Are He & She that wrote this supposed review , supposed to be real auto journalists???? We are approaching 1000 miles on our Dark Cherry GXP , & are still in awe of the power, comfort & price relationship, compared to other cars... Wife & i feel Pontiac has a real winner here !!! Gas mileage has stayed between 18-20, which includes wife driving 25 miles to work then back , all around town avg driving & even a couple times in & out of parking garages.. Steering torque steer; most cars have it to so some degree, we have not seen anything that scares or even bothers us in this area... Of course we were'nt lighting the tires up in the subdivision or at every stop sign either. Only thing i'm displeased with is GM shoving the costs of On-Star off on the consumers trying to build up a fan base for their Product... Your still paying for this even if they say it's included & shoving Sattelite radio down everyone's throat with extra costs... We still LOVE our Gran Prix GXP though... Just wish they'd bring back the COUPE !!!! The '02 coupe was a fine look'n automobile !!! :P
That review shouldnt have been printed. They are morons. They barely talked about the features of the car. They also saw plenty of other cars in the price range are better, but dont mention any of them.
I can't be sure, but this "review" struck me as oddly familiar. I recall reading a "He said, She said" article probably a year or two ago that I recall being almost the same with maybe a couple of minor revisions... maybe they were reviewing the Comp G or something - but they don't really hit me as being real car people. just my opinion Dark Cherry GXP and Loving it - only have about 100 miles (of mine) on it as I don't want to drive it to work until I can find a safe place to park. I'm skiddish of dings.
Its not a suprise these people gave it a bad review. These people (freep.com) are not serious journalists. They are very biased in there political (pro Dems) and auto (pro foreign) sections.
This review should not be a surprise to you, in the heat of the 2004 election season, this "web site" posted an article showing how the auto market 'generally does better under democratic presidents'.
I think Edmunds are a bit more serious in there reporting, GTO aside.
I noticed that in the interview they also forgot to mention that the GXP has a Nav system available, and that with all the discounts you get, no car could touch it in value.
Well, I have now had my GXP for three weeks and I am thoroughly enjoying it. I am not seeing any of the 'problems' those reviewers saw with their GXP and this is one awesome vehicle. However, there is one annoying little feature of the car that I am hoping will be changed with newer firmware. I made the mistake of driving my tank down to a range of ~50 miles. In my old car, (1998 Regal GS) I would see my range, and make a note of how far I could go before I ran completely out of gas. At some point, (around 40 miles) the readout switches to "Low" and you just have to remember what your extrapolated odometer will read before you run out of gas. Not a big deal - (ie I'm at 310 miles for this tank, and I can go another 42, so I will run out of gas at about 352 miles) However, on the GXP, once you get below a range of about 50 miles, the Driver Information Center switches to a "Low Fuel" or something like that and you can't switch over to see your odometer, or anything else in the DIC. It locks out all of the buttons and only displays the low fuel warning. If I knew I could go another 45 miles, but then it stops showing me my odometer, I have no way of knowing how far I have gone, or how far I can go. I know it isn't good to let your gas tank run down, but it happens, especially since I like to shop for the best gas prices. To me, this is a bug, not a feature. I am hoping that maybe the will realize the error of their ways and issue new firmware to change this feature. Any chance of that happening? Not having a mechanical odometer, or even just a separate readout for it separate from the DIC is a design flaw - one that is avoidable most of the time, but everybody is going to run into it at one time or another and you will see what I mean.
I've also driven until the gas gauge needle was on the line for "E" and then filled up to about 17.1 gallons. So it looks like GM has atleast made the gas gauge indicate the fuel level correctly.
“Not having a mechanical odometer, or even just a separate readout for it separate from the DIC is a design flaw”
I have run into the “LOW FUEL” warning display twice – in each of my first 2 tanks. I remember not being able to access the ‘MILES TO EMPTY” display (until a shutdown / restart), but I am pretty certain that I could access the main and trip 1 / 2 odometer displays with no problem . . .
I will check when I approach 50 to go again . .
- Ray Not willing to risk pushing much beyond 25 (1 gal. + / -) to go . .
Where are you guys buying these GXPs?? I am located in New York and NONE of the dealers in the area have them yet. Currently I drive a heavily moded 99 GTP with over 120K and I'm just itching to test drive the 2006.
“I am located in New York and NONE of the dealers in the area have them yet.”
I drove approx. 240 miles (round trip) to test drive the first GXP delivered to a dealer anywhere near Atlanta. And I drove close to the same distance to obtain what I believed to be a “fair deal”.
Depending where in New York you are, the supply may be concentrated elsewhere. The link below shows (on GMBuypower) over 50 within 250 miles of Queens, NY.
I have noticed that from a ‘peak’ of about 27 or 28 within 250 miles of Atlanta, the supply now stands at 11. I do NOT expect any supply issues once 2006 production is ramped up.
I see that the URL I posted yesterday has produced a rather ugly effect on the page display. Since I cannot edit the post to delete the URL, can you please? Thanks, - Ray Sorry . . .
Not your fault and I have not deleted it because I reported it to the engineers when I saw it yesterday. It should have wrapped, not posted in one unbroken string like that. When they've looked at it, I'll take care of it.
Meanwhile clicking on the post number underneath it will display the rest of the page normally.
I have no complaints, ecept that on all the press releases, it said the car comes with embroidered mats. well mine didn't and GM corp says that they don't know anything about it...Did yours have the mats?
My local dealer ordered 2, a silver and a black one. I got the silver one the day it arrived and the black one sold a few days later. They are probably kicking themselves for not ordering more than 2. They have 3 GTO's that have been on their lot since winter, can't move them. My GXP
If GM/Pontiac actually advertised the GTO maybe they could move them. The 2005 is selling a lot better then the 2004 did.
The Major turn off for me on GXP is in my opinion the same cheap 2004+ GP interior and hard slab of a backseat and front drive and they look too much like the RENTA-CAR GP from a small distance. Highway Gas mileage is supposed to be good with DOD system. I hope that beefed up 4T65E handles the V8, it was nearly maxed out on the GTP V6.
If they made the GXP rear drive and possible 2 door version with better interior I would consider one.
