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Hyundai Azera Air Filter Benefits?

richdagrichdag Posts: 37
edited March 2014 in Hyundai
I read that someone installed a washable high performance air filter such as a K&N or Fram Air Hog and got and increase in MPG. Has anyone here tried it? Just wondering how true this may be. Even a couple mpg would be great.

Rich
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Comments

  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    I spoke with a Hyundai service manager who said he put a K&N filter in his wife's Azera and the fuel economy improved. I am planning on doing the same thing myself.
  • hjc1hjc1 Posts: 183
    Your wasting your money...........I have tried several of these filters on different cars and never improved mileage.
    Just google K&N on the net and see what other people have said about them.
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    Now you're the first person I've ever hear say that. Well, it really isn't a waste of money because even if the FE doesn't improve, after you've washed the filter out and put it back in 5 or 6 times, it's paid for itself in that you're not buying a new filter every time it needs replacing.

    So either way...it'll help you save money in some way.
  • derrelhgreenderrelhgreen Posts: 234
    Amen to that my friend. :)

    When you been at it as long as I have, you will learn and know that these
    filters are not worth any horsepower or fuel economy increase.

    As far as saving you money, this is not true either. Simply go over to Freds TDI forum and read all about it.
    It seems that the slightly oily film can get onto the element of your MAF and queer everything up.

    Have you priced one of those little items yet? When you do, tell me how you are saving any money.

    As far as gaining any power at all, I had an Impala SS that I ran on a dyno.
    The fee for testing my SS included two 'pulls' so the operator asked what
    I wanted to change prior to his running the car the second time.

    I removed the stock AC air filter element which had 17K miles on it, so it was not new, and quess what?
    The horsepower readings were exactly the same!

    Now if you test with no restriction at all from any filter and the H/P readings are exactly
    the same, how can any aftermarket miracle filter be an improvement? :confuse:

    Your mileage may vary.

    :)
  • joe131joe131 Posts: 996
    Five or six times? How much do those K&N filters cost? Do you mean I'm not going to break even until 90,000 miles or so?
  • hjc1hjc1 Posts: 183
    $36 to $42 depending who you buy it from. The cleaner kit about $10 and you can buy a lot of after market regular filters for alot less and not deal with cleaning and oiling of the K&N filter
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    If you buy air filters retail, they run between $10-18. The K&N filter for the Azera was listed at around $60. You do the math.
  • pahefner01pahefner01 Posts: 202
    I put a K&N in my Jeep Cherokee right after purchase in 1999. It improves airflow greatly, especially on high mountain passes in Colorado. I've never had to buy an air filter. It definitely was not a waste of money. As far improved fuel economy I can't say for sure but I've saved a lot of bucks on paper air filter elements.
  • pahefner01pahefner01 Posts: 202
    Check with all the off road Jeepers in Colorado. They will all be running K&N filters. You need more air in the high mountain passes and you get it. My filter kit has paid for itself many times over.
  • derrelhgreenderrelhgreen Posts: 234
    Check with all the off road Jeepers in Colorado. They will all be running K&N filters. You need more air in the high mountain passes and you get it. My filter kit has paid for itself many times over.

    That just proves one thing: There are fools born every minute.

    How does using a messy oiled K & N filter improve air flow or provide more air than a stock paper element air filter?
    Can you prove that you are getting MORE air then is needed, when you already have as much or more than you already need?

    How are you saving any money when those messy and hard-to- handle after-market highly advertised POS costs so much to begin with? :confuse:

    How often do you change your stock original paper element air filter? Ever priced your original paper element replacement filter especially when they are on sale?
    Now tell me about how much money you are saving! :D

    How many stock paper element replacements can you buy when they are on sale for the original price of one of these K & N pieces of junk?

    I will go out on a limb and say that most people that are using these things trade their vehicles off before they begin to break even money-wise.
    And during this time, are they getting as good of the engine protection that the original paper element provided?

    Do you know what that oily film can do to your MAF? Priced one of those MAFs for your vehicle lately? Now tell me about saving money.

    Have any of you run oil analysis so you will know if your levels of silicon are not going sky high?

