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Lexus IS 300 SportCross

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    dardenkoadardenkoa Member Posts: 65
    i love the new debadged look. very clean. when i removed the "Lexus" first, i thought about keeping the "IS 300" and remove the "L". but i decided to remove the "IS 300" instead for better balance visually.

    i do like the "L", but i dislike the bright silver. it is too shiny with the black. i am considering getting the black pearl "L" in its place.

    i have always wanted to debadge my ex-bmw since i saw one debadged on the road. it just looks a lot cleaner.

    i am a believer now! lexus has more than exceeded my expectations and certainly deserves to be one of the top luxury car makers in the world!

    oh yeah, since it is hard to see pictures of the sportcross, i posted my pictures here: http://www.dtwang.net/lexus/images

    you can see the debadged look. i think that even if i removed the "L" from the back, the car still screams Lexus just from its beauty and design. when a car looks this great, it will grab attention with or without the marque. there's just nothing like it.

    :-)
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    wale_bate1wale_bate1 Member Posts: 1,982
    That looks really nice, big D! Very clean indeed.

    I think, though, that I'm going to chuck the "L". Somehow the added mystery of "what the hell is it?" is just too good to pass up!
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    dardenkoadardenkoa Member Posts: 65
    i hear you wale_bate1!

    it's so very tempting...
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    SylviaSylvia Member Posts: 1,636
    let's lighten up on the language a little. Thanks!
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    brydymondbrydymond Member Posts: 41
    That SC is clean...it makes me want to go to the car wash....

    Its strange that there are small diferences on the stereo from ours with the RDS buttons and 6 disc on the disc door
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    dardenkoadardenkoa Member Posts: 65
    apologies to anyone if my choice of wording was offensive or strong.

    anyway, when my pictures were taken, i just washed it like a couple of hours before the shoot. i have always wanted a black car despite warnings from my friends about how hard it is to keep black cars looking clean. well, my friends were right. black cars look great for about a day (if you are lucky) after washing it. but it sure looks like a million bucks the first 5 minutes after washing it though.

    i guess i will be washing my car lots.
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    wale_bate1wale_bate1 Member Posts: 1,982
    It wasn't and WE weren't offended.

    Yeah, black paint is a booger to deal with. But, as you've witnessed, it looks SO sharp freshly laundered! It's also a great color for the SC, IMO.

    Have to say that of all the colors I've seen on an IS, that new Bluestone is my #2 favorite, right behind the no-longer-available orange from the first year.
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    brydymondbrydymond Member Posts: 41
    I was not offended by your comments....more in awe of how clean your car is...I need a detail...
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    dardenkoadardenkoa Member Posts: 65
    yeah, i really like the new blue color, indigo ink pearl, as well for the IS300 series. the graphite looks very nice as well. from time to time, i do wonder what if i got another color...then all those thoughts vanish into thin air and a big smile streches across my face as soon as i get the car washed.
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    dardson1dardson1 Member Posts: 696
    A pretty good friend who manages the local Lexus dealership says the SportCross is no longer available. It was a brief encounter at the grocery store so I did not press for details; but he said he hasn't had one in 18 months and that Lexus found it (the wagon) didn't fit in their product mix. ConsumerReport claims the SportCross is no longer imported.
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    jmessjmess Member Posts: 677
    Scroll back about 100 posts or so and you will see that it isn't true and the person you spoke to must not know very much about the cars they sell.
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    dardenkoadardenkoa Member Posts: 65
    yeah, check the previous posts and you will find that dealerships are often confused about the sportcross.

    just to clear up this issue quickly for you. i picked up my 2004 IS300 SportCross 2 weeks ago...

    if you want pictures...

    check out http://www.dtwang.net/lexus/images
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    wale_bate1wale_bate1 Member Posts: 1,982
    Hello?

    Anybody out there?

    Happy holidays y'all!
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    riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    I was pleased to see some SportCross in south Florida area (Miami-Ft L) when I was vacationing there in November. Believe I saw two or three. But this car just doesn't sell enough to generate a ton of people who know about it, are interested in it, or own it. Lexus needs to advertise and market it more aggressively.
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    wale_bate1wale_bate1 Member Posts: 1,982
    There are two other SXs in my locale. I see a silver/black twin to mine occasionally at or around Orchard Supply. There is a yellow one I spot regularly on the morning commute coming the other way.