“The Major turn off for me on GXP is in my opinion the same cheap 2004+ GP interior and hard slab of a backseat and front drive and they look too much like the RENTA-CAR GP from a small distance. Highway Gas mileage is supposed to be good with DOD system. I hope that beefed up 4T65E handles the V8, it was nearly maxed out on the GTP V6.
If they made the GXP rear drive”
Coming from a 2003 Lincoln LS, I do not find the interior to scream (to me): “cheap”. Though I expect that it is cheaper to produce than the interior in my LS. Certainly one could argue that it might look better with some wood or chrome or other sorts of accents. And there certainly are acres of dark plastic. Yet my requirements for an acceptable interior do not include such things. I am far, far more interested in the information displays being clear and readable (love the HUD), the switchgear being intuitive to use and the various pieces being put together in a way that results in an uncluttered appearance and no squeaks, rattles or other extraneous noises. (The better to enjoy the sound of the exhaust!) But that’s just me. There are many, many other interiors with different styling – but few (at or near this price point) that also include something like the GXP’s V8 muscle, etc.
Highway gas mileage is something that (at close to 1,200 miles) I have not really been able to verify, as I have not yet had an opportunity to take a real ‘road trip’ – meaning: out of town and away from heavy traffic and utilizing cruise control at 70 – 80 mph.
In the morning, when I fill the gas tank with a warm engine and then drive my normal commute into Mid-Town Atlanta at 60 – 80 mph in moderate traffic . . Fuel mileage according to the DIC: 25 to 27.5 mpg. (DIC so far has proven to consistently display approx. 1 MPG less than actual calculated MPG.)
Based on my VERY limited sample (4 tank fills), I expect that the 27 MPG highway estimate could be achieved in an “open road, light traffic, steady 70+ mph” scenario. And that is what I was hoping for. For such a performance level, for a car with a (relatively speaking) big honkin’ V8, for a car that I drive to enjoy, I am quite satisfied – and will continue to be even more satisfied, if I can achieve 25 or so mpg on long, primarily highway trips! YMMV.
The back seat suits my purposes – a place for 1 or 2 people to ride for a short distance. It is clearly not the best rear seat accommodations one can find in this price class. Not a priority for me at this point.
(The better to enjoy the sound of the exhaust!) But that’s just me. There are many, many other interiors with different styling – but few (at or near this price point) that also include something like the GXP’s V8 muscle, etc.
The GTO is near the GXP price poiint, can be had $31k and offers MORE muscle & better exhaust sound , Rear drive 400hp Corvette V8. And turns in 25 mpg highway with stick. Car insurance isn't much more then GXP, checked. Only negative is 2 door only! Interior and seats are FAR BETTER then GXP, one of GM's best interiors/seats according to Car and Driver.
Sat in both cars, GTO blows the GXP away in interior/seats dept. Reminds me of a BMW/European like. Backseat is far more comfortable then GXP, just a pain to get in and out in a 2 door. Also the GTO is a more refined car to drive in my test drives. Other then Loud muscle car GTO exhaust sound.
As they say, dif strokes for dif folks, they are both good cars in there own ways.
“Compared to the GTO the GXP interior screams cheap. Then again the GTO is one of GM's best seats/interiors, even according to car and driver. As as far as exhaust sound goes, GTO's is better then GXP.
Where can you buy a 400 hp car with nice interior/refinement for only $33k or less, fully loaded? I paid $31k for mine. Car Insurance on GTO not much more then GXP, I checked. GTO turns in 25 highway with manual, not bad!
Too bad we can't get the 4 door version of the GTO "monaro" like in Austrailia!!
But as they say, different strokes for dif. folks. What ever suits you.”
First, agreed, whatever suits.
The GXP / GTO comparison could be an interesting one, but I doubt many people cross shopped them very seriously. I have posted some of my thoughts on this in above posts. I will repeat here only a couple of the ‘show stoppers’ that precluded me from seriously considering the GTO:
1 - No TAPShift or equivalent manumatic mode available for the automatic. 2 – No 4 dr. sedan version. 3 – No factory moonroof available. 4 – GTO automatic requires gas guzzler tax – and achieves much lower (GXP = almost 30% better) EPA highway MPG. 5 – No HUD, no dual zone HVAC, no heated seats available. (And no, for various reasons, the 6 speed manual trans. is not a viable choice for me.)
Equipped as I wanted it, with most every option except the NAV and block heater, my actual transaction price for the GXP was $26,700. Over $4K less than the cost you quote on a GTO.
[[ $4,000 = real money, to me. ]]
And the dynamic refinement of the GXP (particularly having driven a couple of 2004 GTP CompG’s) is perhaps the area where I was most impressed and surprised. Would I have paid another $1,000 for a more refined interior? If it included power seat recline, power telescope (as well as tilt) for the steering wheel, and an upgrade to the dash surfaces, I might have considered such an option. I am happy with GM’s choice to pour what money they had for this niche project into the V8, upgraded trans., Bilsteins, Wheel / Tire upgrade, brake upgrade, etc. And leave the interior as highly functional, but plain.
Not having driven a GTO, I will concede a better looking interior & a better exhaust note. But GXP in both cases meets my requirements. And the GTO (with either trans.) is significantly quicker.
If I wanted a RWD coupe, and I wanted a 6 speed manual, I would likely have driven a GTO.
- Ray Also (likely) considered functional, but plain . . .
I traded in my GTP 2 door Coupe on the GTO. I am used to having decent sized 2 door cars. I would have considered a GXP if they made a 2 door coupe version of it. They didn't so I got the GTO. The only other alternative still out there is the 2 door Monte SS, but it's getting old, cheapish interior and I don't like styling on it.
I never bought the 4 door Grand Prixes because they looked too much like Fleet or rent-cars. Where as the 2 door was only 20% of production and almost never rented, fleet, etc.
The GTO feels like a luxury car ride after having the GTP. My GTP felt like it had no shocks, very rough feel every crack in the road feel. GTO is more dampened, and the GTO handles better.
