Cadillac CTS/CTS-V

cadillac1

Cowger refers to the V8 as a "Gen 3." Well what is a Gen 3? Is that what the LS1 is called, or could he be talking about the 3rd generation of Northstars, or the new engine that will go into the C6,or a new engine all together?

calicadi

Bingoman... you near Riverside? K&N is looking for volunteers. Your chance for immortality. They develop it on your ride and we all buy it. Maybe they'll make a signature series you can autograph.

http://knfilters.com/vehicles/needuus.htm

Also on the intake side, Lund has cold air package and is working on supercharger like Breathless Performance. See:

http://www.lundcadillac.com

http://www.breathlessperformance.com

On tires... thanks to eaton53 for research. Here are some other combinations I scrounged up:

from the CTSm in SEMA article

P255/40ZR19 w/Pirelli tot. dia. 27"

from Vogue tyre

P255/45ZR18 x/Toyo tot. dia. 27"

compare to say the Superbuy.com via eaton53

P245/35xx19 tot dia. 25.8" which matches the stock total diameter.

Question for the group, "Is a wider contact patch on a slightly larger diameter any merit over stock?"

fjk57702

http://www.holden.com.au/www-holden/action/modeloverview?modelid=12001

read the highlights: The Gen iii engine is the 5.7 liter V8 which is found in the current generation Covette and a number of Holden vehicles.

ambull

If a "Gen 3" is the current 5.7 liter V8, which seems to be correct, then I concede 7800 rpm must be a mistake. Damn!

calicadi

Bingoman... you near Riverside? K&N is looking for volunteers. Your chance for immortality. They develop it on your ride and we all buy it. Maybe they'll make a signature series you can autograph.

http://knfilters.com/vehicles/needuus.htm

Also on the intake side, Lund has cold air package and is working on supercharger like Breathless Performance. See:

http://www.lundcadillac.com

http://www.breathlessperformance.com

On tires... thanks to eaton53 for research. Here are some other combinations I scrounged up:

from the CTSm in SEMA article

P255/40ZR19 w/Pirelli tot. dia. 27"

from Vogue tyre

P255/45ZR18 x/Toyo tot. dia. 27"

compare to say the Superbuy.com via eaton53

P245/35xx19 tot dia. 25.8" which matches the stock total diameter.

Question for the group, "Is a wider contact patch on a slightly larger diameter any merit over stock?"

calicadi

Goodyear RSA's came stock on my CTS w/LuxSprt Pkg. Had them on my Seville, too. I find them good all around, wet & dry, and I'm moderately aggressive in driving habits. Don't know where you are, but here in California the freeways are usually rain-grooved concrete and the RSA's are a bit noisy on that. Could be any tire would be so. On city-street asphalt they're very quite. They're not quite as sticky as the Dunlop A2's on my El Camino, but way better than the Michellins on my wife's Honda. Then again there are lots of suspension differences between all those vehicles which would be a factor.

eaton53

Having a wider contact patch and stiffer sidewalls is always better for handling - at the expense of ride quality.

I'd be concerned that the oversized wheel/tire might bump or rub... and there's always the speedo issue.

bingoman

I'm in the San Fernando Valley, about 75 miles from Riverside. I'm sure they can find a dealer with some interested customers much closer to them.

lonestar98

i drove a cts w/ the lux/sport package last night. one question i have, the phone butotn on the steering wheel. is that only for use w/ onstar service? also, while cornering i hit the volume knob on the steering wheel and cranked the stereo, does anyone find themselves doing this? when i looked at the trunk, i noticed long screws hanging down from the top of the parcel shelf--looked like the could damage anything tall that goes thru the passthru? has anyone fitted blizzaks for winter driving? there doesn't seem to be any lumbar support, is that a problem on long drives? the glove box also seems really tiny, an annoyance? is there a convenient place to store coins for parking meters? many thanks!

sevenfeet0

Just because the current Gen III has a certain configuration and specs doesn't mean that the CTS' application will be identical. I'm sure we'll get more info in the coming months. I think GM said that they would release real photos of the car sometime early next year. Get those deposits ready...

sevenfeet0

The phone button on the steering wheel can be used either for OnStar or for hands free phone usage. I think it defaults to OnStar if you've subscribed to it.