    Yeah, Lexus should have thrown some marketing behind it. I still get people stopping to comment that they didn't even know Lexus made a wagon...
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    jmessjmess Member Posts: 677
    Its not too surprising to see how many concept cars and future production cars are using the SportCross styling concepts. The folks that designed the Gita were a little a head of the curve. Over the next 5 years there will be a flood of saloon type cars with styled back ends instead of the traditional bread box shape.

    I would be surprised if we ever see another true sports wagon/hatch offering like the SportCross from Lexus again. I keep expecting to see some morph of the RX330 or ES330 into a wagon. I would half expect them to de-truck and lower the RX330 along with changing some body panels. They could then offer AWD and a substantial price increase.
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    riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    In today's Omaha World-Herald the Lexus of Omaha dealer is advertising two CPO IS300s. A black 2001 IS300 sedan for $26,440 (in the big full-color ad) or $25,480 (in the small b/w ad). A silver 2002 IS300 SportCross for $26,480 (in both ads). Both have sunroof and heated seats. Interesting that the newer '02 is so close in price to the '01. Too bad no mileage is listed. Either he wants to much for the '01 or the SportCross are just plain hard to sell.
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    dardenkoadardenkoa Member Posts: 65
    well, i shoulda gotten the all season high performance tires. kinda late now. i discovered just how badly the standard summer tires that came with the sportcross perform in the snow this past week, two snow storms.

    first snow storm...

    the sportcross with the standard tires won't even get up a small slope out of my apartment complex's parking lot. there was less than an inch of snow on the ground. in the past, i was always able to get out of the parking lot with my bmw with all season tires even with 3-4 inches of snow. b/c as long as i can get out of my parking lot, the main roads are clear!

    so i was stuck. could not go to work or do anything else until the snow melted.

    now, it's snowing with freezing rain. i made it to work and now i am stuck at work (a hotel). really sucks. my day off today too. i get to spend the next 24-48 hours at the hotel waiting for the snow to melt again...

    well, for those of you who are thinking about getting a sportcross and live in an area that snows, GET ALL SEASON HIGE PERFORMANCE TIRES!

    when there's ANY snow on the ground, you will be stuck with the standard tires that came with the car.

    unless you have another car, be sure to change over to ALL SEASON for the winter time or else you will be stuck and going no where...

    Yes, they need to make a AWD with ALL SEASON tires for the SportCross.

    Yes, they should make ALL SEASON tires a standard for the NorthEast region. it is just more practicle that way.

    Sure, you have a ton of fun in the spring/summer with the summer tires; however, you can't go anywhere at all in the winter? Unpracticle!
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    riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    dardenkoa... They are the only way to go. The all-seasons are mediocre in comparison to dedicated winter tires. If traction is critical, get winter tires.

    You have to use the right tools for the right jobs and conditions.

    There is nothing impractical about changing over to winter tires in winter. That is the way people did it for decades before mediocre all-seasons came out in the '70s.

    You can't blame the car, tires, or Lexus. There isn't any reason why anyone shouldn't know that summer tires are NOT to be used in winter. That is user failure, not tire failure. There are dedicated boards here at Edwards and elsewhere. This subject is discussed repeatedly on about every RWD car board. There are tons of articles each season in about every major automotive press source. Just check out the pages of ads for winter tires that run in the Nov-Feb issues.
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    dardenkoadardenkoa Member Posts: 65
    yeah, i understand what you are saying riez. the best way to go would be getting an extra set of 16" rims with snow tires on them.

    however, for those of us living in apartment complexes, it is very hard to find the extra room to store an extra set of rims with tires. just not enough room.

    plus, i am planning to move to california in 2004 so i didn't want to buy a set of winter or all season tires just for one season.

    i guess it's bad timing for me and it seems that it's gonna be a bad winter this year...sigh. just my luck.

    for places like virginia, it snows but it does not snow like maine or new england. all season would certainly provide enough traction in the winter time.

    well, i came so close getting a second set of tires but i could not manage to find a place to store the summer tires during the winter.

    if lexus wants the consumers to buy a second set of tires for the winter anyway...why didn't they just provide all season and then the consumers can get a second set of summer tires.

    don't get me wrong, i like the way summer tires drive when the weather is great. they do perform very very well.

    lessons learned...