As I said Interior clearly blows the GP away on the GTO
I cross shopped the GTO and the GXP. I would have bought the GTO if I could have got it got the 26K I got the GXP for. The GTO after incentives was 30k and I would lose the sunroof, heated seats, auto climate, satellite radio, 18 inch wheels, and remote start. 26k for a 300+HP car is a bargain. The FWD, 4 doors and the real trunk with pass through and fold down front seat made the GXP something I could drive daily and year round. I still want a GTO for the performance, but I felt that was all it had going for it.
I looked through the forum for Interior Dash Trim kits and found almost all of the info was several years old. I am seriously wanting to put a trim kit into my new GXP and was wondering if anyone has experience with them. I've researched about a half a dozen websites selling the trim kits and was hoping to get some feedback on particular sources/mfrs; ease of installation; look; etc... I've only put a couple hundred miles on the GXP and loving it. Hope to do a road trip out to the coast tomorrow to see how it feels on some extended driving and what kind of mileage I get. Per the DIC I'm getting ~ 18 mpg mostly around town driving.
Well I finally filled up my first tank. 280 miles on 12.6 gallons. Probably a 40% city/60% road (not much freeway, but country hwys). I calculate 22.2mpg. My DIC had 21.1mpg. I am thoroughly enjoying the GXP. It does not have the body lean/roll through country corners the way my two previous (2000 GTP & 2003 GT) did and the Bridgestone Potenza tires are excellent compared to Goodyears. My experience with the new generation GP is primarily driving rental cars and the engineering upgrades to the GXP are very apparent. The ride is very good - only once over some very rough breaks at a railroad crossing did I have that old hard as bricks sensation. Nothing but good comments and when people hear what I paid, they don't believe it. Only squealed the tires once - somebody in an Infiniti G35 coupe was playing the pass, get in front & slow down game... so about the 3rd time as I went to pull around him, I nailed the accelerator(~35mph) and the wheels broke loose with a screech - sure got his attention... and he didn't jack around again.
I love my new GXP. It's the best car I've owned yet. I'm a loyal GM fan and will always be. Though, I've got 2 problems with my new GP GXP.
1. Excessive Howling noise when driving >45mph. Had all 4 tires road force balanced and the howling still occurs. GM dealer told me it was a characteristic of the car, wheels and tires.
2. There is a constant hissing noise from the speakers when the keys are in the ignition and when you're driving the car. If the radio volume is down or low you can still here it. If take the keys out of the ignition the hissing noise goes away once the dome light goes off. Though, every time you open the car to get in, the dome light comes on and the terrible noise is awaiting me every time I get in my new GXP. The GM dealer told me GM is aware and they are working on a fix.
I've got the same hiss coming from my speakers. I took it to a GM dealer. They said GM is working on a fix and they'll give me a call when they have it. Are you experiencing any abnormal road noise when driving >45mph?
Ray previously posted the following for the RVS operation: From GM: P/N: 12603159 CVN: 0000993D Description: New software to address A/C performance during remote start.
The speaker hiss is addressed by bulletin 03-08-44-015 from Nov. 2003. The link: http://www.gmtechlink.com/images/issues/nov03/TLNov03e.html. I'm sure our new GXP's have the same problem and I will try to get it fixed at the dealer in a couple of weeks.
I have no howling or excess road noise and I even drive with the back seat folded down so I can fit a bike back there. But then again, I used to drive a 97 GP that was lowered and had flowmasters which gave a lot of drone. So now I think it's really quiet. If it's really howling, then you might be missing a piece of plastic that seals the wheel well or something.
I've found that unless you tell the dealer the bulletin number or other GM info, they say they don't know how to fix it and are working on it.
I also have that hissing & was content that it was a normal noise but the other day I was driving with the radio OFF & it drove me nuts, I also hear it with the volume low as well. That noise is so annoying that when I had a sub amp put in (professionally) I had to bring it back because of a feedback problem when that noise would stop after the car was turned off ( approx 15 sec) thank god that was fixed! But still I look outside & drive it & love every minute of it. Has anyone taken a GXP or seen one at the track yet?? I'm curios to see if it runs low 14's?
If anyone is worried about fuel mileage just let the engine break in. The following info is from my DIC:
Miles 1893 Engine Hours 66.5 Avg MPG 23.1 (since fill up) Avg speed 28.3 Oil life 74% trip 201.2 (since fill up)
gas gauge is between 3/4 and 1/2 using Shell V-power
The 23.1 mpg is mostly city mileage, as you can see by the avg. speed. There was some highway miles and some at night without A/C. I am extremely happy with the DoD engine. 23 mpg and 300+ hp is a winner in a car that can do 0 to 60 in 5.9 sec and top out at 155mph.
I started out with 17mpg and it's been going up ever since. Just need to get some miles on it an don't change your oil early. Let the factory oil do the break in.
Thanks for the info on MPG, I'm curious as to where you found the top speed of the GXP, I have yet to see a road test of the vehicle, I have only seen Motor Trend do a comparison of the G35 & Subaru STi for reasons of handling characteristics & therfore have only seen a 6.0 to 60 & 14.3 @ 98.1, no top speed. Also how many miles would you allow before an oil change? i was planning on about 1K, then mobil 1.
The 155mph came form a group from another forum who went to the Bob Bondurant school at Phoenix for a few days of hard running and testing the Grand Prix GXP with some of the Pontiac engineers. They were invited to drive on the track at Phoenix with no limits. Some of the cars were getting 0 to 60 times of mid 5's. There is no speed limiter, drag and engine overheat controls dictate the max speed. The 5.3 has a lot of fail safe modes to prevent any engine damage. So basically you can run flat out as long as the engine dosen't overheat. Maybe someone who saved that article can elaborate as the trip was several months ago.
