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Comments
Maybe I should try the same thing and see if my reception improves.
Too bad you're not local, I'd give you one of the few harnesses I went through from Scosche to work with. Good luck!!!
By the way...in the wiring schematic, which wire in the factory harness is shown to be the one for the antenna???
I just spent the last hour and a half reviewing the shop manual off the hyundai sight.
I now can not find any info on the voltage. They have changed the format since the last time I looked at this sight. The only reference to voltage was for the XM radio antenna converter which is 5vdc. It is now my guess that the voltage is 12vdc for the window antenna amp. The only sure way to determine the voltage is to measure it....................
Why can't life be simple :=)
At any rate, if you use the wires on the aftermarket radio that are tagged for a power antenna, you shouldn't have any problems as both the lead for the power antenna and the amp turn on are both low voltage wires. Both components have a wired power wire to them, they just need a touch of juice to activate. So basically...the head unit would most likely seem to have a built in regulator to step the juice down from 12 V to something lower. You think????
As far as the grounding issue, you can try it...I did and there was no change.
For me I still wanted a wider sound stage and greater clarity in the highs. I installed a pair of infinity reference 1021t' tweeters this weekend and finally got very close to the sound that I wanted. The sound stage is as wide as the interior cabin now, and the center channel no longer dominates with it's fairly dull sound. I intended to replace the factory tweeters which are jbl (infinity owned) units, but wound up mountind the new 1021t's to the door sail in addition to the stock units in the door panels With the kappa's in the doors, thats alot of tweets for sure but certainly not overbearing.
I went with the 1021t's because they were silk domes and not metal domes like the kappa's which I thought would be somewhat harsh in such a prominent position up front. Frankly if you're thinking of doing this, the reference 1021t's are good but not overly bright, so if you want bright try thr kappa's.
The 2nd set of 62.7i's will be put in the rear doors next weekend. After that, maybe an upgrade for the center dash speaker, although I'm not to sure of the accessability of that unit. Those of you who have added amps and larger subs, and swapped out head units probably have far greater sounding systems. At the end of the day, the Infinity Premium sound system in the 06 - 07 models has it's limitations, but can be modified relatively cheaply for big sound gains.
Personally...I would have removed the factory tweeters (or just disconnected them) and placed the aftermarket ones in the location you chose. After all...being higher up is a better location as it's closer to the level of your ears.
The Reference tweeters are indeed, a more natural sounding tweeter as compared to the Kappa.
I think you'll also hear a difference when you change out the speakers in the rear door as well. However, it's not that big a deal really as those provide rear fill sound more than anything. When you listen to a song, close your eyes...the music SHOULD sound like it wraps around you, but the voice(s) from the singer(s) should sound like they are in front of you. If you fade the music to the front...you'll notice the rear speakers drop out. When you fade it back to the "0" setting, you'll hear the rear speakers come back in, but they are hardly dominating...just providing rear fill.
The factory sub...it's not great and it's not terrible. It's pretty decent and actually more than decent depending on how you listen to your music. If you like a lot of bass heavy music, you'll feel that the sub is deficient when it comes to handling really low frequencies. If you like more jazz, county or vocal heavy music, the factory system can sound pretty amazing (for a factory system). However, you are correct...with very little money, the sound quality can be upgraded and the changes can be HUGE.
The amp is only kicking out 45 watts to all the speakers it's driving (double for the sub since it's a dual voice coil sub). However, when you start changing loads (impedence) at the amp, you change how the amp works. If you create an unstable load, over time...the amp could eventually burn out. Not saying it will happen, but the possibility is there. On the flip side, if it's wired in such a way that the load on the amp is truly stable (4 ohms being optimum) then you don't have to worry.
What I would do is play around with it. Unhook the harness from the factory tweeter and insert bared ends of the wire leads for the Reference tweets and see how it sounds. I'm not saying it can't be done or that it won't work. The world of electronics can be funny sometimes. If you're not the type that cranks your music up...then you may never experience any problems with the set up the way you have it now. But...if you do crank it up from time to time...you could end up frying a speaker/tweeter or burn out channels on your amp. If you burn out the amp...you're creating a whole new mess to deal with.
