Cadillac CTS/CTS-V

fjk57702

I owned one of those diesels and was not unhappy with it. All of GM's divisions had their own 350 V8 (except Cadillac) and all had variations in bore/stroke. One could say that all OHV engines are the same!

Deville has never been the top of the line. I think that a Fleetwood 60 Special should be made top of the line (and could be a high end Deville body). The 60 Special could also be a Sigma chassis car too. Of course the Fleetwood 60 Special does not fit into the three letter name mumbo jumbo that is Cadillacs present scheme.

eaton53

A new Fleetwood/FTS model if they want to go upscale.

DeVille is the best selling luxury car in the US... why mess with success?

sevenfeet0

Indeed, the Deville never has been the top of the line automobile, ever since its start as a trim level variation of the Series 62. But Cadillac needs to take the Deville upmarket in order to better compete.

I agree that if customers want a large but moderately priced luxury car from GM, that's what Buick is for. By the same token, GM needs to increase the quaility of Buick's products so people can make that decision and not shop elsewhere outside of GM.

Cadillac has discussed about a super-high-end luxury sedan in the $100K range, which could be considered Fleetwood territory. Whether they make that move is anyone's guess. In the meantime, upgrading the Deville is a good idea.

fjk57702

The Seville was a Fleetwood model to begin with, so it should be the upscale model relative to the Deville. There is very little difference between the DTS and the Seville. Both are a step up from the CTS however. The Buick Park Ave Ultra is probably on a par with the base Deville.

I am not quite sure where Cadillac is going with their model lineup. The Seville (STS) is going down market with a V6 I think, in the RWD version. This would be a good move marketing wise, as a 40-50,000 price level will sell better and be more competive with BMW's 5-series. The CTS would remain in the 3-series price range and a more upscale RWD model in the 50-60,000 price range would be good.

richw5

Before I forget, Congrats to "tablanke" on your new CTS. I know you'll enjoy it.

"typeaman" - I agree. The sport shift mode on the tranny gets lower mileage. My wife doesn't use it for "go to work" everyday driving. I only use it when the road calls for "aggressive" driving.

To everyone else, keep it up, maybe someone from Cadillac is lurking. They need to hear what we think about their cars and how we would improve them. After all, we are the loyal Cadillac owners they need to buy the next generation of their cars.

As for my thoughts, I know that Bob Lutz is bringing fresh views to Cadillac. However, I think he's wrong to move the Seville (STS) down and the Deville up in the Cadillac lineup.

CTS is clearly the entry level Cadillac. It should be refined and fine tuned, as many of us have said in the past. It's a fun car to drive.

Deville (DTS) should be refined and act as the sales leader (as it is now). Improve the quality to exceed it's Japanese and German competitors and make it into a smooth road car.

Seville (STS) should be the technology leader for Cadillac. It should be fun to drive like the CTS, but something more. All the bells and whistles should be standard and it should handle better than any of it's competitors. STS styling should be "Outstanding", something everyone stops to look at.

Fleetwood. This should be the limo of Cadillacs, just like it was before. Now I wouldn't complain if it had a special model, the Fleetwood Touring Sedan (FTS). While the Fleetwood should be aimed at the Limo, Corporate Executive market, the FTS should be aimed at the Maybach or Rolls Royce market.

Since this is the CTS board, I won't go any further on cars or Cadillac trucks, but let's face it, Cadillac's got boring. They didn't keep up with the competition in quality, styling and excitement. It's time to change that. We, as CTS owners, are positioned at the beginning of the resurection of Cadillac. Ain't it fun?

Rich

macguy

I was looking at Edmund's review of the Saab 9-3 when i noticed that it uses the CTS steering wheel, though with different button arrangement and I also notice the AC vents being of the same design too. I know Saab is a GM devision, but no car should share Cadillac parts. This simply puts down the image of Cadillac as a unique GM car. Thanks GOD Saab have been pulled out of Saudi since a year (it was selling quite poorly) cause i would have hated to here someone telling me "ah... just like the Saab run of the mill car".

sevenfeet0

The CTS steering wheel appears to be the new corporate Cadillac wheel. It's the same wheel as the XLR and the SRX. I am also a little surprised to see it used on the Saab 9-3, but GM regularly exchanges steering wheels between divisions. The Tahoe, Yukon, Suburban and Escalade all share the same steering wheel (and many other dash components).