As far as the oil change, everybody has their own opinions. I like to run the factory fill a while because it has a high silicon content from the factory dirt and machining by products. Anything big gets caught by the filter. This sounds like a bad thing and you would want to drain it soon, but engines need a little time to wear in. The silicon, dirty oil is like a fine machining of your engine parts. That's why they can put a synthetic in from the factory and your engine will still break in fine. I know some people who drained oil early and put in synthetic at 500 mile and had oil consumption and noise issues. These were LS1 Camaro's. Do whatever your comfortable with because no matter what any one recommends someone will tell you otherwise. I am leaving mine in awhile probably until September. I have a Dodge Turbo that still runs fine, uses no oil after 20 years and 200k+ miles. Only problem was blown head gasket, a common problem on the 2.2. It uses dino oil changed 2 times a year since 1986. Drive it to work daily. Still has the original turbo, and it gets used alot as I live in the mountains and the boost comes in handy.
I used to run my cars, including a GTP for the first month on factory oil, then switch to synthetic and I never had a leak or oil consumption problem at all.
LS2 Vette motor, also in GTO, SSR etc dictates Mobil 1 Synthetic ONLY! It comes from the factory filled with Mobil 1. The oil fill cap has the mobil 1 symbol on it.
Miles 1540 Engine Hours 42.3 Avg. MPG 19.5 (since last fill) Range 235 Avg. speed 39.2 (never reset) Oil Life 81% Trip 117.7
Gas gauge = just below three quarters.
I would be absolutely THRILLED with 23 MPG. I doubt I will see that unless / until I am able to take an extended ‘road trip’, at more nearly steady speed (cruise control = on) and much less stop (or slow) & go traffic than I typically deal with.
My Excel spreadsheet shows no significant increase in MPG since new. Throwing out the first fill (Apparently, my delivery dealer filled the tank ‘fuller’ than I typically do, resulting in calculated 19.81 MPG) I see 17.09, 18.70, 19.67 (no weekend driving) and 18.72.
That third fill happened to be the first fill that included no weekend driving, where much of my “running around” (low speeds, near 0 cruise, lots of acceleration – to 45 or so and then brake for stop lights) sort of driving occurs. I happened to be out of town all last weekend. The 19.5 indicated right now will likely drop to well below 19.0 over the weekend. In fact, the 3 miles or so I drove at lunch, after checking these numbers, dropped it from 19.5 to 19.2. And I am NOT standing on the throttle at every opportunity. Just driving ‘briskly’.
My normal driving is primarily commuting, and I am the only driver. There is rarely anyone else in the car (no additional weight). Unless I take a trip out of town, this commute consists of approx. 22 miles from outside the I285 beltline to Mid Town Atlanta early enough that traffic is typically moving pretty well. All but the last 2 miles or so is at 60 to 80 mph. The last 2 are on surface streets. The commute home is a bit slower, as I cannot leave early enough to miss much traffic. I usually drive 3 to 5 miles of surface streets at lunch. And on weekends I again do largely surface street driving, errands, etc. Rarely even on a highway unless I leave town.
Gas mileage is not quite what I had expected, so far. I don’t think it rises to the level of a disappointment, but I had expected that in my normal commute, where I had consistently been 20 – 21+ mpg with my Lincoln LS (heavier, 3.9L V8, 5-speed manumatic, higher rpm at cruise) I am seeing 18.0 to 19.7.
Again, I am not exactly disappointed (5% worse fuel economy will not kill me), yet I expected with a 27 mpg highway EPA estimate (my Lincoln was rated at 24 – and city was the same as the GXP at 18) and a commute that includes a fair amount of 65 – 75 / 80 mph driving, particularly in my early morning inbound trip - would result in slightly better mileage, rather than slightly worse. I have not yet had an opportunity to drive any significant distance outside the Metro Atlanta area, with cruise control set. Nor have I driven it in light traffic, with cruise control set, for any significant freeway distance.
It appears to me that (from observing the Instant MPG Display) DoD requires several very specific circumstances to occur before engaging. Basically a steady speed and little variation in ‘load’. As would typically only occur when utilizing cruise control on a fairly level freeway. The slightest uphill and / or the slightest application of additional throttle appears to instantly disengage DoD (if engaged) and also provoke some degree of TCC unlock. Both / Either drop MPG dramatically. (A topic by itself.) And I have not yet had any opportunity to drive any significant distance under those conditions.
I expect that if all or nearly all of my driving was surface streets, I would likely average only 15 or so.
Possibly, some of the apparent disparity between EPA and ‘actual’ is going to be addressed:
But I am speaking here only of the apparent difference between my previous car (EPA rated worse) and the GXP, in as close to identical driving as one is likely to encounter in the ‘real world’ . . . Seems odd to me that I now attain somewhat lower MPG in my commuting, rather than higher. Since in my (roughly) 17,000 miles per year, at $2.30 / gal. ,the diff. between 20 and 19 mpg only amounts to about $2.00 per week, I think it is merely interesting. And something that I don’t understand. I do hope that when I am able to take a ‘real’ Road Trip, with some steady 70 – 80 mph cruise, it does achieve 25 mpg or so. (16 gal. times 25 = 400 miles, with a reasonable reserve.)
I will certainly post here when I do take a real ‘road trip’.
Still, I am achieving many 'smiles' per gallon . .
I cross shopped GXP and GTO, Rental car looks, avg to below avg build quality and backseat turned me off on GXP. GTO has GM's best interior, seats as said by many and rides nicer then GTP, absorbs bumps then going over them. It's more then just perf. $33k for a 400hp car is quite a bargain!! After that is the base $45k Vette. If GM made a 2 door GXP I may have more seriously cross shopped it, less of a rental car image. Furthermore, Consumer Reports TRASHED the Grand Prix when it was redone for 2004. It is one of their lowest rated sedans. Stiff ride, poor fuel economy, tight-hard backseat. At least they gave GTO, avg marks.
GM's best cars are GTO, Corvette, Cadillacs, many have agreed with that.
Simple Question..Why are you in this forum?? You drive a GTO, NOT a GXP.. I wouldn't (nor would any of us GXP owners) expect you to approve of our cars given the fact that: A) your car looks like a BLOATED Cavalier. GXP's have a huge following in such a short time. C) obviously you dont need a back seat. D) we paid (on average) 4k less for a car with 3X the content (hows your HUD?? Heated Seats? 4way Lumbar? Cross Drilled Rotors? DOD!!!!, 18" Forged wheels??) I could go on but I believe i made my point. In conclusion go talk to the other 3 or 4 people that bought a GTO (Cobalt SS is better looking, isn't that sad??) There will always be a faster,better, "NICER" looking car ( How about the new Mustang, 300 HP, just as fast, 1000X better car than GTO in every way)
Everyone is welcome here, there is no requirement that someone own or even like a vehicle which is under discussion.
