver in buyer preference.

I really like the white. The paint has a translucent quality that seems almost 3D.

cu95

I've been lurking on this board for a little while and have been enjoying the conversations.

I'm going to be buying a new car in May/June-ish and the CTS is the current front runner. I was wondering if anyone had thoughts on the following:

Does Stabilitrack make a meaningful improvement for a regular driver? I'm probably best described as "conservative aggressive" (that may be a contradiction) driver, I'll push the car some but am not likely to try to find it's limit. I'll be in the Northeast so winter driving is certain.

With the possible purchase scheduled for this summer, will I be able to push hard for a discount if I by from dealer inventory? It seems like being so close to the 2004 model rollout and all the talk of new engines and other "fixes" that the resale value on the 2003 is going to be butchered and dealers will be hard pressed to push their remaining 2003 CTS inventory. (I'd wait for the 2004's if I could but will need a car no later than July.) Also, when will GM likely stop delivering 2003's to dealers?

Thanks in advance.

necros

My good friend is the "car guy" for both the Denver Business Journal and KWGN News. Today on KWGN, he reviewed the CTS.

I spoke to him earlier this week, and he was hoping that he'd get a manual to test, and he did. Manual with LuxSport, nav system, in black. He gave it a great review. For the positives, he cited:
1) Manual transmission
2) Fun to drive/handling
3) Velvety-smooth shifting
For negatives:
1) Parking brake release (I think we all agree)
2) Love it or hate it styling (he likes it)
3) Nav system (being so in your face, he felt it was distracting to drivers)

Unlike most car reviewers, he liked the interior, as did the anchor (as do I). I've had other people mention that they loved it. So, interior-bashers, don't assume that everyone agrees with you.

I'll see him on Friday, so I'll have to thank him for raising the CTS's image. I must say it's nice having an auto reviewer for a friend. I get to drive lots of cool cars. Next week, BMW Z4...

necros

From what I understand, StabiliTrak has more value for a regular driver. I personally don't want the invisible hand of god guiding my car. I want to drive it at its limits, and be in control at all times. If I'm sliding sideways, it's because I want to slide sideways, and I don't want the computer correcting it. Others who don't push it will probably appreciate the assistance StabiliTrak provides. Also, based on my non-StabiliTrak-equipped CTS in the snow, you want StabiliTrak. I basically don't drive my CTS when it snows any more (I have a Toyota Celica AllTrac Turbo for that).

randpall3863

Since the CTS has a unibody, rather than a full frame, it is too light for just RWD. If it either had a full frame or FWD, I would highly recommend it. But it does not.

  Too many of us have had problems with unibody RWD's. We found they can only be driven on dry terrain. They are no good on wet or snow-covered roads. It is control, performance and traction.

  Unless GM adds one or the other to this, I highly recommend to avoid this car!

b4z

What are you talking about?

eaton53

A 2WD truck with a full frame that sucked in the snow... I put Blizzaks on it and it did fine.

The type of frame has nothing to do with it.

cu95

Necros, thanks for the feedback. I should have mentioned in my prior post that I plan to get the automatic (not sure if that would affect the answer to my question). At first blush I thought that the Stabilitrack was for the "enthusiasts" but I see what you're saying --the enthusiasts want as much control as possible, but Stabilitrack takes some that away. Regarding snow, I was under the impression that the traction control that all the CTS models have was the main defense against slippery conditions and that it did a respectable job in the snow. Sounds like that's not the case in your experience. Still not sure if I want to plunk down the extra few grand for the SportLux package for the sake of Stalilitrack.

randpall3863

Taking one issue at a time. I will deal first with the one with the RWD truck with a full frame. Did you add weight to the bed? One does not need to to a car or SUV with a full frame. It is RWD. Their weights are better balanced out.

  I will now deal with the traction, control and performance. Several of us have owned unibody RWD cars. Mine was a Toyota Corona. It was replaced by the FWD Camry. It handled well on dry roads. But it did not on wet ones. I got rid of the Toyota. I got a unibody FWD.

  Another friend had a unibody RWD Thunderbird. It had the same problems as my Toyota. He got rid of it and got a unibody FWD.

  Two friends had unibody RWD BMW's. They had the same problems. They got rid of them. They were replaced with 4WD and AWD SUV's.

  One friend still has a unibody RWD Porsche. It has a 5-speed manual. He only drives it when it is dry and warm. It is why.

  I currently own a RWD with a full frame. It is as well as an on-demand 4WD SUV with a full frame. Both in RWD stick to the road better than any of the unibody RWD's covered. It includes the CTS. Even GM agrees with me. It is why the 2004's may have FWD. They told me they are seriously considering it. Need I say more? NOT!

andys120

that the rwd CTS which has been a big success in penetrating the sport sedan market for GM, will be dropped in favor of a FWD car.