    Must buy a set of winter tire package to go with your sportcross if you live in the North East.

    if you don't have room or don't want to spend the extra money to store and buy a second set of tires...SportCross is not for you?
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    dardenkoadardenkoa Member Posts: 65
    the SportCross is supposed to be a veratile vehicle...a WAGON...so it just seems unfitting to put summer tires on it that's all.

    Most Wagon buyers are looking for utility and versatility...if the buyers want high speed/handling performance, the IS300 Sedan and coupes are the ones for them.

    it's no wonder that more people are buying BMW, Audi, and Subaru wagons...

    perhaps it's not lexus' fault after all not marketing the SportCross...

    The SportCross just does not fit the Wagon market segment nor the sedan segment...

    just my $0.02.
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    riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    dardenkoa... It is a HIGH performance all around serious sport wagon/touring. I concur with what you said if it refers to mundance station wagons like a Ford Taurus. But not the IS300 SportCross.
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    riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    dardenkoa... You wrote, "Most Wagon buyers are looking for utility and versatility...if the buyers want high speed/handling performance, the IS300 Sedan and coupes are the ones for them."

    At least in USA, there isn't an IS300 coupe.

    I thought buyers of IS300 SportCross wanted "high speed/handling performance."

    Have you considered any of the following wagon-like vehicles:

    Pontiac Vibe (FWD or AWD)
    Toyota Matrix (FWD or AWD)

    Believe they come standard with A/S tires.

    There are also lots of FWD wagons out there and some AWD wagons.

    The Ford Taurus/Mercury Sable would give you a ton of room and certainly won't be mistaken for having "high speed/handling performance." If versatility is critical, don't overlook the plethora of minivans out there. Latest Toyotas and Hondas are reportedly quite nice. :)
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    wale_bate1wale_bate1 Member Posts: 1,982
    Well, really, the only utility one looks for in a wagon this size (compact) is that which is over and above the sibling sedan.

    In this country, a compact sport wagon isn't sold on its utility factor; that's just icing on the cake. The 325it isn't regarded as a family car, neither should this little gem. Given that wagons routinely have more equal weight distribution than their direct sedan counterparts (albeit with a small weight penalty to pay), which often results in superior handling, there is every reason to suggest that people buy them for their sporting abilities. I know I did!

    I also find the wagon/hatch styling more enticing on the IS than its sedan iteration. It's a cleaner, more coherent design as a wagon, IMO.

    And then there's that utility icing. It's just easier to live a busy life with a wagon than a sibling sedan, IMO.

    Hot wagons aren't exactly out of vogue. Mazda's P5 is tracking to sell pretty close to last year's mark of over 68K units. That ain't hay, brother!

    Toyota missed the boat on this one, big time, IMO. Sales are tiny, IMO, because A) few really know about it, and B) there aren't any on the lots for people to try or just go "Wow, I didn't know they made that"...
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    brydymondbrydymond Member Posts: 41
    This thread has gone downhill...

    First of all if you bought a SportCross for utility you obviously know very little about cars.

    Anyone who is complaining about having to put All Seasons or Winter Tires in the Lexus is also very mis-informed about the spirit of the Sport Cross and its abilities.
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    riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    But, to be fair, just read boards dealing with RWD sport sedans like the BMW 3 or 5 Series, Lincoln LS, IS300, etc. Lots of discussion this time of year about summer vs winter vs all-season tires. Never ceases to amaze me how we seem doomed to let history repeat.

    Lessons endlessly repeated: If you have RWDer and it snows, you'll be best off with winter tires. NEVER use summer tires on snow or ice. All-season tires are normally mediocre year round. Many people are too lazy to use the best tires for their car at the right times of year.
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    wale_bate1wale_bate1 Member Posts: 1,982
    Or some, as one of our brethren here, simply have no space to store the extra four, rest of the year.

    I count myself lucky. I live with rain three months out of the year, and if I'm going to encounter snow, it's by choice! So I can run summer tires year round.
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    jmessjmess Member Posts: 677
    I now have 3 sets of extra wheels with snow tires sitting in the garage for 3 different cars. So far no snow.

