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Cadillac CTS/CTS-V



  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I knew you would say the E55. In what way is that car hindered by not having one? The car posts extraordinary numbers, unlike the Jaguar.

  • jemillerjemiller Posts: 183
    Numbers aren't everything.

    It depends on what you buy the car for. By all accounts, the E55 has the motor of the Gods. Well, Hera or Apollo perhaps - Zeus drives a twin-turbo S600. But - and once again I'll say I haven't driven one - none of what I've read (and mag road tests always need to be run through one's personal sanity-filter anyway) much likes the E55's feel on track or when used really hard in anything but freeway-flyer use.

    My experience with powerful open-diff cars being flogged hard in track use or even at eight-tenths on tight or poorly-surfaced roads is that they feel 'ragged' without a limited-slip. Tight turns and lumpy pavement leave them lurching, chirping their tires and just feeling uncomfortable, and this has so far proven true regardless of traction/stability control.

    As for the Jag, everyone rags on the poor S-Type R but in the comparison test that Georg Kacher wrote up for Car (Brit mag) there was a little box, not referenced in the text, where it referenced road-course lap times, and the Jag appeared to beat everyone else by a pretty fair margin. I wish they'd provided more details. This was the same test that, in abbreviated form, got published in Automobile over here.

    Published 0-150 times on the Jag are closer to 540i numbers than M5; I have to wonder whether its aerodynamics are crap, or whether the engine controls won't let you have full boost for 30 seconds. In any case, it's also priced more like a 540i than an M5, it's the CTSv's closest competitor on price, and GM still ought to be able to undercut it by $12K.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Ok, I'll agree with that to a point about cars in general, but I have yet to see where the E55 has been compromised in that respect. I don't think any car with that much power is going to behave perfectly on a really poor surface reguardless of the diff type. Tight manuvers, you're right....I've felt that myself. The E55 isn't favored on the track due to it's suspension and steering feel mainly, that and body roll....not because of it's power delivery. The Jaguar has that problem. In Jaguar's defense they contend that they didn't set out to build an M5. I'll have to look at the CAR article again, as I didn't see that about the S-Type R's lap times. I'm waiting to see the numbers on the CTSv, it should be a rocket with the Z06's motor.

  • bingomanbingoman Posts: 373
    Please take your debate somewhere else, this is the Cadillac CTS board.
  • ctsambamctsambam Posts: 2
    thanks for the suggestions, Rich... I lived in Chicagoland for 8 winters and even bought a 1985 300Z while living in the near north area (Wrigleyville)... kept it in a garage on weekdays (thank goodness for the CTA for getting me to the loop and back) but zipped out to the 'burbs on weekends so the car was always clean...

    the car was blue mist and the carpets were not as light as my tan CTS interior but the ice, salt, slush and black snow definitely had a way of climbing in with me...

    carpet remnants sounds like the answer for me but would any kind of scotchguard-type of application help?... never used the stuff myself... not even on home furniture...

  • cu95cu95 Posts: 96
    As the newest member of the CTS Owners' Club, where do I send my dues? :-) Just picked up my new CTS: base with automatic, sable black with ebony interior, build date Jan '03. And I have Good Friday off! I'm hoping the wife leaves me a list of todo's that require driving, lots of driving. :-)

    Minor peeve: the clocks are out of sync. Anyone know the specifics on how to resolve that so I can tell the service guys when it goes in for its first service? Thanks.
  • bingomanbingoman Posts: 373
    Thanks for the pointer to the pictures. They look great. Although I will stick with my '03 CTS it's nice to know that the V will make all of the other CTS's more recognizable to the public.

    I found it interesting that almost all of the M5 owners on that board found it necessary to avow that although they were interested in seeing the CTS they would never be interested in owning one. As if they had to prove their loyalty to BMW, very amusing.
  • jemillerjemiller Posts: 183
    I don't think there's any issue of 'loyalty' - I can think of a couple board members over there who own Z06s, for instance.

    The CTS design polarizes, and I think most of the "wouldn't buy one" comments are directed at the shape.
  • b4zb4z Posts: 3,372
    Thanks for the post.
    The silver seems to be a smokier color.
    The back end is really improved with the body color license plate surround.
  • mannytrannymannytranny Posts: 175
    Congrats on your CTS! Enjoy the ride!!!!!!!!!!
  • sevenfeet0sevenfeet0 Posts: 486
    Well, it looks like most of the rumors panned out on this car. Admittedly, the general specs were a poorly kept secret. Here's my take on what we've seen so far:

    Power: Woohoo! 400 HP and 390 ft/lbs torque is good enough to play ball in the current horsepower war. It's more than the current M3 and matches the current (but not the next) M5 in these figures. Still, an M5 goes for about 70 large, which makes this seem to be quite the affordable supercar. The Corvette based V8 doesn't have the sexiness of a DOHC design, but nobody out there will doubt the street cred of the Corvette engine. It kicks butt and takes names.