You're cuckoo! That is not going to happen GM is moving to more unibody rwds, not fewer.

At least you're not still telling us the type of bumper has anything to do with snow traction.

necros

cu95: Traction control works great for what it can do, but it's not sophisticated enough to do the stuff StabiliTrak does to keep you going in a straight line on slippery surfaces. I would just recommend the StabiliTrak for that added peace of mind in the snow. It also doesn't help that I'm running on "agressively heat-cycled" tires (from autocross). They don't grip that well.

randpall3868: Blah blah blah. You have friends who can't drive on slippery surfaces. That's great. However, the plural of anecdote is not data. You have my respectful request to provide some actual evidence that the frame of the car has to do with handling in snow or go away.

I suspect we'll be hearing next, "IRS doesn't work in the snow! I have a 4wd truck with a solid rear axle and it's great in the snow! Much better than my Dodge Viper!"

richw5

Wait for a snowy day (week) and contact your local dealer for a test drive of the CTS. Tell them that you'd like to drive the CTS in the snow, but your purchase date will probably be June/July. If they turn you down, go to another dealer, the first dealer didn't want the sale anyway. Talk to the sales manager, not just a salesman. He will probably be there in six months, when you're ready to buy, sales people come and go.

Let us know if it works out......if it doesn't, someone else probably suggested it, not me.

Rich

bingoman

I love that line, "The plural of anecdote is not data." My thought exactly.

As to your friend's dislike of the parking brake, I learned, after one hood pop, to put my thumb on the top edge of the lower panel when reaching for the brake release, insuring that I was not near the hood release. Also, my wife used to complain that I applied the old hand brake lever so hard that she could not release the brake after I had driven the car.

I have not found the navigation screen distracting. I wonder if he has it properly set to go to night colors when the headlights go on.

eaton53

With proper snow tires the truck did not need it. Before the Blizzaks, it would get stuck very easily even with weight.

oldsman01

And just exactly where did you hear GM was considering making the 04s FWD? Do tell, inquiring minds want to know. I think several CTS owners have driven theirs in the snow and can post on how they did.

wale_bate1

I'm afraid I may have to blatantly plagiarize that line for personal use.

****

Four stars my friend.

loyaltogm1

Still want a CTS,(eat,sleep, and dream about it) but can't decide, wait for the 04 or go for the 03. Anyone know a rough estimate of when the 04s will be out and will the resale value of the 03 be that terrible?????

vcjumper

LOL!

thebug

I've been driving for many years, as many of you have. Over a million miles easy. That fact remains that I don't worry about having traction control or stabilitrak, because I learned to drive long before any of these computer control systems were even thought about. Been both in and out many wicked skids, some that I don't care to remember. One thing for sure, I've always managed to correct them without much difficulty, or causing harm to any other driver. Thus, knowing how to drive (a lost art) may be a feature you may wish to take alone on your winter drives. Trust me, it really comes in handy. In my profession we have a rule of thumb, "NEVER TRUST A MACHINE". That very rule has and will save many lives.

thebug...

sevenfeet0

We have a cave troll within our midst. His arguments are specious. His logic is ridiculous. I think we can safely ignore him.

eaton53

I think the X-type and Lincoln LS V-6 will be decent predictors.

mannytranny

     I have read the posts about RWD and FWD on the CTS. Before FWD most cars were RWD in the USA.
     I have not had some of the problems that others feel come from driving a CTS without StabiliTrak. Maybe years of driving a manual transmission makes the difference.I had to actually drive differently from what I would normally do in the snow to get the Traction control to engage. I am only trying to imagine the different feel in an automatic trans and the need for StabiliTrak.
      When I purchased my CTS I drove both with and without the Stabiltrak. I just didn't like the fact that I wasn't in full control and that I would be 'saved' by this feature. The salesman let me take the test cars on windy roads of my choice and I drove each the same (the salesperson just sat there quietly praying)same turns, same speeds and I made my choice. He did say when we got back to the dealership that he didn't know a CTS could be driven like that.
     Just think of all of the other cars on the road that don't have traction control or StabiliTrak. How do they get around in the snow? I think that " thebug " may have a point.
     In Europe how many FWD cars are there?

cu95

Thanks for your thoughts. I grew up and learned to drive in rural New England and have thus had my share of snow driving without the benefit of any "smart" car features, although I'm thinking back on whether any of those cars were RWD and I don't think they were. For the last 10 years I've been driving 4WD SUVs (yep, I'm one of those guys) which have made tackling the snow fairly easy. Hopefully what I know will translate to a RWD car with or without traction control/Stabilitrack.

