I recommend seeking out a reputable independent (locally owned) repair shop for all service work, except warranty and recall-related, for which the dealer must be used. Your dealer seems too prone to overcharge for basic service.
Get recommendations from friends, relatives, and co-workers.
When the major service intervals come due (15K miles, 30K miles, etc.), copy everything from the Toyota maintenance manual and give this to your shop. If additional repairs are suggested, ask to see the evidence (need) for the repairs. This is especially true if the car is showing no symptoms of problems.
Both of my local dealers do most of the routine "inspections" suggested in the owner's manual as part of an oil change. Of course, they both recommend stuff that's not in the manual but it's easy enough to say "no thanks" and just get what Toyota recommends.
I started to use Syn. Oil for my 05 camry (4 cyl) few months ago. I have noticed that my gas milages have increased about 30 miles with full tank.
I am using the same gas pump, no change in tire pressure, same toyota oil filters, same air filters or no more highway miles etc. Driving habits are the same as well.
Just wondering if someone also has the same experience. If this is true then Syn. Oil pays for itself.
It is not surprising to see 2-6% increases in fuel efficiency with synthetic oil especially when you are in a cold weather location in the winter. Since your car is still under warranty, It will be impossible to take advantage of the extended oil change interval (10,000 miles easily) of synthetics which makes up for the increased cost of the oil. Syn oil pays for itself partially with the increased mileage, partially with the reduced damage at startup, and partially with the extended oil change interval after warranty expiration. Local Parts stores such as Advance, PepBoys, etc often have high rebates on Sopus (Pennzoil and Quaker State) oils making them almost the same cost as conventional if you DIY. Inexpensive syns, usually from Warren (store brands and Wal-Mart oil, etc) will actually cost more than Sopus w/reb.
"It is not surprising to see 2-6% increases in fuel efficiency with synthetic oil especially when you are in a cold weather location in the winter."
It's also not surprising to see a 2-6% fuel economy improvement when denser summer blend gasoline becomes available in late spring. Alleged fuel economy increases due to synthetic oils are overblown urban myth. Even the oil companies make no such claims - and they would love to.
Shell Oil Petroleum, U.S, a Texas-based division of Royal Dutch Shell. The company's current lube lineup consists of products sold under the "Formula Shell", "Quaker State", and "Pennzoil" brand names in order of ascending quality.
Thanks ray_h1. I currently use Quaker State oil in my Toyota. Should I be using "Pennzoil" instead? Where does the information come from that your 3 oils are in order of ascending quality?
"Where does the information come from that your 3 oils are in order of ascending quality?"
Well, it's a generally held opinion on an oil related forum ("BITOG") I frequent (and make an equal nuisance of myself on). The pricing seems to support the order, too. None of the SOPUS lubes are bad - if you've been satisfied with QS, there's no reason to change unless you're an experimenter. Remember, API/ILSAC performance ratings (currently "SM" and "GF-4") trump brand name, and all commonly available general purpose automobile motor oils carry those ratings. The exceptions are special purpose racing blends and specific European formulas for cars with stylized propeller insignias, three-pointed stars, Teutonic coat-of-arms shields, rearing horses, or cutting bulls depicted on their front ends.
So, what do I use? I'm slowly working my way through 84 quarts of Phillips 66 TropArtic I found at Dollar Tree prior to Katrina.
Please also consider flushing the brake fluid as it is not so much a "mileage" issue but a "moisture absorption over time" issue. Long periods of old brake fluid cal allow internal corrosion to the brake system. Check the air filter as well - it may need replacement. The belts may also be drying out - please check them. Are the tires original? If they are, consider replacing them even if they have reasonable tread due to dry cracking - consider inexpensive but excellent Yoko Avid Tourings for great value. Finally, if the A/C is less than frigid, you might look at a recharge - the do-it-yourself kits work well with this car.
--"if the A/C is less than frigid, you might look at a recharge - the do-it-yourself kits work well with this car."--
Caution is the watchword when adding refrigerant. Most (all?) cars no longer have a sight-glass on the receiver-dryer or liquid line to aid in determining when the system is full by the absence of bubbles during operation. That, combined with the much reduced amounts of refrigerant used in modern systems, means that overfilling to the point of rupturing a hose is a very real possibility. (Ask me how I know... ) If anyone intends to try topping up his car's A/C system as a do-it-yourself project at home, definitely invest in a refill kit that includes a refrigerant manifold with gauges to monitor suction and pressure - they're your only clue when to stop the flow.
Took my 2000 v-6 Camry (Grampa brown) in to local Toyota Dealer for oil/filter change and they advised me to replace the power steering and brake fluids (flush) because they are getting discolored. I politely declined the $130 service each. I can't beleive my used camry with only 43,000 miles could need such a service. Comments??
