RWD, six, compact, sport-wagon, leather, well-styled...; those were my criteria. I had two options. I liked this one more.
End of story, for me.
Rubber: I'm going the other way. I believe I have convinced the family CFO (Mrs.) that my acquistion of 17x8 and 17x9 SSR GT1 rims is really just a slight incremental increase in cost over the necessary new rubber coming due, if you think about it the right way.
I think I may go jmess's way with F1's in 235/40-17 and 255/40-17. The stiffer bars may well follow sometime this summer, assuming I can install myself.
Riez, I see your point, but I thought the sidewalls on snow tires had to be a little higher than the low-profile summer/all-season tires. Wouldn't that make it necessary to have 16-inch wheels instead of 17s? I would think a low-profile snow tire would be an oxymoron. If it snowed more than three or four inches right now, I'd have snow piling up on my brake rotors. That was my reason for the two-grand comment. If I put snow tires on, I was assuming I'd need a different size wheel to accomodate the higher sidewall on the tires. And I certainly wouldn't buy any boring off-the-shelf wheels just because it was a temporary (three-month) precaution. Nice wheels are not cheap. I want my car to look sharp 24-7. That's one of the reasons I bought it.
Well, a low profile wouldn't necessarily be an issue in a snow tire, but a narrower tread width is definitely desirable. So since a low-profile tire is generally a wider tire by design, snow tires are generally higher profile.
A decent set of 4 snow tires and cheap set of steel rims won't even cost $1,000, mounted & balanced.
wale_bate is correct. Narrower snow tires are preferred. But I'll pretty much take any dedicated snow tire over an all-season. And notice how the people driving all-seasons don't switch to a narrower tire or ever worry about switching to a narrower tire? Now, why is that?
Well, if I were in a serious snow locale, I might not have this car as a principal year-round ride to begin with, but if I did, I would certainly own snow tires, and I would personally mount them on basic steel rims with a great set of covers (there are some rather attractive ones out there).
Shy of living in, say, Minnetonka or Bismark or Tahoe, but in an area that gets an occasional winter freeze and a perhaps a fair deal of inclement weather, I see no great reason to shy away from high or ultra-high performance 4S tires whatsoever with a set of cleats in the rear storage for heavy drop days. True, you will never achieve the ultimate grip of a max perf summer tire, but A) the car handles and performs beautifully enough that it wouldn't be an issue for most who buy it, and you can always widen the contact patch a bit for spring, summer and fall, with a negligible decrease in winter characteristics. I mean, half to an inch of width in a little light snow dusting won't be real trouble, and anything much deeper, you're going to have use cleats on a 4S regardless of width.
Yeah, it's a compromise, but if we're reading the posts here carefully and not ignoring the circumstances, we all understand that occasionally compromises have to be made. Not like it's the end of the world, nor will it detract much, if at all, from the enjoyment of the car.
For me, well I live where I live by choice and have made a lot of sacrifices to stay here, in part because I can slap on the widest summer rubber I can find (just within reason, of course!)!
For kicks, go read through the 3er topics and see what some of them do for winterizing. Since the Altezza was designed entirely with the 3 in mind, the characteristics and logistics are remarkably similar, IMO.
I have Blizzak LM-22s 205-55-16s for the SportCross on a set of 16x7 alloys. They seem to work well. With trac and snow mode you can get around pretty safely. The nice thing about the LM-22s is the wet and dry handling is better than I thought it would be. The tire noise is louder than stock but not offensive. IMHO a good tire for occasional snow days with dry/wet performance close to a mid range allseason.
I have some 15" Blizzak WS-50s on the wife's 03 Accord and they work well in the slick stuff but dry handling is degraded a bit. Tire noise is noticeable over stock but not offensive. For heavier snow and ice these would be better than the LM-22s IMHO.
I have some 14" Nokian Hakkapeliitta 1s on a Honda Civic with partial pattern studs (50%). If you live where it really snows and sticks for extended periods of time, these tires will get you through just about anything as long as you have some ground clearance. With studs they tend to be a little noisy on dry pavement and the dry/wet handling could be better. The Hakkapeliitta 2s are out now and should be better tire.
sorry reiz, but SUV is also just yet another marketing term that auto makers use to push these type of vehicles back in the 90s. Jeep and Grand Wagoneers began in 1974...it was not until the 90s that it was called a "SUV". marketing terms or not...these so called marketing terms become the "basics".
as you said yourself, "You are obsessing over marketing terms. Stick to the basics. We know what a station wagon is. We know what a minivan is. We know what an SUV is. We know what a sedan is. We know what a pickup truck is. We know what AWD is."
well, you too believe that "SUV" which is just another marketing term back in the 90s is now one of the "basics".
there's a big diff. between CUVs and SUVs. CUVs are built on car chasis versus SUVs which are built on truck chasis. now, that's a big diff. in my book in terms of function and capability.