    It is your vehicle and you may do to it whatever you wish, and the people at K & N will love you for wasting your money. You are free to do that, but do not say that you were not warned.

    Your mileage may vary.

    Good luck.

    :)
  • joe131joe131 Posts: 996
    So Derrel, what do you really think about those K&N filters? I've heard good things about them. Are you using them in all your cars now and recommending them to family members too?
  • floridabob1floridabob1 Posts: 1,190
    How often are you guys changing your air filters?
    It would seem to me that in the mountains of Colorado the air should be pretty clean and not loaded with smog or city pollutants.
    I have never had a problem with any paper filter, and in the scheme of things, the cost of their replacement was low on the list of total maintenance expense.
  • derrelhgreenderrelhgreen Posts: 234
    So Derrel, what do you really think about those K&N filters?
    I've heard good things about them.
    Are you using them in all your cars now and recommending them to family members too?


    I cannot tell if you are serious or not? But if you are, here goes.
    Added to what I have said above in posts number 133 and 140, I have used them in the
    past, but only on modified cars that did not have factory air boxes or room for them.
    Examples are my supercharged Impala SS 385" "full race" sedan, my '78 turbocharged
    diesel rabbit, or my turbocharged 77 Honda Civic (2 valve head) model to name a few!
    Many of these cars were modified when I was younger and more foolish and had a few bucks to waste! :cry:

    Many have heard good things about K & N air filters, but I cannot prove what they are saying to be true.

    But there are those of us who know of people who have had problems while using them, and some
    pretty knowledgeable mechanics and "tuners" have written volumes about why NOT to use them.
    Sadly, I never did an oil analysis on any of my cars that had their filters.
    I would bet that many who do use 'em will find that their oil will contain very high levels of silicon (dirt!)

    I do not recommend them to anyone, even those people that I do not like!

    If anyone would care to read where I got some of the information I know, please email me and ask.

    :)
  • pahefner01pahefner01 Posts: 202
    There are fools born every minute.

    Are you speaking from personal experience. Have you ever been four wheeling in the high off road moutain passes in the Rockies. Have you ever driven a regular car at higher elevation. You will notice a significant drop in power because the car is starving for air. Have you ever looked at a K&N air filter. There is almost nothing to restrict the airflow to the engine. If your're running in low range manuevering around a tight switchback on Black Bear Pass you'd be glad you had a K&N filter.
    Don't knock what you don't know.

    Fools born every minute. Are you one of them? I was merely stating facts that I know. You seem to be having a bad day and attacking other people for something you know nothing about.

    Drive your car up Pike's Peak, it's an easy road, I think you could handle it and watch the drop in power. Good luck to you and I hope you have a better day.
  • pahefner01pahefner01 Posts: 202
    My Jeep Cherokee has 90 thousand miles on it and no engine damage. That K&N filter must be workig okay.
  • derrelhgreenderrelhgreen Posts: 234
    There are fools born every minute.

    Are you speaking from personal experience. Have you ever been four wheeling in the high off road moutain passes in the Rockies. Have you ever driven a regular car at higher elevation. You will notice a significant drop in power because the car is starving for air. Have you ever looked at a K&N air filter. There is almost nothing to restrict the airflow to the engine. If your're running in low range manuevering around a tight switchback on Black Bear Pass you'd be glad you had a K&N filter.


    I would ask one thing: How old are you young fellow?

    You are entitled to your opinion and that is good.
    I'll bet I've got many more years experience at this then you do I am sure.
    I drove up Pikes' Peak the first time in 1952. You?
    Any vehicle will loose power going that high in altitude due to there being only 17 inches of pressure.
    Didn't know that little fact did you?

    Have you ever driven up Love Land Pass in an Eagle and had to stop and take the air
    filter out because your 8V71 was dying because it couldn't get any air due to
    the fact that the mechanics had not cleaned the air filter for how long?

    Have you ever run any vehicle on a dyno. with or without any
    filter and recorded any differences in engine output?

    Well I done all that and more, and no, I am not having a bad day!