    Drivetrain: Well, we were all wondering what kind of character that Cadillac's V-series brand was going to have. Was it going to be the hard charging no compromising BMW M? Or was it going to be the speed-sled-yet-luxurious Mercedes AMG brand? It looks like the decision NOT to offer an automatic transmission puts Cadillac square in the BMW M school of thought. I don't agree with this decision for personal reasons. Although I can drive a stick, my extreme height makes driving most stickshift cars difficult or impossible, including the CTS (mine is a slushbox model). Maybe one day GM might offer one when the 6 speed automatic is ready for production. But for right now, I can't own one. Hey GM! How about a paddle shifter manual for a future model (like BMW, Audi and Ferrari?) Then everybody wins.

    Chassis: Well, at least they admitted that stuffing a V8 in this car wasn't in the original design specs. With that, they've had to make a numerous amounts of stiffening improvements to an already stiff chassis. This should bode well for the cars handling characteristics. The car gets new sway bars, different shocks, but no magnaride...not sure why. 18 inch wheels are standard. Overall weight is 3800 and change....not Corvette poundage, but less than an M5. To get more than 80% more HP and only add less than 300 lbs of weight ain't bad. A Northstar V8 would have probably weighed more.

    Brakes: Brembos. 'Nuff said.

    Styling: This was telegraphed by Cadillac themselves several months ago, so its no surprise to see the final product. It's nice to see that CTS license frames will be body color now (only black and silver cars previously seemed to match the old frame). Every styling change seems to have a real purpose for the package. The mesh grill isn't original, but nice nonetheless.

    Interior: I've only seen one picture of the interior, but it seems like most of the overall design is unchanged, for better or for worse. The brushed aluminum is interesting and thankfully they didn't go overboard with it. I do miss the wood accents though...that did warm the car up considerably and add a touch of "I bought an expensive car". The gauge cluster looks more serious, although it would be nic e to have all analog temperature/pressure gauges on the dash. There are two new digital instrument clusters which display the other critical temp/pressure and other information. Hopefully it will be useful. And although the emergency brake is redesigned to be smaller, it's still in the wrong place for a car like this.

    I doubt we'll see full road tests of this car for a while, but hopefully GM will allow some editors some seat time in the upcoming months leading to production.
  • thebugthebug Posts: 294
    Congrats on the purchase. I have the black on black also. You're going to love it, the CTS rocks. And you will, without a doubt find excuses to drive it. Enjoy.

  • jemillerjemiller Posts: 183
    CTSv transmission - Tremec has done a sequential-shift version of the T56 for Ford. It is going in the new 'baby' Aston Martin and in the 2005 Mustang Cobra. I'm not sure if Ford's got an exclusive on it for a while, but one might reasonably expect (hope?) it to show up in the CTSv sooner or later.

    Engine/chassis mods to fit LS6 - the LS6 isn't very big. The press release played this up, but the actual level of reworking sounded trivial - oil pan (okay, crossmember's in a different place, the LS1/LS6 snout-driven gerotor oil pump means you can notch the pan for crossmember clearance anywhere you want to), accessory drive and exhaust manifolds (okay, 'Vette's engine compartment is wide and VERY low, CTS's is taller and a little narrower).

    If memory serves, when Mercedes decided to put their DOHC V8 in the W124 E-class, they had to build a separate short-deck version of the engine to get it between the strut towers!

    If GM did not engineer the CTS (which, after all, is comparable in size to the 540i, E500, GS400, etc.) to accommodate engines of, Northstar-width across the cam covers, then they made a very stupid mistake. I don't know the dimensions of the Northstar motors, but the BMW M62TU (540i 4.4L) is 28.5in approx, the Ford 4.6 DOHC mod-motor is about 29in, the LS6 is somewhat narrower than these.
  • sevenfeet0sevenfeet0 Posts: 486
    I'm not surprised that the CTS was not designed with the Northstar V8 in mind. The design for the CTS was supposidly begun in the late 1990s before the current horsepower race. Most of the competition out there relied on 4 or 6 cylinder engines. Bob Lutz was still working for Chrysler.

    But times sometimes change during product development. And now superhorsepower halo cars are needed in order to compete. From an engineering standpoint, it was probably easier to wedge the 'Vette engine in the CTS than to shoehorn or even redesign the Northstar to fit. By the time the SRX was on the drawing boards, the need of a Northstar V8 was more obvious.
  • cu95cu95 Posts: 96
    Thanks. I spent the better part of the day cruising around. I'm trying to be good during the break-in, but it's tough. The CTS is so smooth. I'm looking forward to the 2 hour drive to my wife's family on Sunday.

    I did notice that I was getting a strong vibration sound from the rear in tune with my music's bass. At first I thought the woofer speaker cover or the speaker itself might have been loose, but after a little investigating it turned out it was the emergency trunk release cable, pressed up against the trunk lid, resonating with the bass. A gentle twist of the cable to bend it enough to keep it from contacting the trunk area and problem solved. I mention this because it seems like it could be a possible common occurrence.
  • hydra2hydra2 Posts: 114
    Glad to see that more and more people are buying the cts and enjoying it. Problems seem to to be few and far between and usually minor, like the clock issue. With the intense interest in the follow on models Cadillac seems to have made believers out of a lot of doubters. Hopefully GM can transfer some of the principles of success to the new pontiacs, chevys and one day gasp buicks.