IMHO, "CUV", a marketing term, will soon become one of the basic categories like "SUV". few years from now, you might just start saying "stay to the basics that we know, SUVs, Station Wagons, Sedans, Coupes, and CUVs". :P
CUVs have come...i believe they will stay...that's just my prediction, nothing more. i might be wrong, i might be right, only time can tell.
for cars, if it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, and walks like a duck is simplifying and cheapening all the diff. between cars.
yeah, the SportCross and the Mazda Protege 5 are very very similar to average onlookers...now we all know that these two vehicles are very different in every way!
when it comes to auto trends and forecasts, i think i will trust the opinions of experts in the industry...yeah, they could be wrong but they sure know a lot more about the industry than me. it is their job after all. plus, it simply makes sense in terms of business...
maybe i am overly "obsessing over marketing terms" as you said. but you must forgive me, i enjoy all aspects of business since i am a MBA. i can't help myself to over analyse any business strategies and moves executed in any industries. a risky move breaks or makes a company.
take Nissan/Infiniti for example, their bold move to push aggressive styling really paid off for them this past year. but it could have gone the other way and totally killed the company. now, that was bold and interesting to me.
and Lexus takes a gamble on the SportCross...didn't really pay off for them even after a couple of years...sigh. a sad thing. a truly great car that deserves more recognition and attention.
yeah, i told the dealership in Richmond that i wanted the no cost All Seaon option...well, that dealership sucks and screwed me on that along with some other things. so that's that to make the long story short.
so yes, i am bitter about the A/S i requested and didn't get especially during my first attempt to drive in less than an inch of snow. perhaps it's not the fault of the Lexus which i was complaining about earlier and just the fault of the dealership.
dardenkoa... I, too, have an MBA. Sometimes term is a new paradigm. Just like the minivan exploded onto the market in the mid-1980s. Same goes for what the Ford Explorer did to the "SUV" market. Sure, the old Cherokee, Intl Harvester Scout, Bronco II, etc. had been around, but they hadn't defined the market or set it on fire. Just study what happened when the initial Explorer exploded onto the sales charts. But once that happened, the term was coined and it still is in general use. The other, newer terms (e.g., SAV) are just marketing adaptations of the established term. Not unlike when a manufacturer tries to give a new term to its minivan. Or look at how prestige marques hate to use the word "station wagon", so they call it an estate, touring, 5-door, etc. But we all know what a "station wagon" is.
I know you posted the offset for the stock 7.5 rims, but I can't find it anywhere. Can you tell me again?
I'm gonna try to get an idea of exactly where the rubber will fall in a width expansion. Tirerack is showing the offset for the rear 17x9 SSR GT1 at +45 and the front 17x7.5 at +48.
The front doesn't really concern me, but the rear is a sizable chunk. Don't want anything outside the verticle line of the fender; this ain't no '84 Camaro...;)
I called my dealer today to check on the status of my car because I saw on the Lexus website that a new round of financing incentives have been offered that won't expire until March 31st 2004, well within the range of my expected late February delivery. To my surprise, after explaining how busy they were at the end of the month of December and the first few days of January, the sales manager told me the car is in port in Newark and should be at the dealership in about a week! Financing offered, per completion of credit application, is 3.49%. Am going to the dealership tomorrow to hand in the application and get some other info. I am pleasantly surprised by this development. I ordered the car October 20th so I should have it within three months!!!
What's really funny is that I became great friends in the Air Force with a guy from Sacramento...I used to tease him that California didn't really exist; it was a made up place so people from Iowa wouldn't have to admit they were from Iowa. Irony (karma?) is a funny thing...we now both live here in Iowa!
The fronts are 50 and rear are 55. It has been reported that the stock rear with 55mm offset and 225 tire rubs on when installed on the front. So you want something <= 50.
I have 17x8s with 50mm offset. There really isn't any noticeable diff/increase in tire exposure from the fender lips. I had already stuck on a set JDM mud guards before I got the wheels; they were expensive ($160?) but they help keep some of the crap off the side of the car.
Unless you are going for looks the 17x9 wheel and tire will be heavier and with a 40 series tire the ride will be rougher.
I would go with 17x7.5s and 225s on all 4 for the best combo of ride and handling. I would go with 17x8 for better handling with some loss of ride.
The 17x9 is partly for looks and partly for patch width.
I'm not real impressed with the RE040s as they wear; kinda loud, and last week in about average rain, they hydro'd with relative ease. Still comfy though. After a lot of reading, I think the Goodyear F1 GS-D3 looks like a go.
Are the mudgards black molded or painted to match?
I have 225 GS-D3 and I think they work really well. They are noticeably more sure footed in the rain than the re040s. I am not sure if the noise is less or just a different pitch than the REs. Most tires get noisier as they wear though
The mudguards are painted to match and come in box that has the Toyota logo on the outside. The instructions are even in Japanese. There are lots of picture on how to install them so it is pretty easy to figure out what they want you to do. I have had them on for over a year now and the paint seems to be holding up really well.
The last time I talked to my local Lexus service rep I asked about how many keying incidents that they see and if there was any particular car that got hit more than others. She said they do see scratched/vandalized cars come in but that there wasn't really any particular model that was a target. She has seen SUVs along with sedans.
