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Comments
And people think the Altima's interior looks cheap. Their own "merits" include some of the cheapest interiors produced today. I could not live with and look at a cheap dash with flimsy plastics. Yes, they have power, acceleration, good 1/4 mile times. So does the Maxima, and after haggling you will get one at the same price as the GTP. The GTP is a real nice car, just wish they spent more time on the interior.
ludacris:
"The GTP is a real nice car, just wish they spent more time on the interior" - doesn't it sound the same as what people are bitching and moaning about the 2002 Altima in this forum?
Also Maxima with auto tranny cannot touch the GTP or Regal GS with auto tranny.
But all this time when the Maxima was for sale, it was going up against the V6 Accords and Camrys while the Altima went up against the 4-cylinder Camcords.... This was Nissan's strategy, which to a certain extent, went fairly well. As others have stated in here, I don't think Nissan has to make this car priced like a Hyundai just because it doesn't have the Toyota and Honda badge on it. The Altima should definitely sticker close to the Accord, while offering slightly more. Despite some controversy with the "cheap interior" that no one in here has seen yet, I think this car is worth waiting another month for.
"But all this time when the Maxima was for sale, it was going up against the V6 Accords and Camrys while the Altima went up against the 4-cylinder Camcords.... This was Nissan's strategy, which to a certain extent, went fairly well."
Actually for the past few years the Maxima has outsold V6 Accords and Camrys combined...if I'm not mistaken.
ludacris - Grand Prix's interior has been called very ergonomic by many reviewers. If it is the texture of the plastic that you don't like, then GP is not for you. But hey, the new Altima has a big chunk of HARD plstic right in the center console. Plus it is colored like an 80's ghetto boombox (as one cleverly noted before)
I don't know why all the car magazines keep posting prices when they really don't know what the prices are going to be.
Yes the Altima interior has hard plastic down the center, alot of cars have hard plastic around that area, just not all the way to the windshield. The brown looked ghetto, but there are other colors...
By the way, were you born in Russia?
The Civic is a nice car but is way over priced.
I personally don't find anything especially cheap about Altima's interior and like the car a lot in general.
I was just saying that the dealers should not try to gouge. There are quite a few other cars there that offer this power.
ALso the GP does not have hard plastic all the way to the window. It is padded vinyl for the most part and just the face of the dash is hard.
However, if the prices were similar, most Civics are available for around invoice, so it really wouldn't be $18K anyway.
Some reasons would be because they want a smaller package and better gas mileage and better resale value.
A base Altima will be super stripped witn no radio, no A/C, so it would not have ABS, moonroof, CD, power windows and locks and cruise control like a Civic EX sedan.
A Civic sedan is smaller than an Altima, but it has a roomy back seat compared to Nissan's Sentra.
They plan on having a waiting list and a lottery contest to have a chance to buy the first ones that is available for sale.
He said that the car is amazing and demand for the car is going to be unbelievable.
I'm not sure this is going to be true. It could be hype.
I don't think that's the case. The Maxima is the only one competing against all of Accord/Camry.
The old Altima is not a match for Accord/Camry. It's not even in the same class. It's a large compact, not a midsize car.
It's more or less in the same class (size and performance) as the Ford Contour. It's not big enough to be a family car, but it's bigger than a economy car.
Only the Maxima, a midsize car, is in the same class as the Camcords. So you have to compare sales figure agains the whole Accord/Camry line. And as such, Maxima can not compete sales wise.
"I don't think Nissan has to make this car priced like a Hyundai just because it doesn't have the Toyota and Honda badge on it."
No, of course they shouldn't price it like a Hyundai. Nissan has a much better reputation than that. But let's face the facts. Nissan is probably considered by most people to be a 2nd tier Japanese brand (1st tier being Toyota/Honda). It shares pretty much the same level of reputation and reliability as Mazda. While still better than 3rd tier Japanese brands such as Isuzu/Suzuki, it can't command same kind of price as Toyota/Hondas and still expect it to out sell those 2 famous automakers.
I want Nissan to succeed, so I hope they have more sense than price it like an Accord/Camry. I think it should price it lower than Accord/Camry but little more than Mazda 626.
a) Ill-informed
b) Stupid
c) Creating some kind of a hype
d) All of the above
Same car sans Nav would be 29,845, still pretty high.
For the full MSRP list on the 2002 Maxima,
Go to nissannews.com
click on pic of 2002 Altima, which will bring you
a 2002 vehicles page, click on the Maxima.