What IS a requirement is that comments not turn into a personal confrontation.
Obviously different cars exist in the world because people have different tastes. That doesn't make people wrong and it doesn't make people right - it just shows that people are different. We are all entitled to our opinions just as we are entitled to express those opinions in a civil and respectful manner in these Forums.
When I was at 1500 miles my mileage still did not come up much. In fact I was dissapointed as it was about 19 as well. It seemed like this last tank made the difference. I would like to attribute it to break in. I have turned off the auto climate a little bit more this tank. It's been really hot here so I haven't driving much in the daytime, waiting more for evening. I am trying to think of all the factors that may have contributed to the mileage increase. I know that engines and the whole drivetrain tend to loosen up a bit with time. I am hoping that is what it is and not just a driving habit that changed. Maybe the A/C has a lot more to do with it. I have run it this tank but not as much as before. Above 20mpg would be great. I gave up a GTP and an LS1 Trans Am for this car, and so far I am not dissapointed in it's performance and practicality. I got the best of those 2 cars in one. Great gas mileage would just be a bonus.
There's no reason for GXP owners to bash the GTO. Or vice versa. We're both Pontiac owners! If I needed to replace my Aurora as my "winter car" I would seriously consider a GXP if I could afford it. Probably the best Grand Prix built to date (I've owned 2, a '91 STE (mine) and a 2001 GTP (wife's). I read this forum to keep up on the car... never know when I might end up considering one.
Want to clear up a couple of GTO misconceptions without turning this into a "GTO vs. GXP" debate. I don't feel that these cars compete (RWD coupe versus FWD sedan), as much as the GTO competes with Mustang, G35/Z, low-end BMW, et. al.) and the GXP competes with the Charger, Maxima, et. al.
1) Over 25k GTO's sold in the past year and a half, despite the first 8 months of few cars, $5k-$10k dealer markups, and no incentives. The GTO is a halo, rather than a mass-market car - only 12k of them available per year. They sold so well last month (almost 1500) that there were fewer than 400 available on dealer lots - hence the removal from the GM "Employee Pricing" promotion.
2) Mustang vs. GTO - looks are subjective, Mustang GT's are $29k+ equipped the same as the GTO and that's before the $2k+ ADM on the Mustangs - and the GTO's were available for $30k and change during the employee pricing. The GTO outperforms the Mustang in every category, and the Mustang's interior pales in comparison to the GTO.
Again, I don't want to turn this into any comparison/argument between vehicles from the same manufacturer - just don't want to see unsubstantiated bashing of either car. FYI, one of the guys at GM responsible for the Grand Prix GXP was also the next-gen GTO product manager...
I'm holding off judgment on the EPA estimates until I've put a couple thousand miles on the GXP. I've owned a lot of vehicles and my experience with GM is that they have always met or exceeded the EPA estimates. I've also noticed the break in is a bit different on various engines. I saw better mileage with each tank on my Canyon, but our 2001 Denali didn't show a good increase in mileage until 1500-2000 miles. After that the engine seemed to hit it's stride and I consistently got 17-20 mpg Hwy running 65-70 mph. (EPA 16mpg) I can't say as much for the Volvo, Subaru, Dodge or Toyota.... as for the GTO vs. GXP debate... these cars don't compete, I do think the GTO interior and seats are superior, but the GXP is the GTO my lifestyle (and wife) won't permit! I'm looking at putting a dash trim kit into the GXP to make it a bit more enticing.
Do you have any links to GXP stats (tech info as to performance etc.), I noticed you knew the final drive ratio is 2.93, how did you find that info out? If your able to help, thanks, I just bought one & can not find anything other that that Motor trend article that has limited info (Front Rear All wheel drive test)
Edmunds ‘terms of use’ prohibit me from answering, but now that I have my GXP, I have confirmed the final drive ratio with observation of RPM at various MPH
And the on line order guide (that does mention the different final drive ratio for the GTP / CompG for 2005) makes no mention of a different ratio for the GXP.
No other major automotive magazines have published a test. With all the ‘new stuff’ being released as we approach the traditional Fall season, I am guessing the GXP is not going to be ‘sufficiently new’ to warrant full reviews.
Comments
http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosconsumer/0506/22/G04-223753.htm
With 650+ v. enjoyable miles on mine, I don't even know where to begin a response . . .
- Ray
Enjoying every mile even more . .
"But, Ray it has so much power, how can you control it", said Anita.
Ummmm . .
OK.
- Ray
GXP driver.
Thinking some thoughts that are likely better left as only thoughts (sigh). . .
We are approaching 1000 miles on our Dark Cherry GXP , & are still in awe of the power, comfort & price relationship, compared to other cars... Wife & i feel Pontiac has a real winner here !!!
Gas mileage has stayed between 18-20, which includes wife driving 25 miles to work then back , all around town avg driving & even a couple times in & out of parking garages..
Steering torque steer; most cars have it to so some degree, we have not seen anything that scares or even bothers us in this area... Of course we were'nt lighting the tires up in the subdivision or at every stop sign either.
Only thing i'm displeased with is GM shoving the costs of On-Star off on the consumers trying to build up a fan base for their Product... Your still paying for this even if they say it's included & shoving Sattelite radio down everyone's throat with extra costs...
We still LOVE our Gran Prix GXP though... Just wish they'd bring back the COUPE !!!! The '02 coupe was a fine look'n automobile !!!
:P
just my opinion
Dark Cherry GXP and Loving it - only have about 100 miles (of mine) on it as I don't want to drive it to work until I can find a safe place to park. I'm skiddish of dings.
This review should not be a surprise to you, in the heat of the 2004 election season, this "web site" posted an article showing how the auto market 'generally does better under democratic presidents'.
I think Edmunds are a bit more serious in there reporting, GTO aside.
