By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
The DEW98 platform isn't old - it debuted 3 years ago. It was the other new platforms that Lincoln wanted that got the axe. The DEW98 will also be the basis for the 2005 Mustang in addition to the current LS, S-type and Tbird. Compared to the Fox platform of the current mustang (which is 30 years old) the DEW98 is just an infant with a lot of growing and improving to do, just like the CTS platform.
The same principal applies to adding larger tires onto a car. You end up changing the effective rear axle ratio.
Well, GM was WRONG, because they've been losing market share ever since. Even Ford admitted that, putting in a DOHC in the Mustang. You can bet if a SHO LS comes out, it will have a proper engine. GM, the sooner you admit it, the better it will be for you.
GM's plan now is to have OHC for performance, OHV for value, I read somewhere on the net. I have only two questions. If they think OHV is value, then why Kia goes OHC? If they think OHC is performance, why bother put a OHV in the CTS?
LOL.
I don't think that 1/100th of an inch is gonna matter...
However, general opinion of the engine noise has been mixed. With two new engines coming down the pike, I'm sure this issue is being reviewed.
What a terrible idea!! If they don't make it expensive and complicated, they'll never be able to sell it.... LOL
The engines in the vette and viper make gobs of power, but they're beasts. No one would argue that! Would Chrysler put the viper engine in their show case luxury car, assuming they have one? No, only Caddy would!
Also, CTSv is an M5 size car and undercuts it by a lot... and it's a sports sedan, not a luxury car. That's for the STS and FTS, should they build it.
Anyway, this stuff is for the News & Views forum... this Viper, M & AMG stuff doesn't belong in here.
Let's set aside the first part, and assume you have a 225/55/16 wheel/tire set, and a 245/35/19 wheel/tires set that weigh the same. The 19" wheel tire set will have its weight concentrated farther away from the axle, which'll mean it has more of a flywheel effect, making it harder to accelerate.
But we can't really ignore the first part either. With equivalent construction, larger wheels weigh more than smaller ones, and the lower profile tires you use only don't make up that weight difference, so you wind up with a net weight gain. You could drop big bucks on forged rims, but you could do that with the smaller rims too.
Light weight means a forging, and forgings are expensive.
The CTS' V6 is a four-valve design, but of course it's not a US engine. It's smooth enough, as are most 60-degree V6s (it's not quite a 60-degree bank angle, but close enough) but for some reason it's bloody difficult to make a 60-degree V6 have a decent exhaust note, they all end up sounding blatty.
BTW I wouldn't mind if Ford continued to utilize Yamaha for tweaking their motors.
For the record, both SHO's used ford blocks and Yamaha did some tuning and the heads.
Actually you GM lovers note....the engine in the Vibe GT is also a Yamaha motor.
Too bad that noisy Toyota engine is there instead of a nice Ecotec.
The Corvette LS-1 engine is a modern and reliable performance engine. It fits the CTS engine bay, because an OHV engine is smaller than a similar OHC engine. An OHV engine (that produces the required Horsepower) is also cheaper and easier to produce than an equivalent OHC engine. Each engine meets the needs of it's respective vehicle in a different way. It's called diversity.
While the Viper engine may be a beast (one that we would all like to drive), the LS-1 is a smooth, powerful, modern "street engine". Most comparable exotic (OHC) engines are not. Corvette's and Vipers "blow away" cars two to three times their price and they are American. In addition, they don't require their owners to have a "private mechanic" to keep them in tune.
Why would anyone buy a KIA? Just for the OHC engine? Gimme a break. LOL.
Rich
In that premium market, technology sells, that's why porsche, bmw, mb (if it doesn't have the chrysler part dragging) have the best profit margins in the business. Putting in the vette is skimming on tech.
Americans buy Detroit cars if they're competitive, witness the 1G Taurus. But we're not foolish enough to buy inferior cars because the Detroit executives skim on tech and quality to serve their short tem bottom lines.
