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Cadillac CTS/CTS-V

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Comments

  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    Thanks for checking back in. We thought we had "lost" you. But I guess you have been working.

    Is there any way we can get the Xenon headlights seperated from the 1SB package?

    I want a 1SA with the PDX Sport Package and Xenons.

    Thanks.
  • rob35ctsrob35cts Member Posts: 53
    I also noticed the problem with the big jump in sound between one notch and the other.
  • oldsman01oldsman01 Member Posts: 1,203
    I don't think anything will equal a BMW engine in MT's view. My guess is the 3.6 is probably equally as good as both the Infiniti and Bimmer motor. Knock GM all you want, but one thing they can do when they set their minds and resources to it is build a world class engine. Finally, they are building world class cars to put those engines in. I can't wait to drive a Northstar in a proper RWD application.
  • jemillerjemiller Member Posts: 183
    Hmmm. One of our M5 board members got in on a focus group in SoCal where I understand they got to flog a CTS-V, a C32, an M5 and an M3 over the Angeles Crest Hwy. He was quite impressed, though in the end he still preferred the Beast.

    http://www.bmwm5.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=316- - 45&perpage=20&pagenumber=3

    Sent an email sometime back to one of the marketing contacts in the CTS-V press release, suggesting if he wanted to send one out to NorCal we could probably get our local collection of 15-20 M5 owners (and a few M3, 540i, and S4/S6 types) together to look it over. Not sure if I really expected a response, but didn't get one.

    Looking forward to getting my hands on one sometime anyway...
  • rfdevil1rfdevil1 Member Posts: 43
    I was definitely not knocking the GM motor at all. I was just emphasizing the point you also make that MT is hard pressed to give credit where credit is due when comparing a GM motor to their beloved german cars. In fact, I'll be picking up a CTS tomorrow morning for a 24hr test drive. This way I'll actually have it for 48hrs. If it's the one I think they're using for test drives its a luxsport w/ auto model. As much as I would like to get a manual, it's not going to happen as long as I have a ring on my finger. Anyway, if I do get the CTS I will most likely wait for the '04 unless I stumble on a deal I can't pass up.
  • sevenfeet0sevenfeet0 Member Posts: 486
    Thanks for checking in. The owner base of this car is growing steadily and I'm happy to hear that GM/Cadillac is being proactive in solving design issues about the car now rather than wait for the next major revision. This new thinking bodes well for the new design philosophy at GM.

    Speaking of which, we all are drooling over the idea of getting our hands on a CTS-V as well. My only suggestion would be to please get an automatic in this car eventually, even if it takes a little while. In my case, my legs are too long to deal with three pedels effectively in this car, but I'm sure that other people will have their reasons for choosing an automatic, even in a car like this.

    Of course, if we could get a paddle shifter, then no one would complain! :-)
  • tornado25tornado25 Member Posts: 267
    quote:

    Tornado, the position of the cruise control on the bottom of the steering wheel was a very bad ergonomic mistake to begin with. Do you really want to be feeling along the bottom of the wheel at 80 mph or so in order to engage cruise,
    ___________________________________________

    I agree. I wasn't really thinking of it that way and/or wasn't aware that's where the buttons were before. On other cars I've had or driven, the cruise buttons were up more in the center (between the air bag and the sides of the steering wheel).

    On most Chryslers, that's how it was set up with audio controls "underneath" your fingers, so to speak. I still think cruise on the stalk is a very bad idea. To me, they should have kept them on the wheel, but located them better.
  • cu95cu95 Member Posts: 96
    automole and rob35cts,
    Thanks for responding, now I know I'm not crazy. Unfortunately, it sounds like I didn't just end up with a bad volume adjust that a replacement radio could solve.