    We need some form of time share deal with some place like New Zealand with opposite seasons so we can swap tires?
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    brydymondbrydymond Member Posts: 41
    I would say if you live anywhere that snow is a regular occurance, Northeast, denver, Canada...get snow tires. Logic prevails. It should not matter if you have RWD or not...even guys I know with Audi Quattro dump their summers for snows in the winter. Summer tires are NOT made for snow or ice...Period

    Also...my dealer stores my summers/winters for free...Ask
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    jmessjmess Member Posts: 677
    The logic I apply for snow tires is my insurance deductible is $500. So if I can avoid a trip to the body shop I have pretty much paid for the snow tires. The wheels will always have some value so when you sell the car you can sell the wheels and possibly what's left of the tires.
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    wale_bate1wale_bate1 Member Posts: 1,982
    Speaking of quattro, there is a new S4 Avant here at work and a few weeks back, I took a little ride. If there is no next gen SportCross, I begin to get an inkling where I might be headed...;)

    Also, I saw a pic on the net of the new E60 touring (545it), and what Bangle can't seem to accomplish with sedans (IMO), he appears to be able to with a wagon. HOT!

    dardenkoa: don't let 'em get to ya man. Get yerself a set of decent all-seasons (there ARE some decent ones out there, not summer-tire sticky, but decent) for the 17's and stash some quick-cleats under the board in back for the really bad days!
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    r0bertbr1anr0bertbr1an Member Posts: 19
    Dardenkoa,
    I agree with wale_bate1. Don't let these guys berate you for not having a double garage with room for extra tires (the mini-van comments were definitely out of order). I'm not sure how you bought your car in Richmond and got summer tires, and I had mine shipped from Florida with all-seasons. I guess I'm fortunate that Richmond doesn't see too much snow. I'm sure my all-seasons' will perform better in an inch or two of snow than the summers will, but I also know that there are limitations when it comes to cornering on a dry day too. Opinions are like ... well you know, everybody's got one. I have to agree with the others on two things, though. The SportCross is a pretty substantial sports sedan/wagon and shouldn't be confused with a Passat, Jetta, Matrix, etc.

    The other thing is the utility. I find myself at the bare minimum of acceptable utility, but I loved the car so much that I'm making it work for me. Sure I can't take a load of junk to the dump, and my fairly large dog doesn't care for it as much as the Rodeo I had, but it's MY car, not the family hauler. If my wife wants an SUV or Minivan, and I'm making the payments, then she can drive it. She loves her '02 Accord Coupe and I love my '03 SportCross, and my son and my dog fit just fine in the back together. My point is, 99% of the time, I'm driving to and from work or elsewhere either by myself or with my wife and son. About four or five times a year, we take our dog out of town (about 100 miles away) with us. She can frown at me in the rear-view mirror all she wants, but I ain't drivin' no more SUVs.

    I suggest that you buy some all seasons. I've seen some Continentals for about 110/130 (front/rear) a piece installed. If you're not driving like a madman, you should be good to go. Once you get to Cali, put your summers back on. Good luck.
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    dardenkoadardenkoa Member Posts: 65
    sorry that i have not replied, been busy.

    anyway, i do like the SportCross very much. I got the SportCross for various reasons. I did my research. I threw down my hard earned $30,000+ on the Lexus SportCross with one payment. I could of gotten a BMW, Benz, Audi, Toyota Matrix, Mazda, pick up truck, mini van or whatever. I chose the SportCross due to its looks, quality, and various other reasons. i figured that I would just have to deal with the summer tires in the Winter time.

    I was simply opining that Lexus should make A/S tires a standard for SportCross and IS300 Sedans in regions that it snows. btw, I know that Lexus does not make a IS300 coupe. It was my bad rhetoric. I mean that people should get the IS300 sedan or coupes such as G35 or BMW 2 door, RX8...you know?

    Anyway, It just makes sense for a car classified as a "wagon" to come with all season tires in snow bound regions. Then people can go get a second set of Summer Performance tires if they so choose to. They won't be forced to get the summer tires though. I am not downing the SportCross at all. Just the shoes that it came with.

    SportCross is a great car. I love it. No Lie. no regrets. But a great car means nothing when it cannot be driven unless you own a three car garage and own 4 sets of tires and rims for each season.