You can skip the power steering flush, but it IS a good idea to have the brake fluid changed out, especially if it's never been done before. But not for $130, for crying out loud!
These dealers come up with new ways of fleecing us every day!
This should cost no more than about $30-$40 or so -- check with friends, relatives, or co-workers for good independently owned shop.
Here's a good summary (post #8) I bookmarked a while back about why brake fluid should be changed.
)) "...Toyota Dealer ... advised me to replace the power steering and brake fluids (flush) because they are getting discolored..." ((
210delray's absolutely right. For an authoritative take on low-mileage replacement of power steering fluid, here's an opinion from a master Toyota mechanic regarding a Toyota with similar mileage to yours. As to brake fluid, the issue's a bit more involved. Brake fluid is a synthetic glycol - a type of alcohol. As such it's very hygroscopic (loves to sop up moisture). The problem is that while the glycol will resist boiling out to several hundred degrees F., any accumulated water will merrily boil at 212 deg. F. Since gas in the line will impact braking performance, you could be in trouble if there's enough water in the line to give you a spongey pedal in an emergency. It's a good idea to have the brake lines flushed every two or three years with fresh fluid. More than $40.00 to do the job is highway robbery, though. Sounds to me like your dealer's service manager is looking to fund his kids' college educations on the bonuses he collects with unnecessary and inflated price make-work service sales.
Hi all, I am begining to notice some "strange" resistance against my gas peddle. I have to give it a little extra push sometimes to get the car going. I know that my Camry is only a I-4 but this is a little odd to me. I have a '98 Camry that has about 75,000 mi on it. This begain about a month ago and I have treated with the fule injection cleaner and it didn't seem to help. Do you all think that I should have my fuel filter replaced or flushed? Thanks.
If your car has a mechanical cable for throttle control (vs. "drive-by-wire" electronic technology) it's possible that the throttle cable needs a squirt of WD40 or a teflon-containing penetrating light lube. This may or may not be an involved process depending on your car's setup.
I'm pretty sure the '98 Camry still had a mechanical linkage (cable), so your diagnosis appears to be on the money. I don't believe the Camry switched to "drive-by-wire" until the 2002 model redesign.
How can I determine the damage from sludge build up? with out expensive tearing apart of the engine? Toyota value is 8 yrs. Then there not responce able. I do have metal in bottom of oil change pan. I change oil every 30-45 days 4-5000miles with mobile 1 and high buck filter. Catalitic Converter has been replaced. Engine light comes on. Boy do I wish it had oil pressure light. Is there a place to check out old oil like Airplanes are required? Engine doesn't blow blue smoke. Yet Help
This particular forum is entitled "NEW Camry Owners--Give Us Your Report", but as a courtesy to you, I'll respond--assuming your post isn't just a ploy to resurrect ancient history. Obviously it has little to do with "New Camry Experiences!!" First of all, the sludge controversy of several years ago is long since over. There were many theories re what the cause might have been, with lots of back and forth speculation, and Toyota wasn't the only automaker affected by this issue either. However, in the final analysis the vast majority of opinion pointed toward a case of people simply not changing oil often enough, ie proper maintenance. Toyota, to its credit, came out with a goodwill gesture--a SPA in 02 (Special Policy Advisory) giving people an 8 year window to cover any sludge related repairs--but they had to show some evidence of proper maintenance had been done. Toyota also made a minor engine modification to increase tolerance for sludge development over prolonged oil change intervals. That seemed to do the trick because there have been few complaints over the last 4 or 5 years. The best way to check for sludge is to remove a valve cover and examine the valve train. It's a fairly simple procedure, and not too expensive. It's the first thing to do. To determine damage from sludge is a different situation and involves more complexity and cost. This would require removal of the oil pan to examine the bottom end of the engine. Along with this a borescope of inaccessable areas would be possible. You mentioned oil analysis. This is a simple and inexpensive way to monitor your engines health, and I recommend it as a trend measurement over tjhe life of an engine. However, one analysis isn't going to tell you much--unless wear metals levels are quite high. If that's the case, damage may already be in progress and it's too late. You can find any number of oil analysis resources on the web, and all you do is take a small oil sample during an oil change, mail or courier it to the company, and they will send you a report back. Usually a small fee--say 15 or 20 dollars--is applicable. You mentioned frequent oil changes for your vehicle--roughly every 30 days and 4-5000 miles. That indicates a mileage rate of around 48000 miles per year! I would have to think you have a high mileage vehicle and the usage profile would qualify as "severe". Also, if you're finding metal particles in the oil, it's quite likely the engine is damaged. My guess is that you may be out of luck in having Toyota pick up the tab under the conditions of their SPA, but you certainly have nothing to lose by trying. Your post title prominently displays a Class Action Suit--I am of the opinion that Edmunds frowns on solicitation for any such activity, so my advice would be to be cautious that you aren't considered to be drumming up business. To the best of my knowledge there was one such Class Action in Georgia, but it didn't amount to any sort of bonanza for the participants. I think Lawyers who handled the action got some money for fees and costs, but the rank and file were simply awarded conditions of the the original SPA. They got their engines repaired--provided they were able to prove proper maintenance.
