New Diesels, who is king, Cummins, Dmax, PSD

bwhbwh Member Posts: 76
edited April 2014 in Ford
Former Chevy fan, bought a Cummins in '92, great engine. The truck fell apart around it though. Needed a new one in '99, bought a PSD, great truck, 120k miles so far. Business is getting busier, need another diesel pick-up. Of course the hot ticket is supposed to be the Duramax/Allison combination. Problem is I really don't care for the rest of the truck. A heavy duty 4wd truck like this should have a solid front axle. Chevy doesn't offer this like Dodge and Ford. The rest of the Chevy still strikes me as geared towards driving like a car. I am also skeptical of the first year problems. I read about the turbo overboosting under big loads. All I do is haul BIG loads. I'm telling you I want to like it.

The Ford is a known quantity for me, it is also cheaper. I may stick with this one.

The Dodge still striks me a an awesome engine looking for a decent home. The Ram seems plauged by front suspension and brake problems. I can only surmise it is a design problem if it hasn't been fixed in 7 years of production.

Sounds like nobody but Chevy has access to the Allison trans for two years. This is possibly the part I seek the most, a good tough trans. Of course time will tell on this new design as well.

So now that I have rambled on, what do you think? Which one and why?


  • ryanbabryanbab Member Posts: 7,240
    From this past weekend

    dmax hands down

    Had a 3500 cummins ext cab 4wd come into work and pick up some plywood shingles and other building materials. Man it was a dog. You could tell by the engine noise it was struggling a bit with the load.

    A little while before this i seen my first dmax/allison. 2500HD 4wd ext cab. We put about 60 sheets of drywall all different sizes 12ft - 4 ft lengths. Truck had no sag and the engine sounded much stronger hauling then unloaded.

    Also you could barely hear the dmax it was just a hair louder than my 5.3.

    I would never go with a diesel no ned for one but the new dmax is one powerful truck.

    Cant speak for the psd.

  • eric2001eric2001 Member Posts: 482
    Why does a solid front axle make or break the truck? All the new regular (read 1/2 ton) trucks are now IFS. GM was the first for the HD's to do this (wasn't GM also first for the IFS in the 1/2 ton market back in '88 - even Dodge has swapped the solid front axle on the new Ram to IFS). It is only a matter of time before they all do it.

    Must be they are just as good, with better off-road capabilities (ie. articulation). Also, take a look at the GM capacities for towing & hauling. Must be just as good, they increased the limits from the solid axle design. Then take them for a ride. You will know why they have switched over.

    The bottom line is they all make a good truck, and you shouldn't be biased by old-world opinions. Just my $.02
  • roger350roger350 Member Posts: 157
    This past weekend I did the GM Truck Drive & Ride, or whatever it is called. First I drove an Ext Cab 2wd 2500HD with the Duramax/Allison. My gosh, it was incredible. They had about a 4% grade that was about 200 yards long to test these things on. Empty that Duramax accelerated quicker than my 6.0L. Diesels aren't supposed to do that! It didn't even feel like a diesel, as empty there was no noticable turbo lag.

    Then they had Dodge, Ford, and GMC 3500 duallies, set up with 3500 lbs. in their beds, and 4000 lb. trailers behind. Everything was supposed to be pretty closely matched, but who knows if rear axles were the same, etc.? The Dodge was about 800 lbs. lighter than the others as it was only an extended cab, (others were crew), and it had only a 3500 lb. trailer. The Dodge was slow and steady up that grade, with no need to hit the brakes at the top before turning right, as it wasn't going fast enough. And yeah, it was loud! The Ford was noticabley quicker than the Dodge up the hill, but still didn't require braking before turning. The GMC was very quick up the hill. Pulled and pulled, and was going way too fast to make the turn at the top. I had to get on the brakes pretty hard to get the rig ready for the turn. It was a very interesting display of the three trucks. If it was apples to apples as far as rear gear and everything, then the Duramax is hands down the most powerfull engine in stock form. With the weight back there, the Dmax had just the slighest hint of turbo lag, enough to notice it, but no big deal. My buddies '01 PSD has terrible lag even when empty. Around town, unloaded, the Dmax feels like a gass engine, a really strong gas engine.
  • chevytruck_fanchevytruck_fan Member Posts: 432
    DMAX would be winner if it was a little louder (to cut down on cab noise just put more insulation in) , and it is part Izusu.