    bingoman,
    The service rep made the same comment about the fasteners, speculating that it was a factory oversight. Of all the things to forget to install, that's probably as harmless as they come. Hopefully my CTS has all of its other parts. :-)

    re: cruise control
    I agree that I've seen better on-wheel cruise control controls, but the CTS has already used the most desirable real estate on the wheel for the radio controls and 4 customizable buttons, and I wouldn't want to give those up. The spacing and shape of the cruise control buttons at the bottom could have been better I think, but I still like them there versus having them on a stalk. Plus, after a few uses, I can now manipulate by feel so looking down from the road shouldn't hopefully occur.
  • oldsman01oldsman01 Member Posts: 1,203
    Why can't Cadillac use a cruise control stalk on the lower right hand side of the wheel the way they did on 98-00 Sevilles(and where the 01- present Oldsmobile Aurora and many Lexus products have it)? At least they aren't using the old "multi-function" turn signal stalk that also incorporates the wipers.
  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,192
    "Speaking of which, we all are drooling over the idea of getting our hands on a CTS-V as well. My only suggestion would be to please get an automatic in this car eventually, even if it takes a little while. In my case, my legs are too long to deal with three pedels effectively in this car, but I'm sure that other people will have their reasons for choosing an automatic, even in a car like this.

    Of course, if we could get a paddle shifter, then no one would complain! :-) " - sevenfeet0

    What he said!!!

    Thanks,
    - Ray
    Oncy six feet tall - but with other reasons . . .
    2022 X3 M40i
  • bigdaddycoatsbigdaddycoats Member Posts: 1,058
    a 04 CTS base with 3.6 and auto only for a test drive last night. I have driven a couple of 03s and there is a definite improvement with the new 3.6. Acceleration is very smooth and quick at any speed. I have wanted a CTS since they came out and the changes really make me want to get one! Unfortunately I will have to wait a bit - 6.9% financing and no lease numbers as of yet. Here is what I want:
    04 CTS
    silver smoke
    3.6
    sport package
    I was told 6-8 weeks from time I order. MSRP of 34410. $30600 with GM discount. So, do I get one now or wait for the manual with the 3.6?
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Saw the Motor Trend "First Drive" and it sounds like the 3.6L is good but not the best. I'm not surprised as the other two motors have has some time for refinements so to be fair, GM should be given a little bit of slack there. So long as it's close and the power/ handling is there, I'm sure CTS sales will continue to flourish.
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    Mine will be optioned identically.

    I was going to play the game and wait
    till August to order. I would count on it coming in during October. There would be incentives as there usually are during that time of year.
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    I think we were set up for disappointment when Cadillac was bragging how the motor did x amount of hp at the lowest cost.
    In other words GM figured out how to cut cost and still bring in the performance.
    Refinement usually suffers when cost is the overriding goal.
    What I am concerned about is that the Nissan motor has had several negative comments made about it in regards to high rpm refinement.
    Some mags have felt that at 287 hp it is maxxed out and geting a little rough on the high end.
    One would think that Cadillac would have set the bar higher.
    I am making these comments without having seen the mag reviews or driven the car.
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    Are they letting people take delivery of the '04s yet?
  • bigdaddycoatsbigdaddycoats Member Posts: 1,058
    Yes, they originally got 10 04s in and have sold two or three already.
  • wwhite2wwhite2 Member Posts: 535
    I can operate the cruise controls and not have to look ???? Sure I had to look the first fews times but now I remember.
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    This weeks production was 1204.
    I wonder if the start of the SRX production slowed things down.
    50 SRX's were produced this week.
  • vcjumpervcjumper Member Posts: 1,110
    reading the bmwm5 forum vs the cheers and gears one. The cheers and gears one always makes me feel like I'm in grade 10.
  • jemillerjemiller Member Posts: 183
    Cost reduction is, in general, a good thing.

    It's very difficult to build an oversquare 60-degree V6 that *isn't* smooth. Anyone who's griping about the smoothness of the Nissan VQ35 really ought to get a life.

    Unlike, say, the old Quad4 POS - there's a clear example where GM took the cost-cutting too far, an inline-four over 2 liters *must* have balance shafts. That engine had many other problems, but even if it'd been decently reliable it'd still have been completely unacceptable from an NVH standpoint.