I had a 4x6" JBL speaker laying around from a previous install I had done and I wanted to see if the sound quality would improve by putting in place of the factory one. I ran a short length of speaker wire and pushed bared ends into the speaker wire harness and wrapped the other end around the corresponding terminals on the speaker and dropped it in place. Turning on the sound system greeted me with even more clarity in the music as there was now a much more efficient speaker in place.
If you have already replaced the door speakers with some aftermarket speakers, do yourself a favor and your system some justice and replace the center channel speaker. The 4x6" speaker I used was just for testing, I'm planning on going with the Infinity Kappa 42.9I. The reason for this choice is the speaker is has a 2 ohm impedence like the factory one it'll replace. Another nice feature is the tweeter can be twisted one way or the other to change it's output by +/- 3 dB (which could help with those that think the center channel is way to domineering).
Looking at the speakers, you can simply break off two of the tabs and use the other two to secure it in place after you've connected your wires. Pop the grille back in place and you're good to go. If you're wondering which wire to connect to which terminal...from what I recall, there was a red wire and a dark wire...the red wire is positive (making the other negative). However, if you want to make sure...turn the factory speaker upside down (magnet up) and make a note of which wire is going to which terminal, then when connecting the aftermarket speaker, turn it upside down and connect the wires accordingly.
Happy listening!!! :shades:
above the speaker. Is there enough room so the grill will snap on ???
Also is there room below so the magnet will clear ???
These speaker are only available in pairs so I guess you will end up with a spare
Actually my friend, the 1 7/8" space is how much space you really need if you mount the speaker from the top. In other words, dropping it into a speaker location, the magnet extends down 1 7/8". There is PLENTY of room under the dash for the magnet of any aftermarket 4" speaker you put in there, that's hardly an issue in this case.
The speaker sits down in a cavity a little bit. The JBL 4x6 speaker would have fit fine, but the frame of the speaker got in the way of the grille going all the way down. The edge of the grille towards you was up maybe an 1/8".
The other thing I did was shave off the ring that's on the underside of the grille, if you have a rotary tool with a cut-off wheel, it'll make short work of it. If not a sharp knife and a steady hand will work too.
Yeah...I was thinking that very same thing, unless I come across and Azera owner that wants to upgrade then we can go half or I'll hold onto the spare and if someone wants it, they can buy it from me.
I suggest looking on Ebay for a good price if you go with the Infinity Kappa. The JBL GTO is about $50/pr. at Sonic Electronix, but the JBL Power and Infinty Kappas are above $80/pr. On Ebay, you might be able to find a really good price for them though.
Another note: If you feel the center channel is dominating the front sound stage, then you may opt to go for any 4" speaker that has a 4 ohm impedance as it won't sound as loud as compared to putting in a speaker with a 2 ohm impedance.
Crutchfield does carry last years model (Kappa 42.7i). there won't be any difference in the performance, but they are selling it for $70/pr + s&h.
The JBL P462 (Power Series) are on Ebay for $66/pr. +s&h.
The JBL GTO427's are on Ebay for $40/pr. + s&h. On Crutchfield, they sell for $100/pr.
I took that JBL GTO6427 4x6" speaker I had pulled from a car I did an install on recently. It was a pair, but one of them had a surround coming apart from the frame. No need to waste a freebie, right? I do think I'll be upgrading to the Infinity Kappa 42.9i at a later date because I like the adjustable tweeter. But the JBL will do nicely for now.
Well...I pulled the grille up and really took a look at the mounting area. To mount the 4x6" speaker, it would require me to cut out the mounting brackets for the OEM speaker. Basically...one I start, there's no turning back. With rotary tool in hand, I cut out around each bracket, marked holes using the speaker as my guide and drilled holes (very sturdy plastic in the dash). If you go with a 4" speaker, then you won't have to do any cutting and you shouldn't have to do any drilling, just mount it as the OEM speaker was mounted.
