Cadillac CTS/CTS-V

fjk57702

is NOT Cadillacs - it is GMs. I don't think anyone at GM ever claimed that this was some sort of ground breaking new engine design never ever seen before. The "high feature" means DOHC and VVT. Only in the last couple of years has BMW gone to double VANOS (their version of VVT).

A ground breaking design would be GM's OHV dual cam in the crankcase engine with double VVT. But you turkeys would never understand that would actually be ground breaking.

b4z

merc1 is a regular in the Lexus thread. He is just trying to get you guys worked up.

fjk57702

merc1 does have a point, the new V6 will not be a ground breaking design. It would have to have variable valve lift to set a new standard for V6 design (I don't think anyone has that on a V6 yet). Or a dual cam ohv (see above). But the new engine will, I think, be an excellent design with a lot of low end torque (better than BMW or Lexus or Infinity).

cartesio

I'm not sure whether "variable valve lift" and "variable valve timing" are the same thing, but anyway my 2003 Jag S-type has VVT...

If they are different things, could you give us a word?

Thanx!

fjk57702

The BMW 745 V8 has this. It replaces the throttle. So at idle, the intake valve open just a bit to let in enough air/fuel to let the engine idle. When you step on the accelerator, the computer adjusts the valves to open more.

The advantages are less "pumping" losses - this is what Cadillac was trying to do with the 8-6-4 engine. This is the same principle that makes the diesel efficient - no throttle.

The Vibe engine has a variable valve lift - but this is the cheap version - where at high speed you get more lift and more power (like at 8000 rpms) and at low speed, there is less lift for better (smoother) engine operation.

akirby

does NOT replace the throttle. Maybe you're confusing it with electronic throttle control which simply replaces the mechanical connection between the accelerator pedal and the throttle with the engine computer which senses the accelerator pedal position and operates the throttle accordingly. The 2003 LS also has this feature.

fjk57702

The 2003 LS does not have variable valve lift! The electronic throttle is needed because you now have variable valve timing.

fjk57702

From the March SAE Journal - The valvtronic (variable valve lift) eliminates the throttle. The intake valves vary from 0.01 to 0.38 inches (or fully closed).

Some of you need to catch up on what the latest techology is.

regfootball

Quoting the SAE journal!

I like it!

akirby

Ok, I guess variable valve lift is something new that I apparently don't know much about. I never would have thought it could replace the throttle entirely.

But I do know that variable valve timing does NOT require electronic throttle control. Lots of cars have VVT but don't have ETC. The LS VCT (variable cam timing) changes based on engine speed, not throttle input. It will work with or without ETC.

baron87

Interesting to see this where this discussion has gone. I was amused to see the hollywoodextra fakery of the next STS. I can assure you it will look nothing like that. The next STS looks, as best I can describe, like a cross between an Audi A6 and a CTS. CheersandGears had some good "educated" renderings of the 04/05 STS posted, if you are interested.

Also interesting to see CTS parts finding their way into other GM products. I wasn't aware of that. Exciting that in just a little while we'll get some definitive specifications on the SRX, XLR, and see the ESV hit the market.

merc1

Trying to get everyone worked up? Not hardly. I was asking a question because I truly didn't know much about this new V6, but as it turns out it's more of the same GM talk (i.e. not really saying much).

fjk57702,

"A ground breaking design would be GM's OHV dual cam in the crankcase engine with double
VVT. But you turkeys would never understand that would actually be ground breaking."

Huh, you'll have to explain that one to this "turkey".

M

dindak

The Toyota VVT 1.8L engine is very noisy, nothing to brag about. GM's Ecotec is a better power plant IMO.

fjk57702

I'm not quite sure what you want explained, but:
GM has a show engine with ohv's (24 - 2 intake; 1 exhaust) that are controlled by two camshafts in the crankcase. This means that there are pushrods which probably limit the top engine speed, but the timing chains are short which means that the chains don't stretch as much as OHC chains. Plus the friction is 30% less. This 4.3 liter V8 puts out 300 hp.

fjk57702

allows the exhaust timing to be adjusted to reduce emissions and maximize fuel economy by opening the throttle as much as possible. This is why Cadillac developed the 8-6-4 engine and expected it to do much better in the EPA tests. But in the EPA tests the cars run in 8 cyl mode too much.