    Back to the 3.6L V6. Remember, it's not a Cadillac engine, it's going in Holdens and Buicks and eventually a bunch of other vehicles as well. It's basically replacing the 3.8L pushrod Buick V6 and eventually others as well.
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    There will be a newer line of pushrod V6's based on the current 60 degree motors.
    The Malibu is first with the 3.5L 200hp.
    Then there will be a 3.9L with 240 hp.

    Personally I would like to see the 3.6L available as an option across the entire GM midsize line.

    It would make the Impala one hell of a cop car.
  • oldsman01oldsman01 Member Posts: 1,203
    Some of the die hards would hate it, but I think the 3.6 would be great for the new GP. The 3800 is a good engine, but I think it is nearing the end of the road in terms of how much further potential it has.
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    Yeah, the GP and Impala are a full 200 lbs lighter than the CTS.
    Put a 3.45 gear in the GP and a FWD 5 speed auto and you have a car that is much more refined and quicker than the current GTP.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    I think you will see a 3.5L or 3.4L version of the motor for other GM sedans. GM should keep this one for higher end cars like the the CTS and some of the Buicks.
  • rstephrsteph Member Posts: 109
    Gonna do it (myself) this weekend. Picked up a couple of oil filters from CarQuest...around $9 ea. I look in the boxes and it's like "What the &$^^% are these???". No filter like I've ever seen before. Anyway, any tips from you do-it-yourself-er's. I hear the drain plug/plate is a star torque bolt. Anyone know the bit size right off??
  • vcjumpervcjumper Member Posts: 1,110
    I doubt we will see anything as close in size to it as a 3.5L based off of it.. Maybe more likely is doing what Nissan does with their VQ.. Detune it slightly for the lower end Altima.
  • automoleautomole Member Posts: 154
    I agree! I've driven my fair share of manual transmissions and honestly I'm sick of it. I guess I'm getting old, but being 35 with a 1 year old and using the CTS as my daily city commute vehicle I wouldn't be looking forward to driving a stick again anytime soon. An automatic makes it much easier to handle a screaming kid and a coffee. It also makes it much more enjoyable when you're stuck sitting at a stoplight or in traffic which is 60% of my everyday driving. I'm not saying that the manual trans for the CTS-V shouldn't be an option...I just hope that Cadillac doesn't forget about those of us that prefer an auto.

    Having driven a manual transmission for so many years I'm amazed at how many people insist on one for 'performance'. The new automatics are great IMO (the CTS's especially) and offer plenty of performance for stoplight drag racing. -Just my biased opinion.
  • oldsman01oldsman01 Member Posts: 1,203
    My guess is the CTS-V will be manual only for the first year then they will offer a slushbox. Kind of ironic, the CTS with the 3.6 will be auto only for it's first year then will get a stick in it's second year.
  • sevenfeet0sevenfeet0 Member Posts: 486
    Agreed. I'm 38 years old with a screaming 3 *day* old! A stick shift is not in the cards for me or my wonderful wife at this stage of our life. We still like and want to buy fun vehicles though.
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    Congratulations.

    It won't be too much longer that you will be telling us that the CTS is being replaced by a minivan.
    Or maybe you can arrange it so the wife gets the minivan and you get the CTS.
  • mannytrannymannytranny Member Posts: 175
    I really sort of agree with the others that have said about using a manual trans. I suppose that traffic with all of the stop and start, screamming kids in the car, having a beverage in one hand and maybe even a cell phone in the other would make driving a manual trans out of the question in today's world. Thank goodness one one needs another hand free for a cigarette.
         A manual trans gives the driver a real feel and connection with the car that is missed in an auto. I feel that I am one with the car and not just along for the ride. I tend to leave my drag racing however to the dragstrip. I do use 1st gear at a traffic light to have some fun with the cars aside of me.
         I have only driven a manual trans and had to use a rental while my CTS was being serviced. I had a chance to drink beverages, eat a sandwich, use cell phones, and scream at back seat drivers and comb my hair, clean my sunglasses, pulling out a stuck cassette tape, dust the dash and remove pieces of lint from the passenger's seat, all in traffic. What fun it was!
        I wonder how people functioned when there were only manual transmissions for the majority of cars.. I guess that driving was just driving........point A to point B.......and no..........
        I was told by a Cadillac salesperson that a luxury car has an auto trans and that a sport model comes with a manual trans. That means that my CTS with a luxury pkg. but with a manual trans is not a luxury car at all so I should expect to get to do all the extra luxurious things.
        I will just have to wait for a CTS V.
         Just IMO.
  • jemillerjemiller Member Posts: 183
    While I can understand not wanting to row a manual gearbag in commute traffic, at the same time I wouldn't want to lose the immediacy and control that you can't get with a typical slushbox.

