The LS sold over 50K units the first 2 years of production. The last year it was down in the low 40's. Recent sales have picked up with incentives being offered to move out the 2002's because a significantly changed 2003 model is due out in December. This should push sales back up to the 50K range which should continue to outsell the CTS. Remember that the LS will appeal to a lot of tradtional Lincoln buyers while the CTS is much more polarizing, so it's natural that the LS would have wider appeal and sell more units overall.
The DEW98 platform isn't old - it debuted 3 years ago. It was the other new platforms that Lincoln wanted that got the axe. The DEW98 will also be the basis for the 2005 Mustang in addition to the current LS, S-type and Tbird. Compared to the Fox platform of the current mustang (which is 30 years old) the DEW98 is just an infant with a lot of growing and improving to do, just like the CTS platform.
I think he meant not only increasing the wheel diameter but also increasing the overall tire diameter at the same time - effectively decreasing the rear axle ratio (numerically speaking). Like going from a 4.10 to a 3.73. If you kept the overall tire diameter the same and it wasn't heavier then it should be just as quick.
If weight is the same, why does a larger diameter make a car slower? So, if you decreased the overall diameter, then the car would be faster? Does not make sense to me.
Think of gearing like the 10-speed bicycle you might have had when you were a kid (or still might have). The largest diameter gears were meant for cruising. They didn't make you accelerate fast, but they allowed you to save your power. Lower gears used a smaller diameter...you had to work harder but acceleration happened quicker.
The same principal applies to adding larger tires onto a car. You end up changing the effective rear axle ratio.
The point of the V series is to showcase technology, so to put an ohv in is just counterproductive. I remember about ten, fifteen years ago when all the foreigners were going multivalve, GM was SURE that was a waste of time and money. So the first GM 16V 4C was developed by some poor engineers in secret. Help me, what was the name of that engine?
Well, GM was WRONG, because they've been losing market share ever since. Even Ford admitted that, putting in a DOHC in the Mustang. You can bet if a SHO LS comes out, it will have a proper engine. GM, the sooner you admit it, the better it will be for you.
GM's plan now is to have OHC for performance, OHV for value, I read somewhere on the net. I have only two questions. If they think OHV is value, then why Kia goes OHC? If they think OHC is performance, why bother put a OHV in the CTS?
Much has been written here and elsewhere about the engine noise in the CTS. It seems to have been intentially designed for the sake of aural feedback. Cadillac didn't want to mimic the tomb like silence of their other products or Lexus.
However, general opinion of the engine noise has been mixed. With two new engines coming down the pike, I'm sure this issue is being reviewed.
Last I heard, the cts-v undercuts the m3, by not by much.
The engines in the vette and viper make gobs of power, but they're beasts. No one would argue that! Would Chrysler put the viper engine in their show case luxury car, assuming they have one? No, only Caddy would!
"If weight is the same, why does a larger diameter make a car slower?" Good question.
Let's set aside the first part, and assume you have a 225/55/16 wheel/tire set, and a 245/35/19 wheel/tires set that weigh the same. The 19" wheel tire set will have its weight concentrated farther away from the axle, which'll mean it has more of a flywheel effect, making it harder to accelerate.
But we can't really ignore the first part either. With equivalent construction, larger wheels weigh more than smaller ones, and the lower profile tires you use only don't make up that weight difference, so you wind up with a net weight gain. You could drop big bucks on forged rims, but you could do that with the smaller rims too.
The problem is that the vast majority of those 19"-20" setups are NOT the same weight as the OEM wheels, or anywhere near it, the wheel/tire assemblies are much heavier.
Light weight means a forging, and forgings are expensive.
What you're referring to is the Quad 4, which wasn't GM's first DOHC four-valve-per-cylinder engine, not even in the US - that would have been the '75-76 Cosworth Vega - water pump aside, an excellent engine design, shot down by '70s smog control technology (note I'm not talking about the base iron-head Vega engine.) The Quad 4 was a disaster because GM cheaped out on it, a four that big needs balance shafts to be acceptably smooth and GM couldn't stomach the cost. It also encountered some durability problems.