The air vents don't look exactly like the same CTS parts, but they do use the same central knob adjustment control.

sevenfeet0

I don't think that Bob Lutz wants to diminish the positioning for the Seville. But he does want to put the Deville upmarket over it, and I think that is a good thing. Speciality cars excluded, Cadillac is the only company that doesn't have its largest vehicle as it's most expensive, upmarket "flag-bearer". BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Infiniti, Lexus, Audi, Jaguar..virtually every other company does it differently.

That being said, the Seville needs to have all the attention and prestige that it deserves. The fact that it will get a V6 is not a bad thing at all. It expands the price range of the Seville to overlap the CTS. It's not uncommon to have products overlap price range based on features. Cadillac has had V6's before, but the Seville needs one to match the feature set of the competiton. The BMW 530i and the Mercedes E320 are both six cylinder vehicles. But the Seville will keep its Northstar V8 as the next level, and who knows? Maybe we'll get a superchanged V-series STS. Or a super-lux V12 STS.

mcgreenx

I wrote earlier that AM reception on my Bose radio began to sound as if it were "off-tuned," then, over about 3-4 weeks, the AM completely stopped working, although FM and CD/Cassette worked fine. The problem was diagnosed as a bad antenna coupling, which was ordered but the replacement proved not to be the solution. The radio was pulled and sent in for repair because it is apparently too new for there to be rebuilt replacements available. When I finally got the car back in working order, I found a brand new radio had been installed.

Now for the good news: MY NEW BOSE RADIO HAS A DIGITAL CLOCK. It toggles between the station frequency and the time if a "switch" is selected for one of the four programmable buttons on either side of the display, or the frequency appears temporarily if the volume control is touched. BTW, it has an a.m. and a p.m. time display. I don't know when this radio will appear (or has appeared) on new CTSs, but I suspect a future interior redesign will eliminate the analog clock and have only the digital clock in the radio.

One small problem remains: The setting of my analog clock was off by about 2-3 minutes. If I wanted the analog clock to be set to the exact time, I had to select the setting two minutes fast; the digital setting had to be XX:02 for the minute hand to be on the hour. Previously that was only a minor inconvenience. Now, if the digital display is correct, the analog clock is about two minutes slow, and vice versa. Dealer claims they checked numerous new cars in stock and found the same thing on all of them, plus or minus 2-3 minutes, and that "Cadillac" says the problem can't be adjusted. Surprising, if true, and annoying, all the more because one would expect better attention to detail in a first rate automobile.

But I gotta say, after spending three days in a Buick Century loaner, it was a real pleasure to get back in my CTS.

sevenfeet0

I don't think the Seville was ever a Fleetwood model. It did carry the Fleetwood style wreath and crest when it first appeared in '76, but I don't think it was ever referred to as the "Fleetwood Seville" in Cadillac's marketing.

sevenfeet0

My CTS has a digital clock in the radio as well. I thought all Bose CTS radios did. Mine does not have the problem of syncing with the analog clock on the dash. But I would admit it would be annoying if it did. All the reason to eliminate the analog dash clock and just go with one clock, either on the radio face or a seperate analog clock in the center concole stack. There is no need for two clocks in this car. Whoever spent time with the programming to make the clocks sync up should have been thinking about performance gauges. But I'm beating a very deceased equine...

vcjumper

I think even on the 04 Pontiac GP the steering wheel looks very similar.

mcgreenx

My CTS was delivered in September, haven't looked to see when it was built. It didn't have a digital clock in the radio and I had a suspicion that the replacement I got with a DC must be a current model and there must have been a running change. I'm happy to have it because I prefer the central location, passengers (i.e., my wife) can see it, and I would bet a free lunch the analog clock will be gone sooner than later. However, the process was a pain in the....neck.

sevenfeet0

Which model radio did you get? My CTS was delivered in early October. I have the 6-in-dash CD changer version, no Nav system.

mcgreenx

I have the same, Bose 6 CD player, no nav. Makes sense that they would have added the clock, given the fact of the analog clock location criticism, the likelihood that a change will be made deleting the analog clock, and that there is probably little or no cost to adding a digital clock to the radio.

richw5

Found one of the design proposals for the "new" STS. Does it look familiar?