    I thought we would hear no more from all of the so called experts who predicted that the cts would bomb, but many of them simply moved over to the tsx forum ;)

    BTW, I'm seeing more and more females piloting the cts. I wonder if GM and its ad agency checked this changing demographic before or after they launched the recent tv spot featuring a woman driver.

    Happy motoring.
  • sevenfeet0sevenfeet0 Posts: 486
    The Car Connection is reporting that Cadillac will be developing an "S-class" type vehicle for debut in 2007. With this news, the final transformation of Cadillac's product strategy seems to be at hand. The DTS will certainly be going upmarket and leaving the current $45K-$60K market behind. The only product gaps I see now are a CTS coupe and a sport ute positioned between the SRX and the super-sized Escalade. And of course a 2 seater under $40K, like the Z4 or SLK.
  • jemillerjemiller Posts: 183
    I suppose it's possible that GM might not have taken a V8 into account when laying out the CTS.

    But by the mid '90s you already had the E420/E430 and 540i well established, the GS400 showed up in '98(?), so GM would have had to have had a very narrow view of who the competition was in order to decide against accommodating a V8.
  • jrockb4jrockb4 Posts: 5
    Is the CTS a 540/E-Class competitor (which it is size wise) or a 3 series/C-Class competitor (which it is price wise). If your answer is the first, then you would expect a V-8. If your answer is the second, then only the Audi S4 offers a V8. Place your vote and comments on which one it is. Did you shop for price? Or did you shop for size? Does the CTS-V go against the M5 or the M-3?
  • wwhite2wwhite2 Posts: 535
    I dont think the CTS-V will go against the 75K !! M5 or even the 60K !! SMG equipped M3. Price means something it allows the bean counters to allow more to be spent on the car . So, Gm will do what it does best ...... super performance for a great price . the only problem is we can immediately see the shortcomings because of the $$$$$ and we will wonder why they do that sometimes not thinking that the higher price is nice but it locks many of us out of the market . I can already hear the complaints about the interior and those wondering what is wrong with GM. What I like is I can afford the CTS and I think I will be able to do the trade+$$$$$ stretch to the CTS-V without just having to read about it in the magazines .
  • cjs2002cjs2002 Posts: 341
    with this new V series for the CTS, would I still be able to get the base one, with out the V8 or what ... at a reasonably same price.... I hope so... I don't need the V8 and I love this one just fine.... I'm just trying to get everything worked out befor any changes are made.... if ya'll know anything please let me know....
  • mcgreenxmcgreenx Posts: 179
    If you find out how to sync the clocks, please let us know. My dealer claims Cadillac says it's not possible. I don't believe that, but think Caddy doesn't want to assume the expense.

    I'm still p/o's that Caddy isn't correcting the life-threatening "slow air bags," on pre-Oct. 2002 CTS's.
  • oldsman01oldsman01 Posts: 1,203
    There is a very attractive woman(probably upper 20s or low 30s) that I see driving a Diamond White CTS(with the sport package wheels) in my area alot. Wish I knew who she was and if she was single:) Seriously, the typical CTS driver that I'm seeing is not the same type person you see driving a Deville or even a Seville. Funny though, generally the youngest Cadillac drivers I see are driving Escalades.
  • carnaughtcarnaught 'zonaPosts: 2,327
    The girl you see driving the CTS is driving her daddy's car....or grandpa's (if it has a phaeton roof and Vogues).....LOL
  • wwhite2wwhite2 Posts: 535
    At 44 I am the youngest CTS driver I have SEEN so far .I have seen lots of grey hair but no coach roofs yets .LOL
  • oldsman01oldsman01 Posts: 1,203
    Haven't seen a CTS with one yet(hopefully I never will) but I saw an otherwise gorgeous Diamond White STS with a camel color roof today. What a waste! It made me cringe as if I had just seen the car smashed up in an accident. I just don't get it. On some of the older Caddies which had a more formal roof line, the tops don't look as bad(still not my cup of tea) but why in the world would anyone want one on a current Cadillac? Even my dad who is almost 60 thinks they are hideous looking.
  • (Sorry about the last blank posting. I just discovered that the Tab key can cause a message to be posted whether you are ready or not.)

    This discussion of the age of CTS owners/drivers is a little amusing. I was almost 61 when I bought mine. When I'm driving it, I feel much closer to 21 again.

    The discussions about young women driving CTSs concern me a little. The last thing I need is for my wife to see Internet postings reporting sightings of 20 year old girls driving or riding in a black CTS in Colorado Springs. Please be discrete about reporting such sightings. (Honest Honey, she is the Cadillac service technician and she was just testing the car for me. How's that sound, guys? Think anyone will believe me?) :>)
  • wwhite2wwhite2 Posts: 535
    I haven't worried about the dreaded non matching clock catastrophe ( thats what we get from them using two clocks) . Well I finally got around to reseting to daylight savings time and my clock that was a minute or two off is now 4 minutes off ?? go figure

    For the poll 44 Male
  • b4zb4z Posts: 3,372
    You can delete post #2869 at anytime. There is no time limit like there is when you want to edit one.
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