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Comments
If she is currently a Florida resident and she can prove that then she may be able to not pay CA tax. Right now, she lives in CA and there is no way around this.
As a former So. Californian I can't believe how they are taxing people! A 9.75% sales tax AND a state income tax!
And they are still broke!
Don't get me going on the reasons why this has happened!
The county with the (aggregate) 9.75% state sales tax is Alameda.
CA is so called BROKE, and getting broker (sic) by the 5 mins !!! :lemon:
I'm afraid CA is doomed. At this point, the damage is irreversable. Sp sad.
June: Dealer offers $x for Honda.
July: Manufacturer to dealer incentive has increased by $250. Dealer should be offering $x - $250. If dealer is not, then redredrabbit knows he has more room to haggle.
Logical.
Loved my new car
Great experience today at DCH Academy Honda in Old Bridge, NJ.
Nice atmosphere, low pressure, very professional.
Here's what I ended up paying in terms of a breakdown
Starting from MSRP and Destination of $18,965, here is the deal I got.
$15,495 for the Car
$ 710 for the destination Fee
$ 200 for the remote starter
-----------------
$16,405
That includes $1000 discount from Honda to the dealer.
Add in 7% tax, $199 document fees (lowest I have seen), $7.50 tire fee, and $147 title/registration fee (I kept my plates) + some accessories for a little over $100 and I walked out the door for....
$17,958
Highly recommend the dealership.
Thanks for all the help on this forum.
Destination : 670
No Rebate, no trade.
Invoice : 15757.6
Tax + Tags : 603.4
Processing : 89
I'm currently in the process of chasing prices for a Civic LX-S and a Coupe EX in the same area, with many of the same dealerships. Most of all, I wanted to thank you for an extremely informative and helpful post. Odd though, the first quotes I've received from Tysons, Coleman, and Ourisman are not entirely competitive. I wonder if you could elaborate on how you worked down a quote 'legitimately', so as to begin to play them off each other?
Thanks!
Cheers,
N.
To jykm or anyone else willing to look at the offers I have.
Dealer 1:
09 Honda Civic LX (no added options)
Offer: 16,443 + TTL
OTD: 177xx (I have my own plates).
- Bonus 1 - Dealer has "lifetime powertrain" warranty if the car is serviced *exactly* as the manual recommends (which I do, religiously). Car does not have to be serviced at their dealership. Don't know how valuable this is; warranty has $100 deductible.
- Bonus 2- Dealer is offering free oil changes if all servicing is done at their dealership (dealership is far away enough that I'd probably never cash this in because I'd miss one and they'd have an excuse to back out of this part of the deal).
Dealer 2 -
09 Honda Civic LX (no added options)
Offer: $16,113 + TTL
OTD: I forgot the number, I assume ~300 less than Dealer 1.
Bonus - A couple of free oil changes.
Thoughts? Please evaluate my offers and provide feedback. Thanks!
good luck
--jjf
I'm not sure it was a great price but seemed to be at the time (mid June). So far am pleased with the car.
1987 Chevy Beretta has 136,000 miles and some rust. The brakes felt damp (small line where it seeps out a connector) - flange ends of brake lines. Asking $750. New battery, air filter, manifold.
I would get a second opinion on those ball joints. They almost never go bad.
Just make sure the timing belt has been replaced. You have to do these every 90,000 miles on those othrwise it can break and trash the engine.
I am glad you found my experience helpful!
It is a rule rather than an exception for the first round of quotes you receive to be less than attractive. Do not be put off by that though - the second round will be so much better.
When dealers send out quotes, they have to strike the right balance between a quote that's too high (and will scare the customers away) and one that's too low (that won't make them much money). I was amazed to see just how many quotes of $15,900 +/- $50 (dest. included, everything else extra) for the LX coupe I've gotten. Apparently that was the "sweet spot" quote to send out last month.
.
Do not discount a dealership just because they hit you with a "high ball" quote at first. They very well might be the dealership that will give you the most attractive price in the end. You just have to give them that chance.
Here is how I dealt with receiving a quote that was too high for my liking (which was every quote I've initially gotten): an email with a counter offer designed to reveal who is more willing to compete on price than the rest.
Rough template of my email (please modify as you see fit):
"Hello [insert salesman's name],
Thank you for your prompt response.