The CTS' V6 is a four-valve design, but of course it's not a US engine. It's smooth enough, as are most 60-degree V6s (it's not quite a 60-degree bank angle, but close enough) but for some reason it's bloody difficult to make a 60-degree V6 have a decent exhaust note, they all end up sounding blatty.
The "old tech" LS1 V8 is more refined and alot more powerful than many DOHC engines. Who cares if the snobby BMW and MB faithful won't buy the car. It could have a 500 hp Northstar V8 with every modern bell and whistle and they still wouldn't consider the car because it is a Cadillac. Or because it is American. Good thing for Cadillac that there is a new generation of car drivers who are starting to hit their prime in terms of what they can afford to buy and they are not so narrow minded when it comes to brands. A 350+ hp V8 in a car the size of the CTS sounds good to me, espeically if the price is right. DOHC, OHV, I could care less just as long as it has a nice mill that makes some power. If it were going to be priced at $70K, that might be a different story.
The purpose of Cadillac's V Series cars is to create a line of performance automobiles, not specifically to create technology platforms. Now if technology is available to get that performance, that's OK.
The Corvette LS-1 engine is a modern and reliable performance engine. It fits the CTS engine bay, because an OHV engine is smaller than a similar OHC engine. An OHV engine (that produces the required Horsepower) is also cheaper and easier to produce than an equivalent OHC engine. Each engine meets the needs of it's respective vehicle in a different way. It's called diversity.
While the Viper engine may be a beast (one that we would all like to drive), the LS-1 is a smooth, powerful, modern "street engine". Most comparable exotic (OHC) engines are not. Corvette's and Vipers "blow away" cars two to three times their price and they are American. In addition, they don't require their owners to have a "private mechanic" to keep them in tune.
Why would anyone buy a KIA? Just for the OHC engine? Gimme a break. LOL.
Cady'll come out with a 70K+ coupe & 50k+ suv, if they don't go after the snobs who buy sl & x5, then who are they going after? Most of those snobs are not going drag racing, they won't even look at the vette engine.
In that premium market, technology sells, that's why porsche, bmw, mb (if it doesn't have the chrysler part dragging) have the best profit margins in the business. Putting in the vette is skimming on tech.
Americans buy Detroit cars if they're competitive, witness the 1G Taurus. But we're not foolish enough to buy inferior cars because the Detroit executives skim on tech and quality to serve their short tem bottom lines.
You tell me why the 1G Taurus was a best seller, but not the 2 or 3G? Is it because all of a sudden we became anti-Detroit? No, it's because Ford didn't know how to handle its franchise player. The 2G Taurus had a OHV engine standard, its competitors camcord had mv ohc. You've to pay if you skim on tech!
Actually, Yamaha made 90% of the V6 including the bottom-end.... they were using Fords block 'til they told Ford that the generic Ford lump they were using couldn't handle the horsepower yamaha was making.
AND that engine is perfect. Yamaha over-toleranced that thing to death and it is the FIRST application I've ever heard of the utilize "stages" of intake for both lower and upper ends of the rpm range... Yamaha would do very well making an automobile powerplant application today I think...FWIW
"Americans buy Detroit cars if they're competitive, witness the 1G Taurus. But we're not foolish enough to buy inferior cars because the Detroit executives skim on tech and quality to serve their short tem bottom lines."
The XLR has the Corvette's chassis, but a Northstar engine. Who will buy them? Well, the Neiman Marcus XLR sold out its 99 units in 14 minutes at $85K a pop... a record.
The are enough Corvette owners wanting a Vette powered sedan to keep the CTSv selling far into the future. They won't even need any German conquest sales, although I'm sure they will get some.