    So because all I want are Chevy's, I will buy a 82-99 to get the Detroit Diesel.

    Why couldn't the go with CAT?
  • bwhbwh Member Posts: 76
    First we need to clear up the misconception of IFS giving superior off-road articulation. Look under any serious off road machine and you will find a solid front axle, Land Rover, Jeeps, including the latest Grand Cherokees, my M-B Gwagen. Please don't mention that pile of junk Hummer. Yes the 1/2 ton trucks all come with IFS. I don't want a 1/2 ton, I need a one ton. It needs to carry a heavy V-plow to plow my 10 acre lot. I know this is hard on the IFS trucks, it is just not a HD solution. It is a solution for the car drivers who want trucks, re;compromise.

    Roger350, very interesting comparo. Power isn't the big issue here. They all have tons of it and can be easily modified to have much more. I am enamored by the allison, definately looks to be the best thing to happen to HD trucks in a long time.

    chevytruckfan, Cat doesn't make anything remotely close to fitting in a pick-up right now. I agree that would make for quite a truck if they ever did decide to do it.
  • quadrunner500quadrunner500 Member Posts: 2,721
    I guess I wonder why that Hummer with both better ground clearance, and lower center of gravity is a pile of junk we're not supposed to mention?
  • roger350roger350 Member Posts: 157
    Agree, Solid axles have far better articulation. People who bring up the Hummer seem to dismiss the fact that its IFS/IRS has like a 20-30" travel or more. With 6-10" travel in a normal truck, articulation is much better with a straight axle.

    If the Allison is all it is advertised to be, it is a stud, and quite possibly the only automatic that can truly handle a diesel. When Dodge gets them they will have a total powertrain. If they can build a truck around it they will kill everyone else's sales. But, I still can't get past the terrible Chrysler image of poor reliability.

    As far as CAT, I heard from a dealer way back about 3-4 years ago that the "New" GM diesel was going to be a CAT. In fact, the guy had a GM printed poster advertising a CAT engine. Seems like all the magazines were leaking that rumor back then too? Something must have fallen through, I heard CAT told GM to go shove it? Who knows? But, people make way too much noise about the Isuzu deal on the DMAX. I believe the engine was designed here, and it is built here, all by Americans. It just so happens that some of the Americans designing/building it draw a paycheck from a company based in Japan, and hence some of the profit goes back there too. Big deal, get over it.
  • chevytruck_fanchevytruck_fan Member Posts: 432
    the fact is Izusu is still associated with it, and I don't want a japanese company making money off of my purchase. And yes I know there are probably a couple percent japanese components in these trucks.

    Its interesting that Dodge is going to have a GM transmission in their truck (Allison is a division of GM), thats going to be fun to harass the dodge owners about lol
  • bwhbwh Member Posts: 76
    ...I am trying to put together a deal on a Duramax/Allison. My dealer needs to trade and the other dealer is being a little reluctant, no surprise since they are currently VERY scarce.

    chevytruck, wake up man! This is a global economy, is your TV made in the USA? Better throw that out too. I'm not sure on the deal with Isuzu, but they are either just a supplier or mabye only the original designer and the engine is built by GM. Either way they are a really small part of the picture. Don't worry GM makes enough on each of these pick-ups to easily fuel their coffers. It just doen't make any sense to say you would buy the old 6.5, that engine is a well know pile of junk. You are going way beyond patriotism and venturing into stupidity.