>Toyota wasn't the only automaker affected by this issue either. However, in the final analysis the vast majority of opinion pointed toward a case of people simply not changing oil often enough, ie proper maintenance.
Wasn't the lengthened oil change interval recommended by Toyota a major factor in the decomposition of the oil to cause sludge in the design, hot spot, problem? I didn't research but I'm going on memory. And the proof of oil change at specified intervals was reduced to one per year? Toyota at first was using the working PR that it was the customer's fault with one lady being especially vocifierous on the web, but then reality began to set it.
Yes, there were other engines affected by sludging. Some same factors in play.
Too late for some, but those frequent 3000 mile changes under short trip driving saved a lot of motors when the drivers didn't go for the 10000 mile oil change recommendations for lower maintenance costs.
Maybe the hosts can move these posts to a Toyota sludge discussion.
The box wrenches for lines are at Sears (yuck) and other wrench stores. They have a small opening on one side of the box for the line to slide in through and then you still have the box surrounding most of the nut. Check for them at PepBoys, Advanced, Harbor Freight, usw.
)) "Is there a place to check out old oil like Airplanes are required?" ((
One such oil analysis company is Blackstone Laboratories. Log on and order a free oil sampling kit/mailer. Their basic analysis (gas chromatography) fee is $20.00, payable with your sample submission.
My 2000 Camry LE has 104,000 miles. The brakes and brake fluid have never been changed. On two extremely cold days, the dashboard brake light came on, but went off after hitting the accelerator. Two weeks have passed without the dashboard brake light going on, again. Does the brake fluid need to be changed, now? The brakes seem fine. Do they need to be replaced? Isn't there a scraping noise mechanism to indicate when the pads get to a low level?
Brake fluid is "hygroscopic" - readily mixes with water - so should be changed out every two or three years to maintain efficiency. How you managed to achieve between 6 and 7 years on the same set of front brake pads is a story worthy of an entire "Ripley's Believe it or Not!" column. Have you checked the fluid level in the master cylinder reservoir recently? Ever?
(And, yes, most OEM brake pads have a small sheet-metal "scraper" riveted to the brake pad backing plate that will grunt, screech, or otherwise audibly warn the car owner by contacting the brake rotor whan applying the brakes when the pad material has worn below a certain thickness that the need for brake work is quickly approaching.)
The car is over 6 years old. The brake fluid is up to the maximum level. I haven't physically checked the quality of the fluid. I will change it asap. Should it be flushed? A previous post stated using a turkey baster to remove the fluid and add new fluid. Is it ok to do it that way?
As far as the pads go, if there is no scraping sound, can I go longer, or should they be replaced now?
Different Toyota dealers told me the pads are ceramic, the other semi-metallic. Does it matter which type is used?
)) "A previous post stated using a turkey baster to remove the fluid and add new fluid. Is it ok to do it that way?" ((
No - that was poor advice. Doing that will only change out some of the fluid - and only in the reservoir at that. The fluid in the lines is every bit as important to exchange, too. In a nutshell, a bleed screw on each caliper has to be loosened after removing its rubber covering (prevents dirt intrusion) and sliding an appropriate diameter 1 1/2 ft or so section of clear vinyl tubing over the bleed screw's nipple and putting its other end in a jar filled with a couple of inches of fresh brake fluid (DOT3 or DOT4 polyglycol* - brand is irrelevant since brake fluid quality is federally mandated in the U.S. Do NOT use DOT5 fluid since it's an incompatible silicone based product). The master cylinder reservoir cap also has to be removed. If fluid begins dribbling into the jar on its own, gravity is conveniently at work. Monitor the master cylinder reservoir and top up to prevent air from being sucked into the line you're working on. (Refill the reservoir with fresh brake fluid as needed to maintain a fluid level between the full and add fluid lines.) Allow another 30 seconds or so for fresh fluid to exchange the old fluid out of the line, then resnug the bleed screw on that caliper. (Careful here - it is possible to strip the threads on aluminum calipers.) Once you've flushed that line, move to the next wheel and so forth. Start with the rear wheels. If fluid will not drain on its own, you need the help of someone to slowly pump the brake pedal to the floor, and hold it there while you re-snug the bleed screw (to prevent the caliper from sucking old fluid or air back in when the brake pedal is allowed to return to its normal position). There's nothing hard other than the physical labor of jacking and removing each wheel consecutively for access to the bleed screws. Alternatively, you can take the car to any brake or full service shop to have the job done. Shouldn't cost more than 35 or 40 bucks. Add another 15 or 20 bucks if a dealership service department bleeds your brakes.
