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Comments
1. a rap song from the rapper B.G. of the group Hot Boyz reffering to the glistening of chrome/diamonds, because of the songs popularity (I'm sure no one on this board has ever heard it
oldsman01: twikes
anyone got an idea on when CTS-V coming out? I was told by a dealer that it wasn't until sring 04...but by further research I think they thought I was reffering to 04 STS
I was dropping off my CTS for a new manual transmission and I noticed that of the eight 04 CTS on the lot NONE had a body color rear plate bezel . When are they supposed to be body color .
The dealer had a silver Lux sport on the floor ....10K mi no nav asking 32900 .
Also, the Kronix Virus IS a great looking wheel but like most of the wheels I've found it's only 7.5 inches wide...unless I want to go to 20" "dubs".
b4z: When I was at the dealer they gave me a pamphlet on the SRX. I picked it up because my Dad is interested in possibly buying a SRX if they arrive on the dealer lots anytime soon. The literature was interesting because it was actually for the dealers (not the consumer). It compared the SRX to the other SUV's in it's class and described the target buyer (if my memory serves me right it was age 50-60 with an anual income of $150K) which was much older and much more wealthy than myself. They also had a nice article in this month's Car and Driver on the SRX. If I could afford one I'd trade in the family station wagon (PT Cruiser) and buy an SRX for my wife in a heartbeat! I still like my main vehicle to be a car though, and the CTS has plenty of room for Me + Spouse + Baby + 2 Passengers.
golfnut5: Did the service department give you a hassle about replacing the instrument cluster...and do you know if there was a TSB on the clock fix?
1. They replaced the manual trans . The noise is gone . It even seems to shift better .
2.I had mentioned that during a cold start the starter drive seemed to hang on a bit to long . They replaced the starter.
3. I requested the steering recall be performed ,they did
4 . They are 0 for 2 on having a Cadillac as a loaner car
How long did it take? Did you watch at all?
I'll still wait til the fall when it's cooler. I don't know if I want to take the old trans to the drags or the new one??
YTD 2003 vs. 2002
CTS 38,235 vs. 25,876
deville 44,676 vs. 53,860
eldo 0 vs. 2721
seville 10,594 vs. 16,212
escalade 24,598 vs. 23,905
escalde esv 8782 vs. 0
escalde ext 7,410 vs. 11,477
TOTAL
135,457 vs. 134,051
Cadillac has built about 1400 more vehicles this year than last.
But 3 of their vehicles are selling significantly less than they were a year before.
Looks like the CTS is basically carrying the whole company.
They have the momentum, I hope that the new cars coming out will be successful.
BTW, regarding the note about moisture in an '04 rear licence plate surround, I think it's due to a leak that allows moisture laden air to get in, not a rain leak. The moisture condenses as the temperature changes.
Still...I don't know if I EVER see myself "Upgrading". If possible I'll trade my CTS in for the V series in a couple of years assuming the economy improves and I have more play money; that's a big "if" though considering one of this month's magazines predicted the MSRP would be around $53K and that Cadillac dealer's would try to jack up the price. A $55K car is way out of my price range at this point in my life...and the SRX looks great but by the time you option it out you're looking at around $50K for it. As for the XLR I don't see myself ever paying $80K for a car that has less horsepower than a Corvette, Mustang Cobra, or CTS-V. I'd rather have a Hummer H2 than an Escalade. If the new DTS drives anything like the current one it will be a cold day in H@!! before I "upgrade" to one of those. The STS is probably bigger than I would like and would probably be difficult to fit in my smallish garage. So...what I'm saying is that it's highly unlikely that I'll EVER be upgrading and helping Cadillac out with a sales "snowball".
It's not surprising to me that the CTS is "carrying the whole company". Personally, before the CTS existed I would have never considered buying a new Cadillac. Now that I've owned the CTS for a year I can say that it's likely I'll buy another one in the future.
Hey, mannytranny, did you ever end up taking your CTS out to the drag strip? If so, what did it run? I was thinking about hauling mine out, and was looking at probably mid-16s (I'm at altitude), so I was tryingto get a sea-level baseline for comparison.
