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Toyota Matrix

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Comments

  • leafguy2727leafguy2727 Member Posts: 83
    Thx for your help!!!
  • ed_scott0013ed_scott0013 Member Posts: 64
    I've heard that they're more prone to fading than disk brakes. If the parking brake (on the rear drums) was set, the brake pads may have faded due to the friction/heat. I'm assuming that their performance will be restored (un-faded) when the brakes cool down, but I could be wrong. Maybe someone could help me with this...
  • hpulley4hpulley4 Member Posts: 591
    Right, brakes fade due to heat build-up. Hot metal is more slippery than cold metal so you lose braking power. Drums dissipate heat much more slowly than discs (aero ventilated discs are the best). Once they cool off again, they will be OK, assuming that nothing was damaged from the wear. If they are damaged, they'll need to be machined (the drums) and the pads replaced.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Saw them back to back at the Auto Show last night and I definitely like the Vibe better in looks. Still none at the local dealer but it's good that all you early Matrix owners are posting here. Keep up the posts and let me know how the cars are running.

    FYI.. both cars had large crowds around them last night. I'm guessing these cars will be as big a hit as was projected.
  • leafguy2727leafguy2727 Member Posts: 83
    Thx guys for your input. I took her for a scoot today, no problems to report.

    P.S> I took my wife's cavalier in for a fuel filter and oil change and was told I need a transmission tune up/service. Whatever, had it done 3 months ago by my VERY trustworthy mechanic. He couldn't do the fuel filter thanks to some funky GM part on there. So when I told the guy over the phone it was done 3 months ago I was told, oh well the level on fluid it too high. Man I hate GM dealerships when it comes to service..........sorry had to let it out of me but what a damn scam!!!!!!!!!
  • stragerstrager Member Posts: 308
    Toyota's median customer is over 45. They can't change the median age of the customer by forcing everyone to drive a Matrix with a body kit! The younger buyers that Toyota hopes to attract with the Matrix don't typically want Toyota to do the customization for them, they'll do it themselves. If you look at the Civic, perhaps 10% or so are souped up with spoilers and such by the younger crowd. These people usually don't have $20K up front to buy a brand new car; instead they buy a 2-3 year old Civic that they can then customize, as THEY want. Toyota is insisting that EVERYONE who chooses the XR or XRS must take the body kit. I wish Toyota would give people the choice of getting the vehicle with/without skirts and spoilers.
  • TupTup Member Posts: 200
    Peterun:

    We have the 5 speed and I too noticed that it can be fussy to start. It seems you must fully press in the clutch to start it...more so than most standards. When I trimmed our winter mat a little so it didn't interfere with the clutch, the starting has been fine. You just have to remember to fully depress the clutch....or turn the key on while you press in the clutch and keep pressing the clutch until it starts. After the first couple of starts, I've had no problems.
  • nymerianymeria Member Posts: 11
    Back when I had a Tercel, friends who wanted to borrow it would regularly tell me the car wouldn't start. You really had to floor the clutch or nothing happened. Don't know if that's the case for the Matrix but it sounds familiar. Tup might have a point about the floormat, too. I had trouble a couple of times when the mat bunched a little under the clutch. It wasn't enough to notice easily, but it was enough to keep the car from starting.
  • geneseedepotgeneseedepot Member Posts: 30
    Finally, I thought, Toyota is going to put its' dealers' inventories on the web like gmbuypower/forddirect do...Toyota even put a full page ad in the weekend auto classifieds to promote the ability to "check out the entire inventory of new and used vehicles". Ha! They give you the NUMBER of a particular model in your area but you still have to email the dealer to get information on individual cars. What a bunch of crap. Kudos to Ford/GM/Chrysler for the virtual window stickers for their online inventory.
  • phankanephankane Member Posts: 57
    I tested the base Matrix today, I am fairly impress with the engine. Overall it is nothing more than a small minivan, I will buy it for my honey and keep my old, trusty Honda for myself.
    I feel very feminine while driving the Matrix, OOPS.
  • deagleddeagled Member Posts: 20
    I have to totally disagree with you. You said you felt fiminine driving the matrix... you got to be kidding! you obviously haven't driven the XRS! I went from a 98 Civic Si to my new XRS, and the matrix would run circles around the Si, no problem.