You tell me why the 1G Taurus was a best seller, but not the 2 or 3G? Is it because all of a sudden we became anti-Detroit? No, it's because Ford didn't know how to handle its franchise player. The 2G Taurus had a OHV engine standard, its competitors camcord had mv ohc. You've to pay if you skim on tech!
the bottom-end.... they were using Fords block
'til they told Ford that the generic Ford lump
they were using couldn't handle the horsepower
yamaha was making.
AND that engine is perfect. Yamaha over-toleranced
that thing to death and it is the FIRST application
I've ever heard of the utilize "stages" of intake
for both lower and upper ends of the rpm range...
Yamaha would do very well making an automobile
powerplant application today I think...FWIW
Oh yes we are.
The Taurus engines have horrible reliability and have been costing thousands to fix. Complete nightmare for Ford.
The XLR has the Corvette's chassis, but a Northstar engine. Who will buy them? Well, the Neiman Marcus XLR sold out its 99 units in 14 minutes at $85K a pop... a record.
The are enough Corvette owners wanting a Vette powered sedan to keep the CTSv selling far into the future. They won't even need any German conquest sales, although I'm sure they will get some.
dindak, actually the Yamaha V6 the first generation SHO used was a pretty nice engine. It was the 3.8 liter OHV V6 Ford used in the early and mid 90s that had all the problems. The 92-95 SHOs were a bright spot in the Ford line.
except one flaw that is emerging on the v8 models is cam sprockets separating from the camshafts which is causing the expensive rebuilds (interference engine). The separation may be a result of improper manufacturing tolerances on the diameter of the shaft itself.
In the engine teardowns following this failure in the top end that have been documented, many owners and mechanics have commented on how unbelievably solid the blocks and combustion chambers appear to be. Little shows of any wear, no slop internally. Clean inside....looks like brand new.
I wouldn't call it a nightmare as Dindak suggests but I doubt he knows fully what he is talking about here. We do know Ford is trying to ignore the issue and hope it goes away. Ford does do that. No one here has ever said Ford has stellar customer service.
But that's typical...GM plays that game too.
As I own one of these cars (99 SHO) I have tried to learn more about it and I can't find anything that suggests it maybe happens to 1-2 percent of those cars. My brother in law has 120,000 on his '97 v8 Yamaha SHO with no issues. Thing still runs as new. Currently I am planning on running mine for a little while longer and playing the odds. With the cost of a comparable car pushing 30g$ now I'll sit on mine and hope its paid off before anything might happen IF it does.
So to suggest its a nightmare is overblown. Show me a Quad 4 that hasn't blown up 4 times before 50k. GM has had its share of misengineering and unengineering on its powerplants.
I also owned an 89 SHO and that motor was bulletproof. At 110k it ran like it was new and took no oil. Blow the doors off almost anything. On the road it was damn near silent. No issues with the engine.
The 99 v8 is much the same. Like velvet on wheels, excepting the crap ford tranny.
The v8 is a direct derivative of the v6 2.5 litre Duratec. Its a 60 degree v8 (2 extra cylinders) to make 3.4 litres displacement.
The 96 and up Taurus with the Duratec v6, the motors have impeccable reliability. I have hear or seen not one instance in person, from a dealer, or on the internet of someone with a problem motor. The Duratec is a rock sold motor and runs great.
Again on the Vibe, its a Yamaha tuned Toyota motor (also used in the Celica). And you damn right GM had a choice to put it in there. So indeed they did choose to have it in there. If they didn't want it they could have said no.
If we are talking about expected reliability here....go look at the Catera boards and see all the 'issues' with this Opel v6 (as in CTS). I had actually looked at the Catera before I got the SHO and its a damn nice car that drives beautifully but the 'issues' people were having scared me away.
That's why this new 3.6l motor for the CTS can't come a moment too soon. No more 54 degree Opel v6, no way. The single biggest undesirable in the CTS at this time is the 54 deg. Opel motor.
Supposedly it is just piston slap that goes away after they get some heat in them but it is annoying nonetheless.
Also, to contribute to the Yamaha topic, my 1988 Toyota Celica AllTrac Turbo has a Yamaha head on it, and it's great.