I've hit the "volume mouse wheel" during some sharp turns. It's happened less as I get used to the car. These days I rarely accidentally bump it.

Haven't seen the screws you are talking about in the trunk. Someone else might comment on it...I'm out of town and can't look at my car.

There is an active snow tire discussion going on right now here. There's no opinion outside of the fact that the stock tires aren't meant for snow. Blizzaks would be high on my list of possibilities given their reputation. But I live in the south so I doubt I'll ever have to make this step.

There isn't any adjustable lumbar support, which is a weird omission for a car like this. However, the seats are very firm and I've driven stretches of up to 4 hours without significant back fatique. My wife has driven at least 3 of those 4 hour Atlanta-Nashville runs and she has not complained either. Of course, your mileage may vary. The Mercury Grand Marquis' I rent for work have lumbar support, but they need it more since you are literally sitting on a sofa in those cars.

The glove box is too small. Everyone thinks so.

I usually store coins (quarters) in the little hole in the center console closest to the driver for the occasional tollboth. But there isn't a quarters/dimes/nickels holder like in other Cadillacs.

jemiller

"almost 400HP" sounds reasonable, like a marketing detune of the 405HP LS6 for the benefit of the Corvette folks, like the various Camaro LS1s were marketing-detuned from the Corvette versions.

The 7800RPM doesn't make sense at all, certainly not for a "Gen 3" (LS1) based engine. Why would you want one that only made 400HP and had to rev to 7800RPM to get it, when the current incarnation makes that much power (or more) at lower RPMs? The LS6 redlines at 6500RPM and getting another 1300RPM out of it would probably double the manufacturing cost of the engine, not to mention probably doubling the in-service failure rate.

Sounds like some PR type made a boo-boo.

missouri2

i have had a c5 corvette and ss camero's. they were fun. i am in my mind 50's. i need a car to keep me young, will the cts help. i want a car that will handle and preform well. a six will not run with a v-8, but there are things that you can do to bring a smile on your face with the six. let me know what do you think of this car. thank you all

cadman88

I believe that the V8 in the V-Series will be a GENeration 4 not three. This is probally the reason for 7800 RPM.

mcgreenx

7ft0: You said "phone button on the steering wheel can be used either for OnStar or for hands free phone usage. I think it defaults to OnStar if you've subscribed to it."

The phone button only operates the phone, I think. You can say "Virtual Advisor" after pressing the phone button and it will dial and get some automated responses, including location (and cost you cell phone minutes), but for live OnStar services, you have to hit the mirror OnStar button, as far as I know. Otherwise, I am in accord with your comments.

On another tack, I took my CTS in today for the AM radio problem, and got a new (3k miles) GrandAm. The size is very comparable to CTS, about 7" longer overall, 3" less in WB, and 100 lbs. less than the CTS, but driving it makes me realize how well the CTS handles. The difference is like night and day. I'm not a sports car aficionado, and don't know how the rear drive or "Nürburgring" tuning, etc., affects the equation, but the more I drive my CTS, the more I appreciate it. I don't think they even started on the radio today, and I can't imagine they will do anything but R&R it, so when I'll see the car again is anybody's guess.

sevenfeet0

I was just trying to remember what the manual said about the button. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. And truth be told, I've never used the button. I've only used the mirror mounted buttons for OnStar, Virtual Advisor, and the hands free phone.

And to your second comment, I appreciate the handling of my CTS every time I climb behind the wheel of yet-another-Grand-Marquis-rental every week when I travel for business :-) The big Mercury does handle better than my last Cadillac Deville, but the CTS is a different experience entirely.

necros

I actually got a call back from someone at Brathless Performance, and they say that, due to the CTSv announcement, they will not longer continue development on their products for the 2003-2004 CTS, despite what their website says. They do still offer a CAI, but I can't run one and stay in my SCCA class. Bummer. Hopefully Lund, and their tuning arm, stays with it.

And I wish I was in California. K&N could have my car in a second.