    Anyway, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. so be it.
  • subzero206subzero206 Member Posts: 111
    still deciding which to get XR or XRS. anyone else test drive both? i like the 180hp but most reviews say its not worth it, especially since it requires premium fuel and gets 7mpg LESS. do u feel enough of a difference to make up for those 2 points?
  • rblelandrbleland Member Posts: 312
    I drove both the 130 and 180 HP Matrises, and I am on order for the next Indigo Ink XR w 130 HP. I liked the XRS 180HP on the test drive but look at the HP/torque curve and you'll see it's all at the upper end of the revs. Up to 5000 rpm. not that much difference. Who drives at 5000+ rpm all the time? It really depends what you want to do with the car and your personal driving style. I don't see myself as wanting to keep the rpm's in the high range all the time (gets pretty noisy up there) so the 130 HP is better for every day IMO.
    Really up to you.
  • subzero206subzero206 Member Posts: 111
    thanks, this is the kind of info i wanted to see to help me choose. i will go with the XR, need to save up a little more $$ first =)

    btw, this will be my first time buying a car. do u think the dealer would be a little more willing to negotiate if i told them i will be paying it off on the spot?
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    Actually, no.

    Believe it or not, the largest PROFIT center for dealers is financing. They get their money immediately when you finance, because your contract is SOLD to the lender. Most dealers do not like cash sales--they even have to be reported to the IRS immediately if you pay more ten thousand or more dollars in cash (not a check).

    Get you information upfront, be polite, be honest but be firm, and don't be cowed! Good luck!
  • PeterunPeterun Member Posts: 83
    I really appreciate your help advising me how to deal with my clutch "problem." I will cut out that portion of the mat, and also press very hard on the clutch!! This forum is so great.

    Separately, my gas mileage is way up there . . . as long as I drive the XRS as though it was an XR. During the break-in period, I've been trying to keep the RPM's below 4500. The car is just great. Thanks to all for helping. Pete
  • scott31scott31 Member Posts: 292
    The salesman was correct, you cannot order a car from Toyota, which, in my opinion, stinks big time.

    I am very specific with my cars, I want exactly the color combo I want, and exactly the options I want.

    To get that on my Matrix, I have to wait until the dealer is allocated a Matrix XRS 6speed. Then, once he gets allocation, they can call up Toyota and play with that car to change it to the colors and options that I want. They just can't turn in an order for me. So, best case, I'll be waiting 8 weeks for mine, worst case, god only knows.....

    Sigh, getting my Caddy STS was SO much easier.
  • maryboo19maryboo19 Member Posts: 21
    Is not being able to order a Toyota a new policy? I swear my friend ordered his Tacoma pickup a few years ago because he wanted it with some wacky options which would be impossible to find.

    Maybe it's more an issue of the salesman not wanting to do a special order. In my experience, salesman in general don't like to do orders unless they absolutely must.
  • southpaw1southpaw1 Member Posts: 34
    I've tested both. The XRS had a lot more zip. I need that pull out power while driving the heavily congested roads around DC so I settled on the XRS.

    The dealers aren't negotiating in this area. You pay MSRP and in my case a deposit while they search for the car you want. Ordering is possible but they told me it could take 2-5 months.
  • petlpetl Member Posts: 610
    It doesn't matter whether you pay cash or finance the vehicle in trying to obtain a better deal. The dealer will get the money either from you or the loan company (Toyota credit) at time of purchase. In Canada, Toyota credit and Toyota sales are 2 seperate identities.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    But, But, But:

    The dealer makes a COMMISSION, sometimes QUITE sizable, if you finance through one of his (or her) sources.

    Therefore, oftentimes, you can get a better deal by paying with credit than with cash. Most buyers leave this money on the table, though, by agreeing to a price BEFORE financing. Dealers love this. Another opportunity to make more money (along with accessories, credit life, warranties, etc.)

    If the dealer can match the financing I can get myself, I usually go through the dealer. They are business people, too, and need to make money to stay in business. It's only fair. On the other hand, if I can get a better deal myself, I take that. That, too, is only fair.
  • petlpetl Member Posts: 610
    To my knowledge their business is selling and servicing cars. With any reputable dealer it should not matter if you are paying cash, financing it through them or another financial institution. The practice you are referring to is commonly used to sell second hand cars.

    On the topic of getting a better deal, your logic doesn't make sense. Assuming what you say is accurate, any discount received (on a purchase) would be eaten pretty quickly with the interest paid on a needless loan. Why would you pay interest on a loan if it is not necessary to do so? Incidentally, Manufacturer's new car loans are cheaper than what other financial institutions can offer. If financing is necessary, it would only be logical to finance at a lower rate.

    I will agree that the dealer will make additional money with add-ons (undercoating, accessories, etc.). However, loan insurance and extended warranties are managed separately.

    Toyota Credit (Canada) was created, as a separate identity, to offer customers new car loans (or leases) at a reduced interest rate and to increase new car sales. Depending on the model, the reduction can be substantial. Please note that I am strictly talking about new car loans in Canada.