    Like I said, I am only trying to enlighten you and any others that may or may not be interested.
    If you want to believe me or not, that is entirely up to you.
    It is, after all, your car and your money. Continue to believe anything you like.
    You sound like one of those thinkers' that doesn't want to believe anything
    other than your beliefs no matter what is pointed out to you.

    Carry on, and good luck.

    :)
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    I for one appreciate the different points of view posted. Initially, I was gung ho about possibly getting a K&N filter, but I don't live in a mountainous region where elevation would be a problem for me.

    I have seen a K&N filter and I can see how it would not be as restrictive as a regular filter, but...I never thought about the oil used on the filter possibly causing damange to the MAF.

    Then again, the manager of the service dept. I frequent has stated that changing to a K&N filter would be a good move on my car. When I go in to get the transmission flushed on Friday, I'll ask more questions about the oil messing with the MAF.

    Before considering the K&N, I was thinking about a CAI, but...the Azera already has that. Would an aftermarket CAI be less restrictive than the factory set-up?

    If there is no power change between filtered and unfiltered, I would think that more air to the engine would allow the engine to perform a little more efficiently. Would I be wrong in thinking as such?
  • hjc1hjc1 Posts: 183
    Luvyah DERRELGREEN
    Your 100% correct
    Over the years I have bought the K&N B.S. and all I saw was
    $$$ wasted.
    Oh by the way K&N lovers I have a special formula for changing lead into Gold :=)
  • derrelhgreenderrelhgreen Posts: 234
    If there is no power change between filtered and unfiltered, I would think that more air to the engine
    would allow the engine to perform a little more efficiently. Would I be wrong in thinking as such?


    Yes, I'm afraid so. You already have more than enough air unless your factory stock air filter is completely
    plugged up, and in that case, you would be experiencing power loss and poor fuel economy big time.

    If you already have more air now than the motor can use, why would providing even more do you any good?

    The idea supposedly with the K & N is that there will be less restriction and you
    will therefore gain power and economy with even more air, which is pure nonsense.
    To gain more power, you will have to introduce more fuel, and how would that improve your fuel economy?

    Without some type of forced induction such as a turbocharger or supercharger,
    how are you going to introduce more air into the cylinders?

    If you already have a factory air filtering system that is efficient and it is providing you with
    more air than is required, how will adding a larger air filter give you any gain? Think about it! :D

    BTW, any gain from a CAI is provided not by it being less restrictive, but by it supposedly allowing
    cooler air to be drawn into the cylinders. The cooler the intake air, the more Oxygen it contains.

    Have you noticed how much more powerful your car seems on a cold day vs a hot summer day?

    :)
  • floridabob1floridabob1 Posts: 1,190
    RE: 149
    Right again!.
    The optimum fuel air mixture has been determined by the engineers who developed the engine. The air intake is designed to accomodate that mixture. The addition of more static air will not change the desirable mixture.
    Forced air can be advantageous, but the mixture would be adjusted to accomodate that increase in air pressure.
    Most independent tests have proven that the aftermarket air filters are more hype than performance.
  • cobrazeracobrazera Posts: 352
    With the exception of cold air intake, which, as stated before, the Azera already has.
    I have also seen performance increases ( without a CAI ) with the installation of a colder thermostat in order to keep underhood temperatures lower.
    I don't drive on dirt roads, and have hardly ever changed an air filter, their capacity for air is way more than the engine needs.
  • clarkkentclarkkent Posts: 154
    My Jeep has 247, 354 miles on it and it's running fine. My other two jeeps have 126,801 and 149,076 and they are also running just great! None of them have ever had a K&N filter on them so I'm going to say it's the Jeep engine NOT the K&N filter that keeps the jeeps running so long. Not that I'm saying there is anything wrong with a K&N I guess I'm saying there is also nothing special about them. My inexpensive (cheap) air filers are doing just as good a job as K&N at a fraction of the cost!
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...how can a turbo or supercharger induce more air than is already available? It just forces the air into the engine at a faster rate, right? In which case, a less restrictive filter would allow the air to pass through at a higher rate.

    If a vehicle has more air than it needs, then why is there a need for turbo & superchargers? If they introduce more air into the cylinders, creating more power...then you've basically contradicted your point about increased air flow not giving your engine more power.