    Hummer, tell me what good this beast is to a civillian? It is too big for off road trails, too big for the average garage, painfully slow, uncomfortable, unreliable and not nearly as good off road as you may have been led to believe. The Marines and Army Rangers have taken delivery of Mercedes Geleandewagens for evaluation. They have found them more capable and reliable than the Hummer in almost every task. They only fall short in ultimate payload. Sorry, I just have this vendetta against them and the misconceptions that surround them.
  • jim4444jim4444 Member Posts: 124
    Everyone seems to forget Mercury Marine. They made the 4 cam 'vette engine and also were involved in the Duramax project from what I have read.

    So that means GM and a company they have controlling interest in (Isuzu) and a company they have worked with before all collaborated on this engine.

    I haven't had the pleasure of driving a new Silverado with the Duramax but wouldn't you guys agree that its alot better than the old 6.2, 6.5?

    I think the reason GM went this route is because the 6.2 wasn't a very popular diesel with mechanics or owners.

    I like GM products but have you ever changed the valve covers on a 6.2?

    First step: remove fuel injection lines. WTF??

    Ever have to "fish" the swelled up glow plugs out?

    GM went out of their way to make it look like a gas engine with those lines covering the valve covers and putting the injectors in a location that spark plugs would normally be.

    On the International (Ford) and Cummins diesel you dont have this nonsense.

    I've heard many things about the old 6.2, mainly that GM basically converted a 350 gas engine to become a diesel with as little changes as possible to a Detroit Diesel engineer saying that they didn't want their name on that engine.
  • roger350roger350 Member Posts: 157
    Yeah, the funny thing is, everything on the Dodge trucks actually made by Dodge sucks. It will have a great Cummins engine, a great GM tranny, but the dodge content is what drags them down. Is DANA a Chrysler company? If so, the axles would be the one good Dodge part, but I can't recall if DANA is independent or not?

    As for the Japaneese thing, didn't mean to aggitate you. To each his own.
  • nofeernofeer Member Posts: 381
    heard some time ago that ford is replacing the 7.2 liter diesel and has developed two new diesels
    a 4 and 6 liter, and plan to put it in the expedition and the f150. any thoughts or links. the diesel will help the larger truchs and SUV's and the new technology makes them better. Motor trend made the Chevy i think truck of the year.
  • knight9knight9 Member Posts: 2
    If my info. is right Cummins is owned by Ford. So if Dodge has a Ford engine and a GM tranny and those are the only things that last and don't fall off why would any one buy a 1/2 or gas Dodge.

    P.S. inside info on the 2002 Motor Trend truck of the year The all new DODGE RAM. If anyone form Motor Trend is reading this please don't even send me this issue.
  • roger350roger350 Member Posts: 157
    Yeah, Cummins is either partially or totaly owned by Ford, or something like that. As I recall, when they bought them or whatever, there was some agreement that Dodge had exclusive rights to the inline 6 engines for X amount of years. If Ford wanted one in their pickups, they'd have to use an 8 or some other configuration? But then again, I think on the really big Fords, F550 etc. you can get any engine you want, including a Cummins?

    For info on the New Ford (Navistar) diesels go to Even though it is a GM site, they have a section on the Fords in their Forum. It will also point you to the Ford site, which I can't remember? The new Ford diesels will be incredible. A much bigger leap than the DMAX. They will be camless, using solenoids to open the valves. Huge reduction in friction, and infinitely adjustable valve timing. They will blow everyone away with more torque and horsepower. I hope they get some good transmissions behind them though, otherwise they will be severly strangled by the weakest link, like the Cummins is now.