At top, click on "Pricing"
Please note that one of the features touted during the last redesign was "more dent resistant fenders and doors" so I clearly wasn't the only person who felt this way.
Lets just hope the latest re-design continues the trend towards thicker metal.
By the time I sold my Altima after 3 years, it looked like crap. All my other cars looked new and I kept them longer.
The tester 2.5S has an estimated base price of $18,750 and an as tested price of an estimated $21,500 which includes the convenience pkg for the S so thats about $2750 for that and I'm not sure if that's including destination or not, so a MSRP of 26K doesn't seem out of the ballpark for a fully loaded 3.5SE
Nissan also estimates the 0-60 time for the manual V-6 at 7.0 seconds and for the manual 4-cylinder at 8.5 seconds
I think it should price it lower than Accord/Camry but little more than Mazda 626.
The last time I checked, I think a fully loaded Mazda 626 ES V6 cost pretty much the same as the Accord EX V6, and it's been that way for the longest time (unless Mazda is offering some major discounts nowadays -- but their MSRPs are pretty much the same). With that in mind, isn't Mazda a 3rd class Japanese car compared to Honda and Toyota (if you could call Mazda a "Japanese" brand anymore)? And yet, they didnt feel it was necessary to price it any lower than the highly successful Accord -- and that's with a smaller engine and similar contents. Pretty much the same goes for the Mitshubishi Galant -- equipped pretty much the same as an Accord, slower than both the Camry and the Accord (V6 models) but it costs the same as an Accord. So, how do Mazda and Mitshubishi sell enough to put food on the table? Simple! They look better on the outside and not everyone has them.... Nissan certainly has a better name recognition than Mazda and Mitshubishi, and thus, my claim that a decked out Altima SE V6 will be around $26K.
aia1: I don't know what your experience with "thin sheet metal" on cars have been, but it would seem that thinner -- and thus, more flexible -- sheetmetal would be more resistant to minor dents, well, that is, if Nissan didn't use tin foils. But this Altima is much more upscale than the old and I haven't heard anyone complain about the thin sheetmetal on a Maxima these days, so hopefully, the body will hold up well.
ruski: pretty perceptive of you. With all the road rage out there, I guess a person's true nature comes out most when they're driving behind the wheel. Hey, I like animals a lot.
1. Toyota/Honda
2. Nissan
3. Mazda
4. Suzuki/Mitsubishi/Isuzu
aia1: Our 2000 Maxima has one pretty bad dent on the front passenger side door courtesy of a Ford Expedition. I'm not sure how hard the person swung the door at our car, but unless that person really tried to tip our car over with the force from his/her door the car shouldn't have that dent...Maybe Nissan still has thin metal, but so far it's just that one dent.
http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=3971&n=156,178&sid=178
BUT! They squeak and rattle just like everyone else's. VW uses nice materials, but they use the same crappy "fasteners" that every other auto manufacturer uses.
it's not the price, it's not the engine. It's the size, and the market segment the car is in. The Maxima is the only midsize car Nissan has. And Accord/Camry is the midsize car Honda/Toyota has.
Altima is NOT a midsize car, it's a larger compact. Is not in the same market segment (it's in the Ford Contour's market segment). Altima is not a competition for the Accord/Camry 4 bangers because it's not big enough to fill the role that people by Accord/Camry for -- a middle class family transport. Only the Maxima is. Most people don't cross shop Camry/Accord and the Altima. So that's why Maxima is compete's with the entire Accord/Camry line up.
This is the same reason why you never see a Accord/Camry/Altima comparison test. It's always the Camry/Accord/Maxima comparo.
"The last time I checked, I think a fully loaded Mazda 626 ES V6 cost pretty much the same as the Accord EX V6, and it's been that way for the longest time (unless Mazda is offering some major discounts nowadays -- but their MSRPs are pretty much the same)."
The street price for the Mazda 626 is much lower than the Accord. It's because of the Incentives and rebates. And that's been the longest time, almost the entire year-round. Now I don't see the point of putting out rebates year-round, better to price it just $2000 less than the Accord in the first place.
Now, the Accord EX-V6 goes for $25K MSRP. To sell the Altima for $26K is pretty ignorant of the market preferences. If I'm any indication of a ordinary car buyer, I wouldn't choose an Altima over the Accord because (1) Honda is a more reliable brand (2) Honda has much higher resale value (3) Honda is more recongized (4) Altima has a underwhelming track record.
Ignoring 3 of the points. The resale value alone is enough to make the Accord a better deal if the prices are the same. Sure the Altima has a bigger engine. But who could possibly in their right mind claim that the Accord V6 isn't a fast car? And also, the Accord V6 gets 20/28 mpg. The better fuel economy also further adds to the Accord's value.