    I will not respond to negative and ignorant responses on this board with further negative comments from myself. i enjoy reading intelligent responses from Wale_bate, JMess, RoberBr1an, and the likes. that's what I call discussing and exchanging viewpoints.

    In fact, I think this will be my last post here on this board. I like to share views and discuss cars...maybe i do not know anything about cars. does that make me a bad person? what's wrong with mini-vans anyway? They are great for families. Hey, mini-vans are better than SUVs imho.

    oh yeah, Roberbr1an...

    thanks for the support. BTW, do not go to Lexus of Richmond. I am quite disappointed with everything they have done so far. The sales rep from Lexus of Richmond had the audacity to call me today and compalin to me about the survey I filled out for the Lexus Headquarter. I gave Lexus of Richmond an average rating. I said the Sales Reps did not know about the SportCross model and was ill informed about its product line. They were pushing in negotiation and etc. But I did enjoy other parts of the dealship. The overall rating was not great, just so-so.

    Lexus of Richmond dared to call and complain AFTER they have taken my money??

    That's how Lexus of Richmond treat its paying customers.

    I will be heading up to the Alexandria Dealership where you got your car from now on.

    That's all I gotta say about that.
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    riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    dardenkoa... You write, "It just makes sense for a car classified as a "wagon" to come with all season tires in snow bound regions. Then people can go get a second set of Summer Performance tires if they so choose to. They won't be forced to get the summer tires though. I am not downing the SportCross at all. Just the shoes that it came with."

    The SportCross is NOT just a "wagon". It is a serious all around sport wagon. A Ford Taurus is just a "wagon". The SportCross really doesn't compete against just wagons.

    Most all-season tires aren't that good in snow or ice. That is why they make winter tires. If you need winter tires, you should get them. Then switch back to summer tires, which also outperform the all-season tires in the other 3 seasons.

    Bit like wearing basketball shoes to go hiking or vice versa. You can do it, but you won't be at peak performance.
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    dardenkoadardenkoa Member Posts: 65
    i understand the difference and the necessity to get snow tires for the winter time and summer tires for high performance driving.

    the bottom line is i have no place to store an extra set of tires and rims at this time.

    believe me, once i get a house with a garage and if i were still living in a snow bound region, i would be getting a set of snow tires on 16" rims and probably upgrade to 18" rims with high performance tires for the summer fun time.

    hopefully, i won't have to worry about snow for a long time after i move to california this summer. and then i can tell all those snow bound people with the sportcross that they need to buy an extra set of snow tires and rims for the winter time while i don't have to worry about snow ever with my new 18" rims and high performance all fun tires. :P

    anyway, lots of misunderstanding about the summer versus winter tire issue on the sportcross. i understand the performance issues. i understand that sportcross is more of a sport luxury sedan with a hatchback.

    i was only complaining that i don't have the room to store an extra set of tires which i desparately need to drive in the winter time. it would just have been much easier for only me if MY sportcross came with all season tires. that's all.

    well who cares anyway, i won't have to deal with snow after this season.
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    dardenkoadardenkoa Member Posts: 65
    Why do so little people buy the SportCross?

    1. Lexus does not market it well and/so not many people know about it.

    2. The consumers who are about to buy "wagons", won't buy the SportCross since like many of you said before, the SportCross is NOT a wagon. The consumers who are looking to buy performance cars with more practicality than real sports cars like Corvettes or Porsches, they check out and buy Sedans or Coupes before they look for something like the SportCross. Since SportCross is such an odd ball and does not belong in any class or market segmentation, the niche becomes very very small.

    SO with very little people looking to buy the SportCross, Lexus does not feel that they can justify the reason to heavily market it. And without marketing it, less people know about it. the cycle goes on and on.

    If the SportCross had the market demand like the Ford F-150, I am sure Lexus will not hesitate like Ford in dumping 200 million plus in marketing it. well, not to mention, the Ford F-Series makes up 20% of Ford's total sales. Ford cannot afford to lose this market dominance.

    However, it is my opinion that Lexus will or should probably discontinue the SportCross soon and make something that is more of a "WAGON" to fulfill market needs. The reality is that Generation Y's demand for Minivans and real WAGONS is on the rise.

    All at the same time, it makes all current SportCross owners just that much more special. :)
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    riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    dardenkoa... You write, "the bottom line is I have no place to store an extra set of tires and rims at this time."