    As for why people buy Dodge trucks with gas motors, the politicaly correct reason is Mopar loyalty. The real reason is that there is a sucker born every minute. But then again, I guess the two are linked?
  • 2t1a2t1a Member Posts: 7
    Can't help myself - hope I don't step on anyone's toes.
    Actually Ford owns very little (if any) of Cummins. There was a time, about 10-12 years ago when they owned about 10-15%, however they sold out at least 5 years ago. I believe that the biggest shareholders of Cummins are a couple of funds (either a mutual fund, or some large retirement fund) which own something like 7-8% each. This information is available several places, including yahoo's finance site.
    Regarding Dodge quality, I have been very surprised by my parent's 2500. They've put 180,000 miles on it in 3 years, half or more pulling trailers. So far, they've replaced a fuel pump (I think it was a Bosch part, but am not sure). The cruise was inop in some -10 weather last winter, and the clutch switch (starter lockout) didn't engage twice but otherwise that's it. I drove it the other day, and the interior is surprisingly tight - as tight as our Expedition with 1/3 the miles :-( I'm not particularly a Dodge fan, but given what I've seen, I think some of the criticism on Dodge build quality is unwarranted.
    My gut feel is that all three are pretty decent engines, with a potential fuel economy edge going to Cummins, and possibly other advantages (as noted above) to the others.
  • roger350roger350 Member Posts: 157
    Glad to hear your parents truck is a good one. Dodge/Chrysler has a tough row to hoe, to overcome the perception of their quality, or lack there of. Many of us will never let go of our ideas. But, I can say, from about 5 personal friends experiences with Dodge/Chrysler products, their quality is still very hit or miss at best. i told all five of these people not to buy Dodge/Chrysler products. They all did anyway, becasue, "the designs were so cool." They all sold after about 2 years of nothing but trouble. Only one of them had a Ram, the rest were various cars. But, as much as I hated to see my friends lose money like this, inside all I could think was, "I told you so."

    Also glad you corrected our missinformation about Ford's ownership of Cummins.

    Just read on that Ford will not be getting a camless diesel as I originally posted. Apparently someone talked with an International/Navistar employee and found out that the camless technology is only being applied to the bigger engines right now, and wouldn't make it into a Ford product until maybe 2007-10. I, as everyone else, was deeply disappointed to hear that. But, they did say the 6.0L Ford product would be class leading when it comes out in 2002-03. I think they will all one-up each other for years to come. As a GM fan, it is nice to see GM finally get into the game with the Duramax.
  • rs_pettyrs_petty Member Posts: 423
    I know most who buy a diesel use it because of the longevity/economy when towing/hauling heavy loads. With the recent price increases in gasoline and predictions to go to $3/gal is a diesel an alternative? I currently drive a 1/2 ton which gets about 19 hwy. Can a diesel pickup be configured to maximize economy? I've had pickups for the last 25 years and hate the thought of going to an economy car for mileage, but I also don't use a truck for heavy duty chores either. If you had to configure a combination now, what would it be (engine/trans/axle ratio), or would you wait and see what the new ford small diesels are going to be. If I had a wish it would be a crew cab pickup that gets about 25-30 hwy.
  • hunter98hunter98 Member Posts: 273
    What you need is a pickup that is first of all 2wd. The lighter the better also. Probable, the ultimate for milage would be a new Dodge with the new CC 2wd cummins 6spd standard output. With the highest ratio gearset you can get. Like 3.55, 4.10 are way too low. The duramax's problem for milage is that you can't get the RPMs low enough with the 3.73 to get great Highway milage. They need 3.42 rear end to be optional. Also, you want the standard sized tires. Taller and wider tires decrease milage, as well as a taller truck creates more suction. With the dodge and the ford, the auto really sux down the milage. The milage with the duramax/allison is less than the ford and dodge with the right rear end and manuals. The 6spd duramax appears a bit better than the allison, but not much. What you need is a Chevy CC 2wd 2500HD, Duramax/Allison, standard tires, lower it 2" to reduce suction. Bedcover, 3.42 rear end if chevrolet ever offers it.