*Though appearing, feeling, and smelling somewhat similar to an oil, polyglycols, like any organic liquid ending in "ol", are actually alcohols with very high boiling points (DOT4 more so than DOT3 - though they are interchangeable.). Polyglycol brake fluid is also an excellent paint remover so be careful to immediately wipe up accidental spills on your car's finish, followed with a clean water wetted rag wipe to further absorb/disburse any remaining residue. I use previously opened brake fluid as paint remover when restoring 50's era American Flyer, Lionel, and Marx S-gauge and O/O27 gauge toy train pieces since it's harmless to polystyrene plastic and completely cleans up afterword with just a clear water rinse.
I 'd like to add the Power Steering Fluid to my 06 Camry. On the cap of the cup it says to use DEXRON ATF. So I went to the dealer. They asked me which type because they have 3 kinds: the regular power steering fluid, DEXRON or ATF. I confused by it to use which. Please advise; Thanks so much.
)) "They asked me which type because they have 3 kinds: the regular power steering fluid, DEXRON or ATF. I confused by it to use which." ((
Your dealer muddied the waters further with that advice. "Dexron", in its various Roman numeral iterations, is a GM spec automatic transmission fluid. Since automatic transmission fluids are basically hydraulic fluids, most automakers settled long ago on spec'ing it for power steering systems, too. It followed to use the most common type available - Dexron. So, you could use Toyota's own "Power Steering Fluid" if you like paying extra for the Toyota name on the bottle, or any brand Dexron III ATF. (When you come across whatever brand power steering fluid in autoparts store or departments, they're really relabled Dexron sold in smaller bottles at inflated prices.) The major exception to the power steering fluid game is the very specific fluid that Honda demands for its systems. Your Camry's powersteering pump and rack won't know the difference as long as you use universally available Dexron. (Just don't use Dexron in your Camry's automatic transmission.)
Hey andee, I have an 05 2.4L Camry, and I change my oil myself at 5000 mile intervals using Mobil 1. I cannot tell if the oil does anything different to the engine, but the engine has always performed well and gets great mileage (25 to 28 in town and 39 hwy). I never drive over 65 (I'm retired and have lots of time). I also use a K&N filter, keep my throttle body and Mass Air Sensor clean.
Boy, there sure is a difference of opinion out there, isn't it. Believe it or not this advice came from the dealer service mgr. At 30k, I called to asked if it was really necessary to change all of that stuff listed on the service booklet in your glove box. The mgr told me no! Can you believe that? He said at about 60 to 70k you might want to check the tranny fluid color and make a decision and he told me not to change spark plugs until 90k. I ckecked the coolant,and tranny fluid color and they are very clean. I clean my K&N air filter about every 10K. When things begin to go wrong-ie gas mileage, I will start changing things. That's my nickel's worth. Good luck
I can't believe I just found this Edmund's Forum two months ago. I consider myself a pretty good "shade tree and jack stand" mechanic which means I know enough to be dangerous. I have learned a lot from all of you contributors. Have a great 2007 and pray for the safe return of our kids in uniform.
I recently noticed that those transmission gear marker(P,R,D,2,L) did not lit up when I switch on the lights on my 97 Camry. I checked the owner's manual and did not find any chapter addressed this problem. Anybody had such experience before and know how to fix it?
All the prices are in the same range. The problem with buying the parts yourself, is that if something fails then you are on the hook to re-pay for the labor to replace it. If you pay someone to have the job done and they used a defective part, then it's on them to replace it and eat their own labor cost. You don't want to have to get into discussions trying to prove or disprove who's problem it is....part was defective, or it wasn't installed correctly.
My guideline is if you do the work yourself, then you can buy the parts yourself and save there as well. If you are paying someone to do it, then let them get the parts.
I'd go with the place that appears to be most technically capable with the best reputation for 'doing it right'. If this job isn't done right (engine cooling, timing, and electrical)....you'll find yourself on the side of the road with a towtruck fee as well. IMHO, this is not a project to utilize the 'low bidder wins' buying philosophy.
I have recently changed the engine oil in my 07 camry v6 by myself. I ended up using 6 bottles of mobile one oil, does anyone know how much it really takes in. Seems a bit much because my old car takes only about 4 bottles.
Yes, it sounds like you put in too much -- check the owner's manual. What does your dipstick indicate? I would think the engine takes not more than 5 quarts and maybe only 4.