    Don't they have any self-storage lots where you live? I live in a small town of about 5,000 and there is a self-storage lot up the road from me. You can rent garages of varying size. One guy I know stores his '60s muscle car there. Other people rent units that might fit a sofa.

    If you can afford a $30,000 SportCross, you should be able to rent a small space large enough to store 4 tires/rims.

    Also, you don't have any friends, family, co-workers, neighbors, etc. who have a basement or garage and would let you store some tires?
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    riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    dardenkoa... You write, "it is my opinion that Lexus will or should probably discontinue the SportCross soon and make something that is more of a "WAGON" to fulfill market needs. The reality is that Generation Y's demand for Minivans and real WAGONS is on the rise."

    Due to low sales, you probably are correct about the long-term future of the SportCross. But the demand for minivans and wagons is not that great and has been stagnant for years. Comprises a moderately small about of the total market (thinking around 1 million units or thereabouts out of 15-17 million total). The really big increases in demand have been in SUVs (esp. luxury SUVs) and pickup trucks. That is why Nissan is making its big push into the full-size pickup truck market.

    Lexus already has its share of SUVs that are powering sales. Notice how many SUVs Lexus has. SUVs make up 50% of Lexus sales. Can't imagine Lexus thinking that adding a minivan will boost sales. None of its closest competitors has a minivan (Acura, Infiniti, BMW, MB, Jaguar, etc.). None of them have any pickup trucks. They might remember the Lincoln Blackwood fiasco. Pickup truck buyers are loyal to their marques and want things out of them that luxury and sport marques can't or don't want to provide.
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    nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    summer tire talk, one thing seems clear to me: the dealers should be making more of a point of the fact that the car has summer tires, and that there is a no-cost A/S-tire option. ESPECIALLY in areas that are snowy six months of the year. That way, for customers that are not car experts, at least the awareness will be there that they will be getting a car with tires that won't last all that long and won't be any good in snow or ice. They can make the choice to compromise now or have extra expense later BEFORE they buy the car.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

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    riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    All buyers have to do is...

    1. Look at the sidewall on the tires, or
    2. Read the window sticker, or
    3. Read the brochure, or
    4. Look over the manufacturer's information on the web, or
    5. Research at places like Edmunds, Consumer Guide, etc., or
    6. Read automotive press, or
    7. Ask the dealership.

    Shouldn't take more than a minute or two.

    Now if only I could swap out the mediocre all-season tires that came with my IS300 manual. I'd much rather have a set of summer tires!
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    nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    you are right of course. It might be good if Toyota expanded that window sticker that talks about the short life of the summer tires, and had it include the fact that they are also no good on snow.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

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    riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    nippononly... As I point out above, Toyota and others have readily provided all the information necessary for anyone who wants to check. If you don't check, don't complain. Toyota can't be held responsible for lazy buyers.

    Saying summer tires don't do well in winter is like saying gasoline engines don't like diesel fuel. Does Toyota have a sticker on the fuel filler saying not to put diesel or kerosene or water into the fuel tank?

    I forgot to check the owners manual. Does it say something about the tires? If it does, add another source to my list.
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    nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    not one of the dozen or so people I know who bought cars in the last year would know the difference between summer and A/S tires. All they know is that tires are black and round and the car can't go without them. two of those were Lexus buyers (neither was an SX).

    :-)

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

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    jmessjmess Member Posts: 677
    I agree that most people won't know the difference between tires but do know the difference between different types of cars.

    Another way to look at this is what you would expect by the type of car: a sporty car vs sedan vs suv. Most people would expect a sporty car to have higher performance tires, something less aggressive on the sedan (allseason maybe), and something ready for off road and bad weather on the suv.

    The IS300 was targeted at guys/girls in their mid 20s with some disposable income and with roots in the import performance scene. Not a big market for allseason tires.

    Here is an opinion that will probably be unpopular with some folks in this group. Just like SUVs and 4x4s give people a false sense of security in bad weather. I think allseason tires do the same thing.