  • rs_pettyrs_petty Member Posts: 423
    2500HD is what I was trying to spec/price out on Buypower, but no prices since they have gone to '02 list. The 3.73 may not be too bad with the 6 speed (off hand though I can't remember final drive ratios between the Allison and 6spd with a 3.73). Off course taller tires would reduce the ratio a little. 255/85's might work well for highway mileage, but maybe hurt a little for city driving. Some PSD guys are reporting low 20's with filter, exhaust and chip mods. The extra weight of the CC doesn't help, but everything is a trade off. 22-24 might be doable with lower speeds. Wonder if any of the aftermarket guys are looking at reprogramming from a fuel economy perspective. Still, at least in my local area, diesel is still about the same price as premium. I liked my idea better when it was about 50-60 cents cheaper.
  • rs_pettyrs_petty Member Posts: 423
    Just doing a little more research and thoughts. Using the calculators at I find that 65 mph w/3.73 gear ratio, 33" tires (255/85 just happen to be 33's), and a .73 (guessing the ZF is around this somewhere, but can't find it for sure) tranny ratio equals 1801 rpm which just happens to be at the max torque rating for the Duramax. This should yield the best theoretical mileage. Anybody just happen to have this combination or similar to comment on?
  • roger350roger350 Member Posts: 157
    Unless the prices become widely different, it takes about 100-150K miles to break even on gas mileage because of the up-front cost of the diesel. Plus, you have to consider time value of money too, because paying $5-7K extra upfront, as opposed to investing that money, and your break even point goes out even further.

    I considered the Duramax for mileage reasons, but basically decided that it wasn't the way to go. And unless unleaded goes up to $3.00 and diesel stays at $1.50, I'd say the decision was the right one.

    Why is it that we are more worried about saving money by getting great gas mileage, instead of saving it up front by buying a gas engine that eats more an a weekly basis? It is one of those weird physcological things.
  • hunter98hunter98 Member Posts: 273
    With the stock setup, 1800 RPM is like 61.4 Miles per hour. With the 255x85R16 size tires, 1800 RPM is 66.5 miles per hour. So you just increased your Miles per hour range for max economy by 5 miles an hour. The same results could also be achieved if GM would offer a 3.42 rear end. 235x85R16 tires and a 3.42 rear end would achieve the maximum economy with the duramax. You would be turning right at 1800 RPM at 70 miles an hour, 2067 at 80, 1550 at 60 miles an hour. This puts the RPMs where a road truck should play. 50 miles per hour would be at around 1300 rpm, which is about as low as you would go in high gear. But it would be a great milage transmission. On another note, if you had to downshift to run in 4th to pull a load at 60 miles per hour, this rpm is 2183 rpms, which is ideal, and the speed that you should pull at on a highway or interstate. This should increase the milage on the highway by 2-3 miles per gallon, and shouldn't affect it in the city. So instead of 18 on the interstate get 21. Another thing is, with a higher ratio, give is a 4th gear selecter to lock out fifth gear while towing at a reasonable speed. Since 4th at 60 would be just less than 2200 RPMs.

    If GM will produce this truck in CC 4x4 with the 3.42, Duramax/Allison I may be very interested. Oh yeah, the ZF, is .72 and 1.0, the allison is .71 and 1.0.

  • rs_pettyrs_petty Member Posts: 423
    Understand your point well. In fact it would take about $15K for me to get from current truck to a Duramax. That's a whole lot of gas for potentially only 4-5 mpg increase. Just an exercise in thought since in fact gas and diesel are very close in price. Maybe I should look at CNG which is about 1/2 the price of unleaded I think. One of the reasons I look at economy is because fuel is a major out of pocket, right now money, not what is sitting in a mutual fund somewhere.
  • 4x44x4 Member Posts: 114
    Ford sold out their small share years ago..
  • 4x44x4 Member Posts: 114
  • quadrunner500quadrunner500 Member Posts: 2,721
    The ZF-6 tranny in Duramax 4x4 (3.73), is turning highway rpms in 6th, as close as I can tell, about 1800 rpm at 60 mph indicated. That's on par with the 5.3L 4.10 combo on my previous 1500.