    So you're right, it's not about the amount of air available, it's the rate at which it is fed into the engine. A less restrictive filter would allow the air to flow faster into the engine than a filter that restricts the flow. Sorta like what happens with a vacuum cleaner hose. With nothing in the way, it picks up with ease. Hold a piece of cloth in front of it and it'll still pick up, but not as effeciently.

    Most CAI systems are contained within the engine bay, so there is no cooler air going into the engine. Only way that will happen is if it is piped from outside the vehicle directly to the CAI system.

    Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....
  • derrelhgreenderrelhgreen Posts: 234
    Amen Bob.

    Seems that you are smarter than your average bear! :)

    Thanks for explaining in words that I did not have.

    :D
  • derrelhgreenderrelhgreen Posts: 234
    Going to a lower temperature thermostat may improve power, but at what costs?
    When we do that, not only are the emissions changed (raised)but the fuel efficiency is lowered in most cases.
    With gasoline being as expensive as it is now, and who knows what will happen 'down the road,'
    we sure do not want to do anything to lower our MPG, do we?

    I paid $3.379 for premium (91 octane) at Costco # 432 in Corona CA yesterday,
    and that is down slightly from what it was earlier this month.

    When a thinking person realizes how often he must or does change his air filter and how little that cost is, especially when he buys the replacement at Pep Boys when they have a coupon with a rebate or some such sale, that expensive K & N filter does not seem so attractive now does it? Throw in the extras for the K & N such as the special oil that you must spray on the element every time you clean it, the mess involved when you must clean it, and you must, and I think it is easier and less expensive to simply go out and buy a paper element and open up your air box, take the old dirty element out, perhaps vacuum out the box, wipe the dust out of it, throw in a new element and be done with it.

    Not to be stupid here, but do any of you think I should change out the original paper element filter of my seven year old 2000 Ford Focus Kona model that has 36K miles on it. It runs very well. Tanked up yesterday and it got 33.04 mpg.
    There is plenty of power. Catches 6800 rpm in first gear so fast I cannot believe it, and scratches rubber when
    shifted fast going to second gear, so there can not be any restriction as far as air flow is concerned.

    Oil analysis report from Blackstone Laboratories is 'in the mail' so I will
    soon know IF there is any silicon (dirt) problem within the engine. :confuse:

    Sorry for taking up so much band width!:blush: Hope some will find what I have said interesting? ;)

    :)
  • derrelhgreenderrelhgreen Posts: 234
    How can a turbo or supercharger induce more air than is already available?
    It just forces the air into the engine at a faster rate, right?
    In which case, a less restrictive filter would allow the air to pass through at a higher rate.


    I will try to straighten this post out. IF I leave anything out, somebody jump in here and help me, please.

    Zora Arkus-Duntov said it best when he said: "It's a Heat and Pressure Machine. As long as it can stand the heat and the pressure, it does not care." Or something to that effect. I was not there when he said it.
    A great engineer and thinker who designed the Ardun heads for the Ford flathead V8 and was later responsible for "warming up" the 'Vettes for GM. Passed away (sad loss) eleven years ago. What a brain!

    "A faster rate" No. But under higher pressure.

    Think of a supercharger or turbocharger is being nothing but a pressure pump, that forces more air under pressure (higher than atmospheric) into the intake manifold and therefore the cylinders. No longer is the engine dependent on the current atmospheric pressure to be able to "breath" but with this pressurization,
    it is able to use more air (oxygen) and therefore produce more power.

    Your air filter does nothing to raise that pressure. It only 'filters' the air to remove dirt, bugs, or anything you don't want to enter your motor. The idea is for the filter to do nothing but what it is supposed to do, period.
    It cannot raise the pressure, but if it is not big enough or efficient enough when used in your car,
    it can be a restriction because it will be a restriction to normal atmospheric pressure.

    Engineers go to great lengths to make sure that your stock air intake filter is as efficient as possible,
    so forget the hype that K & N and others are trying to lay on you!

    Hope I did not leave anything out, but I am afraid I probably did. Sorry.