    Winter struck pretty hard this week in Portland OR but with lots of warning. During my travels to and from work, the roads were littered with crashed/stalled/stuck SUVs, 4x4s, vans, and cars. Many of these incidents could have been avoided with winter tires. Many of the unfortunates believed that allseason tires or truck tires are good enough. So instead of staying home or chaining up they go out on the snow covered roads with a false sense of security and endanger everyone. The tire makers, marketers, and sellers all contribute to the problem IMHO.
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    dardenkoadardenkoa Member Posts: 65
    reiz you said

    "But the demand for minivans and wagons is not that great and has been stagnant for years. Comprises a moderately small about of the total market (thinking around 1 million units or thereabouts out of 15-17 million total). The really big increases in demand have been in SUVs (esp. luxury SUVs) and pickup trucks. That is why Nissan is making its big push into the full-size pickup truck market."

    yeah, the wagon and minivan market has been stagnant. that's the trend in the past years...however, i am speaking about the future which has no certainty...but according to CNBC "Behind the Wheel" as one example, they are predicting (they could be wrong of course) that Minivan market will pick up in the next few years.

    yes, anyone can see that SUV demand has been driving the market for the past 7-10 years. it started sometime in the mid 90s when the SUV craze took off i think.

    BUT as of now, the SUV market has already become very saturated. this will not last! you can see automakers are beginning to shift and "crossing" models. Although the SUV market will exist, but it is my opinion that it will start to fall in the next 10 years.

    instead, SMALLER SUVs such as the X3, Pacifica (this is more like a short suv crossed with minivan...i dunno, a weird car), and also the cadillac SRX. now, all these new models are not the SUVs as we have came to know such as Explorers and 4Runners. Consumers are changing, Gen Y will soon be taking over the market when they start their own families between 2008-2020. will the Gen Y still buy SUVs or will SUVs lose their appeal...i guess we'll find out soon.

    perhaps all these crossed models will be just big flaps...who knows.

    it is my believe that new consumers are slowly losing interest in SUVs.

    Now as for Nissan and Toyota (V8 Tundra) attacking the pickup market. it is a total diff. market than the SUV market. Why are Japanese auto makers attacking the pickup truck segment...the answer is simple, the time has come for the Japanese to grab some of that huge market share dominated by Ford and Chevy for years and years. and the Japanese think they can do it. To fight back, Ford launched a huge ad campaign for 2004. With Texas being the larget market for pickup trucks, Ford is actually specifically making ads for that State only and allocating millions and millions just for the Texas campaign. Is Ford scared? i doubt it. But Ford is certainly not going to let their market share slip that easily.

    Regardless of what models will last, remain popular, or die off, one trend that will remain for certain for years to come is the demand for more and more horse power...
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    dardenkoadardenkoa Member Posts: 65
    according to the chief economist of the National Automobile Dealers Association (NADA), Paul Taylor, Ph.D...

    ----------------------
    Taylor pointed out that "Crossover" Sport Utility Vehicles, or CUVs, continue to be a key source of strength in the auto retail market. CUVs, which have a unitized car platform, have led sales growth among all vehicles this year, up over 37 percent year-to-date.

    "Consumers are responding to the convenience, space, all-weather capacity and higher fuel mileage that CUVs offer," he said, projecting growth in that market for the rest of the decade.

    Sales of CUVs were up 78 percent in 2000, 87 percent in 2001, 23 percent in 2002, and will likely climb another 40 percent this year, according to Taylor.

    Sales of traditional truck-based SUVs were up 1.3 percent in September over a year earlier, as many people continue to choose true off-road vehicles with towing capacity. "Consumers are making a strong statement that they like their choice of an SUV, despite the many assaults on these vehicles by various special interest groups," he said.

    However, he added that CUV sales will likely overtake truck-based SUV purchases within the next five years, as many new and innovative CUV designs will be coming to market, sustaining overall light vehicle growth.

    --------------------------

    linke to article: http://www.nada.org/Content/NavigationMenu/Newsroom/News_Releases- /20032/ind_10_09_03.htm
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    dardenkoadardenkoa Member Posts: 65
    ahh so i was not using the correct term. when i said minivans and wagons is on the rise, i guess what i meant was all these cross over vehicles which I personally have a hard time classifying b/c they are wagons and minivans but crossed and merged. man! i mean what is a Pacifica anyway? :P

    so at least this is what some experts are "predicting"...CUVs taking over in the future. hey, SportCross is not a CUV...so is it a CPV as in "Crossover Performance Vehicle" or maybe it is a CSV as in "Crossover Sports Vehicle"? :)

    From CSM Insights: http://www.csmauto.com/features.html
    ----------------------------------------

    The minivan concept was not born when Chrysler debut its much hailed Caravan/Voyager/Town and Country in 1983. The "minivan" concept has been around for a long time, it just wasn't always called a minivan. In the 1970s it was called the station wagon; in the 1980's it was called the minivan; in the 1990's it was called the sport utility vehicle; and in the 2000's it will probably be called the crossover vehicle. The name changes but the concept remains the same: practicality. For this decade, that practicality also adds more style, electronics, all-wheel drive, and comfort.