Based on the research I've conducted it appears that it is quite possible to purchase a new Civic [insert trim: DX/LX/EX Sedan/Coupe automatic/manual) for roughly $xx,xxx with the destination included as well as such basics as wheel locks and splash guards. I would be very interested in receiving a quote for this amount (incl. destination) with the [insert optional equipment/accessories you really want] installed.
Is that a price you can get me to?
Originally I wanted to wait for the [insert future event such as end of the year/end of the month/Honda Clearance/release of a new model/new model year/etc] but I would like to make my purchase sooner in order to [insert a reasonable cause: get my favorite color/get my desired trim level/buy in time for an anniversary/etc]. It is thus my intention to purchase this vehicle [insert a short time frame you'll buy in if the price is right: in 2 days/this week/before the end of this month/etc].
Regards,
[your name]"
Some dealers will not reply at all. Some will give you a lower quote (but not as low as you had wanted) with a hint they might lower the price even further if you come to their dealership in person. Some will say you are being unrealistic. And then some will accept your offer.
Once you obtain several acceptances, it is time to start visiting the dealerships in person. The negotiation process is not done yet, of course. Better prices await! Remember, in your email you've never committed yourself to buying at the quote they provide. What you said is "Can you give me this quote?" and indicated a time frame for when you'd like to make your purchase.
Now that you are at the dealer, you are no longer just an abstract internet lead. You are an actual person with a wallet in your pocket and a pen in your hand. It's been my impression that showing up in person and saying "I'll be signing the paperwork today if you can sell me a car at the price I want" will show the dealer that you are serious and will motivate the salesperson and their manager to do their best to earn your business.
Now it is time to reveal to the dealer that you have several other (identical) quotes from other dealers who have decided to accept your emailed counter-offer. A Civic is not an Acura NSX - all dealers have them in stock and all dealers have a variety of colors and trims available. Let your dealer know: you are ready to buy but now you need them to do something to distinguish themselves from the rest the pack. You can ask for anything: an additional accessory (they are very pricey when bought separately from the car but a dealer gets them at prices significantly below retail), LoJack, an extended warranty for half (or less than) the usual price (I don't consider them to be worth it for Hondas at all but it's an option to consider), free oil changes/tire rotations/alignments for a year/2 years/3 years/etc or even an additional discount.
It is important to be firm. It's best to make up your mind on what extras/value-added services you want the dealer to include with the car before you come in. The only real way to know whether or not you are asking for too much (other than knowing someone who works in the business and has up to date knowledge of all the relevant numbers) is to visit multiple dealerships. If after prolonged negotiations the dealer sees that you are ready to walk and still doesn't give you the price/options/accessories that you want for the price that you want, it is probably a sign that you need to re-adjust your requests when you are making your next stop.
Bets of luck!
- Alex
P.S. Also check out Sport Honda - I've never visited them in person but based on the quote they gave me and the feedback on this forum it appears that they are quite price-competitive.
Did you by any chance have a trade-in? Thanks for the effort and info.
-RRR
You will probably end up paying more from the small percentage of stores that will respond.
According to the CA.gov (or was that CA.bankrupt :mad: )
Contra Costa County is @ 9.25%.
MSRP with dest was $20,775. I followed a bit milder version of the method jjh220 proposes; I got internet quotes from 5 dealers. They all were within say $100 of $18100 with destination. One gave me a "today only" price of 17,750 or so. I shopped that to another dealer on the phone and got him to beat it, shopped that new offer to a 3rd on the phone who beat it, and brought that back to the first "today only" dealer who could only match that last price (17,400), but could also offer to match my credit union's best finance rate (4.99%) without me having to go drive around to the credit union. They also got the best reviews in the area on dealerrater.com. I decided to go for it there, since the dealers were becoming much less willing to budge at that point so I don't think there was too much room left.
-ccm
I did have a trade-in - a '99 Accord Coupe (it will be missed).
I used a guide called Galves (www.galves.com) in order to come up with a value for my car. It does require a subscription (daily, weekly or monthly) but it is definitely money well spent. I consider Galves to be miles and bounds more useful (and accurate) than Kelly Blue Book, in large part because it is so widely used by the dealers themselves.
My strategy on the trade-in:
Look up your car on Galves.