The test will be how close the proposal comes to the final product. If I remember correctly, Bob Lutz didn't like the height of the greenhouse. Still it looks like a "big" CTS.

http://thehollywoodextra.com/cadillac/cadillac.html

Rich

oldsman01

I've been seriously looking at the Saab 9-3 and I really don't see any similarities anywhere between the two. Even if the two cars do share a couple of things, I don't think it is a bad thing as Saab is a luxury brand and some people(those with the import bias) probably think more of Saab than Cadillac. If the CTS was sharing parts with Chevy Cavaliers, then I'd worry.

b4z

Usually they split up production into 2 cycles.
Often times cars made after the November/December time frame have the running changes for the model year.
This is what happened with my Impala. Cars built after November had new stereo amplifiers. Mine was built in January and has the new amplifier.

pat

What do you folks think? The consensus around the Town Hall seems to be that the pictures there are photoshopped fakes.

I really don't know, but it is very interesting to me how many times links to that site show up here, and how nearly unfailingly, the site is swiftly debunked.

eaton53

That same front end tacked on to a current Seville body on another site. This time it got tacked onto a CTS.

I don't expect the new STS to look like either one.

dindak

I think it's a photoshop job, but I also think that the new STS will look somewhat like that. It's a nice looking picture IMO.

I agree with oldsman, a couple of Cadillac parts in a Saab is not a big deal. I don't think there are many people outside this we site that will ever notice or care.

macguy

My CTS which I took delivery of a month ago have a clock in the radio display. I thought all CTS had that till I read the mcgreenx post. I have always wondered why have 2 clocks in the car. The one in the dash serves no purpose at all. And for the record, mine too is 2 min slower than the digital clock. And there is no way i can sync them.

typeaman

Now MY analog clock is out of sync with the digital (about 2 minutes)!? If I can't fix this, it will drive me crazy.

sevenfeet0

It's a fake. It's a better fake than the earlier Popular Mechanics fake which was laughable, but its still a fake. This picture took a CTS and stretched it, slapped on different wheels, but not much else. I can't believe that Cadillac would take such an important vehicle and simple make its lines exactly match the CTS. Lutz isn't stupid.

mcgreenx

When I was waiting at the dealer for my second remote to be reprogrammed (they claim it had nothing to do with the new radio install, but it worked before they worked on the car), I had a chance to look at the current CTS brochure. It shows the digital clock and the deletion of the polished wheels with the LuxSport, but no change in the silver color. Wasn't there talk here that the Copper was going to be deleted and the Sterling would be changed to another shade and name?

As to the clocks' lack of sync, I'm trying to ignore it, but if anyone finds a way to sync them (or that GM can correct it), let us know. I find it hard to believe it can't be adjusted, but think they are afraid of a rash of warranty claims if the word got out of the problem and the fact that it can be cured.

richm4

There is a new Platinum color in my brochure, in addition to the original Sterling color. Both colors look nearly the same to me in the brochure, although I have yet to see Platinum on a CTS.

bigdaddycoats

Platinum and a new silver green start production in December and I believe that copper is going to continue.

tablanke

My CTS had a November build date. With the Bose 6 CD changer, there are still two clocks. Fortunately they match.

FYI, the 17' wheels are not polished.

tgp1810

are they really worth getting?

sevenfeet0

I like them...especially high beams. They give a nice, powerful throw area. Definetely recommended if you drive in places without a lot of street lights.

calicadi

Just got back from the show. Good crowd. All the major and some minor players there. Cadillac had a premier spot on the floor. Right as you enter the main floor, with the other GM makes spanning out beyond. Three CTS's on display, one on a stand, two (Copper and White Diamond)for sit-ins. The Copper was stick; WhtDmnd was auto. Sticker prices $37,865 and $41,240 respectively. Good traffic in and around all the Cads, including Ext, 'slades, DTS, DHS, and Sevilles. Unfortunately no XLR or CTSv models.

In fact, through out the show, virtually no concept cars!! Granted I didn't cover every square foot, but the only one I noticed was the Toyota Scion. It's exterior has all the charm of a Coleman ice chest on wheels, with an equally "cold" interior.

I did a little comparison shopping, in case anyone's interested in stickers.
MB E320 $51,655
MB CLK320 50,790
Lex IS300 32,108
BMW 330i 35,3xx + $3-$4K for opts
BMW 325ci 30,2xx + $3-$4K for opts

Also, checked out the SCCA booth. Looks like there may be a Solo2 event next weekend in the Oakland Colusium parking lot. If I can get my schedule together, I may just enter my first event!

hcii

Somebody educate me here....
I am taking delivery of a new CTS either Monday or Tuesday. The CTS will have the Luxury Sport package, along with a couple other options such as sunroof, HID headlamps, etc.