    Yes, a slushbox is better for stoplight drags, but I don't really do that; what matters to me is which works better lapping Thunderhill or carving up secondary roads.

    I don't love clutch pedals, but there's very few torque-converter-coupled automatics that produce the degree of control you get with something that's purely a mechanical coupling.

    Further, to make the whole thing work decently with an automatic, they'd need 5 or 6 ratios in the slushbox, something that doesn't seem to be on GM's plate. I suppose they could go out and buy ZF 6HP26s like BMW and Jaguar...

    ...which brings up two closing points. First, the kickdown behavior of many automatic transmissions these days is abysmal. I want the transmission to be down a gear (or two) as soon as the gas pedal has moved an inch. Like, IMMEDIATELY. Not sure if this is a CAFE issue or something else unique to the US market (two recent slushboxes I've driven in Australia did *not* have this problem) but it's a source of great annoyance.

    Secondly, the CTS-V is not intended to be a car for everyone, or for all uses. Where do you draw the line? First it's an automatic, then you'll have people asking for a softer ride and complaining the big tires wear out too quickly, or that the seats are too aggressive for them.

    If GM acted on every criticism you'd have a car completely devoid of focus, lacking the crisp edge it needs to compete in the NARROW segment it's intended to sell to.

    GM still has to prove that it *can* produce a focused, sharp, capable product.
  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    "First, the kickdown behavior of many automatic transmissions these days is abysmal. I want the transmission to be down a gear (or two) as soon as the gas pedal has moved an inch. Like, IMMEDIATELY."

    That's pretty much in a nutshell the whole reason not to want a slushbox. It never works the way you want it to. No control over what it does. Feels disconnected. Feels cheap. Breaks down.

    BTW, what does having a kid have to do with having an auto vs. a stick? If your kid is in a car seat in the back belted in, and you're supposed to be paying attention to the road 100%.......it should not make a difference whether you have a stick or auto.
  • richw5richw5 Member Posts: 152
    For the past week, I've been thinking of what to write about the birth of your first born and I finally realized that there's nothing I could write, to say enough.

    I have a grandson, by my youngest step-son, that has become my best buddy. He is the reason we traded my Vette for a CTS, to get a second car for transporting the baby. While we don't get to see him as often as I would like, each visit is a trip into wonderment.

    Nothing is more important than your child! View each day as an experience in learning, for as you teach your child, you will learn new things from him/her(not sure if it's a boy or girl).

    The little boy two doors down, brings my Sunday paper to the door every Sunday. He's 2 years old and a flower person. He always has a dandelion for his mom or my wife. Last week we got wet together under his "Elmo" lawn sprinkler. It was cold, but fun.

    My grandson loves mechanical things and will open and close a water bottle to see how the cap works. If you look closely, you can see how their mind works as they figure out how to sit up, crawl, walk and later on, ask for your car keys. Enjoy and have fun.

    Congratulations!

    Rich
  • jemillerjemiller Member Posts: 183
    I think you're off the mark with the 'feels cheap, breaks down' comment. Some automatics are more fragile than others, but it is entirely possible to build a solid, durable automatic and GM's done a better job at this than most.