I clipped the wire harness from the OEM speaker (which is nothing more than a paper cone mid-driver...
I used some butt connectors to add a 10" piece of speaker wire to make connecting the new speaker a breeze. Slid the new speaker into place and installed the screws with no problem...
As you see, the speaker fits in there with no problem, but the key was...will the grille go back on with no problem? The answer..yes, it looks like it never was taken out, but the sound...OMG, so much cleaner, clearer and much crisper detail. I think having a two-way speaker in the center position makes a world of difference because now you have them across the entire front sound stage (high notes are not limited to only left and right).
If you want improved sound, I highly recommend this swap out (if you do the door speakers as well).
My next move will be to replace the tweeters; which, as per Harman-Kardon's OEM department, are 4 ohm tweeters. So keep that in mind if you should decide you want to upgrade your tweeters.
If that isn't going to be feasible, does anyone have any recommendations for install kits and new head units that fit the 07 azera limited?
Thanks in advance!!
What exactly do you expect of your new head unit? Pioneer has a slick new unit (without the tape player), they also have a new 6-disc in dash unit as well.
My question to you would be...how much are you willing to spend??? If you're truly happy with the factory 6-disc changer, I can let you have mine for $50 + s&h. It's been sitting in the box my aftermarket unit came in for the last 2 years. Only problem is...I don't know if it uses the same wiring harness as the base sound system you seem to have.
There's plenty of options out there. What color is your dash, tan, black or gray?
This is some stuff I've done with my system...
Car Audio Upgrades Photo Album
Kenwood DPX-302
Clarion DUZ385SAT
A lil more money, more features...
Kenwood DPX-502
JVC KW-XG700
Pioneer FH-P8000BT
If music rip capability catches your fancy...
Clarion DFX675MC
All are nice units capable of giving you all the features you could want.
After all the replys and info you've shared, I'd be honored to do this for you. I'll send a private email with my contact info to ya.
I replied to your email and again...thank you very much for the thought, but I am unable to utilize a 4" speaker anymore. The reason...I did an install for someone recently and he had a pair of JBL GTO Series 4x6" speakers in his dash that I replaced with some Infinity Reference 4x6" plate speakers (separate woofer and tweeter). One of the JBL speakers had the surround coming apart from the frame, but the other was was just fine. So...I decided to see if it would work in my dash since it was a 2 ohm speaker.
After about 5 minutes with my rotary tool, I cut out the brackets that hold the 4" speaker in, drilled new holes for the 4x6" speaker and...VOILA!!!
Here is how it looks without the grille in place...
Here's a pic of the factory speaker...
At the same time, I would really consider dealing with you for your 6 cd factory unit. Let me think on that for a little bit.
As you see...I too have the tan dash and to me...a black radio just wouldn't look right, thus...I ended up with the Pioneer unit you see in the pics. If I were to go with anything else, it would have to be a double din unit with a screen.
There's a few units with screens that are reasonably priced, but no sure how you feel about brand name...
Boss Audio BV9055
XO Vision XOD1737
TKO Audio BH-626DD
Dual (by Panasonic) XDVD8265
Power Acoustik PTID-7350NBT
Jensen VM9022
Panasonic CQ-VW100U
Now the key to any of these will be how it opens up. If the face opens by arms sliding out at the bottom causing the face to slide down to reveal the CD/DVD slot...it can work. Like the Panasonic model...