    This new segment of crossover vehicles (comprised of Crossover Utility Vehicles - CUVs and Multi-activity Vehicles - MAVs) and will grow substantially during the next five years. For 2002, the crossover segment accounted for 8.2 percent of the North American light vehicle production. By 2007 that figure will grow to 19.4 percent. Total production volume for the segment will reach 3.4 million units by 2007, up from 1.3 million units in 2002. But while minivans will be one of the losers in this market shift, it will not be the only one. Minivans' sales share in the US market will drop from 7.9% percent in 1999 to 5.5% percent in 2008. But small and midsize cars will also lose share. What won't change, however, is the market's desire for features and functions; comfort and drivability.
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    riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    dardenkoa... If it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck, and looks like a duck...

    You are obsessing over marketing terms. Stick to the basics. We know what a station wagon is. We know what a minivan is. We know what an SUV is. We know what a sedan is. We know what a pickup truck is. We know what AWD is.

    Now Chrysler, BMW, and other marques love to call their latest product some hot new term (SAX, CUV, CPV, "crossover", or whatever). But those are just marketing terms. Yes, there are sometimes vehicles that blur the line, but they are the rare exception and not the rule. Focus is on the rule not the exception.

    Have you noticed how the Pacifica is bombing in the marketplace versus its expectations? Chrysler optioned out the early ones with all the bells and whistles. Early buyers weren't willing to pay the premium, no matter what Chrysler called it.

    The X3 is a small premium SUV. It is at the top end of the small SUV segment, which has models like the Ford Escape, Honda CR-V, Toyota RAV4, etc. The Toyota Highlander and the X5 are both midsize SUVs. One is just a lot more expensive than the other. And I could care less if BMW calls its X3 or X5 a "SAX". Bogus marketing term.

    Adding AWD to a wagon or minivan doesn't make it an SUV. Just makes it an AWD wagon or AWD minivan.
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    r0bertbr1anr0bertbr1an Member Posts: 19
    Apples and oranges and ducks. I would like to make a simple statement as to why I bought the Lexus IS300 SportCross. I love a low fast car that looks good. I demand quality when putting up some big bucks. I needed room for my fairly large dog. Simple enough. There was only ONE vehicle that fit the criteria.

    As for the tire choice complaints, I demanded the all-seasons for several reasons. It doesn't snow very often (if at all) where I live. I have no illusions of being able to drive through three or four-inches of snow with my all-seasons, and I don't intend to. I'd rather take the day off (on the rare occassion that it snows) and go sledding with my son. If I have an emergency, however, I want to know that I can at least get down the road, and I know the summers won't make it (see dardenkoa's previous post). Also, I don't want to spend the extra one or two-grand it would take to have an extra set of tires and wheels. I will say this. I researched the SportCross for at least six-months before buying and was well aware of the "no cost" options that Lexus offered. Even though my car was brought up from Florida with all-season tires already on it, I could easily have had the dealership put summer tires or even sixteens on it, without paying a cent. It's right there in the sales brochure.

    Hopefully, we can all get back to talking about this awesome car instead of bickering about what to classify it and what kind of tires should go on it. Everybody has different reasons for buying this car. That individuality should be respected, not criticized. We all have one thing in common. We all love the SportCross.
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    riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    rObert... You wrote, "I don't want to spend the extra one or two-grand it would take to have an extra set of tires and wheels."

    Where I come from, it doesn't cost $1,000 to get a decent set of snow tires and have them mounted/balanced.

    If you are going to drive the all-season tires on the standard wheels, why would you worry about buying new wheels for the snow tires? Just get the same size.

    Of course, the cost analysis has to take into account that the use of the snows saves miles and life on the stored tires.
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