    :)
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    Okay...I see what you're saying, but to a degree, it still boils down to more a

    A filter can only be but so efficient as it will block some air flow. By removing this blockage with something that's less restrictive, the air enters at a more rapid rate. Not as fast as what a turbo or supercharger would make it, but it's a non-mechanical concept of what the turbo/supercharger does.

    Of course because it doesn't compress the air like a turbo/supercharger would, you don't get the same type of boost out of it. However, the key to more power is to get more air and more fuel into the cylider for a bigger combustion to happen.

    Are you telling me that there is no difference in the amount of air getting into the cylinder between using a regular filter as opposed to one that's less restrictive?
  • jaymagicjaymagic Posts: 309
    Just got back to Denver from KC. I am always amazed how much more power any non turbo/cupercharged car has at low altitude. My Azzy does fine in Denver and the mountains, but the power boost at low altitude is amazing. My understanding is that the extra air offers at least 15% more power over Denver's altitude. Mileage stayed the same, just way more power.
  • joe131joe131 Posts: 996
    Your fatal assumption is that the K&N filter is less restrictive than the factory set-up.
    Unless that is true, your argument makes no sense. And even if it is true, it does not make much difference.
    A supercharger of turbocharger pressurizes the air, making it more dense, making its oxygen content higher than air coming into the motor under normal atmospheric pressure. A free flowing air filter does NOT do this.
  • derrelhgreenderrelhgreen Posts: 234
    Your fatal assumption is that the K&N filter is less restrictive than the factory set-up.

    Amen to that! Said in a few words, and to the point! ;)

    Are you telling me that there is no difference in the amount of air getting into the cylinder
    between using a regular filter as opposed to one that's less restrictive?


    Yes, that is exactly what I am saying.
    I proved to myself more than 10 years ago with my Impala SS that there was no loss of horsepower between a used stock factory installed A/C filter with 17K miles on it, and no filter at all.
    Now tell me about restrictions.
    There is no difference between your stock air filter system in most modern vehicles and these overly hyped and heavily advertised K & N supposedly "less restrictive" after market over priced junk filters.

    If you believe that these K & N filters, or any other heavily promoted after market filter is less restrictive,
    I know of a simple test that you may want to try.
    This little gauge will cost you less than the price of a K & N filter, and you will be able to keep it and tell
    whether your stock filter is becoming dirty and therefore clogged and in need of replacement.

    :)
  • joe131joe131 Posts: 996
    More fuel/air mixture allows more horsepower. Air is really thin in the mountains, that's why you need forced induction to avoid that great loss of power in the mountains.
  • joe131joe131 Posts: 996
    A very simple test:
    The more something is advertised, the less it is actually worth.
  • fushigifushigi Chicago suburbsPosts: 1,459
    When a thinking person realizes how often he must or does change his air filter and how little that cost is, especially when he buys the replacement at Pep Boys when they have a coupon with a rebate or some such sale, that expensive K & N filter does not seem so attractive now does it?

    A thinking person saw back in 1999 that the K&N air filter for his car was $44 and the aftermarket filters were running $18. Given the dusty conditions in this area (lots of construction), replacement of paper filters in both spring & fall is the norm. I'm still on that original K&N and have spent an additional $10 for the cleaning kit. Total cost: $54 + tax. If I had thought your way I'd have spent $288 + tax (over $300 total) with more to come.

    At about one sixth the cost of air filters, my wallet prefers my thinking to yours. So does the ecologist in me who has not seen an extra 16 filters go to the land fill.