CTS is in the shop today to fix a minor door rattle, so I have a 2003 Deville as a loaner. If this interior is what everyone talks about when they speak of luxury, I'll take the interior in my CTS, thanks.

sevenfeet0

Cars.com has just published a vehicle profile on the CTS. It's probably one of the more well-balanced reviews I've read. Joe Wiesenfelder takes each part of the car apart for comment, and he likes some things better than others. And unlike other reviewers, it seems like he actually read the owners manual. Good reading.

http://www.cars.com/news/stories/110702_storya_cc.jhtml?aff=national

oldsman01

I usually have to travel to Chicago a couple times a year for business and rather than get a rental, I drive my car and get reimbursed on mileage. It does put miles on my car, but the driving enjoyment is worth it. I just crank up my favorite CD or XM radio on the Bose audio system and set the cruise at as high of a speed as I can(safely of course). And that's with my Intrigue. Can't wait to do the trip in a CTS.

mannytranny

I thought that it was a good read and fair overall.

Thanks... sevenfeet0... for the post.

mcgreenx

If you come north to Chicago through Indiana, on I-65, beware: especially on the stretch from LaFayette, and through Merrillville, it's a speed trap.

As to the phone, I think the little white mirror button is the same as the phone button on steering wheel.

Got mine back today, they ordered an antenna module, says it was "burned out," it's something that is accessed by taking down the headliner at the rear window.

b4z

As of Friday CTS production for the year is 40,560.
This does not include cars produced last year.
By any measure I think the CTS is a sales success.
Caddy was predicting 25-30K sales per year.

dindak

Absolutely it's a success. I hope these sales encourage GM to continue pumping money into the Cadillac / CTS programs. I've said it before, Cadillac is back so long as they continue on the path they have laid. No not everyone will like the A&S look, but you can say that about any car design. Too me CTS says America can compete with the best and I look forward to seeing the numbers on the V models when they come.

regfootball

that's NORTH AMERICA (don't forget Canada!)

fav002

Driving home from work late yesterday afternoon, I spotted a new Mercedes SL55 with manufacturer's plates up ahead. Rolling up closer to get a better look, I then noticed a black Corvette with a manufacturer's plate...as I came up on the Vette, I realized that right in front of it were 5 XLRs cruising down the road in tight formation! They were obviously pre-production models out for evaluations since they didn't have any badging and the body panels didn't have a highly finished look to them. Interesting that GM was using a SL55 as their benchmark ride & handling vehicle. I cruised by, gave the XLR drivers a thumbs up and stayed with them for a while. The overall shape and presence of the XLR was impressive. A definite statement that Cadillac is back! I need to keep my digital camera in the car for future encounters like this...

-FAV002

mcgreenx

I've seen "CTS counts" from several posters here, of cars on dealers lots, so today I counted those on display outside the dealer from whom I bought my CTS. There were 23!!! The salesman told me they were the largest CTS dealer in, I think he said, Illinois, and they get their allotment based on how many cars they sell.

b4z

but we haven't seen spy photos of the new Seville(or whatever it will be called). We saw spy shots of the CTS long before it came out.
Why none of the bigger car?

dindak

regfootball : Yes Canada also! I'm not sure that a Cadillac has ever been made in Canada though. A lot of GM/Ford and Chrysler plants here in southern Ontario.

fav002 : It's hard to have a camera with you always. I remember seeing the Ford F150 Harley Davidson editions and SVTs driving around here long before they came out but no camera either.

mkco

You mentioned that your CTS was less than great in snow. Does your car have Stabilitrack?

necros

I should have mentioned that. No, it doesn't, so that probably makes a great deal of difference. From what I hear Stabilitrak would help greatly. And it's not necessarily so bad in snow; it's really bad with an ice/snow mix, though (again, without Stabilitrak).

I was in my local dealership Friday, to get a very minor rattle in the passenger door fixed, and my service writer took me into the showroom where they had a black CTS hat had been substantially modded with the Vogue accessories. Besides the billet grill and rear spoiler, neither of which I particularly care for, this CTS had ground effects (very nice), and a dual stainless steel exhaust system. Oh my. This car should have come from the factory like this. It looks amazing, and sounds incredible. Nicely muted, but still agressive. I layed underneath the car and checked it out, and it appears to be duals all the way back from the cats. Very, very nice. The service guy said he thought the system would run about $1200. A littl steep, but I'm still considering it, based on the amazing impct it has on the car.

calicadi

Intended for necros but anybody with data chime in please.

Necros - You mentioned you couldn't use a CAI and stay in class, but your consideration of the dual exhaust implies that may be within regs. Can you clarify, please? While we're on the subj... Does SCCA have rules about allowable changes from stock wheel diameter and still stay in class?