My question is this: In the CTS brochure that I have, there is a quote that says "Upgrades INCLUDED in the Luxury or Luxury Sport packages take you into Bose Music System...with eight speakers...and an in-dash 6 CD changer. However, I was told today that you have to specify the 6 CD changer as an additional option. A different brochure for the CTS does indeed list the 6 CD changer as an option in addition to the LS package. Which is correct? Is the changer included with the package, or not?

Henry

sreynolds1

After three months with my CTS, I'm still finding a few new features - when the temperature drops near freezing, the display shows "Ice Possible".
Last week, we had our first snow fall of the season, and when the car started to fishtail on the snow, the display showed "Traction Engaged" as the back end pulled back in line, and I could feel the throttle easing up to limit acceleration. This weekend, we had ice as well, and when turning on slick ice, the display said "Stability Sys Engaged" as the Stabilitrak controlled the skid - what an amazing system, it really works!
I still have the problem with my analog clock being slow to the digital setting, but my dealer says he has a fix for this, I will find out when I get my first oil change next week and if they fix it, I will post a message to explain what they did.

calicadi

To hcii, here's from cadillac.com on what constitutes the LuxSprt pkg:
CTS LUXURY SPORT PACKAGE INCLUDES THESE FEATURES * 8-WAY PWR PASS SEAT ADJUSTER * ZEBRANO WOOD TRIM * AUDIBLE ALARM SYSTEM * HOMELINK GARAGE DOOR OPENER * TALKNOTE RECORDER * MULTI-DRIVER MEMORY SETTINGS * COMPASS IN ISRV MIRROR * SPORT-TUNED SUSPENSION * HIGH PERFORMANCE BRAKE LINING * STABILITRAK 2.0 * LOAD-LEVELING REAR SUSPENSION * SPEED-SENSITIVE PWR STEERING * 17" BRIGHT MACHINE FINISH WHL (REPLACES 16" WHEELS) * P225/50R17 W-RATED TIRES (REPLACES 16" TIRES)
*end excerpt*
Options outside the package are; Engine block heater, Heated seats, Sunroof, HID lights, transmission choice, paint choice, interior choice, the "infotainment" system, and the mid-year addition of XM radio. Bottomline, the CD player option is not in the package.

To sreynolds1... Yes! How does it feel to drive the finest transmission/traction system on the planet? I had a chance about a year back to drive multiple makes on a skid pad. The pad consisted of a plastic-coated tarp slathered with soapy water. Only the Cadillacs returned reasonable control to the driver. The other makes reacted to the skidding, but did little to return the vehicle to proper attitude. Some reacted so harshly, the wheels locked and hopped, actually worsening the control.

On HID... they've become very popular theft items and the punks usually screw-driver the whole assembly out, leaving you a four-figure body repair job. IMO unless you live and drive on unlit streets A LOT, and have very poor reaction times, skip it. A friend who used to drive Rally's told me he never worried about driving beyond his stock lights at less than 100 MPH.

sreynolds1

After three months with my CTS, I'm still finding a few new features - when the temperature drops near freezing, the display shows "Ice Possible".
Last week, we had our first snow fall of the season, and when the car started to fishtail on the snow, the display showed "Traction Engaged" as the back end pulled back in line, and I could feel the throttle easing up to limit acceleration. This weekend, we had ice as well, and when turning on slick ice, the display said "Stability Sys Engaged" as the Stabilitrak controlled the skid - what an amazing system, it really works!
I still have the problem with my analog clock being slow to the digital setting, but my dealer says he has a fix for this, I will find out when I get my first oil change next week and if they fix it, I will post a message to explain what they did.

schmidth

What changes are in store for the (non-V series) 2004 CTS? When will they be available in dealerships?

fjk57702

should have the new 3.6 liter V6. This engine is supposed to have 260 hp@6500 rpm's and 250 lb-ft@2500 rpm's. Torque should be at least 90% of peak from 1600 rpm's through 5800 rpm's. This means that the torque will exceed the current engine's peak torque over that range. The interior is to get some upgrades. Exactly what is not clear. GM's media online web site (powertrain) has the details on the engine.

regfootball

i read somewhere that said the 3.6 would not be the base engine in the CTS, but would be optional....the new 3.2 'high feature' (GM terminology for 'Honda and Toyota have had this standard on Civics for five years) motor is supposed to be standard.