    I was never too concerned about perceived increases in power or economy. If there was a change in power it was not detected. My fuel economy, though, has been quite good. EPA rated at 19/27 (17/25 under the revised rating), I consistently get 24.5 in city driving and 26-28 highway.
    2017 Infiniti QX60 (me), 2012 Hyundai Elantra (wife)
  • joe131joe131 Posts: 996
    See? There is always (at least) one exception to the rule.
  • floridabob1floridabob1 Posts: 1,190
    RE:155
    Internal combustion engines are most efficient when the internal heat is at the highest possible temperature. The cooling system is employed due to the fact that the materials used in the construction of the engine have limits to their ability to remain stable at extreme temperatures.
    Most engine manufactures have been experimenting for years on ceramic engines that can operate at extremely high internal temperatures. These engines have proven to be extremely efficient with much lower fuel consumption.
  • pahefner01pahefner01 Posts: 202
    The issue at altitude is not air. There is as much air at 12,000 feet but there is far less oxygen. Above about five thousand feet one can feel the lack of oxygen in their body. A vehicle is starving for oxygen to ignite the fuel. K&N filters have their place and are useful in those places. I don't have one in my Azzy but I will always have one in my Jeep and it will be cleaned and re-oiled before going into the mountains.
    A K&N filter is not that much unlike removing the stock air filter on the old muscle cars. Remember how you could hear that big four barrel carburetor enjoying that extra oxygen? The same principle is involved.
    If you don't drive at altitude then a K&N is of probably no use to you. However, K&Ns have their place. Even the sticker has value because you don't have the guy at the instant oil change place trying to sell you an overpriced paper filter element that you might happen to buy on impule.
  • joe131joe131 Posts: 996
    Yes, the issue at altitude is the amount of air. Air is nitrogen, hydrogen and oxygen. There is less of it at altitude. The air is less dense, there is more nothingness mixed in with the air at high altitudes. If you go even higher there is none of any of it. Its called space then, not air.
    Yeah, oxygen burns with the gas. I expect the hydrogen and nitrogen burn there too. So?
    So you think that big 4-barrel was enjoying extra oxygen when you took the air filter element out of the housing? And you think that because you could "hear" it enjoying it? Not hardly! It was just extra noise you were hearing since the air was making a racket bouncing around in the empty housing as it made its way into the carb. Oh, a little bit of that extra noise may have been the internal engine parts being ground down by the abrasive particles in that unfiltered air you were "treating" your engine to. (Mom, can I have another Snickers bar with my 44 oz. Big Gulp?)
    Except for that one guy who posted earlier, sounds like K&N filters are a waste of time and money.
    And if anyone trys to sell you an overpriced anything, just say no. You don't need no steenking stickers talking for you.
  • floridabob1floridabob1 Posts: 1,190
    RE:168
    Right again!
    At altitude the air is thinner. The percentages of nitrogen, hydrogen and oxygen does not change.
    A turbo charger forces more air into the system. The fuel injector are more precise in injecting a metered amount of fuel into the cylinder than the carb.
    The engine computers utilized in todays engines are capable of adjusting the mixture and timing thru a series of oxygen sensors. These were not utilized in the old muscle cars.
  • derrelhgreenderrelhgreen Posts: 234
    " A thinking person saw back in 1999 that the K&N air filter for his car was $44 and the aftermarket filters were running $18. Given the dusty conditions in this area (lots of construction), replacement of paper filters in both spring & fall is the norm. I'm still on that original K&N and have spent an additional $10 for the cleaning kit. Total cost: $54 + tax. If I had thought your way I'd have spent $288 + tax (over $300 total) with more to come.

    At about one sixth the cost of air filters, my wallet prefers my thinking to yours. So does the ecologist in me who has not seen an extra 16 filters go to the land fill.

    I was never too concerned about perceived increases in power or economy. If there was a change in power it was not detected. My fuel economy, though, has been quite good. EPA rated at 19/27 (17/25 under the revised rating), I consistently get 24.5 in city driving and 26-28 highway. "


    You don't say what your vehicle is, and I guess it doesn't really matter.

    But as one thinking person to another, I would ask why you are changing your filter twice a year?
    You must pay $18 dollars for a replacement filter?

    I just bought a Purolator for my Focus today that was a coupon special at Pep Boys for $7.53 including tax.
    It will be the first air filter change in seven years and 36K miles.
    I haven't looked at the original paper element for some time, but I'll bet that it's still good and still serviceable.
    So for the cost of $54 plus tax, how long at the rate I change filters will it take me to "break even?"
    The poor old Focus will be in the landfill long before wouldn't you say?

    Now let us say that if I were to start using a K & N filter and the oil from it were to ruin my MAF
    as has happened to many TDI vehicles as reported over on Freds.' Priced a MAFs for your car lately?
    If you were to even know what the little electrical part costs, I doubt that you would gamble that against your perceived savings.