Now if we also consider the other 3 advantages the Accord has, I think you will see that if the Altima is priced at $26K, and the Accord cost $25K, the market is going to swing towards the Accord.
Now like I stated in an earlier post. I think Nissan at most, should not MSRP the Altima above $25K. I think most people wouldn't consider it if costs more than the Accord. Even at $25K, the success of the Altima is ify, it assumes that the majority of the buyers would car more about the engine size than other aspects. IMHO, for Nissan to assure a market hit, it should price it about $1000 less than the Accord, which is still more than $1000 more than Mazda 626 with it's year long rebate).
have to compare sales figure agains the whole Accord/Camry line. And as such,
Maxima can not compete sales wise."
Please, it is ridiculous to say that you should compare a maxima with a 4 cylinder camry or accord, you say that the old altima doesn't compare against the 4 cylinder camcords, but only in size and there is not a huge difference, no more than the difference in size between the maxima and the V6 camcords and you have no problem stacking them against each other. plus 155 hp vs 135 and 150.
Also it amazes me that toyota can do no wrong with the camry. They could make the dash board out of paper mache' and you would read dozens of reviews about their "unique approach" and "environmentally friendly manufacturing processes", and you would have members in here talking about the high quality paper they used and it is much better than the old cheap plastic stuff other manufacturers use and toyota would be laughing all the way to the bank. Look at what they did to the current camry, they cut out galvanized steel on the inside, they cut down on the amount of weatherstripping around the doors, (take a look at the bottom of the driver's door, nothing there!) and generally cut corners all around so they could lower the prices, but very few articles when the camry came out picked up on that. The camry is a great car, but it wasn't put on the lots by the hand of god and there are some exciting alternatives in the market now and around the corner.
Look, don't take my word for it. Take Edmund's, the automotive authority's words for it.
Here is what Edmund's show as Altima's competitors.
www.edmunds.com/new/2001/nissan/altima/gxe4drsedan24l4cyl5m/compare.html?id=lin0010
Notice, NO ACCORD OR CAMRY (4 cylinder or not) is listed. Instead, it's compared to VW Jetta, Olds Alero, Pontiac Grand Am, and even the economy Honda Civic.
All of them are various kinds of compacts. No midsize is listed. Why? Becasue the Altima is a compact car. It's NOT a midsize car. My wife's 96 Mazda Protege (a compact car) is actually roomier than the Altima.
The Altima is not a competition for Accord or Camry 4 cylinders or 6 cylinder, who are the bread and butter middle class family car. This is not "ridiculous". I'm just stating as I (and probably the majorty) sees it. And so does almost all of the automotive magazines/journals. I have never seen any comparisons done by them that pits the Altima against any versions of the Accord/Camry. But it's almost a cliche for them to publish yet another Accord/Camry/Maxima death match.
I don't know that much about Toyota's wrong doings. But you might have a point that the press might be little biased in favor of the old darlings of the automotive industry, Honda/Toyota. Yes, they almost unerroringly receive good reviews. And I agree that there are cost cutting. But that's pretty true for any automaker, and the current Altima is no exception (also one of the reasons for the existing stigma).
"The camry is a great car, but it wasn't put on the lots by the hand of god and there are some exciting alternatives in the market now and around the corner."
True, but keep in mind that this is the "family car" market. And the buyers aren't traditionally too gravitated towards "exciting alternatives". For as long as I was in the car market, it was dominated by two, the Camry/Accord. Dispite the several "exciting alternatives" that have came and went (Saturn LS, Mazda 626, Mitsu Galant..), none ever made any signficant dent on those two.
And as time goes on, and their reputation builds, it would become increasingly difficult to chip away at their consolidated positions. I think Nissan has a good chance with the new Altima, but only if they take control and overwhelm the advantages that Camcords enjoys. And I think that will require more than just a more powerful engine (many competitors have more powerful engines, but all failed to capture the market). A $1000 price different, IMHO, is what I think it needs to clinch the victory.
I think it is great what Nissan is doing with the new Altima. The first one I had was very reliable, but based on size and refinement, I never really thought I would be in the market for another one. The coming year will be very interesting with all the new models available.
I will also check out the new Camry, although I don't particularly enjoy going to the local Toyota dealerships because whatever you are looking at, they seem to act like you have stumbled upon the Holy Grail of autos.
2.5l
M/T 23/29
A/T 22/28
3.5l
M/T 21/26
A/T 19/26
We will reserve the next few posts for the retractions from all of the naysayers!