oldsman01

I think your going a bit overboard with the low end Toyopet examples. I seriously doubt an Echo is going to have anywhere near the technology the CTS's engine has. One drive will quickly prove that:) Anyhow, I do have to agree that the new "high feature" engine isn't all that ground breaking, but neither is Infinti, Acura, MB's , or Lexus's current 6 cylinder engines. Whats also interesting is that looking through the lost of what the new V6 engine will feature, I notice most of that technology is already in use in the 3.5 liter DOHC V6 my Intrigue has. Nonetheless, I think the new 3.6 liter will be a hoot. If the CTS is as fun to drive as it is with the mere 220 hp V6, one can only imagine what 255+ horses(and more torque) will be like. And thats not even mentioning the V8 powered CTSv.

akirby

Wouldn't you get maximum fuel economy from CLOSING the throttle whenever possible? Opening the throttle will increase fuel consumption.

fjk57702

When the throttle is closed work has to be done to pull air past it. When the throttle is wide open, air moves past it with no effort. Obviously a wide open throttle would imply that the engine is able to get a maximum charge of air into the cylinder unless the exhaust valve timing is such that the cylinder is still partly full of exhaust. GM's inline 6 has no EGR valve because the variable exhaust valve timing does exactly that.

fav002

With all the snow in the past week, I had my first chance to really wring out the performance of the active handling on the CTS. Having driven many other rear wheel drive cars in the snow, I must say the capability of the CTS with both systems on board is amazing! In an empty parking lot, on 6" of unplowed snow I dumped the clutch to see what would happen...even pressing the gas pedal down to the floor resulted in very little drama as the car slowly fought for traction, and the engine RPMs stayed low. The system didn't seem very intrusive and still provided good feedback to the driver. Cornering in this deep snow was also interesting. Accelerating slowly up to speed and then cranking the wheel caused the Stabilitrac to kick in and brake each caliper independently. Maneuvers that would cause other cars to go into a major spin resulted in nothing more than minor driver corrections to get the car back on its intended course. Obviously these electronic systems can defeat the laws of physics and a really abrupt maneuver can still spin the CTS out of control. However, having them on board and realizing their capability is definitely comforting in bad weather.

b4z

According to automobile magazine it will be a full years wait before we see any on the road.
Production is scheduled to start in late '03.

Aaaargh!

mannytranny

I went out to drive as normal as could be in a 10" snow. It's been a while since I had a rear wheel drive car and all I could remember was wheel spin and fishtailing. I had to back out of the parking space that I was in and thought this would be a real problem. I went out slowly just letting the clutch out slowly and it just went. On the packed snow that others had driven on , the CTS just went. I had to try to let the clutch ouy fast just to get a reaction to see if traction control would kick in. It did only momentarily.

I don't have Stabilitrac so I don't know how that would handle. I guess that I was impressed at how the car handled in the snow. I went to a shopping center that had plowed most of the snow and looked for a parking space that was more snow covered than others. I found one that had slighly iced over and parked there. Once again I had to back up to get out and the car just went. No wheel spin or hop or anything.I kept waiting to see if Traction would kick in but it didn't indicate that it had on the panel. Parked again on slight icy patch and this time had to drive out from the front and the CTS just went.

I am going out later to see if I can find an unplowed parking lot to have some fun.

babylou

I am not a GM guy, but do like the CTS, the Vette and of course the LS6. The new "High Feature" V6 is truly a remarkable combination of technology. I can think of but a few engines that have such a list of features. The only feature missing I can think of is variable valve lift. Many Honda engines (binary), one Toyota engine (binary) and one BMW engine (continuosly variable) have variable valve lift. However, each of these engines also lack several technologies that the GM engine has.

In addition to what was mentioned in earlier posts the new engine also has:

1. A new ECU that is 1/2 the size and weight that can be mounted onto the engine instead of in the cabin. This is a big advantage for packaging, assembly and weight reduction. Shorter wire runs also lead to more reliability. The 32 bit system is not surpassed by any engine.
2. A truly simple continuosly variable cam phasing system that is compact, simple and cheap. Some competitor cam phasing systems add significant length or cost.
3. A dual resonance intake plenum that fattens the torque curve.
4. Despite what was said earlier piston cooling jets are the exception, not the norm for most engines. The jets reduce noise and allow lighter pistons. Lighter pistons lead to even more reduced NVH, more power and fuel efficiency and reduced emmissions.
5. Roller finger cam followers are also rare due to their expense. However, they do provide for high efficiency.
6. Polymer coated pistons. Just like Nissan/Infiniti loves to brag about in all of their literature.