    By the way, we just traded our 1998 RAV for a 4WD XR on Saturday. It will have to be ordered. It should be in within the next 4 to 6 weeks.
  • herzogtum71herzogtum71 Member Posts: 470
    When I bought a Corolla wagon in 1994, I wanted a stick shift and cruise control among other options. My local dealer said they couldn't order one from the factory to my specs, but they had one coming in within a few weeks -- based on an allocation sheet they showed me -- that was very similar to what I wanted. So if the salespeople are being truthful, the policy is not a new one.
  • subzero206subzero206 Member Posts: 111
    thanks for filling me in guys, now i would like to know about the stereo. how does it sound? how many watts? is there better sound in the optional "premium" sound system? i would like to get the 6 disc in-dash system but i dont want to order it if its only like 30x4 watts (or whatever). so tell me, how is the sound?
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    I am NOT suggesting you borrow money when you otherwise would not. I AM saying that you will NOT get a better price merely because you are paying cash. Dealers in the US & Canada get commissions for the loans they set up. Fact of Life. By paying cash, you do the dealer no favour at all, but in fact deprive him of one of the many opportunities the dealer has to make money. That's all.
  • scott31scott31 Member Posts: 292
    Just got back from my local dealer (in DC metro area).

    Hopefully when the dealer gets his next allocation, (near the end of the month) he'll be getting a Matrix XRS 6-speed. Then he can customize it to fit my options and accessories.

    For the record, I requested:

    XRS 6-speed
    17" wheels
    Side Airbags
    All Weather Package
    Navigation System
    Wheel Locks
    Rear Bumper protector
    cargo mat
    floor mats
    Security System
    Auto Dimming Mirror.

    MSRP $22,259.00

    Agreed price $20,639.00

    Cross your fingers that he gets one allocated to him this month....then if so, it's a 6-8 week wait from there.
  • rblelandrbleland Member Posts: 312
    ....you might want to rethink that option. We have one on my wife's '99 Solara SLE V6 and it is the only thing I don't like on the entire car. It doesn't dim lights enough and you can't over-ride it (to my knowledge). As they are both Toyota's, yours might be the same. I fail to see their usefulness anyway. Just a thought for you - otherwise sounds like a great car.
  • potroastpotroast Member Posts: 13
    After purchasing the dealers try to sell undercoating,extended warranty,
    even rustproofing.Anyone no what kind of steel toyota is now using and what are they doing to prevent rusting? Is it effective?Manufacturers used to print lots on how good their cars are built ,but now its all about options.Will rustproofing void the warranty ?
    Why have they gone to 16" and 17" tires ?
    How reliable is the fancy valve tecnology?
  • hpulley4hpulley4 Member Posts: 591
    Generally, I like to have an extended warranty. I know it is a bit of a rip off lots of times but especially for first year cars (even from Toyota) I like to know that I won't get stuck with a big A/C repair or something similar on down the line. Depends on how long you intend to keep the car and how much driving you do. If you drive a lot then you'll go through the warranty too quickly to bother but if you don't drive much then a 6-7 year bumper-bumper for under $1500 CND seems like a good gamble to me (A/C repairs can cost that much if you need a new evaporator core). If you factor in any included roadside assistance in the warranty then that is like paying $100/year for CAA which is almost half of cost of the above example warranty.

    I don't think new cars need undercoatings -- that one really seems like a rip off to me. After a few years of travel where rocks may damage the original coating I think it is worthwhile to add some rust treatment/protection but on a new car it seems silly to me.

    Big wheels? A recent survey of things desired by car buyers had wheels way up there, well above the engine which wasn't even in the top 10 IIRC. I think big alloy wheels are heavy and expensive to repair, and usually have expensive short-lived tires to go with them but that's just me. They do look cool with disc brakes underneath but they aren't really very practical at all.
  • a_l_hubcapsa_l_hubcaps Member Posts: 518
    hpulley-

    "I think big alloy wheels are heavy and expensive to repair, and usually have expensive short-lived tires to go with them but that's just me. They do look cool with disc brakes underneath but they aren't really very practical at all."

    You've got that right. I'm waiting for the day when people who are now raving about how cool their big alloys are start to notice that they're paying $800 for new tires every 25K miles, and their car vibrates on the highway because the expensive wheels are all bent and distorted. Toyota has enough trouble making 14" and 15" wheels strong enough to survive curbs and potholes. The 16" and 17" sizes don't stand a chance. If you must drive a car with big wheels, make them steel wheels. At least you can bang those straight with a hammer if they get damaged. Just try THAT with an alloy rim :-)

    -Andrew L
  • TupTup Member Posts: 200
    Have I been under a false impression all these years? I always thought that alloy wheels were lighter than steel wheels....hense the reason they were used in sporting applications....to save a little weight.