My '87 Camaro was repainted by Gm in '93 when it was 16,000 miles past the warranty.
We are talking a bare metal repaint not just a respray.
A few days after I had it painted I happened to run into an ex Ford executive. He was complimenting me on my car and I told him that GM had just repainted it. He said that Gm always did things like that.
However, I will agree that the 3.6L V6 in next year's CTS is very important for the future of this product.
Corporate suicide........but Ford lately is known for many many stupid moves.
The SHO combined with other gaffs (Firestone fiasco, recalls, ect..) would certainly worry me if I was an owner. I wish they would learn and smarten up.
;-)
So there are about 10,000 cars on the lots, in
the holding yards or overseas.
As for the Holden cars, we have 2 variants of these. The Lumina (CTS sized mid size) and the Caprice (large, long and full size). All are rear drive with a base v6 3.8L or the Chevy 350. The Impala plate name is not carried here as historically it meant a low featured Caprice variant. So we do not have Impalas. The SS variants have the LS1 325hp 350. The Lumina SS is very popular with younger drivers.
Note, for 2002 Chevy Holden Lominas did out sell the Toyota Camry and Toyota in general for the first time ever. GM lost considerable market share here with the front wheel drive strategy, but their sales are sky rocketing with the introduction of the rear drive Holdens re branded as Chevys
I think you got it wrong with the name thing. The you can write your name or any message you wish in the DIC yourself, it is too cool. But as i said, I was wondering if this feature have been available before in any Cadillac.
There was no chasing or anything like fast driving in the scenes. The car was feature during various shots.
At the end of the movie, the guy told his father that he is changing his lifestyle as an honest working citizen and left the car with his father. If I was him, I would kept that car.
Anyway, Crest Cadillac here in Nashville has close to little more than 10 CTSs on the lots and most of them are manuals. Majority of them are white and there are no 2002 Escalades on the lots. Only a handful of EXTs in Silver Sand with custom rims (some of them). I think there are about 5-7 of them.
You use to be under another username some time back, were you as Etharmon.
J "CaddyLac"
****
yes they did try to make the SHO more of a cruiser. Kind of a mistake. Having owned an 89 and a 99 I say I enjoy both, but in different ways.
The v8 model wasn't a 'slug' but was not cat quick either. The published 0-60 I saw on it was 7.4 in R&T. I have not seen a 3800 naturally aspirated car do 7.4 (I think 7.9 is the quickest) but yes the GTP at 6.8 will beat it.
The major flaw with the v8 model sho is the ford automatic transmission. It is known that the v8 SHO motor was able to run at 325hp without durability issues. Ford was going to release the motor at much higher hp than 235 however the limitations of the Ford automatic transmission (which I think it shared with the v6 Taurus) forced them to lower the hp to avoid having to rebuild thousands of trannys or avoid developing another one.
The huge flaw with the transmission, no matter the hp, is that it won't downshift, is generally clunky, and never is in the gear you want. That's why the acceleration is not great.
Had they offered a proper manual tranny, then they coulda upped the hp. The Contour SVT with 2.5l v6 had 200 hp. The 3.4v8 is a descendant. If we interpolate the hp from the SVT to the v8 it easily coulda had about 270 hp.
So, the v8 concept was not bad....it was the execution of the concept that was not realized.
**************
back to CTS......can't wait for that 3.6l version to hit......I wanna see the times on that.
regfootball, yeah I'm really wanting to hold off on a CTS until the new engine comes out. As fun to drive as the car is now, more power will make it even better. I also hope the 3.6 has the same type of deep(almost V8 like) rumble in the exhaust like my Intrigue has.
Anybody think that is a good MSRP for the Vseries CTS?
Also, I have to set the time on the digital clock 4 minutes fast to get the analog clock to show the right time - I've seen other posts here about that problem.
Pretty small complaints on an otherwise great car, but I would like to get them fixed.
I'll try back in month or so to drive a manual, if not I may go to another dealer. 0% thru January.