I think it was Motor Trend?

mcgreenx

Would one of those of you who have the "new" radio with the digital clock describe the operation of the button on the steering wheel that is below the remote volume control? On my "old" radio, pressing that button activated the built-in cell phone. Does your button do that, or does it simply mute the radio sound, with the cell phone being activated by pressing the white dot button on the mirror? Hope this question makes sense.

fjk57702

The 3.6 liter V6 will be the first "high feature" engine in production. It will be the standard engine on the SRX, which will probably be out as an early 2004 model. Whether this engine will be standard or optional on the CTS is something I don't know. They may bring the 3.2 liter version into production in time for the 2004 CTS model year. This engine is supposed to have about 225 HP I think. They could delay introduction of the 2004 CTS till the end of 2003 or the base engine might not be available till late too. Not sure if the current engine can pass the emissions standards for 2004.

mannytranny

Just returned from a scheduled service visit to fix a map light problem. The light on the driver's side would come on by itself when the car was started and could not be turned off without many, many attempts. The defective switch was the problem. The map assembly was replaced by the dealer.

The next problem was a coolant leak. Apparently this was a slow leak at first but was getting worse. It took a quart of coolant in less than 1000 miles. The problem was defective cross over pipe seals. The seals and O ring were replaced and no more leak.

The loaner that I had was a Chevy Blazer. The ride was nice but I had to keep from putting the clutch in. It was strange to drive an auto car.This was the first auto that I drove in many , many years. But there are only autos available for loaners,I think this could be reverse discrimination (ha, ha) Did miss getting a Deville by an hour.

bigdaddycoats

of 4173.

regfootball

didn't the catera also have coolant leaks?

interesting if it was a related problem, considering the engine is 'somewhat the same'.

merc1

Could you please tell me what "high-feature" means? Isn't that just another GM marketing term?

M

calicadi

FYI...caught Motorweek on PBS last night. Made mention of the large presence of GM performance div and the new CTSv due in '04 at the SEMA show. See, http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/ that

features a CTS on the home page. Can't tell, but photo looks like an '03 CTS blackie and not the "v".

fjk57702

In general the engine will be a "premium" design rather than a cheap design.
All-aluminum construction
Dual overhead camshaft (DOHC)
4-valve-per-cylinder valvetrain
Roller-finger follower valvetrain
Continuously variable cam phasing
Electronic throttle control (ETC)
Durable forged-steel crankshaft
Piston-cooling oil jets
Coolant-loss protection software
GM’s Oil Life System
32 bit microprocessor
Coil-on-plug ignition

bingoman

Regfootball - the only coolant leak in my '97 Catera was from a bad heater valve, and that was at about 60k miles.

regfootball

YES, it IS just marketing lingo for "toyota builds this kind of engine for their lowest priced cars but we'd rather make it sound like something special and try to fool the stupid customers into thinking its not typical of every other mfr. in the modern world."

"premium" design rather than a cheap design?

All-aluminum construction
-sorry, this is typical on many econocars
Dual overhead camshaft (DOHC)
-again, standard on many run of the mill cars for years now
4-valve-per-cylinder valvetrain
-same
Roller-finger follower valvetrain
-not sure
Continuously variable cam phasing
-the asians and euros have had this on some of their cars for awhile.
Electronic throttle control (ETC)
-becoming more common
Durable forged-steel crankshaft
-pretty typical
Piston-cooling oil jets
-what engine DOESN'T have this?
Coolant-loss protection software
-not new for GM
GM’s Oil Life System
-not new for GM
32 bit microprocessor
-not sure
Coil-on-plug ignition
-not sure but sounds typical of many recent engine designs

so its not a GROUNDBREAKING engine by any stretch and I would not call it PREMIUM if a lot of other run of the mill family sedans and econocars have the same tech and features.

merc1

So in other words Cadillac will finally be catching up to what the others already have. Typical GM practices still at work, give it a fancy name and there's nothing really "new", just like Dynaride. Doesn't the averare luxury car have most of these features, and didn't they have them years ago?

regfootball,

Exactly!

M

merc1

Thats somewhat true, but you've got to admit that Cadillac's "high-feature" V6 is just another luxury car engine (which is good), backed by a lot of marketing talk.

M