    Personally, I have owned many cars with alloy wheels and the only problem I have had was with salt blemishing the surface.

    Also, can you really say that Toyota has trouble making alloy wheels? I thought they bought them from outside suppliers. I know my subaru wheels and the ones on my wife's former Mazda MX3 seemed to have the same supplier logo on them (JB or something).
  • a_l_hubcapsa_l_hubcaps Member Posts: 518
    Tup-


    You are half right. The original intent of alloy wheels, when they were developed for racing purposes in the '60s, was indeed to save weight. Some alloys are significantly lighter than steels. However, two things happen to offset this.


    1) Aluminum alloys are not the strongest metals out there. If OEM alloys were made as light as possible, they would be bending and cracking left and right. Ask a Mitsubishi Eclipse owner about this. In order to make an alloy wheel that can stand up to some real world road abuse, they can't use the lightest possible alloys and structures.


    2) In many cases, the optional OEM alloys on cars are a size or two larger than the standard OEM steels. They're also wider. This difference is size can easily offset the difference in weight.


    As for the wheels coming from suppliers: I'm not sure exactly who is responsible for the engineering of the wheels. Part of the problem with the Toyota wheels is not the wheels themselves, but the tires. The 14" wheels on the '02 and older Corolla have tires whose sidewalls are inappropriately narrow. This problem exists with both the steel and alloy Corolla rims because they use the same tires, but the steels generally don't get damaged too badly and can be pounded straight, while the alloys get destroyed. You wouldn't believe what it costs to buy a new OEM alloy wheel from Toyota. Most of them are well over $300, some over $400 per wheel.


    Being in the wheel trim business, I often get a firsthand look at the damage that occurs to different types of wheels. My experience is that alloys on passenger cars, where the tires are not big enough to protect them, have a much greater propensity to get destroyed in impacts than steels. Take a look at this:




    image




    That's a modern OEM alloy wheel (Lincoln Town Car, to be exact) which split completely in half when it hit a pothole. I have never seen anything like that happen to a steel wheel. Just food for thought.


    -Andrew L

  • smartguy8514smartguy8514 Member Posts: 15
    for those of you that have test driven the XR and the XRS is there any difference in rode noise due to the XRS having the optional 17 inchers?
  • smochestersmochester Member Posts: 7
    I heard more wind than tire noise, and that was going 80mph on the highway. My present car has 16" with 205/45's and those make more noise than the 17's on the XRS.

    Tire noise is usually due to the actual tire, not the wheel size.
  • potroastpotroast Member Posts: 13
    Why do they call it cargo ?
    We compared and measured .The distance between wheel wells was more than old 4-runner and floor is flat and hatch window opens and hinges don't stick in the area.And rear seat knee room with front seats all the way back is huge.
  • lecram777lecram777 Member Posts: 13
    I see you are from the So cal area. where did you purchase your XRS and did you get a fair deal?
  • blyndgesser1blyndgesser1 Member Posts: 17
    I've been shopping for a Matrix here in central Georgia. The four dealers within 50 miles all have several things in common: (1) they each have only one or two in stock, with about three more expected in March; (2) everything they have in stock, and everything they're getting in the near future, is AUTOMATIC, and (3) almost everything I've seen has the $285 "extreme graphics" package, which looks really stupid to my eyes. They pick attractive colors like "Lunar Mist" or "Indigo Ink" and then paint yellow and red lettering on it 3ft high! Maybe the dealers are the problem--if they're going for the youth market, the graphics are OK but why equip them all with automatic? If they're going for the traditional Toyota buyer (I think probably 90% of all Corollas are automatic now, much higher than other small cars), then why the goofy graphics that say MATRIX in 3ft high letters? Somebody isn't getting the message. . . I'll buy one when they can sell me an XR with a five-speed and the CD/cassette combo (and without the lettering) for about 5% over invoice. I can wait. . . and something tells me it'll take a while.
  • smochestersmochester Member Posts: 7
    I have never heard of this? Please tell me this is a dealer installed option, because if the is a TMS idea, I'm going to throw up!!
  • petlpetl Member Posts: 610
    Sounds like a dealer option. None of the Matrices at the 4 dealerships I have visited had this package. Doesn't sound too appealing. I believe they can be safely removed. The dealers will have to be reminded that Toyota is after the youth not the baby market.
  • stragerstrager Member Posts: 308
    I don't think most young people that Toyota is apparently targeting with the Matrix have $19-21K to spend on one. Perhaps Toyota is really targeting the traditional Camry buyer who wants to "think" young.