Stick to the "Galves trade-in value" during your negotiations. If your car is so clean that you can eat off its floor, ask for the "Galves market ready value".
But....
Keep this in mind. A trade in value is just another variable in the overall car buying equation. It is not nearly as important as commonly thought.
The equation:
Price of the new car you are buying - how much the dealer gives you for your trade = Price you actually pay
The first number is meaningless. The second number is meaningless. The only number that actually matters is the third number.
Let me explain how I see it. Suppose a dealer buys a car from Honda for $9,999. He puts it on the lot with a shiny "$14,000" sticker on it. You come in and bring by your Geo Metro as a trade-in. The dealer looks at it and thinks "I can only sell it for $1000, this is what that Geo worth to me".
How do you get the best deal?
Situation A. You offer the dealer $9000 for the new car and you agree to the dealer's valuation of $1000 for your Geo (which is actually its "true" worth).
Dealer's profit: $1.
Situation B. You demand more for your Geo - $2,000 ($1k more than it's worth, but you might or might not know that - it doesn't matter either way). The "extra" $1,000 can only come from one place - the dealer's profit from the new car. You now only have to get the dealer to come down to $10,000 to get a deal just as excellent as that in the previous case (Situation A).
Dealer's profit: $1.
To put it in different terms, you might as well ask $1 for your trade in all cases, no matter what it is, how many miles it has or what condition it is in. It can be a Geo Metro or a Ferrari Enzo - makes no difference. As long as all the dealers you go to give you that $1, there is no math left to be done. All you have to do is compare the prices the dealers give you - lowest price wins. If this sounds too extreme, just ask for the Galves value. The trick is simple - going to multiple dealerships and asking them to beat their competitors' prices is the most straight forward way of getting the lowest price possible.
:confuse: Did my rumblings make any sense? Let me know!
- J
P.S. I just reread my post and realized I might have sounded borderline patronizing from time to time; if so, my apologies - that was not my intention.
The reason I asked if you had a trade-in is that your "price paid" for the new car seemed unusually hot. Now, knowing that you did indeed have a trade-in, it's near impossible to decipher how hot a deal you really did achieve, and your posts could be a bit misleading to potential buyers who are trying to figure how much they should be paying for a new civic LX. I think you should have mentioned that you had a trade-in from the beginning. Your advice on how to negotiate was very helpful, though. Thanks.
Out of 12 dealerships that I've sent my counter-offer to, all but 2 sent out a meaningful reply. Also, out of those 12 dealers, 4 (one third) accepted my counter offer. One third does not seem like such a small percentage to me.
Based on my examination of the quotes I've received as well as the prices other have posted for a comparably equipped vehicle, I do not see the basis for your assertion.
Could I have done better? I do not believe so, at least not meaningfully so. Perhaps another $50 or $75, perhaps nothing at all. It didn't seem important for me to find out. I guess it's true what they say: "if you think you good a good deal, you did".
The reason I never mentioned it was that the fact that what I got for it was precisely the amount Galves indicated. The age and mileage of my Accord leave no doubt that it will be going straight for the auction (thus the dealer wouldn't have given me more than its "natural" worth in hopes of making some extra profit during retail).
Just as notable, I've received all 4 quotes for $15,500 (dest. included but not tax, tags or $100 doc fee) without mentioning the fact that I had a trade-in at all. For these reasons, I believe the price I have attained is quite possible to duplicate (assuming the incentives this month haven't gotten worse) without a trade-in.
MSRP: $18925 (incl destination)
without any accessories
Price paid
Base price: $15614
With TTL (5% tax), OTD price $16800
I asked for price quotes and did negotiations through internet.
Once the price was agreed, the dealer asked for $500 DP to secure the deal.
The next day, we went to the dealer and tested drive the car with the color that we wanted. We were happy with the car (it was still covered with plastics and only 4M). We took care of the payment on the same day and got the car in the next business day. The dealer was professional and we were happy to have business with them. At the delivery, my wife found a tiny scratch on the door and they took care of it immediately at their body shop.