You had best check quickly, and then drain some of the oil. But it might be simpler to just drain it all into a clean container, and then put the right amount back in. Don't forget that the oil filter will still be full, so you want to add only the amount specified in the manual without the filter.
I'd save the excess and re-use it the next time, because it's not going to be dirty.
My Recent trip to the Toyota Dealer (the whole "Customer Loyalty" thing...where they charge you about 65-70 to replace the oil, and filters, etc etc and every other trip is free. I just recently had to resurface the Rotors (they were shimmying the car when I had to hard break. Does that sound legit?). But after that bill, I decided to do some self maintenance. Since I know that they generally overbill.
I was wondering, what tools would be useful (within reason, I am not going to get a Hydraulic Lift or anything)? I have some equipment, but not sure what would be good for this Model.
Some cars are easier to change oil in than others. If you have the V6, I found this on the net as a help to changing the oil if it uses a separate filter...click here It appears your V6 is a little harder to change than some cars where all you need is a wrench for the drain plug and a catch pan (auto parts store) and a replacement filter that screws on like a can and a strap wrench (other other style) to take the filter can off.
I really like the wood ramps the fellow in the link uses to lift the car up to give some room under it to work. I have a set that's 4 thick. Do not use a jack alone without a stand under the car in case the jack slips or fails. I use a scissors jack under one side of my car to lift to make it easier to get at the filter.
If you have a 4, I suggest you do some searching on the net. Autozone and Advanced Auto and other stores have help sections on their web sites.
The easiest is to buy the factory service manual for your car. It makes for great reading if you're thinking of doing more work on the car--or understanding what the repair facility has to do. It should help with brake replacement. Some car brands are easier than others.
Do some searching on google for terms about what you're interested in doing, i.e., replacing brakes 2007 Camry.
-Replace Platinum spark plugs (supposedly this is a little labor-intensive because rear plugs are p-i-t-a, something about rear manifold...)
-Replace timing belt, water pump, engine coolant, check oil seals
-Replace the 2 drivebelts
-Tuneup (fuel filter, air filter, etc.)
Quotes: $835 from one guy $625 from another but that didn't include the spark plugs $700 from another (also not incl. spark plugs, said the plugs would probably be another $250-300) $800 from another guy incl. plugs
Any thoughts?
Also, is it considered 'ok' to buy the parts myself and just bring everything to the shop and have them do the labor? Anyone have experience doing that?
Agree with this. Please check out the reputations of the 4 places you're considering with friends, relatives, or co-workers. This is not the kind of repair for taking shortcuts.
Thanks, good advice. Will just let them get all the parts & do the work. The extra $200 I may save isn't worth the risk for work that is done once every 90k miles...
I just bought 05 Camry LE model with 30K miles on it and thinking about taking it to dealer for 30k check up. What usually needs to be done? For example, does spark plug has to be replaced at 30K? The previous owner says dealer told him to change brake pads at 30K. Is this necessary?
Also, what are the list of duarbles items that needs to be changed regularly? For example, in the manual, it seems oil filter has to be replaced every 5k. Is this the case?
Did you get an owner's manual and the maintenance manual? You need to read these carefully before going to a repair shop, or else purchase the manuals on eBay.
The oil and filter should be changed every 6 months or 5000 miles, whichever comes first. If it's a 4-cylinder, it has a timing chain that should last the life of the car. The spark plugs are good for 120,000 miles. Replace both the engine air filter and cabin air filter at 30,000 miles. The brakes depend on past usage -- the front brake pads could be shot, or they can last till 100,000 miles, depending on how the car was driven.
Read up first on what needs to be done, then write down the list and give it to the repair shop (it doesn't have to be a Toyota dealer). Obviously, if you hear strange noises, or the car doesn't feel right, write these down too in as much detail as possible.
Thanks for quick reply. As for the oil changes, what is norm, 3k or 5k? And when you say cabin filter you mean a/c filter? One of dealer is quoting 325 dollars for general check up(brake etc) and oil, transmission, differential fluid change as well as air filter etc. Is this reasonable price or should I take it to other independent maintenance shop?
Just go with the manual -- 6 months or 5,000 miles, whichever comes first. Some may argue, but 3000-mile oil changes are overkill, unless of course 6 months roll by.
Cabin filter is the a/c or pollen filter behind the glove compartment. That dealer is doing more than needs to be done and asking way too much -- seek out a reputable independent shop and ask that they do only what's listed in the manual. It's helpful as I said to write down the individual items listed in the manual -- don't tell them to do the "30,000-mile maintenance" or they may do unnecessary stuff as well.
A thorough visual inspection of the underbody is a good idea (the car has to be raised anyway for the oil change), because you probably don't know the past history of the car. Since the tires also should be rotated, they should check the condition of the brakes.