    I thought the same thing, rpms could be a bit lower for highway, 3.42 about perfect. My buddy's 97 Power Stroke 5 speed can't pull more than 85 (give or take, can't remember what he told me exactly) before he's done. Says he is running up in the yellow area of the tach too. Wishes he had the automatic.

    Nevertheless, first tank seems to be getting good economy. Don't have the numbers yet, I speculate 18-20 mpg, city/highway/mountain mix. Have about 375 miles since dealer topped up, (34 gal tank), indicates above half full. Again, about he same, maybe slightly better than 5.3L gas w/ 34 gal tank. (You never go as far on the 2nd half of the gauge)

    Empty, truck would pull Monarch Pass, 11,600 feet in 6th gear. Gets real curvy, and you have to slow down near the summit, so dropped to 5th so as not to lug.

    Back on the flats, tromp on it at 60 mph in 6th, leaps to 97 mph faster than my 5.3L would have. Satisfied so far...of course am only on day 2.
  • chevytruck_fanchevytruck_fan Member Posts: 432
    lol thats a Chevy thing, I get awesome milege the first half of the tank then really bad milege...hehe translates into ok milege.
  • bwhbwh Member Posts: 76
    I got 16 mpg on the first tank, mostly highway driving. I is working now beside my '99 PSD auto 3.73 rear as well. They will both be pulling near max gvw everday. Should make for an interesting real world comparo. The Ford has about 125k miles right now. I definately comes off as more of a workhorse than the slick duramax. The Chevy turned 1000 miles on friday. I suspect it will be a while before the comparison is fair. After 10k miles the PSD seemed even more gutsy than when new.
  • ad2avitad2avit Member Posts: 12
    Just a joke. I've been away from your posts and I really got an education reading up. But I will eventually need a diesel mechanic since I ordered a Duramax. Nuff said about me. You guys/gals are so better educated than me. I hope by adding a few comments, please don't take any offense,
    to ellicit your comments and to better educate myself and everyone. Okay here goes:
    Quadrunner500 - Your one of the lucky ones to own a 6SP - Consider it a "one-er"
    Hunter98- Your forgetting the reason for the 2001 Hd is for Pull/Hauling Power. ie: a sailboat sure gets better mileage than a powerboat.
    Roger350- If you buy the Duramax and hold onto it for 5years or so, and do a lot of traveling then its even.
    RS Petty - The Hd were designed to pull a lot not
    get great gas mileage.
    Again I hope I've not offended anyone - I'm sure waiting for my Duramax to a haul 3500 lb Camper and trailerboat and Kyack.
    PS: My worse "not buying decision" was a 1992 Allison 1-Ton Dually. I turned away because it was'nt an extended cab. I hope all pickemup truck fans hope that the Dodge truck survives.
  • ad2avitad2avit Member Posts: 12
    The 1992 Dodge was not an Allison (must be on my mind), But it was a sweetheart- jet Black with a tan or desert color bottom (still on my mind)
  • quadrunner500quadrunner500 Member Posts: 2,721
    6sp is fun. But the reason they are rare, is that not many buyers want them. Anyway, I bought it 2drive, not sell.
  • ad2avitad2avit Member Posts: 12
    Rite on - the only reason I didn't order the 6-sp is because delivery would be delayed, I believe the jargon is restraints. But good luck to you and keep on trucking. However I would hope that you would post your MPG from time to time. I mean approximate/monthly. No one expects you to keep a detailed account of your city/hwy driving, but I lot of posters would sure appreciate your monthly average MPG.