Last time I checked the Taurus still sells pretty well. Truthfully, if you look at the some of the "best selling" cars, none of them have stellar engines. A 150 hp Camry four banger really gets my blood boiling. All OHC and everyting. And to answer your question, whether deserved or not, there is some anti-American sentiments when it comes to cars.
dindak, actually the Yamaha V6 the first generation SHO used was a pretty nice engine. It was the 3.8 liter OHV V6 Ford used in the early and mid 90s that had all the problems. The 92-95 SHOs were a bright spot in the Ford line.
except one flaw that is emerging on the v8 models is cam sprockets separating from the camshafts which is causing the expensive rebuilds (interference engine). The separation may be a result of improper manufacturing tolerances on the diameter of the shaft itself.
In the engine teardowns following this failure in the top end that have been documented, many owners and mechanics have commented on how unbelievably solid the blocks and combustion chambers appear to be. Little shows of any wear, no slop internally. Clean inside....looks like brand new.
I wouldn't call it a nightmare as Dindak suggests but I doubt he knows fully what he is talking about here. We do know Ford is trying to ignore the issue and hope it goes away. Ford does do that. No one here has ever said Ford has stellar customer service.
But that's typical...GM plays that game too.
As I own one of these cars (99 SHO) I have tried to learn more about it and I can't find anything that suggests it maybe happens to 1-2 percent of those cars. My brother in law has 120,000 on his '97 v8 Yamaha SHO with no issues. Thing still runs as new. Currently I am planning on running mine for a little while longer and playing the odds. With the cost of a comparable car pushing 30g$ now I'll sit on mine and hope its paid off before anything might happen IF it does.
So to suggest its a nightmare is overblown. Show me a Quad 4 that hasn't blown up 4 times before 50k. GM has had its share of misengineering and unengineering on its powerplants.
I also owned an 89 SHO and that motor was bulletproof. At 110k it ran like it was new and took no oil. Blow the doors off almost anything. On the road it was damn near silent. No issues with the engine.
The 99 v8 is much the same. Like velvet on wheels, excepting the crap ford tranny.
The v8 is a direct derivative of the v6 2.5 litre Duratec. Its a 60 degree v8 (2 extra cylinders) to make 3.4 litres displacement.
The 96 and up Taurus with the Duratec v6, the motors have impeccable reliability. I have hear or seen not one instance in person, from a dealer, or on the internet of someone with a problem motor. The Duratec is a rock sold motor and runs great.
Again on the Vibe, its a Yamaha tuned Toyota motor (also used in the Celica). And you damn right GM had a choice to put it in there. So indeed they did choose to have it in there. If they didn't want it they could have said no.
If we are talking about expected reliability here....go look at the Catera boards and see all the 'issues' with this Opel v6 (as in CTS). I had actually looked at the Catera before I got the SHO and its a damn nice car that drives beautifully but the 'issues' people were having scared me away.
That's why this new 3.6l motor for the CTS can't come a moment too soon. No more 54 degree Opel v6, no way. The single biggest undesirable in the CTS at this time is the 54 deg. Opel motor.
I thought it was the V6 SHOs also, but maybe it was just the V8s. It still is a nightmare for Ford as SHO owners with the problem (which apparently typically occurs after 60K) are typically some of Fords more loyal and most enthusiastic customers. The cost of fixing these cars is typically in the thousands from what I have read and Ford is ignoring these, some of their best customers. I realize there aren't a lot of these cars around but ignoring these loyal Ford owners will hurt them a bit IMO.
Nothing serious, just my baby's first oil change so far (at 6K miles). I did get a loaner car from the dealership, though: A some year Buick LeSabre Custom. I guess I've been driving Cadillacs too long. I now understand why some people think American cars are crap. I could get a V6 Accord for the same price as this unlovely Buick? Yow.
Also, to contribute to the Yamaha topic, my 1988 Toyota Celica AllTrac Turbo has a Yamaha head on it, and it's great.