If the face opens by flipping down, you may run into some problems.
however for me it's not worth the trouble as far as I'm concerned. I realy do beleive that if anyone can hear an improvement.... it's the placebo effect or under 40 years of age :=)
Oh another hint
To remove the grill and to protect the dash from any damage I used a 1½" putty knife. I took a 3" putty knife and placed it under the smaller knife that way when you pry the grill off all the pressure is on the larger putty knife and won't dent the
dash. best to start on the right side of the grill....... take your time this grill did not want to come off easily
Unfortunarely for me the box arrived from my ebay seller today. I just emailed him and said I didn't open the box, because it's so light there's nothing inside. This ought to be an interesting deal! I'm a 100% feedback ebayer, so if the venorr gives me grief, I'm sure paypal or UPS will work with me. Either way, I was hoping to have them by this past Friday to install 1 of them over the Labor Day weekend. It might be a little longer now...
FWIW I replaced the door speakers with Kappa's and added 2 front tweeters as well. The door speakers in front make a big difference, and the tweeters (Infinity Reference) really widen the soundstage. 2006 with infinity premium sound system.
Thanks again!
As far as the grille, there's a ring that needs to be removed. A rotary tool or sharp knife and steady hand will make quick work of it.
Concerning no improvement in sound quality...I really find that hard to believe considering the component being replaced. Were talking about a paper, single cone speaker being replaced with a two way speaker made of much better materials and much more efficient with the power being supplied to it. I can't tell you what you're supposed to hear as we all hear differently, but I'm quite surprised to read that you didn't notice any improvement in sound quality. Another thing would be if you ever listened to the music loud and hear a song that really made the speakers work and hear the distortion with the OEM speaker, play that same song at the same levels with the new speaker and you'll find that it doesn't distort and won't distort as easily as the OEM speakers.
Another thing could be if you are only replacing the center speaker, then you may not notice a difference because you're only changing one speaker out of 5 (excluding tweeters and sub). A more dramatic improvement in sound would be replacing the door speakers.
The grille removal, yes...it does require a firm, but gentle hand. The dash is very pliable and will regain it's shape when you're done. Just don't use a jagged, dirty screw driver or putty knife and you'll be okay.
Again, I apologize for my oversight, but as you can see...with a tiny bit of effort...it can still work.
Hope to hear you were able to get the speakers and complete your install.
Mike
The ebay seller called me yesterday and informed my that I'm the 3rd complaint he's had in 10 days regarding an empty box being received. He's opened an investigation with UPS and forwarded me the link to the case. He has a receipt for my package at 5lbs, as well as for the others, so it appears as though someone at his local UPS may be out of a job soon. Like you, I've enjoyed ebay and have never had any issues.
The additional tips on mounting and grill removal are most appreciated!
Best,
Warren
I'm sorry to hear that this will delay your project. That really sucks man! I'm glad to hear they are on top of it as they should be. Good luck to an expeditious resolution.
No problem, just trying to make sure I post everything I know and have encountered to make it a little easier for the the next person.
Mike
There is the diagram with a description:
So far I have always believed that the tweeters (4 ohm) have dedicated channels from the amp but turns out that they are in a parralel connection with the door drivers (2 ohm) which gives an overall load of 1.33 ohm which cannot be true. I wonder if indeed they are connected in series making 6 ohm altogether?! Any ideas?
The tweeters are NOT wired in parallel with the lower door speakers. The tweeters have a dedicated channel on the amp.
Breakdown of the 7-channel amp...
Channel 1 - Center channel (2 ohm)
Channel 2 - Tweeters wired in parallel (2 ohm combined load)
Channel 3 - Right front mid-driver (2 ohm)
Channel 4 - Left front mid-driver (2 ohm)
Channel 5 - Right rear coaxial (2 ohm)
Channel 6 - Left rear coaxial (2 ohm)
Channel 7 - Dual 4 ohm voice coil subwoofer (most likely wired in parallel to create a 2 ohm load at the amp.
All speakers are channels are driven with 45 watts rms of power, the subwoofer gets a combined 90 watts.
Don't know where you got your info, but mine is coming straight from the Infinity OEM department that created the system.