I know some folks in the local BMW community and they have similar things happen.
Well, I had a few minutes idle time yesterday, so the big "L" is now off the butt of my car. I like the cleaner look. I think the "lexus" is next, and the IS 300 I think I'll leave.
I don't usually use the ACC, but yesterday I left it on most of the day, and the compressor was running the entire time. Does it ever shut off with the ACC engaged? Methinks not!
I don't like that, frankly. I don't need it on all the time, that's silly and a waste of gas. So much for "set and forget", for me that is! I'm a manual HVAC guy anyway. Maybe I'll tell ol' wwest to complaing to Toyota customer service for me...
I don't remember how you tell when the compressor is on? I usually have everything on auto which I know runs the AC a lot but I didn't think the compressor was engaged all the time? I am a let the computers do the busy work type of guy :-)
There is so much gravel flying around on the PDX freeways from last weeks snow/ice storm that my SC has been hiding in the garage for over a week.
I'm pretty certain as long as the lamp is lit, the unit is operating. I guess I'm somewhat of a control freak, LOL!
Sorry to hear about the gritting. I know how frustrating it is for me to use alternate transport. Man, I'm glad I don't have to deal with snow unless I want to!
So last night I massaged off the "lexus", so all that's left is the IS300 on the right flank. I like it. Should create even more confusion out in the real world. Ain't I a stinker?
Speaking of alternate transport, that little act of vandalism is gonna put me in a covered rental for four days. It's going to cost the insurance company $1200 to fix (zero deductible on comprehensive, thank goodness).
Wish I owned an auto body shop. They're a real nice family, but I'm getting to know them far too well. Cursed, I tell you...
My car has some real thin white pin stripes along the side that I have been tempted to remove. I think they must have been done at the POE. There wasn't any the on the sticker about them.
I am not a pin stripe fan but I can't complain about the quality of the install.
i took jmess' advice and removed the "IS300" and "Lexus" emblems. i left the "L" in place. so far, i have been very pleased with the results. yeah, three emblems in the back are too crowded.
i leave my AC on auto setting all the time, but i do disengage the AC (well the light goes off at least) while set on auto. i always turn off the AC for the winter time. however, i am unsure if this does in fact saves gas or not for the lexus with auto on and ac orange light off. it does make me feel better that the orange AC light is not on even though everything is set on auto. :P
at first i was a bit skeptical about setting everything on auto...however after a few days, you do end up "set it and forget it"...unless the orange light comes on of course (for me at least). then i have to hit the button to get the light off.
oh yeah, forgot to mention, we know the sportcross is not that great with gas milege. the estimated fuel consumption is supposed to be 18/24 city/highway.
anyway, the other day, i took a 5 hour trip and got almost 26 mpg (mostly highway and minor city) with speed mostly around 62-64 mph cruise controlled.
however, my average city driving is between 17-19 mpg which is pretty consistent with the estimate.
so anyone else been keeping track of the mpg? what are your results?
My last road trip was 240 miles each way, of which 90 miles was two lane. I was running fairly hard on the freeway 75-90 when I could and I passed a lots of cars on the two lane section. I got 21 :-). I thought that was pretty good considering how easily the car ate up the miles.
Well, the mule's in the shop to have the scratch painted out. I put off buying the new rubber until I get it back.
Without buying wheels, Costco is nearly unbeatable for prices installed, it seems. With wheels as a package, the Rack looks very reasonable indeed.
The Lexus dealer has insanely high labor prices for anything, but a four wheel alignment check and adjust runs $140 here, which is over and above nuts. Typical shop prices run from $45-$65 locally. Still, I have a service due, and it's just as easy to have them do it at the same time. I don't like being separated from my car any longer than absolutely necessary.
So, I'm still stuck and undecided. I'm sticking with the stock rims. The only rims out there I really like are the GT1s, but 18" and 19" rims are too boy racer, and the 17's aren't being imported in the right offset to stuff the wide rubber neatly under the back.
The decision (very waffly) is down to the S-03 Pole Positions or the F1 GS-D3. Every time I think I've made up my mind, I go back and read (with a very large grain of salt) the reviews at the Rack, which puts me back on the fence.
The S-03s appear to have somewhat better responsiveness and less sidewall flex, but more noise, less comfort and lower treadlife. The GS-D3s aparrently are a bit more comfy, better in the rain, but are not quite as nimble. The question is one of degrees, it seems.
Any feedback out there?
BTW, I checked out IS300.net and Club Lexus, and aside from one or two real-world enthusiasts, they seem populated by boy racers who are willing to go to absurd lengths to actually screw up their car's handling characteristics in a quest for cometic "enhancements"!
Darden, I saw your link over there. I like your pics. Keep it sane, my man!
I went with GS-D3s because they were a little cheaper and I got a $60 Home Depot gift card from GoodYear. After 5K of using but not abusing them, I feel they work well wet or dry.