It has been my experience that Gm takes better care of it's customers when it comes to warranty issues. This includes paying for things that are outside of the warranty coverage.
My '87 Camaro was repainted by Gm in '93 when it was 16,000 miles past the warranty. We are talking a bare metal repaint not just a respray.
A few days after I had it painted I happened to run into an ex Ford executive. He was complimenting me on my car and I told him that GM had just repainted it. He said that Gm always did things like that.
GM and the dealers I have delt with have always taken decent care of my cars. If they didn't I'd be driving something else. Much better than the way Honda took care of my Accord that's for sure.
Keep in mind that the 3.2L opel motor in the CTS has many engineering differences from the older 3.0L V6 outside of displacement. So far, the view from the user community here has been pretty good, save one owner that did have to get his engine replaced after a bad cylinder ruined the engine.
However, I will agree that the 3.6L V6 in next year's CTS is very important for the future of this product.
yes, your post 1281 is correct. Ford is being real asses about it, trying hard to not acknowledge it. And yes, the owners they are torquing off are their most loyal backers.
Corporate suicide........but Ford lately is known for many many stupid moves.
I'm not bashing Ford at all, I am a fan of some Ford products.
The SHO combined with other gaffs (Firestone fiasco, recalls, ect..) would certainly worry me if I was an owner. I wish they would learn and smarten up.
I drove through the Cadillac dealer's lot the other night and noticed that they only had three CTS's in stock. They usually have at least 18 or so. I guess the great financing rates really moved the CTS in October - 4848 of them!
Thanks on your kind feelings. I am having tons of fun with the CTS. I had never imagined it to be so smooth despite the sport package (it is harsh though on sudden road roughness). I am still breaking in but I have tried half way pedal accelerations and it was so exciting.
As for the Holden cars, we have 2 variants of these. The Lumina (CTS sized mid size) and the Caprice (large, long and full size). All are rear drive with a base v6 3.8L or the Chevy 350. The Impala plate name is not carried here as historically it meant a low featured Caprice variant. So we do not have Impalas. The SS variants have the LS1 325hp 350. The Lumina SS is very popular with younger drivers.
Note, for 2002 Chevy Holden Lominas did out sell the Toyota Camry and Toyota in general for the first time ever. GM lost considerable market share here with the front wheel drive strategy, but their sales are sky rocketing with the introduction of the rear drive Holdens re branded as Chevys
I think you got it wrong with the name thing. The you can write your name or any message you wish in the DIC yourself, it is too cool. But as i said, I was wondering if this feature have been available before in any Cadillac.
Not to digress this forum to an SHO debate, but Ford's biggest mistake with the SHO was when they tried to make it an Aurora style luxo crusier in 96. Despite a V8, the car did not perform as well as the previous generation model. MT compared it to an also then new Pontiac Grand Prix GTP and the GP was several grand cheaper and blew the doors off the SHO. If Ford had stuck with the initial concept of the SHO(high output V6 and an available manual) the Taurus might still be the number one best seller rather than number three. Not that first gen SHOs were prefect as they shared most of the plebian Tauri's parts, but the performance and features for the price made it a bargain in the sedan class. Not to mention that it was the ultimate sleeper looks wise. Speaking of SHOs, anybody see the Clint Eastwood flick "Blood Work"? There is a part in there were a guy in a 92-95 dark green SHO tries to run him down and while the SHO gets shot up, several times you got to hear the Yamaha V6 singing. I was probably the only one in the theatre that was paying more attention to the car's engine sound that the sound track of the movie at that time:) Reminds me of "Get Carter" with Stallone a couple years back. Hated seeing his black STS get shot up, but loved the chase scenes when you could hear that Northstar at full throttle.
As of today, local dealer has a black, white, and sterling CTS on their lot. Sad thing is, they have more Escalade EXTs than that on their lot. Not that the EXT is a bad truck/SUV, but the CTS(or even a Deville) is so much more fun to drive.