    Unless you drive on dirt roads all the time or are off-road all the time, why are you changing your air filter so often?

    Are you one of those drivers that changes your engine oil every three thousand miles also?

    BTW, Pep Boys does not carry or show any listings for air filters for the Azera.
    Purolator does list one for the Azera, but Pep Boys just doesn't stock it.

    Now as far as paper air filters clogging up our landfills, do you read a newspaper?
    How about paper barrel bags from the grocery store? We are talking paper here, not radio-active waste!

    Carry on and good luck.

    :)
  • derrelhgreenderrelhgreen Posts: 234
    "Are you telling me that there is no difference in the amount of air getting into the
    cylinder between using a regular filter as opposed to one that's less restrictive?"


    Yes. What do you mean by less restrictive? Less than what?
    There is virtually no restriction in a properly designed air box with an original paper
    element filter
    installed within that isn't completely or partially plugged.

    I have tested an Impala SS with and without any air filter element in the box. There was no difference in power output.
    The original filter I removed was used for 17K miles, so it was not brand new.

    BTW, that air filter box had extra holes drilled in it to increase the air flow to the filter. Didn't want to rely on the single somewhat smaller air intake leading to the filter. Many in our SS group were doing that simple modification.

    For those who would like to know just how much restriction there is in their own set up no matter what filter is being used, try:

    http://www.filterminder.com/fleet/howfilterminderswork.asp

    And if you still want to know more about WHY NOT TO USE any other filter other than a good stock paper element, read:

    http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=174067&highlight=air+filter+restriction+gauge

    Now IF the information there doesn't get you to at least Think About It well, what can I say?

    BTW, notice how many individuals belong to Freds.' Also, how long that forum has been up and running.

    There are some really smart fellows there, and they do know one hell of a lot more than yours' truly!

    :)
  • pahefner01pahefner01 Posts: 202
    Very well stated. I've had my K&N filter in my Jeep since 1999. 80K miles later I've not had to buy a single paper element air filter. Time is also money and I've never had to make a trip to Pep Boys or WalMart or wherever to buy a paper filter element. I'm sure I'm money ahead and I have put no paper air filter elements in any landfill since I've been running the same filter for 8 years.
  • pahefner01pahefner01 Posts: 202
    Did a K&N air filter scare you as a child? I can't think of any other reason for your continued posting of your extreme opposition to them.
    Have you ever been to the NHRA races and watched the naturally aspirated Pro Stocks run. Are you aware that they make less horsepower at altitude? Do you think they are running paper air filter elements.
    As previously stated unless you've driven at altitude you have no idea what difference a K&N filter makes. It makes a difference.
    If your theory on the noise of a Carter AFB running unrestricted as being air bouncing around in the empty chamber and abrasive particles grinding the engine to shreds you may have another Snickers Bar and a 44 oz Big Gulp.
    Give it a rest. Why did muscle cars have air induction?
    Buy whatever air filter you want and waste your money on paper but please give us a break. You've made your dislike of K&N filters well known. Trying to prove your dislike using warped science isn't necessary. We know you don't like them and we don't care.
  • floridabob1floridabob1 Posts: 1,190
    RE: 44
    Easy guys, high blood pressure is worse than low air pressure.
    This is a forum of opinions, don't take it too seriously.
    Remember,they still sell vanilla and chocolate.
    And some sell strawberry as well.
  • richdagrichdag Posts: 37
    WOW... I only asked a simple question in another post but in seem to have gotten its own catigorie! I didn't mean to cause any hard feeling or start an argument, i was just curious about K&N filters. I'm not a car nut and I'm not real technically knowledgeable about cars. I just really like the Azera and hopefully going on buying one as soon as I'm able to. It's not worth getting all stress out over.
    Oh..buy the way, I'm still not sure about the anwser to my origanal question.

    Rich
  • floridabob1floridabob1 Posts: 1,190
    RE: 46
    IMO, for non tech guys, sticking with OEM type product is usually the wisest.
    Many times it's the best for the high tech guys as well.
  • pahefner01pahefner01 Posts: 202
    I just bought a Purolator for my Focus today that was a coupon special at Pep Boys for $7.53 including tax.
    It will be the first air filter change in seven years and 36K miles.