Comments
Get recommendations from friends, relatives, and co-workers.
When the major service intervals come due (15K miles, 30K miles, etc.), copy everything from the Toyota maintenance manual and give this to your shop. If additional repairs are suggested, ask to see the evidence (need) for the repairs. This is especially true if the car is showing no symptoms of problems.
I am using the same gas pump, no change in tire pressure, same toyota oil filters, same air filters or no more highway miles etc. Driving habits are the same as well.
Just wondering if someone also has the same experience. If this is true then Syn. Oil pays for itself.
Local Parts stores such as Advance, PepBoys, etc often have high rebates on Sopus (Pennzoil and Quaker State) oils making them almost the same cost as conventional if you DIY.
Inexpensive syns, usually from Warren (store brands and Wal-Mart oil, etc) will actually cost more than Sopus w/reb.
It's also not surprising to see a 2-6% fuel economy improvement when denser summer blend gasoline becomes available in late spring.
Where does the information come from that your 3 oils are in order of ascending quality?
Well, it's a generally held opinion on an oil related forum ("BITOG") I frequent (and make an equal nuisance of myself on). The pricing seems to support the order, too. None of the SOPUS lubes are bad - if you've been satisfied with QS, there's no reason to change unless you're an experimenter. Remember, API/ILSAC performance ratings (currently "SM" and "GF-4") trump brand name, and all commonly available general purpose automobile motor oils carry those ratings. The exceptions are special purpose racing blends and specific European formulas for cars with stylized propeller insignias, three-pointed stars, Teutonic coat-of-arms shields, rearing horses, or cutting bulls depicted on their front ends.
So, what do I use? I'm slowly working my way through 84 quarts of Phillips 66 TropArtic I found at Dollar Tree prior to Katrina.
Caution is the watchword when adding refrigerant. Most (all?) cars no longer have a sight-glass on the receiver-dryer or liquid line to aid in determining when the system is full by the absence of bubbles during operation. That, combined with the much reduced amounts of refrigerant used in modern systems, means that overfilling to the point of rupturing a hose is a very real possibility. (Ask me how I know...
These dealers come up with new ways of fleecing us every day!
This should cost no more than about $30-$40 or so -- check with friends, relatives, or co-workers for good independently owned shop.
Here's a good summary (post #8) I bookmarked a while back about why brake fluid should be changed.
210delray's absolutely right. For an authoritative take on low-mileage replacement of power steering fluid, here's an opinion from a master Toyota mechanic regarding a Toyota with similar mileage to yours. As to brake fluid, the issue's a bit more involved. Brake fluid is a synthetic glycol - a type of alcohol. As such it's very hygroscopic (loves to sop up moisture). The problem is that while the glycol will resist boiling out to several hundred degrees F., any accumulated water will merrily boil at 212 deg. F. Since gas in the line will impact braking performance, you could be in trouble if there's enough water in the line to give you a spongey pedal in an emergency. It's a good idea to have the brake lines flushed every two or three years with fresh fluid. More than $40.00 to do the job is highway robbery, though. Sounds to me like your dealer's service manager is looking to fund his kids' college educations on the bonuses he collects with unnecessary and inflated price make-work service sales.
Mike
First of all, the sludge controversy of several years ago is long since over. There were many theories re what the cause might have been, with lots of back and forth speculation, and Toyota wasn't the only automaker affected by this issue either. However, in the final analysis the vast majority of opinion pointed toward a case of people simply not changing oil often enough, ie proper maintenance. Toyota, to its credit, came out with a goodwill gesture--a SPA in 02 (Special Policy Advisory) giving people an 8 year window to cover any sludge related repairs--but they had to show some evidence of proper maintenance had been done. Toyota also made a minor engine modification to increase tolerance for sludge development over prolonged oil change intervals. That seemed to do the trick because there have been few complaints over the last 4 or 5 years.
The best way to check for sludge is to remove a valve cover and examine the valve train. It's a fairly simple procedure, and not too expensive. It's the first thing to do.
To determine damage from sludge is a different situation and involves more complexity and cost. This would require removal of the oil pan to examine the bottom end of the engine. Along with this a borescope of inaccessable areas would be possible.
You mentioned oil analysis. This is a simple and inexpensive way to monitor your engines health, and I recommend it as a trend measurement over tjhe life of an engine. However, one analysis isn't going to tell you much--unless wear metals levels are quite high. If that's the case, damage may already be in progress and it's too late.
You can find any number of oil analysis resources on the web, and all you do is take a small oil sample during an oil change, mail or courier it to the company, and they will send you a report back. Usually a small fee--say 15 or 20 dollars--is applicable.