    I agree that I also don't understand the correlation between 'baby' and 'automatic'.
  • sonjaabsonjaab Member Posts: 1,057
    REG is down on ANY GM iron. YADA, YADA, He just likes to rain on anybodys parade. Ask what he drives..............Have a laugh.......

    Just don't tell him those superior makes, Rolls Royce, BMW, etc use those SUPERIOR GM automatics.
    As well as other GM innovative parts..........

    Ask him about the many failures of those SUPERIOR toyota autos. mated with the V-6s in a camry or lexus..................LOL
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    Don't understand why there is such a delay on kickdown.
    My Intrigue was like this. Cruise exactly at 30 mph. put your foot in to it. Wait 2 seconds then it would kickdown into 1st so hard that it would sometimes chirp the tires.
    Surprised the hell out of me the first time it hapened.
    Surprised a whole lot of guys in so called fast cars after I found that sweet spot.
    I can't see how the delay then the extremley hard hit could be good for the transmission.
    i do know that all modern cars retard the timing right before the upshift.
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    Probably one of the best transmissions ever made.
    Used by Rolls Royce as sojaab posted.
  • wwhite2wwhite2 Member Posts: 535
    Why ? Next you will be getting those old "baby on board signs".
    Eating ,phoning and babies are not supposed to be distracting while driving
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    Someone posted in the GP thread that there is a $1000 rebate on all '03 GM vehicles in Canada.

    Wonder if we will see that soon on the remaining '03 CTS's?
  • automoleautomole Member Posts: 154
    First off...lighten up everyone! It never ceases to amaze me how anything you post on a bulletin board is open for interpretation and criticism. Everything must be 100% politically correct and everything you write must be 100% true and accurate.

    The truth of the matter is that I exaggerate in order to make a point. Sure, you should be paying attention to the road if you have a baby in the car...and sure, you should be able to drive a manual transmission just fine even if you do have a baby. I could get by just fine with a baby and a manual CTS-V (and I might do just that) but the truth is I'd prefer an auto. Whether you realize it or not it's much easier managing a baby while driving an auto.

    Oh, and we all know that we would NEVER EVER EVER drag race another car at a stoplight; the CTS-v is to be used to its full potential at the RACETRACK ONLY! ;)

    Driving in stop and go traffic really does get old fast with a manual tranny car...having a baby only adds to the confusion...my opinion, end of story.

    As for automatics being unreliable...name a few!
    Another reason for my automatic preference is that I like a manual tranny for the first few thousand miles when everything is new...after awhile the pressure plate and clutch disc wear and it's not as much fun to drive. I HATE replacing clutch parts and I guarantee if you have a manual transmission you'll be having work done on it before you'd have to do anything with an automatic. Just my opinion.
  • jemillerjemiller Member Posts: 183
    Name a few unreliable automatics? Well, pretty much all the first couple million Chrysler K-car/minivan FWD transaxles. The AXOD Ford put in the Taurus had a pretty good failure rate. The ZF 4HP18 and 4HP22 are not considered terribly reliable, part of this may be that they blow up if run above idle for more than a very brief period while in neutral (as is common in smog tests, for instance.) And so forth.

    Agreed about clutches, some cars (and some drivers) do far better on this front than others.

    BMW used the 4-speed GM automatic in US-market cars for a while because of low US speeds, the rest of the world got 5-speed ZF boxes. The US finally went to 5-speed boxes a few years back, some ZF, some GM.

    The Turbo 400 is certainly beefy, but the world has moved long past three-speed and, for that matter, mostly past four-speed automatics too. The ZF 6HP26 gets you six forward gears with a lower parts count than the 5HP24, not sure if they actually sell it to mfrs cheaper. Mercedes is hopping straight from 5 to 7 gears for their big V8s and V12s.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,618
    is a way of life for me. It has resulted in less, rather than more, pleasure over the past week or ten days, and I'm sure you've endured similar sessions.