I am looking forward to testing one of these engines.

jgranata

changes the distance the valves open...variable valve timing changes the opening and/or closing of the valves at different rpm ranges...electronic
thottle control allows the elimination of the cable between the t/b and go pedal; there is a motor attached to the t/b that controls the opening and closing of the t/b...the go pedal is attached to a sensor and all that "stuff" is integrated into the ecu to better control emmissions and improve fuel economy...cam phasing is the relationship between the exhaust cam and the intake cam relative to their timing. jackg

fjk57702

missouri2

still thinking about buying a cts. has any one took this car on a road trip. if you have, how does it handle and is it a car that you can drive for at least 500 miles a day and still smile when you stop.

bingoman

I've got 11,000 miles on my CTS. Brand new, I took it from Los Angeles to Phoenix, Houston, Chicago, Salt Lake City and home, including a stretch from Kansas City to Saint Louis on I70. We were sight-seeing so we didn't push for 500 miles on any day but we did over 400 on a couple of days. And yes we were smiling all the way. The car handles very well on Interstates and back roads.

The biggest problem is finding your own personal seating position. Once you find it you can drive all day. Wind and rain are no problem. The car hardly moves in high side winds, and I've had some pretty high winds crossing the desert to Las Vegas.

Good luck on your CTS.

Bingoman

dindak

Anyone driven the CTS in a lot of snow yet?

mannytranny

Please read posts #1597 and #1599.

richw5

I second the comments of bingoman. We regularly (once a week) drive my stepson to Bloomington, Illinois. It's about a 250 mile round trip from our house. The CTS is a superior road car! It feels solid at 80 to 85 mph and will do much more if pressed.

This past summer, we made two single day round trips to southern Illinois (600 miles with local driving). Again, the CTS was up to the job. It's our car of choice for road driving.

However, I had the same problem bingoman mentioned. My right leg got really sore on a few long drives, until I found the seat adjustment that supported my leg properly. I prefer not to use cruise control, so the gas pedal leg gets a workout. I have the same problem on any other car, so it's not just the CTS.

If you want a car that will make you smile after a long drive, the CTS is the car for you.

Rich

missouri2

thanks for the info, do you have the sport or lux. package

bingoman

I have the Lux Sport option with Navigation and all options.

wwhite2

I am not reading the problem posts that quite often show up in these discussions I think its a good sign for the CTS

mcgreenx

When I last looked on the Edmunds site, I couldn't find any CTS crash test information, but FYI, I noted this today:

Passenger: Good
Driver: Good
Side Impact Front: Good
Side Impact Rear: Excellent
Crash Offset: Not Tested
Bumper Bash: Not Tested
Rollover Rating: Good

regfootball

some JERK trailing me in his CTS tonight, RIDING my butt.....those tiny blue headlights in the rear view mirrow are a PAIN.

richw5

I believe that bingoman and I have the exact same CTS. The only difference is that we are slightly behind at 7000 miles.

cadillac1

NHTSA has these numbers.

2003 Cadillac CTS 4-DR. w/SAB
Heavy Pasenger Car

Frontal Star Rating

Driver 4 Stars
Passenger 4 Stars

Side Star Rating

Front Seat 4 Stars
Rear Seat 5 Stars

Rollover Resistance Rating
4 Stars

thebug

Hi there, I'm new to this townhall. Just purchased a new CTS Lux model, and it's great. First GM product in the last 24 years. This car is hot. I have only found a few small nit picky things that I dislike about my CTS, but I find similar things in all the cars that I buy. It's comforting to know that others have noticed the same little things as I read through the messages. This car really turns heads.

mannytranny

Welcome! Congrats on your CTS!

What options did you get? What color is it? Which transmission?