    A better question would be is why are you only changing your air filter once every seven years? Air filters are cheap maintenance whether they are paper, K&N, or anything or anything else.
  • fushigifushigi Chicago suburbsPosts: 1,459
    But as one thinking person to another, I would ask why you are changing your filter twice a year?
    You must pay $18 dollars for a replacement filter?


    As I stated, there is a lot of construction around here. That raises a lot of dust. So much that doing nothing to a car will still lead to it needing a wash after only 3-5 days.

    I just checked and paper replacement filters are down to $14.95.

    So if you take the lower cost and, being generous, replace the filter every 15K miles instead of twice a year that's still a cost of $120+tax (I have about 130K on the car). Even with that schedule & price I'm almost $70 ahead.

    Now let us say that if I were to start using a K & N filter and the oil from it were to ruin my MAF...

    No MAF ruined; not an issue. When I clean the filter I follow the directions which include telling you to not oversaturate the filter element.

    Are you one of those drivers that changes your engine oil every three thousand miles also?

    While under warranty I followed the manual's service intervals for everything. Now that the warranty is over I go a bit farther between oil changes.

    Now as far as paper air filters clogging up our landfills, do you read a newspaper?
    How about paper barrel bags from the grocery store? We are talking paper here, not radio-active waste!


    That's really off topic, but I read the Sunday paper & always recycle it. We also recycle glass, cans, plastic, and other paper products that can reasonably be recycled. A used air filter isn't a candidate for recycling because of the trapped dirt. You'd also have to separate it from the plastic housing. Basically go to the effort of tearing it apart.

    We always get plastic bags at the grocery store. They are frequently reused for carrying other things and are recycled when no longer usable.
    2017 Infiniti QX60 (me), 2012 Hyundai Elantra (wife)
  • derrelhgreenderrelhgreen Posts: 234
    "A better question would be is why are you only changing your air filter once every seven years?
    Air filters are cheap maintenance whether they are paper, K&N, or anything or anything else."


    That is a valid point to be sure! :D

    However, a better question might be:
    Why waste the money and change it when it DOES NOT NEED TO BE CHANGED?
    In other words, if it ain't broke, why fix it?

    I can tell by the way old faithful performs that there is no problem with my original paper air filter.

    And just to prove my point to myself only, I am expecting an oil analysis result back from
    Blackstone Laboratories momentarily. These results, among many other things, will tell
    me whether or not my air filter system is functioning as it was designed to do.

    Not to change the subject, but . . has anyone ever heard of an original Ford battery lasting for more than seven (7) years?

    Many here might say:
    "You'd better get a new one right away," as in today. "Do you want to be stranded?"

    Battery failure does not bother me.
    AAA plus my handy dandy Sears charger will take care of any battery problems I might encounter.
    If it ain't broke, why change it?

    Peace People. :D Carry on.

    :)
  • floridabob1floridabob1 Posts: 1,190
    RE: 50
    I was just thinking about the battery thing.
    Here in South Florida the heat must eat up batteries.
    Every care that I have owned goes through batteries in about 3 years. It doesn't matter if I change it using the best battery made or the cheapest. They all seem to have the same life.
    The crazy thing about my past car, an Infinity Q45, was that when the battery started to go the computer caused everything in the car to work improperly. One headlight would work while the other would not. The engine sensors would have the engine run rough, etc.
    The simple act of changing the battery would correct all of the problems even though the battery test came out OK.
  • cobrazeracobrazera Posts: 352
    Not to change the subject, but . . has anyone ever heard of an original Ford battery lasting for more than seven (7) years? My 1999 Mustang Cobra has about 21K miles on it and still has the original battery and air filter on it.

    I sold my 2001 Tahoe last year at 65K miles and it still had the original battery and air filter also. If anyone thinks after that mileage that the filter was restrictive, it towed a 10,000 pound trailer back and forth to Florida from Michigan ( over the Smokie mountains ), on six separate occassions and never lacked for power from the stock 5300 motor.
This discussion has been closed.