You mentioned frequent oil changes for your vehicle--roughly every 30 days and 4-5000 miles. That indicates a mileage rate of around 48000 miles per year! I would have to think you have a high mileage vehicle and the usage profile would qualify as "severe". Also, if you're finding metal particles in the oil, it's quite likely the engine is damaged.
My guess is that you may be out of luck in having Toyota pick up the tab under the conditions of their SPA, but you certainly have nothing to lose by trying.
Your post title prominently displays a Class Action Suit--I am of the opinion that Edmunds frowns on solicitation for any such activity, so my advice would be to be cautious that you aren't considered to be drumming up business. To the best of my knowledge there was one such Class Action in Georgia, but it didn't amount to any sort of bonanza for the participants. I think Lawyers who handled the action got some money for fees and costs, but the rank and file were simply awarded conditions of the the original SPA. They got their engines repaired--provided they were able to prove proper maintenance.
Wasn't the lengthened oil change interval recommended by Toyota a major factor in the decomposition of the oil to cause sludge in the design, hot spot, problem? I didn't research but I'm going on memory.
And the proof of oil change at specified intervals was reduced to one per year?
Toyota at first was using the working PR that it was the customer's fault with one lady being especially vocifierous on the web, but then reality began to set it.
Yes, there were other engines affected by sludging. Some same factors in play.
Too late for some, but those frequent 3000 mile changes under short trip driving saved a lot of motors when the drivers didn't go for the 10000 mile oil change recommendations for lower maintenance costs.
Maybe the hosts can move these posts to a Toyota sludge discussion.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
One such oil analysis company is Blackstone Laboratories. Log on and order a free oil sampling kit/mailer. Their basic analysis (gas chromatography) fee is $20.00, payable with your sample submission.
(And, yes, most OEM brake pads have a small sheet-metal "scraper" riveted to the brake pad backing plate that will grunt, screech, or otherwise audibly warn the car owner by contacting the brake rotor whan applying the brakes when the pad material has worn below a certain thickness that the need for brake work is quickly approaching.)
Actually, my '97 Camry went to 109K miles before I had the front brake pads replaced. The rear drums were fine.
And I had changed the fluid well before that.
As far as the pads go, if there is no scraping sound, can I go longer, or should they be replaced now?
Different Toyota dealers told me the pads are ceramic, the other semi-metallic. Does it matter which type is used?
No - that was poor advice. Doing that will only change out some of the fluid - and only in the reservoir at that. The fluid in the lines is every bit as important to exchange, too. In a nutshell, a bleed screw on each caliper has to be loosened after removing its rubber covering (prevents dirt intrusion) and sliding an appropriate diameter 1 1/2 ft or so section of clear vinyl tubing over the bleed screw's nipple and putting its other end in a jar filled with a couple of inches of fresh brake fluid (DOT3 or DOT4 polyglycol* - brand is irrelevant since brake fluid quality is federally mandated in the U.S. Do NOT use DOT5 fluid since it's an incompatible silicone based product). The master cylinder reservoir cap also has to be removed. If fluid begins dribbling into the jar on its own, gravity is conveniently at work. Monitor the master cylinder reservoir and top up to prevent air from being sucked into the line you're working on. (Refill the reservoir with fresh brake fluid as needed to maintain a fluid level between the full and add fluid lines.) Allow another 30 seconds or so for fresh fluid to exchange the old fluid out of the line, then resnug the bleed screw on that caliper. (Careful here - it is possible to strip the threads on aluminum calipers.) Once you've flushed that line, move to the next wheel and so forth. Start with the rear wheels. If fluid will not drain on its own, you need the help of someone to slowly pump the brake pedal to the floor, and hold it there while you re-snug the bleed screw (to prevent the caliper from sucking old fluid or air back in when the brake pedal is allowed to return to its normal position). There's nothing hard other than the physical labor of jacking and removing each wheel consecutively for access to the bleed screws. Alternatively, you can take the car to any brake or full service shop to have the job done. Shouldn't cost more than 35 or 40 bucks. Add another 15 or 20 bucks if a dealership service department bleeds your brakes.
*Though appearing, feeling, and smelling somewhat similar to an oil, polyglycols, like any organic liquid ending in "ol", are actually alcohols with very high boiling points (DOT4 more so than DOT3 - though they are interchangeable.). Polyglycol brake fluid is also an excellent paint remover so be careful to immediately wipe up accidental spills on your car's finish, followed with a clean water wetted rag wipe to further absorb/disburse any remaining residue. I use previously opened brake fluid as paint remover when restoring 50's era American Flyer, Lionel, and Marx S-gauge and O/O27 gauge toy train pieces since it's harmless to polystyrene plastic and completely cleans up afterword with just a clear water rinse.