We are obviously in a facetious free zone.
Perhaps you could warn us next time with a preface.
"My next sentence is facetious."
The 5er is still a manageable car for those who don't want anything too big (like us) but the 7er is way too big, and it doesn't help that BMW, Audi, Mercedes, etc. won't bring in the short-wheelbase versions of their big models anymore.
Anyone have any experience with these items?
If you're an M3 buyer, you're buying a smaller car, and you WANT a smaller car. There's three M3 demographics - the 'little sedan' bunch, the 'sports car' bunch, and the 'track hound' bunch. The former will cross-shop Audi S4s, maybe the C32 and the Scooby STi. The second is looking at Porsche Carreras or maybe the Z06 Vette. The third is looking at Scoobys, Z06 Vettes, Mitsu Evos.
Note that most of the above applies to coupe buyers, not convertible buyers, who seem to be a completely different demographic and one I haven't really figured out yet. The only real crossover there is probably with the Carrera.
The CTS-V is a different animal. Its most direct new-car competition is going to be the 6-speed 545i. If you're shopping the CTS-V, you're probably looking at used M5s, maybe the Audi A6 2.7T. Maybe the S4, maybe the C32. And a significant fraction of CTS-V buyers are going to be people who just want a big Detroit V8, period, though amongst that bunch there's always a few who can't understand why any car should cost more than $30K.
Adding to your buyer demographics:
I think the CTS-V will sell like hot cakes for about the first 18 months then we will see discounting like any Cadillac.
There will also be the guys who buy it as a 3rd or 4th car, keep it a few years then sell it.
Another group will be the surgeons who are making 4-600K who buy thinking it will be the end all be all, and become dissatisfied because it does not have the interior materials or design that they are used to in a Benz or a M5.
These guys will also sell it in a year or two.
I think after a year there will be a nice supply of used CTS-Vs on the market.
Did I see a someone say stearing recall? Details please.
All the 'toy' cars go through that. The E39 M5 started on that phase about late 2002. You had a few folks move over to Porsche C4s or 996TTs, or Benz S55s, now new E55s, etc. A lot of 'em are coming off lease, and to the end of their factory warranty. So a fair number of M5s are now on their second owners, or in some cases maybe third. Pricing on 2000 M5s is getting to be pretty attractive.
The question is what GM will do to keep the CTS-V fresh? More HP? SMG transmission? New bodywork? And when?
dindak -
There's definitely room for a larger car than the CTS. But how do you position the models in your lineup? The 5er is the 'family' BMW, the 7er is more of the banker's-commute-car.
>going to be people who just want a big Detroit
> V8, period, though amongst that bunch there's
>always a few who can't understand why any car
>should cost more than $30K.
...that would be me. I want big Detroit V8 muscle and I DON'T understand why an optioned out CTS (not ANY car and not necessarily the CTS-V) should cost more than $30K. I DO understand why the CTS-v will cost more than $30k however...it's because idiots (myself included) are willing to pay that much for it!!
I got a coupon in the mail yesterday for C$750 off any GM car on top of anything else. It applies to 03 and 04 models. Unfortunately it applies only to people with competitive makes (which we don't have anymore) and we aren't going to be in the market until next year at the earliest.
When I want to ride in a comfortable fast car, that will hold 4 or 5 adults. I'll take the STS. It's a lot faster than most people think and I do take advantage of that at stoplights. Some of our friends are getting up there in age and weight, so it's easier for them to get in and out of the back seat of the STS. It is not.... a big car by American standards and was shortened in 1998 for sale in the European market.
When I want to drive, really drive, I take the CTS. It handles so well, it feels like you become part of the car. Just like flying a fighter plane, you strap into the cockpit and zoom you're off. Then again, it's not that small. The CTS is similar in size to the BMW 5-Series, as others have pointed out.
Still, I'm jealous of anyone who bought an '04 CTS with the 3.6L engine. In my opinion, the CTS should have had the extra horses right from the get go.
Will I go for a CTS-V? Probably not, insurance rates will keep production of Cadillac's V-Series cars down to a "manageable number". After all, the CTS-V was meant to bring you into the showroom, so that you would buy a CTS.