I haven't driven a car with S-03s so I can't really compare them. I can say you won't be disapointed with the GS-D3s. If they make less noise and have a better ride then I would give them some additional bonus points.
For wheels you might expand your search to some other brands.
I picked up a copy of Sport Compact off the newsstand and hit a number of mfrs, Volks included.
What I'd like is a strong, lightweight (GT1 is 18.5 lbs) 17x9 for the rear to take a 255/40-17 tire. In order to do it right, i.e. with all the rubber underneath, I need a min. offset of +50. I like a five-spoke, and a split-five design is OK, if well done.
The rack does have an 18x9 in a +50 offset, but that means going with a 255/35-18 for an exact diameter match and I could pair that with a 17x7.5 and a 225/45-17 up front, but I get the feeling the ride on a 35-series tire will be a bit more harsh than I want.
For a modest bump in tread width, I suppose I could always just go 225/45-17 up front and 235/45-17 in back on the stock rims. The mfr's specs say it'll fit on the rim (min. requirements (rub up front?), but that changes the diameter 3/10ths in front and 4/10ths in back, and more sidewall pinched tighter does not seem like much of a handling enhancement. Don't know if the height increase would have much, if any, impact on the geometry, but I don't think I want to find out the hard way, really...
From the reviews and your input, the GS-D3 seems like what I'm after. Interesting, though that TR shows it having much smaller tread width than the S-03 (7.1" v. 8" F and 7.1" v. 8.4" R). I guse under actual cornering, the contact patch must be approximately equal?
Anyway, the test results show almost a dead heat between those two tires.
As far as the tread width diff you show for S03s and GS-D3s of the same size, that could be typo in the specs? Any diff in width above .25 inches is a ton as far as tires go.
Just got my white Sportcross!! anyway, anyone out there know whether the suspension (springs/shocks) are different or identical between the SportX and the sedan???
My understanding is that the SportCross and the E-Shift sedan are sprung and damped identically, and that the manual sedan receives a slightly more aggressive setup ("sport-tuned").
I'm convince my wife would love a SportCross. Lease is up on our current Lexus in 2 months. Dealer has a few IS sedans. Drove one and (she) really liked it. Seems one with a rear hatch would be great. Sales person has found 4 within transport distance and would love to get me one.....but then tells me I should "for sure" lease it as these wagons are very hard to sell (re-sale) in our area. Interesting!
dardson1... What do the traditional resale value books show for the '02-'03 SportCross? Lease residual comparisons? Do take a thorough test drive. See if you like it and can live with it easily. Buy what you love. If you love it, keep it for 5 or 6 years and resale won't matter too much, anyway. If you want something rare that people will ask you about, the SportCross is a great choice. Reliable, affordable, practical, and very sporty. (Heck, its weight distribution is better than the sedan.)
Here's my thought: the SportCross and the E-shift sedan are separated by mere minor degrees. The suspensions are set up identically, and the driving dynamics are essentially the same. Actually, on paper, the wagon has a handling edge over the sedan because of a better fore and aft weight distro, but gives up a tenth or two on acceleration due to a bit over a hundred pounds of backpack (3410 v. 3285). The sedan has 215mm rubber at all four corners, and the wagon carries 225mm at the back.
Get her to the lot and into an E-shift sedan for a good, solid test drive. It's the only way to know.
Resale: I have significant doubts that private resale would be lower on the SX than on the sedan, but there are too few out there for a great database. Could be that rarity might work in our favor! Resale would be compromised by a scarcity of parts, if the sedan were as scarce, but it's not.
Mine is leased, and since I write off a portion as a business expense and prefer to turn vehicles at 3-4 year intervals, it's the most sensible method for me. For anyone who doesn't anticipate a legitimate expense write-off, I'm not sure how advantageous leasing would be. BTW, the fabulous IS lease rate is a DNA for the SportCross IIRC. Only good on the sedans. Yet another reason why they don't move what they don't have!
I personally think it's the best car on the road. For me, that is...;)
According to Edmunds used car estimator, and using an E-Shift v. SportCross optioned exactly the same way, a 2002 sedan comes up at $900 more than a wagon.
I then checked the Kelley site, www.kbb.com, with the exact same parameters and the SportCross is profiled at $900 MORE than the E-Shift sedan.
Call it a wash, says I. Buy what makes you happy, not what makes someone down the line that you don't even know yet happy!
If you look at the number of sport wagon/hatches that are being launched over the next year there definetly is a market for them even if Lexus can't seem to figure it out. I don't think the SportCross has been highlighted in any major ad campaign since 02. Lexus could advertise it as a new model for 04 and most of the general public wouldn't know the diff.
One thing I think we can look forward to 5 years for now, will be the reliability ratings. These cars are so mechanically solid that they should be the darlings of the Consumer Reports used car survey in the future. So a good clean car that has been adult owned and operated should do ok on the pre-owned car market IMHO.
"So a good clean car that has been adult owned and operated should do ok on the pre-owned car market IMHO..."
"Adult owned"; brother, you just said a mouthful!