Thanks in advance!

sevenfeet0

Could you speak in detail about your "rattle"? My wife and I have noticed a rattle of some kind on the passenger side. It usually only happens during acceleration and is very intermittent. I've only heard it twice, but it reminded me of a piece of foil caught in the wind.

mariner7

I'm sure many of you have read the same thing as me. The CTSv lapped the famous Nurburgring 2-3 seconds faster than the esteemed M3. Fact or fiction! I say fiction. How can a heavier car (standard CTS outweighs 3 series by about 400 lbs) with a higher center of mass (it sure looks like it!) outruns the M3 in its natural habitat?

BTW, rumors have it that the V versions of XLR and SRX will have supercharged DOHC. So all you diehard OHV fans out there, take note: Cadillac admits a SC DOHC is the way to go! Which brings a interesting question: why OHV in CTSv? Naturally, because the DOHC is not ready yet. Too bad, or else the S type R has a worthy Anglo-American competitor.

b4z

It's a fact. CTSV weighs a couple hundred pounds more, but has 60 more hp. And tons more torque.

wwhite2

I would like to see an article about the cts-v out lapping a m3 :-)

mariner7

It was in one of the popular mags, Automobile, I think, the November issue, so it's off the stand by now.

b4z, the v has the lesser Vette engine, so the hp difference is only 20. Other factors (drivers, tires, weather) determine lap times also. We've to wait for the cars to test under identical conditions!

wwhite2

Needs a sequential manual gearbox

oldsman01

Thanks for the tip, I-65 is the route I take to Chi-town.

mariner7, I don't think anyone here is saying that an OHV engine is "better" than an OHC. Obviously a Northstar V8 powered CTS V would be sweet, but the larger(externally) DOHC V8 simply will not fit in the CTS's engine bay. And the LS1 V8 is not your typical OHV engine either. It revs as high and is smoother than some OHC engines. I have no doubt a V series CTS could outrun an M3. While an M3 is more in line with it's price, the M5 is the bogey Cadillac is going after with the CTS V series.

oldsman01

Went to a local auto show over the weekend so I got to check out a decent number of cars. No Bimmers, Audis, Acuras, or Jags present, but Lexus, Cadillac, MB, Lincoln, and Rover all had models present. Cadillac had all five of their current models there. The CTS was the garnet red model with the luxury/sport package and nearly everything but the navigation system. Once again I was impressed with the interior of the car, although I will confess it does need a little more wood trim to warm things up a bit. They had an STS next to it and the STS is still Cadillac's best interior by far. But the CTS still has comfy seats, great ergonomics, and a good driving position. The CTS probably got more attention than the STS and DTS did, but sadly the Escalade and Escalade EXT were virtually people magnets. The "Slade" is a nice truck indeed, but for $56K my Benjamins are going for an STS(or in a bank account until the V series CTS or next gen STS is out). Of all the cars I sat in, the Cadillacs, Saabs, and Volvos had the most comfortable seats.

regfootball

at the auto show here there were gobs of folks around the escalades too. the cts was not visited nearly as much.

shows you just how lame and stupid the average car consumer is......gotta get the big fat SUV so they can go roll it on an icy day.

necros

calicadi: Alterations to the factory air box (except for the filter element; c'mon K&N!) are prohibited under SCCA stock rules, but cat-back exhausts are permitted. Whether changing the configuration of the exhaust (from single to dual) is permitted is something I haven't checked yet, but my suspicions say that it is. Heck, AFAIK, they haven't even oficially classified the CTS, so I'm kinda slipping through the cracks as it is. Wheels are limited to factory size, or any wheel sizes that were offered as a factory option. So, if you have the 16 inch wheels, 17 inchers in the factory size are allowed. Keep in mind that all of these things are for running in the socks class. If you moved to the Street Prepared or Prepared classes, much more is allowed.

sevenfeet0: The rattle was a very low volume one, with a high frequency (not of the sound waves, but of the rate, if ou get my meaning). I guess it sounded kind of like a squeak and a rattle omined, as it got worse over worse pavement. It just sounded like something was not quite tight inside the door, but was a plasticky sound. It would come on at any time, but would stay for a bit (10 minutes or so) when it appeared. Pushing on the inside of the passenger door in variuous places (usually the center section, but sometimes the pull handle or near the bottom, would make it go away sometims, but not always, and it would usually recur. As time went on it got worse. The dealership replaced some bracket in the door that they said was not attached correctly.