I say this because I have the beige interior and my grille cloth also has a few scuff marks on them. I was actually thinking about removing it altogether and replacing it with the Infinity Kappa grilles that came with the speakers I installed, but...It would require a lot of fiberglassing to make it happen and I just don't have the time.
I'm not saying it can't be done, it's more a matter of are you sure you want to go through everything it'll take to get it done.
Good luck!!!
A couple of things to try...
Mr. Clean Magic Eraser...does wonders on cleaning the dash and leather surfaces, could work on the grille cloth as well. If you use them on your leather, make sure you apply a leather conditioner afterwards.
When you use the Resolve or Shout, use a soft bristled toothbrush to scrub the material.
Good luck with it.
where:
8-16 Driver Speaker
7-15 Passenger Speaker
6-14 Center Speaker
5-13 Left Rear Speaker
This information is entirely based on the schematics from hmaservice.com. Yesterday I finally got some time to fiddle around and disconnected the 8-16 wires just to find out that both Driver door speaker and tweeter were then muted. Obviously this set of component speakers are sharing one and the same OUT channel from the infinity amp but what's more interesting is that I measured 2.8ohms impedance at the very same wires which theoretically cannot be matched to whatever combination of 2ohm door speaker with a 4ohm tweeter.
I also replaced the center speaker with a 4" coaxial Hertz ECX http://www.hertzaudiovideo.com/default_en.htm in order to add some highs to the front stage, but the installation was not as easy as I expected. The dashboard hole was too wide to hold the new speaker and I had to cut open the plastic grille (remove the plastic grids) and screw it underneath ensuring that the front of the speaker is air tight to the rear sound waves.
Allmet33, I noticed that you have removed the plastic ring aroung the OEM door speakers mounted with rivets - please advise how can I remove the rivets and keep the rings in one peace, in case I want to use them for the installation of the aftermarket coaxials (JBL GTO as you have recommended)? Any particular reason to remove the rings completely?
Not sure exactly how you went about figuring things out. Personally, I contacted the good folks at Infinity's OEM department and they shared everything with me.
The tweeter and front lower driver do not share a channel on the amp...the tweeters actually are on one channel, thus...two 4 ohm speakers wired in parallel on that channel provide a 2 ohm impedence. The rest of the speakers in the entire set up are 2 ohm speakers, except for the subwoofer, which has dual 4 ohm voice coils. Again, wired in parallel...making for a 2 ohm load at the amp.
Don't know why you had problems replacing the center channel speaker. The Infinity Kappa fits in there with the only problem being the large magnet on the back bumping into the ducting under the dash, but can be offset slightly to work. The original speaker in that location is a 4" speaker. :confuse:
Why did you cut open the plastic grille to install the center channel??? The grille pops off with only minor effort. The only thing I had to remove was the plastic from the underside of the grille that extends down to meet the oem speaker.
What I did to remove the plastic ring that's riveted in...use a drill bit that's a little larger than the hole you see in the head of the rivet and simply drill it out. Once you've drilled all the rivets out...the ring comes off with ease. Removal of the rings is necessary because the speakers are actually built into the rings. The aftermarket speakers you get should have an adapter ring to fit 6.75" openings. I know the Kappas have that, I'm pretty sure the GTO's will as well.
"The size of the current center channel is 10cm. While you can use the 4x6 or 5.25 mid-woofers (2 ohm) some of the advantages you might hope to get will be negated by the center channel equalization. There is a 183 Hz high pass and a 7800 Hz low pass filter applied to the 10cm center. Both of your choices will operate down to approximately 80 Hz and out to 16 kHz. You would be throwing a lot of performance away. The Reference 1021T will work in this application provided the recommended capacitor is used."
Personally, I feel this would keep the sound the way it is with the voice being dominant in the center speaker, but the music not spreading across the front sound stage. I can tell you, since replacing my center channel with the JBL 4x6" speaker...I've noticed that the front soundstage is much more balanced with music seeming to fill the entire front stage, but the voices are still centered as they should be.