I noticed that in the interview they also forgot to mention that the GXP has a Nav system available, and that with all the discounts you get, no car could touch it in value.
Devin
No more "empty tank" with four gallons to go...
I have run into the “LOW FUEL” warning display twice – in each of my first 2 tanks. I remember not being able to access the ‘MILES TO EMPTY” display (until a shutdown / restart), but I am pretty certain that I could access the main and trip 1 / 2 odometer displays with no problem . . .
I will check when I approach 50 to go again . .
- Ray
Not willing to risk pushing much beyond 25 (1 gal. + / -) to go . .
I drove approx. 240 miles (round trip) to test drive the first GXP delivered to a dealer anywhere near Atlanta. And I drove close to the same distance to obtain what I believed to be a “fair deal”.
Depending where in New York you are, the supply may be concentrated elsewhere. The link below shows (on GMBuypower) over 50 within 250 miles of Queens, NY.
I have noticed that from a ‘peak’ of about 27 or 28 within 250 miles of Atlanta, the supply now stands at 11. I do NOT expect any supply issues once 2006 production is ramped up.
Good luck. YMMV.
- Ray
Enjoying each mile . .
check it out
P/N: 12603159
CVN: 0000993D
Description: New software to address A/C performance during remote start.
- Ray
hoping to have this addressed at first oil change . .
Since I cannot edit the post to delete the URL, can you please?
Thanks,
- Ray
Sorry . . .
Meanwhile clicking on the post number underneath it will display the rest of the page normally.
The Major turn off for me on GXP is in my opinion the same cheap 2004+ GP interior and hard slab of a backseat and front drive and they look too much like the RENTA-CAR GP from a small distance. Highway Gas mileage is supposed to be good with DOD system. I hope that beefed up 4T65E handles the V8, it was nearly maxed out on the GTP V6.
If they made the GXP rear drive and possible 2 door version with better interior I would consider one.
If they made the GXP rear drive”
Coming from a 2003 Lincoln LS, I do not find the interior to scream (to me): “cheap”. Though I expect that it is cheaper to produce than the interior in my LS. Certainly one could argue that it might look better with some wood or chrome or other sorts of accents. And there certainly are acres of dark plastic. Yet my requirements for an acceptable interior do not include such things. I am far, far more interested in the information displays being clear and readable (love the HUD), the switchgear being intuitive to use and the various pieces being put together in a way that results in an uncluttered appearance and no squeaks, rattles or other extraneous noises. (The better to enjoy the sound of the exhaust!) But that’s just me. There are many, many other interiors with different styling – but few (at or near this price point) that also include something like the GXP’s V8 muscle, etc.
Highway gas mileage is something that (at close to 1,200 miles) I have not really been able to verify, as I have not yet had an opportunity to take a real ‘road trip’ – meaning: out of town and away from heavy traffic and utilizing cruise control at 70 – 80 mph.
In the morning, when I fill the gas tank with a warm engine and then drive my normal commute into Mid-Town Atlanta at 60 – 80 mph in moderate traffic . . Fuel mileage according to the DIC: 25 to 27.5 mpg. (DIC so far has proven to consistently display approx. 1 MPG less than actual calculated MPG.)
Based on my VERY limited sample (4 tank fills), I expect that the 27 MPG highway estimate could be achieved in an “open road, light traffic, steady 70+ mph” scenario. And that is what I was hoping for. For such a performance level, for a car with a (relatively speaking) big honkin’ V8, for a car that I drive to enjoy, I am quite satisfied – and will continue to be even more satisfied, if I can achieve 25 or so mpg on long, primarily highway trips! YMMV.
The back seat suits my purposes – a place for 1 or 2 people to ride for a short distance. It is clearly not the best rear seat accommodations one can find in this price class. Not a priority for me at this point.
- Ray
Happy GXP driver . . .
The GTO is near the GXP price poiint, can be had $31k and offers MORE muscle & better exhaust sound , Rear drive 400hp Corvette V8. And turns in 25 mpg highway with stick. Car insurance isn't much more then GXP, checked. Only negative is 2 door only! Interior and seats are FAR BETTER then GXP, one of GM's best interiors/seats according to Car and Driver.
Sat in both cars, GTO blows the GXP away in interior/seats dept. Reminds me of a BMW/European like. Backseat is far more comfortable then GXP, just a pain to get in and out in a 2 door. Also the GTO is a more refined car to drive in my test drives. Other then Loud muscle car GTO exhaust sound.
As they say, dif strokes for dif folks, they are both good cars in there own ways.
Where can you buy a 400 hp car with nice interior/refinement for only $33k or less, fully loaded? I paid $31k for mine. Car Insurance on GTO not much more then GXP, I checked. GTO turns in 25 highway with manual, not bad!
Too bad we can't get the 4 door version of the GTO "monaro" like in Austrailia!!
But as they say, different strokes for dif. folks. What ever suits you.”
First, agreed, whatever suits.
The GXP / GTO comparison could be an interesting one, but I doubt many people cross shopped them very seriously. I have posted some of my thoughts on this in above posts. I will repeat here only a couple of the ‘show stoppers’ that precluded me from seriously considering the GTO:
1 - No TAPShift or equivalent manumatic mode available for the automatic.
2 – No 4 dr. sedan version.
3 – No factory moonroof available.
4 – GTO automatic requires gas guzzler tax – and achieves much lower (GXP = almost 30% better) EPA highway MPG.
5 – No HUD, no dual zone HVAC, no heated seats available.
(And no, for various reasons, the 6 speed manual trans. is not a viable choice for me.)
Equipped as I wanted it, with most every option except the NAV and block heater, my actual transaction price for the GXP was $26,700. Over $4K less than the cost you quote on a GTO.
[[ $4,000 = real money, to me. ]]
And the dynamic refinement of the GXP (particularly having driven a couple of 2004 GTP CompG’s) is perhaps the area where I was most impressed and surprised. Would I have paid another $1,000 for a more refined interior? If it included power seat recline, power telescope (as well as tilt) for the steering wheel, and an upgrade to the dash surfaces, I might have considered such an option. I am happy with GM’s choice to pour what money they had for this niche project into the V8, upgraded trans., Bilsteins, Wheel / Tire upgrade, brake upgrade, etc. And leave the interior as highly functional, but plain.