    Hunter98- Change your field of expertise - design a duramax with 3:10 ratio which would get 29 MPH. But you have to understand the engineers/marketing point of view. I guess that if all you guys keep plugging , it will happen. I can just imagine a Duramax in a 1500 with a 3:42 getting 29 MPG
  • quadrunner500quadrunner500 Member Posts: 2,721
    ....if you put a 3.42 instead of the 3.73, coupled to the 6 speed manual, starting out in 2nd gear would require more clutch slippage. If it was enough you had to start out in 1st gear, that would be a pain, since it's a granny gear.


    My first tank is in. Seems a little too good to be true at 22.2 mpg, 60/40 highway mountain/city.

    I put on 410 miles. With gauge reading 1/2 full, I decided to top it up. I let the automatic shutoff stop it, then started it again after a few moments. Dealer may have overfilled it, since spilled some on paint. If I could have stuffed another gallon and a half in there, still would net 20 mpg.

    It's regular cab model, so anyway you slice it, it's a smaller truck and should do better than a crew cab or dually.

  • ad2avitad2avit Member Posts: 12
    Forgive me for changing the subject - but regarding the quality of Dodge trucks. I've been a subscriber to Trailer Boats Magazine for 21 years and every year they award the TB tow vehicle of the year. Vehicles vary, some years it's a SUV, 1/2, 3/4 or 1-ton trucks/diesel or Gas. These trucks are put through rigorous tow/performance tests and also denoting best MPG ie: best performance through a varity of tests. Their 2000 Year Tow vehicle of the year in the 3/4 ton Gas category was the Dodge V-10. This was against the Ford V-10 and the Chevy 6.0 V-8. This was before Chevy introduced it's new HD lineup The results of the Test are:
    Towing : Dodge 422 Chevy: 365 Ford: 413

    Nontowing: Includes Significance, price, performance/handling, fuel economy, comfort/layout

    TOTALS: Dodge: 94 Chevy: 109 FORD: 97

    TOTALS: 516 474 510

    Nuff said about Dodge quality/performance in the Gas category and we all know how the the Diesel is.
  • chevytruck_fanchevytruck_fan Member Posts: 432
    I dont understand, what sizes were the truck, cause it seems to me like a pretty unfair comparo with the biggest dodge and ford motor, and the smaller 3/4 ton 1 ton motor.
  • roger350roger350 Member Posts: 157
    So what did that test prove about quality? I see nothing in the listed categories about build quality? So the Dodge V-10 beats the Ford V-10, and the small Chevy V-8, wow. Try that test again with the new 8.1L, and I think Chevy would sweep it in all categories. It already beat them both in the non-performance categories.

    I don't want to get into a pissing contest, because you aren't going to change my mind, and I'm not going to change yours. I hope your Dodges are all great trucks. Have a good one.
  • ryanbabryanbab Member Posts: 7,240
    They just had the new 8.1 and duramax on there.

    They loved the new engines. Basically said they are ahead of everyone now in the HD class. Even showed then towing a ford SD on a trailer.

  • quadrunner500quadrunner500 Member Posts: 2,721
    Chevy Duramax and 8.1L put Ford and Dodge out to pasture! (kidding)

    Being best in class, (or whatever) is always a moving target. The reign at the top is never long. Best to just buy what you like, and enjoy it for what it is. Six months later, something else will come along to knock it down. It's what keeps us coming back!
  • jcmdiejcmdie Member Posts: 594
    The Dodge/Allison rumor was more wishful thinking than anything else. Dodge and/or Cummins are working on a new transmission for the diesel. There are a number of write-ups on this on
  • warfishwarfish Member Posts: 117
    I tow a 12000 lb fifth wheel with my 2001 Dodge Cummins 2500 Quad Auto, All through the mountains of PA, WV, VA, NC & SC with no problems with any of the hills. My gearing is 3.51 and mileage averages about 12 - 13. In talking to other campers, with Cummins and Power Strokes, it seems that all the Cummins run 3.51 gears, and the Power Strokes with 4.11. If the PSD is such a strong engine, why does it need such a high rear end ratio to do the job?
    While on the subject of the PSD, how come no builder of Motor home chassis puts that engine in their diesel pushers? Cummins and Cat own that market.
    As far a the Duramax is concerned, I suspect it will blow everything else away until the competition comes up with something better.
  • ryanbabryanbab Member Posts: 7,240
    Just curious (not to start a war) but has anyone had a duramax next to a cummins?