    The Matrix is a terrific small wagon, IMO, that seems overpriced with the expensive marketing packs that Toyota is including on most of them.
  • damax07damax07 Member Posts: 32
    I am located in West Palm Beach. I can tell you this is an option that is dealer or port installed and offered through Southeast dealer network, which include Georgia, North-Carolina, South-Carolina, Alabama and Florida. If you go on Toyota web site and enter a zip-code from these states, this option will appear. I need to point out that this graphic really doesn't make sense. Also, it appears to me that it will be difficult to get a XRS trim with Side airbags without the DVD navigation system.
  • just_some_guyjust_some_guy Member Posts: 52
    Know anything about a XRS with side airbags AND nav system? That's what I want.
  • blyndgesser1blyndgesser1 Member Posts: 17
    It was shown on the factory sticker (which may be printed by the southeast distributor, for all I know), not as an "addendum" like the usual dealer add-ons (rustproofing et al). From what others have said on this board, it seems pretty consistent that the Southeast customers always get shafted by Toyota. Also interesting: my local dealer (Butler Toyota in Macon, GA) is now showing $1000 ADM (additional dealer markup) on the XR auto they have in stock. My guess is that word has gotten around the dealer network about demand being high. The same dealer had NO '03 Corollas in stock, btw, so maybe the production ramp-up is a bit slow in the Cambridge plant.
  • damax07damax07 Member Posts: 32
    The DVD Navigation system is designed to assist locating point of interest. I am not aware of all the specifications because it is an option I am not considering. But the Side air bags are only mounted on the front seats. I do not see the logic behind the options combinations offered by Toyota. For the Southeast region, when you try the "Build your Own", it allows you to add these features, but when you look at the dealer's inventory, you can't get one without the other, and making the vehicle almost unaffordable for the targeted youth market. Just makes no sense to me.

    Damax07
  • potroastpotroast Member Posts: 13
    If any dealer says you can't get what U want that's available.Walk out. We went 2 Funks ,they got our car within a week,so it can be done.
    Remember the first rule of sales is sell what U have.The second rule of sales is sell what U have.
    Stick 2 U'r guns.And check Toyota on line 2 see what U can get.
  • rpgropperpgroppe Member Posts: 24
    I just ordered the FWD base model Matrix (Automatic trans.). I gave the dealer three color choices and, according to him, they are only shipping the base models with the models with the all weather package.

    He wouldn't say how long the wait would be, anywhere from 2-8 weeks. I'm glad he was honest about being uncertain, better than promising me something he can't deliver.

    Paid a little more than $16k, not a great deal, but for a base model vehicle in a brand new model, a dealer would have to be nuts to sell for below sticker. That price included tags/registration and they hit me up for $100.00 floor mats #$%&@ing dealers!

    The model I test drove was an XR and they were asking $2k over the sticker to drive it off the lot that day (last Saturday 2/16).

    Handled real well had great acceleration to get up to highway speed.
  • jiggerz201jiggerz201 Member Posts: 14
    I am trying to decide between the Toyota Matrix and the Protege 5. Here is how I am comparing them, add any comments if you like.

    Protege5- better handling, cheaper, better seats, been on the market for more time, cleaner lines.

    Matrix-better cargo area, Toyota brand quality, better stature or presence, better standard features (adjustable intermittent wipers, better door lock system, air filter).

    Any thoughts? I am leaning towards the Protege5 today, mainly because of the price but it only $1000 difference.
  • revkarevka Member Posts: 1,750
    You may also want to check out our ongoing Toyota Matrix vs. Mazda Protege5 discussion. Use your copy/paste so you don't have to re-write your message. Good luck with your decision.

    To rpgroppe- Congrats on your new Matrix! We look forward to hearing to hearing more. Happy motoring!

    Revka
    Host
    Hatchbacks & Station Wagons Boards
  • mic5000mic5000 Member Posts: 18
    my two cents:

    I think they are both very stylish. I'm going between #1 wrx (performance, but stylishly out of date) #2 Matrix (style, very modern) #3 protege5 (stylish and costs are low)...

    so i'm in the same boat as you. I look forward to our Dallas autoshow next week!
  • cowdoodoocowdoodoo Member Posts: 7
    I'm trying to buy an XR in New York City and all the dealers are selling at MSRP or above. Has anyone bought one for less than MSRP?

    Also, I got a coupon for $500 of any new Toyota at a local dealer. Is this for real or is it just another Scam to get you into the showroom?
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