    My put on manual transmissions is simply that. . .they're simple. They rarely break, and if used properly, the clutch will last well over 75K miles. The people who like them best treat shifting gears much like breathing -- it's absolutely no deal whatsoever, let alone a big one. Riding a bicycle and having driven a Class 8 truck for a few years has left me with the concept that shifting two or three times just to get across an intersection is not a problem. Driving in Phoenix rush-hour traffic with a manual involves lots of shifting, which I don't find onerous.

    Clearly the American public feels differently, and many otherwise excellent vehicles are never going to be driven by me since they don't provide a manual (I'm sure they're losing sleep over this). Cadillac appears to be supporting the manual concept for the time being, but I can assure you that the only other American competitor not only doesn't, but doesn't want to hear from anyone who does.
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • jemillerjemiller Member Posts: 183
    "Only other American competitor"?

    The clear lesson of the past forty years is that Ford and GM spent decades scrimmaging with one another while the rest of the world's auto industries went trotting on past.

    Staying in the same blinkered mindset would be the quickest route to irrelevance.
  • oldsman01oldsman01 Member Posts: 1,203
    Your right about the Intrigue's automatic, it wants to wait until the last possible second before deciding to downshift. Ironically, when I had a Cadillac SLS as a rental last summer, I felt as if the tranmission was somehow connected to my brain as nearly the exact moment that I thought the car should downshift, it did. Hit the gas hard while in 3rd and it quickly dropped a gear or two and brought the Northstar to life, unlike the Intrigue which waits then as you've nearly floored the throttle, drops a gear and feels as if it is going to tear the whole thing out of the car. I've driven other GM cars which have the 4T65E transaxle, but mated to a 3800 and I think that transmission works much more in unison with the 3800 than the 3.5.
  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    so you've at least now admitted you want the automatic because its an automatic you want and not because of the baby.....
  • automoleautomole Member Posts: 154
    "so you've at least now admitted you want the automatic because its an automatic you want and not because of the baby....."

    Did I say that? Really my reason(s) for not wanting an automatic is 60% in-town driving in congested traffic, 5% baby, 10% clutch deterioration over time, and 25% Starbucks double-tall mocha.

    Again, I should have been more clear when I said "name a few unreliable automatics"...I should have narrowed the criteria by saying "name a few unreliable automatics that exist in any rear wheel drive car that I would possibly consider buying and/or is in the same class as the CTS". The K-car and Taurus are a bit of a stretch, aren't they? I hear that Yugo didn't make very good transmissions either...

    I've got to give credit to you guys for making this an interesting discussion board!
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    You guys forgot to add the Acural CL/TL to the list. Those things are failing right and left.
    Understand the Accord is having it's fair share of problems too.

    Manuals don't bother me in stop and go traffic if I am driving 4 cylinder car. Their clutch pedals are so light that you barely have to think about what you are doing.

    My Camaro's clutch pedal is another matter.
    I imagine with 400 hp. the CTS-V's will not be the lightest either.
  • wwhite2wwhite2 Member Posts: 535
    clutch spring pressures are not that bad ,compared to drag racing clutches . A little bit of left leg exercise while driving shouldnt be a problem but remember you should "consult your doctor before starting any exercise program ".
     Manual transmissions are much more durable than autos, even as autos improve. If you are good to a clutch you can get 150K to 200K from it . and you dont have to rebuild the transmission as you would with an automatic . the same scenario with an automatic would be that you would only have to change the torque converter ......and how often does that happen
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    I have a stock clutch in my Camaro and the top of my knee hurts after about 10-15 minutes of stop and go.
    To reiterate what you said about manual longevity.
    I put my first and only clutch in at 105,000 miles for $400.
    I now have 205,000 miles. No other work done on it.
    And I am a hard driver.

    Most of the problems with the T5 were the fork bending and problems with 5th gear.
    The T56(CTS-V tranny) has had issues with noise (rattling) and under high horsepower conditions the clutch not wanting to release.
    Also the clutches don't tend to last as long on the t56 due to the higher horsepower they are handling.
    I have heard of people replacing their's at 40,000 miles.
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