    few weekends back at work we had a 3500 cummins and a 2500 duramax in the same aisle (lumber yard). Another employee walked down and told the guy (dodge) he needs to get one of those diesel engines. He said thats no diesel the employee said go take a look. Guys jaw dropped when he heard and sen the duramax. He seriously didnt believe it till he seen it.

    I couldnt believe it till i heard it also. very quiet

  • chevytruck_fanchevytruck_fan Member Posts: 432
    another reason I will buy a 6.5 instead of the duramax if I buy a diesel down the road.

    It doens't sound like a diesel, that 30% of the reason to buy a diesel.
  • quadrunner500quadrunner500 Member Posts: 2,721
    ...still noisy. I think the biggest advantage the Power Stroke has over Cummins, (if it has one) is displacement, 5.9 for Cummins versus something over 7 liter (don't remember exactly) for the PSD.

    But I think the biggest advantage the Duramax has over either, is the transmission choices.

    There may be some other smaller advantages, maybe some disadvantages. I don't know. DM is my first diesel, I'm naturally a bit biased. But those other two are still among the best and most popular of all truck engines.

    I think the reason Power Stroke Diesel is not in motorhome chassis is simply all the production is spoken for in pickup trucks, all they can make.

    Rumor I heard some time ago is that DamnearChrysler was going to drop the Cummins for a Mercedes Benz diesel anyway.
  • bwhbwh Member Posts: 76
    Instead of using them iun MH applications they find their way into Scoolbuses and many other medium duty international applications. Anybody who bought the PSD with the 4.10 ratio was crazy. Mine pulls max gvw with 3.73s every day no problem.
  • roger350roger350 Member Posts: 157
    Check out post #4 in this topic for my side-by-side comparison of the three diesels. The D-Max is awesome!
  • bp53bp53 Member Posts: 23
    I recently read where the top speed you can obtain with a cummins, duramax, or power stroke is around 90 mph. Since I don't know much about diesel engines, can someone tell me if this is true. This sounds unbelievable. I had thought about getting a diesel engine in my next truck, but if the top speed is only 90, I think I will stick to gas. Also, if true, why is this so?
  • roger350roger350 Member Posts: 157
    I don't know where you read that, but I don't think the engines are what limit the trucks. Silverados are all electronically limited to like 98 MPH. The limiter can be defeated with the purchase of an HPIII programer for about $300. The limiter is there because of the speed rating on the tires.
  • bwhbwh Member Posts: 76
    Let me kno which roads you regularly drive. If you intend to run one of these beasts faster than 90 you may be certifiable. These things lack the brakes,suspension and as mentioned, tires to run safely at those speeds. I think a good solid 80mph is about all I feel comfortable with, in a big truck like these. Don't pass me off as some pokey driver either, this past weekend I ran my Porsche on the track at over 150mph. I have a '99 F350 and a '01 Silverado HD, both drive really well for what they are. Please don't try to drive them like cars, they were never designed to do so.
  • dodgeramdodgeram Member Posts: 202
    Dodge just announced in a press confrence that there keeping cummins on board for the next generation hd truck arriving in fall 2002. They say the new diesel (6 cylinder inline) I think 6.1liter, is so quiet that even inside a closed garage the engine is barely audible. It's got something to do with the new block and head design, which they have already patented. It's for sure going to have more power then the current diesel, and overall vs the duramax.
    Go to for all the info.
  • jcmdiejcmdie Member Posts: 594
    The new 3/4 and 1 ton Dodge will not be out until the 2003 model yera. Only the 1/2 is being redone for 2002 and that will not offer a diesel.
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