MannyTranny, I'm curious, do you disable the traction control when driving aggressively? I've read that people do that because they feel the traction control robs the car of it's oomph through a sharp corner.

There's only two things missing on the base CTS that you get with the SportLux package that I'd miss: the 17" wheels (no surprise) and the compass, I really like having a compass (but that can be rectified with $50 on an electronic compass).

b4z

Click on randpall3863's login name and see what he has to say about himself.
It is interesting to say the least.
Definitely a different way to look at things.

fjk57702

I will say that I think FWD is more stable on slippery roads. However, I don't think RWD is worse on a unibody than on a body on frame. A RWD with a good weight distribution should be better than one that has more weight on the front wheels. In winter, winter tires will do a lot for RWD to improve traction on icy roads.

mannytranny

Yes, I do disable traction when driving aggressively. However, most of the time on local roads I just don't drive that fast. I think the local cops are just waiting. During the test drive,.....oh, well
     I did disable traction control when I went to the drag races. First run was with, second run was without. There was a DIFFERENCE. The third run I definetly kept it off.
     I even drove in the snow on an empty parking lot with it disabled just to have fun and see what the CTS would do. I felt that this gave me a better idea of how the car will re-act and how I must adjust.

necros

Yes, I definitely drive with traction control off for autox. It makes a big difference. When I get on the gas, I want to get on the gas!

bz4: I love the dissertation in his profile. Something tells me if he went shopping for a new car, he might not get it for under Edmunds TMV.

eaton53

Just pay what the sticker on the window says... after all, the manufacturer knows best!!

mannytranny

My father-in-law has a MINT 1984 Mercury Grand Marquis that he might be selling next year. It only has 23,000 original miles on it.
     Like a blast from the past! I see that you like Mercury Grand Marquis with RWD

b4z

I'll give you 15K for that Grand Marquis, afterall they don't make 'em like that anymore.

Which begs the question, why can't I get anybody to give us $450 for my dad's '88 Caprice?

fjk57702

I think GM's unleaded engines started with the 1971 model year too.

necros

All I know is that when I took the heads on my 1968 Eldorado in, the machine shop told me they didn't need hardened valve seats to accomodate unleaded fuel because of the high nickel content in the parts. Go Cadillac!

fjk57702

In 1971 GM lowered the compression ratio's to allow the lower octane unleaded fuels to be used. In the 60's engines were tuned for fuels that had 100 octane (premium) or less for regular.

ls1bmw0

Learn how to drive and it isn't a problem.

cdnpinhead

if you already know how to drive, perhaps the feature isn't worth so much to you.

Many don't (that would be, know how to drive).

Then there's my standard point -- it's one more thing that can (and often will) break. Will it break when you most need it? Probably not. Will it break when you're not especially interested in taking the car in and dealing with the grief of warranty service? Much more likely.

oldsman01

Back in the early 80s when I was a kid, my parents had a Chevy Impala station wagon(who with kids didn't have one of those then?) and it was big, heavy, and RWD with body on frame. Seems I remember that unless my dad put tire chains on it, it didn't do too well in the snow. Heck, he used to keep large bags of de-icer salt in a storage closet at his office in case he was at work and it started to snow. Rather than use the salt to put on the sidewalks at work(as most people thought it was there for) he loaded them in the back of the wagon so it would have more weight for traction. Gotta love the pre-historic methods of traction control:) So much for the notion that those old body on frame rear drivers are better than a unibody RWD car. Funny, we've had some snow here the past few days and I've seen a number of unibody RWD cars(Lexus LS400, multiple MBs, and even a CTS) on the roads and they didn't seem to be having any problems. Oh yeah, this is in TN where I can honestly say(lived here all my life) that people DO NOT know how to drive in the snow:)

thebug, I learned how to drive in the snow about 7 years ago in a car which was FWD, but had no traction control. Having traction control now is a big advantage, but I agree that the best way to learn how to drive in the snow is without all the electronic "mother-in-law" features. There are a few times when you may actually want a little wheel spin for traction in the snow as I had to switch the TC off the other night to get up a hill. The problem was the TC was applying brake pressure to a spinning wheel(conditions were very slippery) and it was getting hot because I could smell the brake getting out. This was causing the wheel to get hot and those melt the snow when it came in contact. So switching the TC off, waiting a couple of minutes for things to cool and trying again yeilded some wheel spin, but I got up the hill.

b4z

Whether RWD or FWD the type of tires has a lot to do with it.
We had a snow in '89 and I could not get my Camaro across the sidewalk onto the street.
The tires then were Goodyear Gatorbacks.
I have Michelin Pilot XGT H4's now and the occasional snow is not a problem.

pat

necros - you need to copyright that line right now. "The plural of anecdote is not data."