Dexron II or III for mine.
Your dealer muddied the waters further with that advice. "Dexron", in its various Roman numeral iterations, is a GM spec automatic transmission fluid. Since automatic transmission fluids are basically hydraulic fluids, most automakers settled long ago on spec'ing it for power steering systems, too. It followed to use the most common type available - Dexron. So, you could use Toyota's own "Power Steering Fluid" if you like paying extra for the Toyota name on the bottle, or any brand Dexron III ATF. (When you come across whatever brand power steering fluid in autoparts store or departments, they're really relabled Dexron sold in smaller bottles at inflated prices.) The major exception to the power steering fluid game is the very specific fluid that Honda demands for its systems. Your Camry's powersteering pump and rack won't know the difference as long as you use universally available Dexron. (Just don't use Dexron in your Camry's automatic transmission.)
Many thanks!
My guideline is if you do the work yourself, then you can buy the parts yourself and save there as well. If you are paying someone to do it, then let them get the parts.
I'd go with the place that appears to be most technically capable with the best reputation for 'doing it right'. If this job isn't done right (engine cooling, timing, and electrical)....you'll find yourself on the side of the road with a towtruck fee as well. IMHO, this is not a project to utilize the 'low bidder wins' buying philosophy.
You had best check quickly, and then drain some of the oil. But it might be simpler to just drain it all into a clean container, and then put the right amount back in. Don't forget that the oil filter will still be full, so you want to add only the amount specified in the manual without the filter.
I'd save the excess and re-use it the next time, because it's not going to be dirty.
I was wondering, what tools would be useful (within reason, I am not going to get a Hydraulic Lift or anything)? I have some equipment, but not sure what would be good for this Model.
It appears your V6 is a little harder to change than some cars where all you need is a wrench for the drain plug and a catch pan (auto parts store) and a replacement filter that screws on like a can and a strap wrench (other other style) to take the filter can off.
I really like the wood ramps the fellow in the link uses to lift the car up to give some room under it to work. I have a set that's 4 thick. Do not use a jack alone without a stand under the car in case the jack slips or fails. I use a scissors jack under one side of my car to lift to make it easier to get at the filter.
If you have a 4, I suggest you do some searching on the net. Autozone and Advanced Auto and other stores have help sections on their web sites.
The easiest is to buy the factory service manual for your car. It makes for great reading if you're thinking of doing more work on the car--or understanding what the repair facility has to do. It should help with brake replacement. Some car brands are easier than others.
Do some searching on google for terms about what you're interested in doing, i.e., replacing brakes 2007 Camry.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
-Replace Platinum spark plugs (supposedly this is a little labor-intensive because rear plugs are p-i-t-a, something about rear manifold...)
-Replace timing belt, water pump, engine coolant, check oil seals
-Replace the 2 drivebelts
-Tuneup (fuel filter, air filter, etc.)
Quotes:
$835 from one guy
$625 from another but that didn't include the spark plugs
$700 from another (also not incl. spark plugs, said the plugs would probably be another $250-300)
$800 from another guy incl. plugs
Any thoughts?
Also, is it considered 'ok' to buy the parts myself and just bring everything to the shop and have them do the labor? Anyone have experience doing that?
I just bought 05 Camry LE model with 30K miles on it and thinking about taking it to dealer for 30k check up. What usually needs to be done? For example, does spark plug has to be replaced at 30K? The previous owner says dealer told him to change brake pads at 30K. Is this necessary?
Also, what are the list of duarbles items that needs to be changed regularly? For example, in the manual, it seems oil filter has to be replaced every 5k. Is this the case?
Regards
J
The oil and filter should be changed every 6 months or 5000 miles, whichever comes first. If it's a 4-cylinder, it has a timing chain that should last the life of the car. The spark plugs are good for 120,000 miles. Replace both the engine air filter and cabin air filter at 30,000 miles. The brakes depend on past usage -- the front brake pads could be shot, or they can last till 100,000 miles, depending on how the car was driven.
Read up first on what needs to be done, then write down the list and give it to the repair shop (it doesn't have to be a Toyota dealer). Obviously, if you hear strange noises, or the car doesn't feel right, write these down too in as much detail as possible.
Regards
J
Cabin filter is the a/c or pollen filter behind the glove compartment. That dealer is doing more than needs to be done and asking way too much -- seek out a reputable independent shop and ask that they do only what's listed in the manual. It's helpful as I said to write down the individual items listed in the manual -- don't tell them to do the "30,000-mile maintenance" or they may do unnecessary stuff as well.
A thorough visual inspection of the underbody is a good idea (the car has to be raised anyway for the oil change), because you probably don't know the past history of the car. Since the tires also should be rotated, they should check the condition of the brakes.