Well, I ordered the GS-D3s yesterday. Should be in by Friday and on by Monday. I can't wait. It's raining here and with the fronts down to zero tread on the outboard shoulders, I'm having to be, well, restrained!
After being in port since January 5th, I finally picked up my car at the dealer on January 31st. I love the car. It was everything I though it would be. Nothing disappointed. Bluestone metallic color is very nice. It is not the "dull" color that it appears to be in internet pix. Looks blue or gray, my two favorite car colors, depending on the light. Took it for a ride the first day on some nice twist roads with the stereo cranked. . Haven't been driving it as much as I would like due to some bad weather here in the Philly area. Waiting until next year to get the snow tires and 16" rims. Less driving may be good as I'm looking into the clear bra options now, leaning towards invca-shield, and hope to have it on by the end of February.
DARDSON: I had no trouble buying the Sportcross after driving the sedan only. However, I needed to see if a wheel chair would fit in the back without folding the seats down, it does, so I drove to Baltimore to test drive a used one. Very similar to me. How long do you plan to keep the car? I think that should be the main consideration with leasing. If you like to turn cars over every 3-4 years, lease. I run cars into the ground. Last car, which the dealer offered me $100 for as a trade, was driven for 14+ years and 175K miles. Donated it to charity and will take a tax deduction equivalent to about $400. It didn't owe me a penny and I didn't want to go to the hassle of selling privately. I had to order my Sport X because I wanted specific options, LSD, Full leather, and bluestone but the three month wait was worth it. Good luck.
I stayed with the stock sizes, J. I didn't feel like pinching the fit up front with 225's, so I left 'em 215. I have definitely decided to swap out sway bars this summer; earlier if I can.
Congrats, saz!
I think the Bluestone is a great color. I forget, did you go ivory or black inside?
Black interior. I really like the look of it compared to the ivory/tan. My wife wanted the green color for the exterior at first until we found out the black interior was not offered with that choice. I will be getting the windows tinted to offset some of the heat, hopefully. Taking the car to work today, no ice or snow on tap until tomorrow!
Comments
End of story, for me.
Rubber: I'm going the other way. I believe I have convinced the family CFO (Mrs.) that my acquistion of 17x8 and 17x9 SSR GT1 rims is really just a slight incremental increase in cost over the necessary new rubber coming due, if you think about it the right way.
I think I may go jmess's way with F1's in 235/40-17 and 255/40-17. The stiffer bars may well follow sometime this summer, assuming I can install myself.
I see your point, but I thought the sidewalls on snow tires had to be a little higher than the low-profile summer/all-season tires. Wouldn't that make it necessary to have 16-inch wheels instead of 17s? I would think a low-profile snow tire would be an oxymoron. If it snowed more than three or four inches right now, I'd have snow piling up on my brake rotors. That was my reason for the two-grand comment. If I put snow tires on, I was assuming I'd need a different size wheel to accomodate the higher sidewall on the tires. And I certainly wouldn't buy any boring off-the-shelf wheels just because it was a temporary (three-month) precaution. Nice wheels are not cheap. I want my car to look sharp 24-7. That's one of the reasons I bought it.
wale_bate is correct. Narrower snow tires are preferred. But I'll pretty much take any dedicated snow tire over an all-season. And notice how the people driving all-seasons don't switch to a narrower tire or ever worry about switching to a narrower tire? Now, why is that?
Shy of living in, say, Minnetonka or Bismark or Tahoe, but in an area that gets an occasional winter freeze and a perhaps a fair deal of inclement weather, I see no great reason to shy away from high or ultra-high performance 4S tires whatsoever with a set of cleats in the rear storage for heavy drop days. True, you will never achieve the ultimate grip of a max perf summer tire, but A) the car handles and performs beautifully enough that it wouldn't be an issue for most who buy it, and
Yeah, it's a compromise, but if we're reading the posts here carefully and not ignoring the circumstances, we all understand that occasionally compromises have to be made. Not like it's the end of the world, nor will it detract much, if at all, from the enjoyment of the car.
For me, well I live where I live by choice and have made a lot of sacrifices to stay here, in part because I can slap on the widest summer rubber I can find (just within reason, of course!)!
For kicks, go read through the 3er topics and see what some of them do for winterizing. Since the Altezza was designed entirely with the 3 in mind, the characteristics and logistics are remarkably similar, IMO.
http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/tires/articles/100811/article.ht- - ml?tid=edmunds.h..reviews.specialreports.2.*
From my own winter tire testing.
I have Blizzak LM-22s 205-55-16s for the SportCross on a set of 16x7 alloys. They seem to work well. With trac and snow mode you can get around pretty safely. The nice thing about the LM-22s is the wet and dry handling is better than I thought it would be. The tire noise is louder than stock but not offensive. IMHO a good tire for occasional snow days with dry/wet performance close to a mid range allseason.
I have some 15" Blizzak WS-50s on the wife's 03 Accord and they work well in the slick stuff but dry handling is degraded a bit. Tire noise is noticeable over stock but not offensive. For heavier snow and ice these would be better than the LM-22s IMHO.