PERFECT!! :-)

To all -- it has been suggested that the troll amongst us be ignored. That was a very wise suggestion. No reason for him to go away as long as he's receiving the attention he's looking for right here.

bingoman

Back in the 60's in New York and vicinity we used snow tires with carbide studs until they were outlawed because they chewed up the pavement. They were pretty good on light snow and ice.

In 30 years in Southern California I have driven on snow only once and that was when visiting a friend's cabin in the mountains.

macguy

Got my CTS back after alomst a month in the workshop to replace a bad front-left shock absorber (took that long to order and get the part all the way from the good US of A). I had a '02 DTS for a loaner. Geting into the CTS right after the DTS I have the folowing to say:

- I miss the power adjust steering wheel
- I miss the auto release brake

That is all I miss from the DTS. On the other hand

- The CTS is truly much more fun to drive
- Though for sure slower, the CTS feels snapier off the line
- The seats are much much better in the CTS, even without lumbar support
- Glad to have back the S mode transmission switch
- Glad to have back the power folding mirrors (the big DTS got face to face with a Lexus in a tight ally, the Lexus owner folded his mirrors and the DTS could not respond with the same, embarising)
- And i love the fact that i can once again U turn into my parking stall at my work in one go, no need to go in reverse and forward to get in. The CTS has an amazing tight turning radius

Really, I do not know why the complains about the 3.2 engine. It is really fun and responsive, and I am saying this after sopending a month behind a 300 hp Norhtstar, the NS felt lazy, I think largly because of the 4 speed tranny. The 5 speed on the CTS is super. Sure the 3.5 or V8 on the CTS will be much better, but so would any stronger engine in any car. The current 3.2L is a very good engine IMHO.

FYI, I did pit the DTS against my '84 2dr Olds Cutlass with its very mildly reworked 350 chevy (crate engine replacement). I was amazed to see the DTS gets dusted.

thebug

cdnpinhead: That's the point. All others, I don't envy any of you. I moved to the southwest to get out of all the snow. Just couldn't handle the six month winters anymore. Although I still live in Ohio, I don't go there in the winter unless it's ABSOLUTELY necessary. It doesn't snow in this area at all, and coming to think about it, I don't think it rains either. Not many slippery roads to deal with in these parts. I going to put the CTS on the highway (up north somewhere) this summer for about 7K or so on a joy ride. Hope to hit some inclement weather during the trip to test the CTS's ability. If I'm lucky, I'll get an assignment to Germany in early 04. Then I'll get to play with CTS on the autobahn for a few K miles.

thebug...

sonjaab

I have a set of studded snows on my 79 Buick
225 winter rat....As far as I know any tire
dealer can stud ya a pair. NY only allows
them to be used Oct.-Mar. ? Then they must
be removed during summer......Will call tire
place today and ask for sure tho.......geo

BTW: They bite like crazy although noisy !

oldsman01

I'd like to see the CTS with those features you miss as well, but more than likely that will the next gen STS. 300+ hp and RWD hooked to that wonderful 5 speed automatic(and maybe even a manual) has me looking forward to that car. The power folding outside mirrors must be an export feature as CTSs sold in the states don't have this option. In fact, the Escalade is the only vehicle I know of that offers that here. The DTS is a long distance road cruiser whereas the CTS is a true sport/luxury sedan.

loyaltogm1

Just read a post on another site which says the CTS takes 91 octane. Is this true or can you get by with regular? Still shopping and need the info. Thanks!

snrs

My repair was simaler McGreenx but still o.k.
Shortly after repair, my 76 Alfetta GT's warning was fluid on ground. I tried to get to my mechanic before lost all coolant. Big mistake. Must have scared the heck out of mechanics as I drove onto lot, smoke billowing, cutting out the sun & mechanics waving me away. Must have thought it was a terrorist attack.
Car in intensive care. Full recovery expected.
By the way, criticism on alfa was similar to CTS. 0 to 60, weird instrument layout & driving position.
Back to CTS. At 7000 mi, it's getting better as engine breaks in. Engine quieter at acceleration and more responsive. Handling & brakes always excllent. A great solid car. H.P. enough for me.
Not being a street racer, I'm amazed when cars @ stoplights next to me, screech tires and take off @ green light. Especially Altimas SE.
My only criticism is design too timid, not bold enough. As, you know who, returns to 1930,s ihope the CTS remains the distinctive line.

04ctsv

I'm looking to buy the CTS-V to replacing my failing flooded out stang..anyone have any idea when I can order when or when I will be able to get one? i was told i might be able to order one in june??? ne1 know?