Have you seen the movie currently in theaters "Knock Around Guys". The mobster's son has a previous generation '93-'94 (base on the wheels on the car) black STS.
There was no chasing or anything like fast driving in the scenes. The car was feature during various shots.
At the end of the movie, the guy told his father that he is changing his lifestyle as an honest working citizen and left the car with his father. If I was him, I would kept that car.
Anyway, Crest Cadillac here in Nashville has close to little more than 10 CTSs on the lots and most of them are manuals. Majority of them are white and there are no 2002 Escalades on the lots. Only a handful of EXTs in Silver Sand with custom rims (some of them). I think there are about 5-7 of them.
You use to be under another username some time back, were you as Etharmon.
For those who don't care about this digression, just skip this.
****
yes they did try to make the SHO more of a cruiser. Kind of a mistake. Having owned an 89 and a 99 I say I enjoy both, but in different ways.
The v8 model wasn't a 'slug' but was not cat quick either. The published 0-60 I saw on it was 7.4 in R&T. I have not seen a 3800 naturally aspirated car do 7.4 (I think 7.9 is the quickest) but yes the GTP at 6.8 will beat it.
The major flaw with the v8 model sho is the ford automatic transmission. It is known that the v8 SHO motor was able to run at 325hp without durability issues. Ford was going to release the motor at much higher hp than 235 however the limitations of the Ford automatic transmission (which I think it shared with the v6 Taurus) forced them to lower the hp to avoid having to rebuild thousands of trannys or avoid developing another one.
The huge flaw with the transmission, no matter the hp, is that it won't downshift, is generally clunky, and never is in the gear you want. That's why the acceleration is not great.
Had they offered a proper manual tranny, then they coulda upped the hp. The Contour SVT with 2.5l v6 had 200 hp. The 3.4v8 is a descendant. If we interpolate the hp from the SVT to the v8 it easily coulda had about 270 hp.
So, the v8 concept was not bad....it was the execution of the concept that was not realized.
**************
back to CTS......can't wait for that 3.6l version to hit......I wanna see the times on that.
Nashville isn't a bad drive from Knoxville, I may have to cruise out there and test drive one of those CTSs with the manual. Every time I've stopped off and looked at CTSs at the dealer here, they are automatics.
regfootball, yeah I'm really wanting to hold off on a CTS until the new engine comes out. As fun to drive as the car is now, more power will make it even better. I also hope the 3.6 has the same type of deep(almost V8 like) rumble in the exhaust like my Intrigue has.
Anyone else having this problem? The outside temp reads high by 3 degrees celsius (that's 5 degrees F in the real world). My local dealer said there was no adjustment he could make, then I pressed for a new sensor, but now he's saying it's a "programing problem" which has been found on a number of cars. He's waiting for a new chip which will fix the problem. Also, I have to set the time on the digital clock 4 minutes fast to get the analog clock to show the right time - I've seen other posts here about that problem. Pretty small complaints on an otherwise great car, but I would like to get them fixed.
I took my 2nd test drive in the CTS today. The dealer did not have a 5 speed. The one I drove today had the sport package. It seemed not to be as soft as the base model. I asked about the 5 speed, if they had many in and the salesman said they only had a couple. I live in Boston and havn't seen many in the area. Maybe with all the traffic here, there may not be a demand for the stick shift.
I'll try back in month or so to drive a manual, if not I may go to another dealer. 0% thru January.
Comments
The DEW98 platform isn't old - it debuted 3 years ago. It was the other new platforms that Lincoln wanted that got the axe. The DEW98 will also be the basis for the 2005 Mustang in addition to the current LS, S-type and Tbird. Compared to the Fox platform of the current mustang (which is 30 years old) the DEW98 is just an infant with a lot of growing and improving to do, just like the CTS platform.