Why did you choose a CTS? I and the others ,I'm sure, would like your impressions and observations and opinions.

thebug

The looks, the looks, the looks. The first time I saw the CTS, I didn't like it at all. That was at the beginning of the year when they first went on display. I pass two Cadillac dealers several times a day, everyday. And the more I looked at the CTS the better it looked. By years end I just had to have one. I've had my CTS for about 1 month now (got for my birthday), and it is hot. Got the lux package with the 16" bright wheels, the bose system (of course), and by the time I ordered it the black interior was available. So of course it's black on black, auto tranny. I also got the rear spoiler (not installed yet) due in January. Total price $36.6K, walked at 34.6K. Really good deal without much effort. Can't wait to do the Virgin River Gorge (it's a 15 mile stretch of downhill winding interstate on I-15 in Arizona). I my opinion, the ultimate test of handling at high speeds.
I have had the opportunity to play on I-15 on short trips to California, and when traffic allows it will hold and handle at 125 mph with realative ease and power to spear. This is going to be great on the Autobaun. Cadillac has hit the mark!!! Thanks for asking mannytranny

richw5

I wish I were in Arizona right now. Chicago winters are too long, cold and snowy for us old folks (me). The CTS was made for long drives on winding mountain roads and high speed runs in the desert. Keep us informed on how it performs for you.

For the rest of you, here's the url to Bob Lutz's speech to the Cadillac/Lasalle club.

http://www.media.gm.com/news/speeches/081002_lutz_cad.html

He has some interesting things to say about Cadillac's future and the part the CTS plays.

Rich

trichard2

I'm a CTS owner in Mesa, AZ. Help me, where is Virgin River Gorge (I-15)?

Thanx

bigdaddycoats

From what I have seen the cruise control is on the steering wheel and the resume feature is there as well.

oldsman01

The MT review was short and really provided little detail of the new engine and how it performed other than the obvious that it was quicker than the 3.2. 255HP(take or give a few) is a very respectable number and as we all know, GM engines have a habit of becoming more powerful over the years.

trichard2

I found it, NW corner of the State.

Thanks anyway

cdnpinhead

Seriously.

From AZ it's necessary to either drive to Las Vegas or Utah to get to the Virgin River Gorge. I used to run it regularly in a truck, so I know what's being discussed. BTW, there was a huge dispute over which state(s) should pay for this stretch, back in the '70's, given that it's impossible to access directly from Arizona.

With the car I've got now I tend to favor two-lane roads in Nevada for my high-speed runs, but to each their own.

jemiller

I wouldn't go near Nevada without a Valentine 1, the NHP seems addicted to radar.

thebug

The VRG is a divided four lane interstate highway. The downhill run is from the Utah end or I-15 South. North bound is up hill, and this too would provide an excellent test run. The traffic flow is good, even with the trucks. The CTS will do very well in this run. Give it a shot. I think you'll like it. I take on my way back from Ohio a couple of times a year. In the summer months that is.

the bug

thebug

I see you have found it. It's in the upper most northwest corner of Arizona, startinf at the Utah end or southbound I-15. It's a long way from you but if you are ever in LV you should take a run towards St. George, Utah about 90 miles from LV.

the bug

thebug

Rich, move to Las Vegas. It's summer 9 or 10 months out of the year. Though very hot for about three months, it worth missing the winter. Your CTS will age gracefully here. I moved here from Cleveland, Oh. Don't miss the snow at all. Lots of nice roads for Sunday runs in this area of the country year round. Cruising is somewhat worry free out in the western states.

the bug

richw5

It's Friday morning (the 13th) and my wife just left for work with the CTS. We've had an engine noise, like a clicking, when it's below 20 degrees (F) in the morning. It usually lasts about 30 seconds and then goes away. Don't know if I need to be worried, but I'll keep listening.

Our CTS doesn't seem to burn any oil. I check the dipstick regularly and it's just starting to get dark, but no loss on measurement. The oil life display shows about 11% oil life left, so next week she'll go in for an oil change (7200 miles).
I'll mention the cold starting noise to the service consultant.

A black CTS with Indiana plates passed me on Route 64 in Carol Stream, IL the other day. Wondered if it could be someone from the board, probably not. I see at least one CTS a day and Black seems to be the most common color, with Sterling or Diamond White in second place.

thebug - We looked at homes in Lake Havasu, about two years ago, but then the grandson was born. He changed our plans. I'd rather suffer in the snow and cold than miss seeing my little buddy grow up.
Still we fly to Vegas at least once a year.

There's a rumor, out on the net, that Cadillac has moved production of the CTS-V out about a month (September or October of next year). They want to make sure that the car meets all the performance and quality expectations of the buyers. I hope so, just give us some new pictures to drool on.

Rich