oldsman01

They also had 2 Hummer H2s there and one of the "real" Hummer's there(MSRP was a mere $115K) and those were probably the most popular vehicles at the show. People were literally waiting for others to get out of the H2 so that they could get in it.

oldsman01

Anyone read the small review in the recent issue of C&D about the 03 LS. The more powerful V8 delivered a 0-60 time of 6.7 seconds and the interior seems to have been warmned up a bit, but the price has skyrocketed. MSRP on a base V8 model is now $43,9xx and their model test out at over $47K. C&D was impressed with the improvements in the car, but they certainly made note of the major price increase which puts the LS V8 in the ballpark of a GS430 and even a lightly optioned 540. Obviously Lincoln wasn't too in tune with the word out of Cadillac that an LS1 V8 powered CTS is down the road.

akirby

Now hold on a second. The car that C&D tested was a Sport Premium - the most expensive and most loaded version, even though they incorrectly called it a V8 Sport (Sports and Sport Premium models get the V8, base and premium models get the 235 hp V6. There is no Base V8 model). Their car included every option available including a $3K THX certified Stereo and DVD Navigation system, HID headlamps, heated rear seats and electronic parking assist.

By comparison a similarly equipped 540iA is $61K and a 530iA is $53K, both of which are smaller than the LS and the 530i is slower, too. The E320 STARTS at $47K. A nicely optioned V8 Sport will sticker around $42K - that's only a $2-3K increase over the 2002. But you get an upgraded interior, instruments, electric parking brake, Variable Cam Timing, Electronic Throttle control, heated AND COOLED seats. Street price will be under $40K for a V8 Sport, $45 for a Premium Sport fully loaded. A GS430 equipped similarly to the premium Sport stickers (and sells) for $51K. All the prices are right here on Edmunds. Skyrocket is a bit of an overstatement. The biggest change is that there is no V6 sport model or V8 base model.

Don't believe everything you read, ESPECIALLY from a car magazine (C&D is my favorite but they still get things wrong). At least they're comparing it to the 5 series instead of the 3 but I don't understand why they compare it to a C class. It's bigger than the E class in most dimensions.

fjk57702

It does appear that the nav system is $3000. Not much else is optional (paint, heated rear seats and parking assist). Nav systems are of dubious value. I looked at a 2002 Lincoln LS lse model that was $43500 and an LS model that was $42000. So, without the nav, the C&D car was not much more and does have VVT.

akirby

The $3K also includes the THX audio system which has gotten rave reviews so far - neither of which were available in 2002. It also included HID headlamps which weren't available in 2002.

fjk57702

I'm not sure which model C&D tested, but as I read the options list, the premium sport sedan with V8 comes with nearly every option except those I listed above. The sport V8 model has more options and a lower base price (about 40700). The nav is about $3000 and does not include anything else as I read it.

johnnylinc

As akirby said, the LS navigation system is packaged with the THX stereo; it lists for $2995. Here's the description from the Edmunds price list for the '03 LS:

Navigation/THX Audio System
Includes touch-screen DVD satellite navigation system with THX certified CDx6 audio system.

If you're relying on Car & Driver for accurate information in this case, you'll be disappointed. What akirby posted above is 100% correct. If you want to know about the '03 LS content and prices, all you have to do is click on "New" at the top of this page and check it out for yourself.

fjk57702

His post (#1397) also indicates that the HID headlights are part of the package, which I think is not true. The HID headlights are standard on the premium sport model and about $600 on the sport model.

Anyway my point was that since the nav system add $3000 onto the price, the C & D car would be about $44,000 without it and that is not a great deal more than the 2002 LS's that I looked at.

Since this is the CTS forum, we should not be beating this to death here. Tomorrow I will probably remove all of my posts regarding this.

akirby

I didn't mean to imply that the HID headlamps were part of the THX/Nav system, just that the 2003 model included them and the 2002 did not.

You can tell that the tested model was a premium sport because of the wood wheel and shifter. The V8 sport comes with leather wheel and shifter and brushed nickel (or aluminum - I forget) trim instead of the real walnut.