The same principal applies to adding larger tires onto a car. You end up changing the effective rear axle ratio.
Well, GM was WRONG, because they've been losing market share ever since. Even Ford admitted that, putting in a DOHC in the Mustang. You can bet if a SHO LS comes out, it will have a proper engine. GM, the sooner you admit it, the better it will be for you.
GM's plan now is to have OHC for performance, OHV for value, I read somewhere on the net. I have only two questions. If they think OHV is value, then why Kia goes OHC? If they think OHC is performance, why bother put a OHV in the CTS?
LOL.
I don't think that 1/100th of an inch is gonna matter...
However, general opinion of the engine noise has been mixed. With two new engines coming down the pike, I'm sure this issue is being reviewed.
What a terrible idea!! If they don't make it expensive and complicated, they'll never be able to sell it.... LOL
The engines in the vette and viper make gobs of power, but they're beasts. No one would argue that! Would Chrysler put the viper engine in their show case luxury car, assuming they have one? No, only Caddy would!
Also, CTSv is an M5 size car and undercuts it by a lot... and it's a sports sedan, not a luxury car. That's for the STS and FTS, should they build it.
Anyway, this stuff is for the News & Views forum... this Viper, M & AMG stuff doesn't belong in here.
Let's set aside the first part, and assume you have a 225/55/16 wheel/tire set, and a 245/35/19 wheel/tires set that weigh the same. The 19" wheel tire set will have its weight concentrated farther away from the axle, which'll mean it has more of a flywheel effect, making it harder to accelerate.
But we can't really ignore the first part either. With equivalent construction, larger wheels weigh more than smaller ones, and the lower profile tires you use only don't make up that weight difference, so you wind up with a net weight gain. You could drop big bucks on forged rims, but you could do that with the smaller rims too.
Light weight means a forging, and forgings are expensive.
The CTS' V6 is a four-valve design, but of course it's not a US engine. It's smooth enough, as are most 60-degree V6s (it's not quite a 60-degree bank angle, but close enough) but for some reason it's bloody difficult to make a 60-degree V6 have a decent exhaust note, they all end up sounding blatty.
BTW I wouldn't mind if Ford continued to utilize Yamaha for tweaking their motors.
For the record, both SHO's used ford blocks and Yamaha did some tuning and the heads.
Actually you GM lovers note....the engine in the Vibe GT is also a Yamaha motor.
Too bad that noisy Toyota engine is there instead of a nice Ecotec.
The Corvette LS-1 engine is a modern and reliable performance engine. It fits the CTS engine bay, because an OHV engine is smaller than a similar OHC engine. An OHV engine (that produces the required Horsepower) is also cheaper and easier to produce than an equivalent OHC engine. Each engine meets the needs of it's respective vehicle in a different way. It's called diversity.
While the Viper engine may be a beast (one that we would all like to drive), the LS-1 is a smooth, powerful, modern "street engine". Most comparable exotic (OHC) engines are not. Corvette's and Vipers "blow away" cars two to three times their price and they are American. In addition, they don't require their owners to have a "private mechanic" to keep them in tune.
Why would anyone buy a KIA? Just for the OHC engine? Gimme a break. LOL.
Rich
In that premium market, technology sells, that's why porsche, bmw, mb (if it doesn't have the chrysler part dragging) have the best profit margins in the business. Putting in the vette is skimming on tech.
Americans buy Detroit cars if they're competitive, witness the 1G Taurus. But we're not foolish enough to buy inferior cars because the Detroit executives skim on tech and quality to serve their short tem bottom lines.
You tell me why the 1G Taurus was a best seller, but not the 2 or 3G? Is it because all of a sudden we became anti-Detroit? No, it's because Ford didn't know how to handle its franchise player. The 2G Taurus had a OHV engine standard, its competitors camcord had mv ohc. You've to pay if you skim on tech!
the bottom-end.... they were using Fords block
'til they told Ford that the generic Ford lump
they were using couldn't handle the horsepower
yamaha was making.