As you see, the information also says there would be a loss of performance. Not quite sure what was meant by that because I have not noticed a drop in performance at all. If anything, there's been an increase in listening enjoyment. To me, that's what performance is measured by in the end.
Just sharing all I can with everyone, that's all.
The front imaging became more clear and transparent after the replacement of the center speaker previously characterized as dull. What was meant by loss of performance could be that using a wide range unit for a replacement speaker is irrelevant in this case due to the relatively limited frequency spectrum. Thanks for the shared information, the more we know - the better we utilize the potential of the equipment. I think it makes sense for a central speaker to have primarily vocal frequencies as otherwise the stereo effect will be lost somehow.
If the sound system were a true surround system, I would agree with it making sense for the sound to be focused on the vocal frequency range. However, it's a music system and that part was ignored. When you're at a concert, if you close your eyes...music fills the entire front stage in front of you...from left to right with no gaps. When you hear the singer's voice, it is centralized (for the most part). This is what the OEM set-up lacks with how they set up the frequency cut offs. With the aftermarket speaker in place, it now allows for a greater frequency range to come through to include the musical along with the vocal, so the sound stage is more complete all the way across, but still centralizing the vocals.
The one thing they did get right is the rear speakers are not dominant at all. You really don't know they are playing unless a sound is designed to come from the rear or is you fade them out, then you miss it. I just wish they have paid more attention to the subwoofer and put one in that could handle the lower frequencies a lot better. It's really good down to about 80 Hz, but below that...it really struggles. Thus, that is why I removed it from my set-up. Any bass below 80 Hz with the music turned up caused the sub to distort like crazy and sound awful.
Here is a pictue with the cover off:
Question ....
If the OEM center speaker has a high and low cutoff from the amp how can replacing an upgrade speaker improve the sound.??? I replaced the OEM center speaker with the upgrade Inf. co-ax and did not notice ANY improvement in the sound stage. My Son also said he heard no difference between the OEM and the upgrade speaker ....... Now I know why
If your using the OEM amp and IT HAS BUILT IN CUT OFF and can hear the difference then it's called Psycho Acoustics ( If you believe it will sound better it will) That's why many audio company's put all kinds of Bling on their products
to make it more Hi Tec looking
The cut off only controls the frequencies that will reach (or not) the speaker, that's it nothing more.
What type of speaker did your son replace the center channel with? If it was a 4 ohm speaker, there's your answer. You hindered the performance of the amp because that would cut in half the power going to the speaker itself. If he used a 2 ohm speaker such as a JBL or Infinity product, him not hearing a difference means he may just not have an ear for it.
Then again, I can't say simply changing out the center channel will make that much of a difference if you don't take care of the door speakers as well. All of my speakers up front have been changed, except for the OEM tweeters. The change in sounds is significant, much clearer, definitely cleaner and I can play my music louder without worrying about distortion.
I will say this much, the components used are good quality, but they are not the top notch stuff audiophiles would expect in a high end system. You could definitely find better by going aftermarket, but that would require a lot of work ripping out the old and running new wire and such.
Personally, I feel the OEM amp is just fine for running the speakers so I kept it in use. Plus, I didn't want to buy a 5.1 channel amp just to keep the function of the center channel. So...option #2 is to go with quality speakers and beef up the bass with an aftermarket sub set up which is exactly what I did and I am completely satisified with the results.
I guarantee if you were to hear my system compared to an OEM system you'll hear a big difference in the quality of sound (even if I cut the subs off). Granted, the speakers won't play as low as the OEM sub, but the overall sound is cleaner and livlier in performance. When I cut the subs on...the OEM system doesn't stand a chance because the OEM sub cannot play as low as my aftermarket subs, nor can it handle high volumes without distorting easily and sounding like crap.
I used a diagnostic CD test disc that sweep several frequencies plus tests for 5.1 performance. Because of the narrow frequency range of the center speaker it does warrant the expense of replacing that speaker .... however it does made sense to replace the door speakers