They gave me $1000 for my old 1997 Civic EX coupe 5 speed with 127,000. KBB and NADA were pointing at between $1300 and 2000 for it in the rough to average shape it was in (minor body damage on most panels, needed rear brakes, CV joints were clicking softly and close being needed, interior was clean with a couple pieces of fabric worn through/busted seams and had a recent CD/MP3 player) Before I traded my car, I talked with a couple mechanic friends of mine to see what they thought and if I ought to be getting more given the state of my trade. The one that gave me a price (I didn't tell him the dealer's quote first) after seeing it said he could give me $1000 for it for him to resale it. Looking at craigslist showed people asking mid-2000's for fairly similar cars, though I don't really know their condition. I figure they are getting knocked down to about $2000 for a private party deal.
Note, MA has a law that requires the owner to warranty the car he's selling for 30 days, even a 12 year old one. So, without knowing the details of the law, it appears that if the new owner were to come back a week after buying it and say "hey these brakes are bad and I need new ones" then I'd be obligated to pay or allow him to return me the car for a full refund. So selling a used car in MA as a private party deal is less attractive than in other states.
On the whole, I think I would have been able to get say $1200 for it from the dealer had I played them a bit better, but I don't think it was an unreasonable deal given in the local market.
-ccm
Just don't believe everything you read on the internet.
Carry on...
Really? I've never heard of Galves except on thse forums.
We certainly don't use it.
We go more by Mainheim auction results. These show what the cars ae relly going for in real world numbers. The market is funny and it can change quickly.
However, you may want to calculate the opportunity cost of your free time on the weekend before you spend it all for that last hundred bucks. FYI, I was able to go from requesting bids online to signing on the car within about 7 hours in one day.
How do you deal with a dealer who won't give you a counter offer, but a "yes, I can beat that quote" type answer? I'm having trouble getting these guys to battle each other with quotes.
Thanks,
RRR
If you make that offer, you won't be taken seriously.
I just bought an 2009 EX a couple of days ago in Westchester, NY for $19,768 OTD with splash guards.
Here's the breakdown:
price: 18,226
tax: 1,344
plates: 131
ny inspect: 10
tire fee: 12
dmv: 45
Another dealer offered me 17,700 but they were farther away and seemed shady; didn't know if they were gonna tack on more "dealer" fees. Of the 10 other dealers I emailed with the 17,700 offer, half of them said they couldn't do it, and half said "Sure, but you'll have to come in". Not too sure what I'd be in for, but I definitely think you can get prices lower once your at the dealership and show that you're a serious buyer.
Thanks to everyone here who posted their experiences and numbers. There a wealth of info here that made buying my first car a whole lot easier!
The last dealer, the one I bought from - call them dealer A, I noticed had bought billboards on the road outside of one of the biggest Honda dealers in town (dealer
Possibly the NY/NJ market is a bit different than Boston? I wouldn't let just one or two get you down though. See if you can tell which dealers are hungriest for the deal and see if you can work them.
Now that I've read this forum, I wish I got wheel locks thrown in for the alloys - it totally didn't occur to me! I'd get the dealer you go with to throw them in too.
-ccm
I think you lose a ton of leverage once you go into the dealer in person - they have you somewhat trapped and you can't just stop dealing with them and call the next dealer to quote so easily. There's a balance though, since you're there, they see you as a real live prospect with cash, so if you play right they might do everything they can to avoid having you leave. However, you play by their rules in the dealership (have you "wait for the sales manager to review your offer" while they really are just chatting with each other or having a smoke while you're sweating at the salesrep's desk). You have also implicitly said that you think their internet/phone offer is acceptable or close to it by showing up in the dealership after internet/phone haggling.
-ccm
Where is your dealership located? As I understand it, Galves is widely adopted in the Northeast of the country. I do believe they update their prices weekly (but don't quote me on that).
isellhondas, could you take a look into the Manheim database and see what a '99 Accord Coupe EX V6 (w/ leather) and 152k miles in a "below average" condition is sold for? It'd be interesting to know how close the two sources are to one another.
Cheers,
J.
I am from New England too
you'll be better off buying a LX civic, or making an offer of $17.999 D.O to be realistic.
or go to toyota and try to get a base corolla, manual, you'll be closer to that one
you'll be better off buying a LX civic, or making an offer of $17.999 D.O to be realistic.
or go to toyota and try to get a base corolla, manual, you'll be closer to that one
The plain DX comes with neither but I don't think they even make these anymore.
I never sold one when they were available.