AND that engine is perfect. Yamaha over-toleranced
that thing to death and it is the FIRST application
I've ever heard of the utilize "stages" of intake
for both lower and upper ends of the rpm range...
Yamaha would do very well making an automobile
powerplant application today I think...FWIW
Oh yes we are.
The Taurus engines have horrible reliability and have been costing thousands to fix. Complete nightmare for Ford.
The XLR has the Corvette's chassis, but a Northstar engine. Who will buy them? Well, the Neiman Marcus XLR sold out its 99 units in 14 minutes at $85K a pop... a record.
The are enough Corvette owners wanting a Vette powered sedan to keep the CTSv selling far into the future. They won't even need any German conquest sales, although I'm sure they will get some.
dindak, actually the Yamaha V6 the first generation SHO used was a pretty nice engine. It was the 3.8 liter OHV V6 Ford used in the early and mid 90s that had all the problems. The 92-95 SHOs were a bright spot in the Ford line.
except one flaw that is emerging on the v8 models is cam sprockets separating from the camshafts which is causing the expensive rebuilds (interference engine). The separation may be a result of improper manufacturing tolerances on the diameter of the shaft itself.
In the engine teardowns following this failure in the top end that have been documented, many owners and mechanics have commented on how unbelievably solid the blocks and combustion chambers appear to be. Little shows of any wear, no slop internally. Clean inside....looks like brand new.
I wouldn't call it a nightmare as Dindak suggests but I doubt he knows fully what he is talking about here. We do know Ford is trying to ignore the issue and hope it goes away. Ford does do that. No one here has ever said Ford has stellar customer service.
But that's typical...GM plays that game too.
As I own one of these cars (99 SHO) I have tried to learn more about it and I can't find anything that suggests it maybe happens to 1-2 percent of those cars. My brother in law has 120,000 on his '97 v8 Yamaha SHO with no issues. Thing still runs as new. Currently I am planning on running mine for a little while longer and playing the odds. With the cost of a comparable car pushing 30g$ now I'll sit on mine and hope its paid off before anything might happen IF it does.
So to suggest its a nightmare is overblown. Show me a Quad 4 that hasn't blown up 4 times before 50k. GM has had its share of misengineering and unengineering on its powerplants.
I also owned an 89 SHO and that motor was bulletproof. At 110k it ran like it was new and took no oil. Blow the doors off almost anything. On the road it was damn near silent. No issues with the engine.
The 99 v8 is much the same. Like velvet on wheels, excepting the crap ford tranny.
The v8 is a direct derivative of the v6 2.5 litre Duratec. Its a 60 degree v8 (2 extra cylinders) to make 3.4 litres displacement.
The 96 and up Taurus with the Duratec v6, the motors have impeccable reliability. I have hear or seen not one instance in person, from a dealer, or on the internet of someone with a problem motor. The Duratec is a rock sold motor and runs great.
Again on the Vibe, its a Yamaha tuned Toyota motor (also used in the Celica). And you damn right GM had a choice to put it in there. So indeed they did choose to have it in there. If they didn't want it they could have said no.
If we are talking about expected reliability here....go look at the Catera boards and see all the 'issues' with this Opel v6 (as in CTS). I had actually looked at the Catera before I got the SHO and its a damn nice car that drives beautifully but the 'issues' people were having scared me away.
That's why this new 3.6l motor for the CTS can't come a moment too soon. No more 54 degree Opel v6, no way. The single biggest undesirable in the CTS at this time is the 54 deg. Opel motor.
Supposedly it is just piston slap that goes away after they get some heat in them but it is annoying nonetheless.
Also, to contribute to the Yamaha topic, my 1988 Toyota Celica AllTrac Turbo has a Yamaha head on it, and it's great.
My '87 Camaro was repainted by Gm in '93 when it was 16,000 miles past the warranty.