I have some 14" Nokian Hakkapeliitta 1s on a Honda Civic with partial pattern studs (50%). If you live where it really snows and sticks for extended periods of time, these tires will get you through just about anything as long as you have some ground clearance. With studs they tend to be a little noisy on dry pavement and the dry/wet handling could be better. The Hakkapeliitta 2s are out now and should be better tire.
as you said yourself, "You are obsessing over marketing terms. Stick to the basics. We know what a station wagon is. We know what a minivan is. We know what an SUV is. We know what a sedan is. We know what a pickup truck is. We know what AWD is."
well, you too believe that "SUV" which is just another marketing term back in the 90s is now one of the "basics".
there's a big diff. between CUVs and SUVs. CUVs are built on car chasis versus SUVs which are built on truck chasis. now, that's a big diff. in my book in terms of function and capability.
IMHO, "CUV", a marketing term, will soon become one of the basic categories like "SUV". few years from now, you might just start saying "stay to the basics that we know, SUVs, Station Wagons, Sedans, Coupes, and CUVs". :P
CUVs have come...i believe they will stay...that's just my prediction, nothing more. i might be wrong, i might be right, only time can tell.
for cars, if it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, and walks like a duck is simplifying and cheapening all the diff. between cars.
yeah, the SportCross and the Mazda Protege 5 are very very similar to average onlookers...now we all know that these two vehicles are very different in every way!
when it comes to auto trends and forecasts, i think i will trust the opinions of experts in the industry...yeah, they could be wrong but they sure know a lot more about the industry than me. it is their job after all. plus, it simply makes sense in terms of business...
maybe i am overly "obsessing over marketing terms" as you said. but you must forgive me, i enjoy all aspects of business since i am a MBA. i can't help myself to over analyse any business strategies and moves executed in any industries. a risky move breaks or makes a company.
take Nissan/Infiniti for example, their bold move to push aggressive styling really paid off for them this past year. but it could have gone the other way and totally killed the company. now, that was bold and interesting to me.
and Lexus takes a gamble on the SportCross...didn't really pay off for them even after a couple of years...sigh. a sad thing. a truly great car that deserves more recognition and attention.
yeah, i told the dealership in Richmond that i wanted the no cost All Seaon option...well, that dealership sucks and screwed me on that along with some other things. so that's that to make the long story short.
so yes, i am bitter about the A/S i requested and didn't get especially during my first attempt to drive in less than an inch of snow. perhaps it's not the fault of the Lexus which i was complaining about earlier and just the fault of the dealership.
I know you posted the offset for the stock 7.5 rims, but I can't find it anywhere. Can you tell me again?
I'm gonna try to get an idea of exactly where the rubber will fall in a width expansion. Tirerack is showing the offset for the rear 17x9 SSR GT1 at +45 and the front 17x7.5 at +48.
The front doesn't really concern me, but the rear is a sizable chunk. Don't want anything outside the verticle line of the fender; this ain't no '84 Camaro...;)
To my surprise, after explaining how busy they were at the end of the month of December and the first few days of January, the sales manager told me the car is in port in Newark and should be at the dealership in about a week! Financing offered, per completion of credit application, is 3.49%. Am going to the dealership tomorrow to hand in the application and get some other info. I am pleasantly surprised by this development. I ordered the car October 20th so I should have it within three months!!!
Now for a week's worth of drooling and sleepless nights...
...but enough about the Iowa caucuses. What about his car?
;-)
[-P
The fronts are 50 and rear are 55. It has been reported that the stock rear with 55mm offset and 225 tire rubs on when installed on the front. So you want something <= 50.
I have 17x8s with 50mm offset. There really isn't any noticeable diff/increase in tire exposure from the fender lips. I had already stuck on a set JDM mud guards before I got the wheels; they were expensive ($160?) but they help keep some of the crap off the side of the car.
Unless you are going for looks the 17x9 wheel and tire will be heavier and with a 40 series tire the ride will be rougher.
I would go with 17x7.5s and 225s on all 4 for the best combo of ride and handling. I would go with 17x8 for better handling with some loss of ride.
The 17x9 is partly for looks and partly for patch width.
I'm not real impressed with the RE040s as they wear; kinda loud, and last week in about average rain, they hydro'd with relative ease. Still comfy though. After a lot of reading, I think the Goodyear F1 GS-D3 looks like a go.
Are the mudgards black molded or painted to match?
The mudguards are painted to match and come in box that has the Toyota logo on the outside. The instructions are even in Japanese. There are lots of picture on how to install them so it is pretty easy to figure out what they want you to do. I have had them on for over a year now and the paint seems to be holding up really well.
Some time over the last few days, location and time unknown, somebody keyed the rear passenger door.
First accident I've ever had, first speeding ticket in years, and now the first car I've ever had vandalized.
The gods are telling me I should've taken the 325it, I'm thinking...
Poor l'il mule...