The STS will probably be traded for a year old SRX, when the dealer gets one off lease. The again, there's always the lottery.
I think there will be ADP for 18 months and then you should be able to get it for sticker.
This is why the CTS is RWD, and why future Cadillacs should be RWD, the HP expectations of the marketplace in the US are just so far beyond what FWD can handle comfortably.
One concern of mine is the short blurb on the upcoming STS in this month's car and driver. It mentioned that Lutz is planning on "softening" the lines on Cadillacs over the next couple of years. In my opinion this would be a big mistake...I think one of the big selling points is it's distinctive sharp-edged look. IMO if GM looses the "edge" they will also loose their profit margin on these cars. I hope I can get into the CTS-v before they change the styling.
However all of the development costs will have to be amortized. Wheels, additional structural changes and gusseting, brakes, cooling, interior changes, ext. changes. etc. etc.
That costs a LOT of money. I wouldn't be surprised if the development costs for the "V" series was in the 10's of millions of dollars.
I have told this story before, but when Chevrolet decided to give the Camaro SS a new 17" 10 spoke wheel to supplement the 5 spoke ZR1 style wheel they spent 1.2 million dollars!! Evidently the
aluminum they used didn't take well to polishing so they had to go back to the drawing board.
Think about how many Camaros they had to sell to get back that 1.2M.
As far as the V costing 50K it is worth it.
I am guessing that the LS6 costs less to manufacture than the 3.6L. But performance comes at a price.
Remember a 4.3L Mercedes costs the same to build as a 5.0L Mercedes. Msrp is about 8-10K higher.
Even with the additional equipment that the 5.0 has it is still a cash cow for Mercedes.
On a unit-by-unit basis, they will make some money, but they're not going to make enough of them to rate. They'll give some of it back, too, on warranty clutch and transmission replacements because folks will be out trying to do a 13-flat quarter-mile, and because a certain proportion of the potential buyers for the car haven't driven a manual transmission since they were nineteen (if ever.)
But it's the price Cadillac has to pay to sit at the table with the big boys, to be taken seriously when someone goes looking for a serious sports sedan.
BMW sold just under 300K E39 5-series models a year worldwide, but that's sliced up across seven different basic engines (gasoline and diesel), at least five different transmissions, and a pile of stuff that has to be different for each national market. I don't quite know how many different combinations will be offered on the E60 yet, some aren't available yet.
I'd use the early-mid 90's Impala's/Caprices to illustrate. Towards the end, the police and taxi drivers loved those cars. But the "civilian" market didn't (although I'm sure a fair number were sold there too.) In the end, though, the "specialty" market for those cars was not enough to keep the line alive. (There was even a group of investors who seriously looked at buying the dies for those cars with the idea that they would continue making them year after year for the cops and cabbies. Their research showed that that market alone, along with some civilian sales thrown in, was not enough to make their plan profitable.)
Anyway, even agreeing that the "V" is the halo car, etc...it still will need to maintain some sort of basic sales goal or, as with any car model, it will go away. They will only underwrite a model so far and so long. Just how long that longevity will be is an unknown. This is not, by any means, meant to be criticism of the "V". The whole longevity concept is, afterall, generic to any and all car models being made.
The RWD GM sedans were killed off in '96 due to the '97 side impact regulations.
GM didn't want to spend anymore money on the platform to bring it up to spec.
All of the doors and the Bpillar needed complete redesigning.
Gm never seriously considered selling the dies to any one. Too much liability on their part and the car still needed significant redesigning.
Plus it would have been in competition.
Toyota and Honda have no halo car, yet they're selling like gangbusters. Chrysler has the Viper and can't stop losing money. I suspect the greatest effect the GT has on Ford is that it costs a fortune in R&D. Each model has to sell itself. Nobody buys the Malibu because the Corvette heads the lineup. And just because Toyota no longer makes the Supra is no reason for anyone to stay away from the Camry.
Nissan has a halo car in the Z, but the Altima and Maxima are so much more important to Nissan's fortune and revival.