We are talking a bare metal repaint not just a respray.
A few days after I had it painted I happened to run into an ex Ford executive. He was complimenting me on my car and I told him that GM had just repainted it. He said that Gm always did things like that.
However, I will agree that the 3.6L V6 in next year's CTS is very important for the future of this product.
Corporate suicide........but Ford lately is known for many many stupid moves.
The SHO combined with other gaffs (Firestone fiasco, recalls, ect..) would certainly worry me if I was an owner. I wish they would learn and smarten up.
;-)
So there are about 10,000 cars on the lots, in
the holding yards or overseas.
As for the Holden cars, we have 2 variants of these. The Lumina (CTS sized mid size) and the Caprice (large, long and full size). All are rear drive with a base v6 3.8L or the Chevy 350. The Impala plate name is not carried here as historically it meant a low featured Caprice variant. So we do not have Impalas. The SS variants have the LS1 325hp 350. The Lumina SS is very popular with younger drivers.
Note, for 2002 Chevy Holden Lominas did out sell the Toyota Camry and Toyota in general for the first time ever. GM lost considerable market share here with the front wheel drive strategy, but their sales are sky rocketing with the introduction of the rear drive Holdens re branded as Chevys
I think you got it wrong with the name thing. The you can write your name or any message you wish in the DIC yourself, it is too cool. But as i said, I was wondering if this feature have been available before in any Cadillac.
There was no chasing or anything like fast driving in the scenes. The car was feature during various shots.
At the end of the movie, the guy told his father that he is changing his lifestyle as an honest working citizen and left the car with his father. If I was him, I would kept that car.
Anyway, Crest Cadillac here in Nashville has close to little more than 10 CTSs on the lots and most of them are manuals. Majority of them are white and there are no 2002 Escalades on the lots. Only a handful of EXTs in Silver Sand with custom rims (some of them). I think there are about 5-7 of them.
You use to be under another username some time back, were you as Etharmon.
J "CaddyLac"
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yes they did try to make the SHO more of a cruiser. Kind of a mistake. Having owned an 89 and a 99 I say I enjoy both, but in different ways.
The v8 model wasn't a 'slug' but was not cat quick either. The published 0-60 I saw on it was 7.4 in R&T. I have not seen a 3800 naturally aspirated car do 7.4 (I think 7.9 is the quickest) but yes the GTP at 6.8 will beat it.
The major flaw with the v8 model sho is the ford automatic transmission. It is known that the v8 SHO motor was able to run at 325hp without durability issues. Ford was going to release the motor at much higher hp than 235 however the limitations of the Ford automatic transmission (which I think it shared with the v6 Taurus) forced them to lower the hp to avoid having to rebuild thousands of trannys or avoid developing another one.
The huge flaw with the transmission, no matter the hp, is that it won't downshift, is generally clunky, and never is in the gear you want. That's why the acceleration is not great.
Had they offered a proper manual tranny, then they coulda upped the hp. The Contour SVT with 2.5l v6 had 200 hp. The 3.4v8 is a descendant. If we interpolate the hp from the SVT to the v8 it easily coulda had about 270 hp.
So, the v8 concept was not bad....it was the execution of the concept that was not realized.
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back to CTS......can't wait for that 3.6l version to hit......I wanna see the times on that.
regfootball, yeah I'm really wanting to hold off on a CTS until the new engine comes out. As fun to drive as the car is now, more power will make it even better. I also hope the 3.6 has the same type of deep(almost V8 like) rumble in the exhaust like my Intrigue has.
Anybody think that is a good MSRP for the Vseries CTS?
Also, I have to set the time on the digital clock 4 minutes fast to get the analog clock to show the right time - I've seen other posts here about that problem.
Pretty small complaints on an otherwise great car, but I would like to get them fixed.
I'll try back in month or so to drive a manual, if not I may go to another dealer. 0% thru January.