The last time I talked to my local Lexus service rep I asked about how many keying incidents that they see and if there was any particular car that got hit more than others. She said they do see scratched/vandalized cars come in but that there wasn't really any particular model that was a target. She has seen SUVs along with sedans.
I know some folks in the local BMW community and they have similar things happen.
Well, I had a few minutes idle time yesterday, so the big "L" is now off the butt of my car. I like the cleaner look. I think the "lexus" is next, and the IS 300 I think I'll leave.
Three emblems back there is just too much!
I don't usually use the ACC, but yesterday I left it on most of the day, and the compressor was running the entire time. Does it ever shut off with the ACC engaged? Methinks not!
I don't like that, frankly. I don't need it on all the time, that's silly and a waste of gas. So much for "set and forget", for me that is! I'm a manual HVAC guy anyway. Maybe I'll tell ol' wwest to complaing to Toyota customer service for me...
There is so much gravel flying around on the PDX freeways from last weeks snow/ice storm that my SC has been hiding in the garage for over a week.
Sorry to hear about the gritting. I know how frustrating it is for me to use alternate transport. Man, I'm glad I don't have to deal with snow unless I want to!
So last night I massaged off the "lexus", so all that's left is the IS300 on the right flank. I like it. Should create even more confusion out in the real world. Ain't I a stinker?
Wish I owned an auto body shop. They're a real nice family, but I'm getting to know them far too well. Cursed, I tell you...
I am not a pin stripe fan but I can't complain about the quality of the install.
i leave my AC on auto setting all the time, but i do disengage the AC (well the light goes off at least) while set on auto. i always turn off the AC for the winter time. however, i am unsure if this does in fact saves gas or not for the lexus with auto on and ac orange light off. it does make me feel better that the orange AC light is not on even though everything is set on auto. :P
at first i was a bit skeptical about setting everything on auto...however after a few days, you do end up "set it and forget it"...unless the orange light comes on of course (for me at least). then i have to hit the button to get the light off.
anyway, the other day, i took a 5 hour trip and got almost 26 mpg (mostly highway and minor city) with speed mostly around 62-64 mph cruise controlled.
however, my average city driving is between 17-19 mpg which is pretty consistent with the estimate.
so anyone else been keeping track of the mpg? what are your results?
Without buying wheels, Costco is nearly unbeatable for prices installed, it seems. With wheels as a package, the Rack looks very reasonable indeed.
The Lexus dealer has insanely high labor prices for anything, but a four wheel alignment check and adjust runs $140 here, which is over and above nuts. Typical shop prices run from $45-$65 locally. Still, I have a service due, and it's just as easy to have them do it at the same time. I don't like being separated from my car any longer than absolutely necessary.
So, I'm still stuck and undecided. I'm sticking with the stock rims. The only rims out there I really like are the GT1s, but 18" and 19" rims are too boy racer, and the 17's aren't being imported in the right offset to stuff the wide rubber neatly under the back.
The decision (very waffly) is down to the S-03 Pole Positions or the F1 GS-D3. Every time I think I've made up my mind, I go back and read (with a very large grain of salt) the reviews at the Rack, which puts me back on the fence.
The S-03s appear to have somewhat better responsiveness and less sidewall flex, but more noise, less comfort and lower treadlife. The GS-D3s aparrently are a bit more comfy, better in the rain, but are not quite as nimble. The question is one of degrees, it seems.
Any feedback out there?
BTW, I checked out IS300.net and Club Lexus, and aside from one or two real-world enthusiasts, they seem populated by boy racers who are willing to go to absurd lengths to actually screw up their car's handling characteristics in a quest for cometic "enhancements"!
Darden, I saw your link over there. I like your pics. Keep it sane, my man!
I went with GS-D3s because they were a little cheaper and I got a $60 Home Depot gift card from GoodYear. After 5K of using but not abusing them, I feel they work well wet or dry.
I haven't driven a car with S-03s so I can't really compare them. I can say you won't be disapointed with the GS-D3s. If they make less noise and have a better ride then I would give them some additional bonus points.
For wheels you might expand your search to some other brands.
I like these:
http://www.wheeloptions.com/images/rays/volk/large/te37ms.jpg
http://www.mvpmotorsports.com/Templates/frmTemplateH.asp?SubFolde- rID=369&SearchYN=N
I got my volks from wheeloptions.
I picked up a copy of Sport Compact off the newsstand and hit a number of mfrs, Volks included.
What I'd like is a strong, lightweight (GT1 is 18.5 lbs) 17x9 for the rear to take a 255/40-17 tire. In order to do it right, i.e. with all the rubber underneath, I need a min. offset of +50. I like a five-spoke, and a split-five design is OK, if well done.
The rack does have an 18x9 in a +50 offset, but that means going with a 255/35-18 for an exact diameter match and I could pair that with a 17x7.5 and a 225/45-17 up front, but I get the feeling the ride on a 35-series tire will be a bit more harsh than I want.