Not having driven a GTO, I will concede a better looking interior & a better exhaust note. But GXP in both cases meets my requirements. And the GTO (with either trans.) is significantly quicker.
If I wanted a RWD coupe, and I wanted a 6 speed manual, I would likely have driven a GTO.
- Ray
Also (likely) considered functional, but plain . . .
I never bought the 4 door Grand Prixes because they looked too much like Fleet or rent-cars. Where as the 2 door was only 20% of production and almost never rented, fleet, etc.
The GTO feels like a luxury car ride after having the GTP. My GTP felt like it had no shocks, very rough feel every crack in the road feel. GTO is more dampened, and the GTO handles better.
As I said Interior clearly blows the GP away on the GTO
I've only put a couple hundred miles on the GXP and loving it. Hope to do a road trip out to the coast tomorrow to see how it feels on some extended driving and what kind of mileage I get. Per the DIC I'm getting ~ 18 mpg mostly around town driving.
I am thoroughly enjoying the GXP. It does not have the body lean/roll through country corners the way my two previous (2000 GTP & 2003 GT) did and the Bridgestone Potenza tires are excellent compared to Goodyears. My experience with the new generation GP is primarily driving rental cars and the engineering upgrades to the GXP are very apparent. The ride is very good - only once over some very rough breaks at a railroad crossing did I have that old hard as bricks sensation. Nothing but good comments and when people hear what I paid, they don't believe it.
Only squealed the tires once - somebody in an Infiniti G35 coupe was playing the pass, get in front & slow down game... so about the 3rd time as I went to pull around him, I nailed the accelerator(~35mph) and the wheels broke loose with a screech - sure got his attention... and he didn't jack around again.
1. Excessive Howling noise when driving >45mph. Had all 4 tires road force balanced and the howling still occurs. GM dealer told me it was a characteristic of the car, wheels and tires.
2. There is a constant hissing noise from the speakers when the keys are in the ignition and when you're driving the car. If the radio volume is down or low you can still here it. If take the keys out of the ignition the hissing noise goes away once the dome light goes off. Though, every time you open the car to get in, the dome light comes on and the terrible noise is awaiting me every time I get in my new GXP. The GM dealer told me GM is aware and they are working on a fix.
Anybody else experiencing these problems???
From GM:
P/N: 12603159
CVN: 0000993D
Description: New software to address A/C performance during remote start.
The speaker hiss is addressed by bulletin 03-08-44-015 from Nov. 2003. The link:
http://www.gmtechlink.com/images/issues/nov03/TLNov03e.html. I'm sure our new GXP's have the same problem and I will try to get it fixed at the dealer in a couple of weeks.
I have no howling or excess road noise and I even drive with the back seat folded down so I can fit a bike back there. But then again, I used to drive a 97 GP that was lowered and had flowmasters which gave a lot of drone. So now I think it's really quiet. If it's really howling, then you might be missing a piece of plastic that seals the wheel well or something.
I've found that unless you tell the dealer the bulletin number or other GM info, they say they don't know how to fix it and are working on it.
Miles 1893
Engine Hours 66.5
Avg MPG 23.1 (since fill up)
Avg speed 28.3
Oil life 74%
trip 201.2 (since fill up)
gas gauge is between 3/4 and 1/2 using Shell V-power
The 23.1 mpg is mostly city mileage, as you can see by the avg. speed. There was some highway miles and some at night without A/C. I am extremely happy with the DoD engine. 23 mpg and 300+ hp is a winner in a car that can do 0 to 60 in 5.9 sec and top out at 155mph.
I started out with 17mpg and it's been going up ever since. Just need to get some miles on it an don't change your oil early. Let the factory oil do the break in.
Also how many miles would you allow before an oil change? i was planning on about 1K, then mobil 1.
As far as the oil change, everybody has their own opinions. I like to run the factory fill a while because it has a high silicon content from the factory dirt and machining by products. Anything big gets caught by the filter. This sounds like a bad thing and you would want to drain it soon, but engines need a little time to wear in. The silicon, dirty oil is like a fine machining of your engine parts. That's why they can put a synthetic in from the factory and your engine will still break in fine. I know some people who drained oil early and put in synthetic at 500 mile and had oil consumption and noise issues. These were LS1 Camaro's. Do whatever your comfortable with because no matter what any one recommends someone will tell you otherwise. I am leaving mine in awhile probably until September. I have a Dodge Turbo that still runs fine, uses no oil after 20 years and 200k+ miles. Only problem was blown head gasket, a common problem on the 2.2. It uses dino oil changed 2 times a year since 1986. Drive it to work daily. Still has the original turbo, and it gets used alot as I live in the mountains and the boost comes in handy.
LS2 Vette motor, also in GTO, SSR etc dictates Mobil 1 Synthetic ONLY! It comes from the factory filled with Mobil 1. The oil fill cap has the mobil 1 symbol on it.
In contrast, here are my DIC numbers:
Miles 1540
Engine Hours 42.3
Avg. MPG 19.5 (since last fill)
Range 235
Avg. speed 39.2 (never reset)
Oil Life 81%
Trip 117.7
Gas gauge = just below three quarters.
I would be absolutely THRILLED with 23 MPG. I doubt I will see that unless / until I am able to take an extended ‘road trip’, at more nearly steady speed (cruise control = on) and much less stop (or slow) & go traffic than I typically deal with.
My Excel spreadsheet shows no significant increase in MPG since new. Throwing out the first fill (Apparently, my delivery dealer filled the tank ‘fuller’ than I typically do, resulting in calculated 19.81 MPG) I see 17.09, 18.70, 19.67 (no weekend driving) and 18.72.
That third fill happened to be the first fill that included no weekend driving, where much of my “running around” (low speeds, near 0 cruise, lots of acceleration – to 45 or so and then brake for stop lights) sort of driving occurs. I happened to be out of town all last weekend. The 19.5 indicated right now will likely drop to well below 19.0 over the weekend. In fact, the 3 miles or so I drove at lunch, after checking these numbers, dropped it from 19.5 to 19.2. And I am NOT standing on the throttle at every opportunity. Just driving ‘briskly’.
My normal driving is primarily commuting, and I am the only driver. There is rarely anyone else in the car (no additional weight). Unless I take a trip out of town, this commute consists of approx. 22 miles from outside the I285 beltline to Mid Town Atlanta early enough that traffic is typically moving pretty well. All but the last 2 miles or so is at 60 to 80 mph. The last 2 are on surface streets. The commute home is a bit slower, as I cannot leave early enough to miss much traffic. I usually drive 3 to 5 miles of surface streets at lunch. And on weekends I again do largely surface street driving, errands, etc. Rarely even on a highway unless I leave town.
Gas mileage is not quite what I had expected, so far. I don’t think it rises to the level of a disappointment, but I had expected that in my normal commute, where I had consistently been 20 – 21+ mpg with my Lincoln LS (heavier, 3.9L V8, 5-speed manumatic, higher rpm at cruise) I am seeing 18.0 to 19.7.
Again, I am not exactly disappointed (5% worse fuel economy will not kill me), yet I expected with a 27 mpg highway EPA estimate (my Lincoln was rated at 24 – and city was the same as the GXP at 18) and a commute that includes a fair amount of 65 – 75 / 80 mph driving, particularly in my early morning inbound trip - would result in slightly better mileage, rather than slightly worse. I have not yet had an opportunity to drive any significant distance outside the Metro Atlanta area, with cruise control set. Nor have I driven it in light traffic, with cruise control set, for any significant freeway distance.
It appears to me that (from observing the Instant MPG Display) DoD requires several very specific circumstances to occur before engaging. Basically a steady speed and little variation in ‘load’. As would typically only occur when utilizing cruise control on a fairly level freeway. The slightest uphill and / or the slightest application of additional throttle appears to instantly disengage DoD (if engaged) and also provoke some degree of TCC unlock. Both / Either drop MPG dramatically. (A topic by itself.) And I have not yet had any opportunity to drive any significant distance under those conditions.
I expect that if all or nearly all of my driving was surface streets, I would likely average only 15 or so.
Possibly, some of the apparent disparity between EPA and ‘actual’ is going to be addressed:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/220458_mileage16.html
http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/driving/articles/105503/article.html
Some interesting points made in these articles.
But I am speaking here only of the apparent difference between my previous car (EPA rated worse) and the GXP, in as close to identical driving as one is likely to encounter in the ‘real world’ . . . Seems odd to me that I now attain somewhat lower MPG in my commuting, rather than higher. Since in my (roughly) 17,000 miles per year, at $2.30 / gal. ,the diff. between 20 and 19 mpg only amounts to about $2.00 per week, I think it is merely interesting. And something that I don’t understand. I do hope that when I am able to take a ‘real’ Road Trip, with some steady 70 – 80 mph cruise, it does achieve 25 mpg or so. (16 gal. times 25 = 400 miles, with a reasonable reserve.)
I will certainly post here when I do take a real ‘road trip’.
Still, I am achieving many 'smiles' per gallon . .
- Ray
Just my 0.2 gallons worth . .
GM's best cars are GTO, Corvette, Cadillacs, many have agreed with that.
C) obviously you dont need a back seat.
D) we paid (on average) 4k less for a car with 3X the content (hows your HUD?? Heated Seats? 4way Lumbar? Cross Drilled Rotors? DOD!!!!, 18" Forged wheels??) I could go on but I believe i made my point.
In conclusion go talk to the other 3 or 4 people that bought a GTO (Cobalt SS is better looking, isn't that sad??)
There will always be a faster,better, "NICER" looking car ( How about the new Mustang, 300 HP, just as fast, 1000X better car than GTO in every way)
What IS a requirement is that comments not turn into a personal confrontation.
Obviously different cars exist in the world because people have different tastes. That doesn't make people wrong and it doesn't make people right - it just shows that people are different. We are all entitled to our opinions just as we are entitled to express those opinions in a civil and respectful manner in these Forums.
'kay?
:confuse:
My GXP
Want to clear up a couple of GTO misconceptions without turning this into a "GTO vs. GXP" debate. I don't feel that these cars compete (RWD coupe versus FWD sedan), as much as the GTO competes with Mustang, G35/Z, low-end BMW, et. al.) and the GXP competes with the Charger, Maxima, et. al.
1) Over 25k GTO's sold in the past year and a half, despite the first 8 months of few cars, $5k-$10k dealer markups, and no incentives. The GTO is a halo, rather than a mass-market car - only 12k of them available per year. They sold so well last month (almost 1500) that there were fewer than 400 available on dealer lots - hence the removal from the GM "Employee Pricing" promotion.
2) Mustang vs. GTO - looks are subjective, Mustang GT's are $29k+ equipped the same as the GTO and that's before the $2k+ ADM on the Mustangs - and the GTO's were available for $30k and change during the employee pricing. The GTO outperforms the Mustang in every category, and the Mustang's interior pales in comparison to the GTO.
Again, I don't want to turn this into any comparison/argument between vehicles from the same manufacturer - just don't want to see unsubstantiated bashing of either car. FYI, one of the guys at GM responsible for the Grand Prix GXP was also the next-gen GTO product manager...
Back to reading about this car,
--Robert
I can't say as much for the Volvo, Subaru, Dodge or Toyota....
as for the GTO vs. GXP debate... these cars don't compete, I do think the GTO interior and seats are superior, but the GXP is the GTO my lifestyle (and wife) won't permit! I'm looking at putting a dash trim kit into the GXP to make it a bit more enticing.
Edmunds ‘terms of use’ prohibit me from answering, but now that I have my GXP, I have confirmed the final drive ratio with observation of RPM at various MPH
And the on line order guide (that does mention the different final drive ratio for the GTP / CompG for 2005) makes no mention of a different ratio for the GXP.
No other major automotive magazines have published a test. With all the ‘new stuff’ being released as we approach the traditional Fall season, I am guessing the GXP is not going to be ‘sufficiently new’ to warrant full reviews.
- Ray
Who will post (legal) links when found . .