For a modest bump in tread width, I suppose I could always just go 225/45-17 up front and 235/45-17 in back on the stock rims. The mfr's specs say it'll fit on the rim (min. requirements (rub up front?), but that changes the diameter 3/10ths in front and 4/10ths in back, and more sidewall pinched tighter does not seem like much of a handling enhancement. Don't know if the height increase would have much, if any, impact on the geometry, but I don't think I want to find out the hard way, really...
From the reviews and your input, the GS-D3 seems like what I'm after. Interesting, though that TR shows it having much smaller tread width than the S-03 (7.1" v. 8" F and 7.1" v. 8.4" R). I guse under actual cornering, the contact patch must be approximately equal?
Anyway, the test results show almost a dead heat between those two tires.
Sigh.
I miss my car...
A long with a rougher ride, the 35 series tires could increase the potential for impact related wheel/tire damage.
A wider tire on a narrow rim will tend to roll its sidewalls more under hard cornering. Increasing air pressure can tune some of this out.
I think it has been reported on is330net that you can use 225s on the stock 17x7 wheels without any problems.
I think the actual ride height change is only half of the diameter change since D = 2 * Radius?
http://www.mathgoodies.com/lessons/vol2/circumference.html
As far as the tread width diff you show for S03s and GS-D3s of the same size, that could be typo in the specs? Any diff in width above .25 inches is a ton as far as tires go.
Some cast 18x8s:
http://www.forperformance.com/axis/hiro/axishiro.html
Yup, the ride height change would actually be .15 and .2.
Take a look at the specs from the Rack:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Spec.jsp?make=Bridgestone&model=Potenz- a+S-03+Pole+Position
and
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Spec.jsp?make=Goodyear&model=Eagle+F1+- GS-D3
Treadwidth progression looks pretty consistent. The sections and rim widths are about equal, but the treadwidth numbers are remarkably different!
"there is no industry standard pertaining to "how much" of the rounded shoulders should be included in the tread width measurement.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/tirespecskey.html#sectionw- idth
thanks!
My understanding is that the SportCross and the E-Shift sedan are sprung and damped identically, and that the manual sedan receives a slightly more aggressive setup ("sport-tuned").
Hey, what happened to my "future of the IS" post?
Hello?
Seems one with a rear hatch would be great. Sales person has found 4 within transport distance and would love to get me one.....but then tells me I should "for sure" lease it as these wagons are very hard to sell (re-sale) in our area. Interesting!
Here's my thought: the SportCross and the E-shift sedan are separated by mere minor degrees. The suspensions are set up identically, and the driving dynamics are essentially the same. Actually, on paper, the wagon has a handling edge over the sedan because of a better fore and aft weight distro, but gives up a tenth or two on acceleration due to a bit over a hundred pounds of backpack (3410 v. 3285). The sedan has 215mm rubber at all four corners, and the wagon carries 225mm at the back.
Get her to the lot and into an E-shift sedan for a good, solid test drive. It's the only way to know.
Resale: I have significant doubts that private resale would be lower on the SX than on the sedan, but there are too few out there for a great database. Could be that rarity might work in our favor! Resale would be compromised by a scarcity of parts, if the sedan were as scarce, but it's not.
Mine is leased, and since I write off a portion as a business expense and prefer to turn vehicles at 3-4 year intervals, it's the most sensible method for me. For anyone who doesn't anticipate a legitimate expense write-off, I'm not sure how advantageous leasing would be. BTW, the fabulous IS lease rate is a DNA for the SportCross IIRC. Only good on the sedans. Yet another reason why they don't move what they don't have!
I personally think it's the best car on the road. For me, that is...;)
I then checked the Kelley site, www.kbb.com, with the exact same parameters and the SportCross is profiled at $900 MORE than the E-Shift sedan.
Call it a wash, says I. Buy what makes you happy, not what makes someone down the line that you don't even know yet happy!
One thing I think we can look forward to 5 years for now, will be the reliability ratings. These cars are so mechanically solid that they should be the darlings of the Consumer Reports used car survey in the future. So a good clean car that has been adult owned and operated should do ok on the pre-owned car market IMHO.
"Adult owned"; brother, you just said a mouthful!
Well, I ordered the GS-D3s yesterday. Should be in by Friday and on by Monday. I can't wait. It's raining here and with the fronts down to zero tread on the outboard shoulders, I'm having to be, well, restrained!
DARDSON: I had no trouble buying the Sportcross after driving the sedan only. However, I needed to see if a wheel chair would fit in the back without folding the seats down, it does, so I drove to Baltimore to test drive a used one. Very similar to me. How long do you plan to keep the car? I think that should be the main consideration with leasing. If you like to turn cars over every 3-4 years, lease. I run cars into the ground. Last car, which the dealer offered me $100 for as a trade, was driven for 14+ years and 175K miles. Donated it to charity and will take a tax deduction equivalent to about $400. It didn't owe me a penny and I didn't want to go to the hassle of selling privately. I had to order my Sport X because I wanted specific options, LSD, Full leather, and bluestone but the three month wait was worth it. Good luck.
Congrats, saz!
I think the Bluestone is a great color. I forget, did you go ivory or black inside?