Here's some other highlights that may or may not have been discussed so far, I am just listing what looks interesting.
Standard 4 wheel disc brakes, (front vented)
16" or 17" tires standard
tilt/telescoping steering wheel
Vehicle immobilizer on all models
auto up and down windows for driver & passenger sides
(also operated by remote or by key like the last generation maxima)
Lower curb weight than Camry, accord, passat
variable flow muffler
Electronic Brake force distribution (EBD)
HID lights
UV reducing glass
trip computer
Dual Stage airbags
optional roof mounted curtain side airbags
auto on/off headlights
Sorry, still no pricing info, but at least we don't have to hear about anyone complaining about the fuel economy anymore!
Wenyue,
I realize not many articles etc compare the altima to the CAMCORDS, my point is that it is more reasonable to compare a 4 cylinder CAMCORD to the altima than a 4cylinder CAMCORD to a maxima as you are suggesting, how many comparisons have you seen with the 4cylinder CAMCORDS going up against the maxima???? I'll bet none.
It's just the way the market is. How people shop their cars. I don't make it happen, it's just there.
I agree that Maxima, having only V6, is at a disadvantage when compare to the whole line of Accord/Camry in term of sales. But it's really Nissan's fault for not putting 4 cylinders in there. They originally MIGHT have THOUGHT that the Altima could compete with the Accord/Camry 4 cylinders. But yet, it didn't happen because they made it too small (my wife's compact Mazda Protege ending up being bigger than the Altima is a perfect example), and can't fulfill the role that a mid-class needs to fill.
That's just the way it turned out. People don't consider the Altima to be an alternative/competing model for Accord/Camry 4 cylinders. And that leaves only the Accord/Camry/Maxima comparision.
I understand that many shoppers don't compare the altima to the camcords, my point is that you consider the maxima to be in the same class as the 4 cylinder camcords, that is utterly ridiculous. Also the maxima out classes the camry in size more than the camry outclasses the altima, interior volume for altima is 94cft, camry is 96.9 leaving and advantage of 2.9cft for the camry, where the maxima has 102.5cft leaving an advantage for the maxima of 5.6cft! And if you think Nissan made a mistake by not putting a 4 cylinder in the maxima, you ought to see if you can find your pulse.
I guess it is all a mute point though, the new altima is a whole different ride, and the camry will be different too, so no point spending much time on the old ones,
Maxima is a competitor model for the Accord/Camry. Let's not all get technical about it. Really techically, my wife's 96 Mazda Protege, with 94+ cubic feet of interior room makes it bigger than the Altima. It also have 4 cylinder engines, but I don't see anyone arguing that it's a competitor for the Accord/Camry.
Here also, again, don't take my words that the Maxima competes with the 4 cylinder Accord. Take Edmund's word for it.
Here:
www.edmunds.com/new/2001/nissan/maxima/gxe4drsedan30l6cyl4a/compare.html?id=lin0010
Notice how both Accord LX and Camry CE 4 cylinder models are listed as the Maxima's competing model?
So if it's ridiculous to compare Accord 4 cylinder with Maxima's V6, then Edmund's automotive experts must be a bunch of lunatics. And since we are chatting on Edmund's site, what would that make us?
See, it really isn't what you think or what I think that matters. It's how the PEOPLE thinks. They don't think the Altima is a Camcord fighter, but they think the Maxima goes against both I4 and V6 Camcorders.
I have no interest in this matter, one way or the other. I'm just trying to tell things as I see them in the car market.
It is more reasonable to compare a 155hp 4 cylinder car with 94cft of space to a 150hp 4 cylinder car with 96.9cft of space than to compare a 96.9cft 150hp 4 cylinder to a 102.5cft 222hp V6 car. That's it, all I am saying, if you don't agree with that, no problem, you are entitled to your opinion
The V6 is optional for the Accord LX, but Camry CE is entirely 4 cylinder, V6 isn't an option.
It's not a classification list. Edmund's calls the ones they pick out and put up as competing models "recommended Alternatives". I don't see them recommending other compacts such as the Hyundais, Chevys, Mazdas and Fords as alternatives even though, by your standards, they are camcord competitors.
" I am not really interested in what the PEOPLE think, remember, the PEOPLE for the longest time made the Taurus the best selling car in america. And by your logic, if the PEOPLE compare an SUV with a car, then the SUV and car are comparable."
Now, come on. I'm not talking about a few people who would do comparisons between car and SUV's. I'm talking about the market censensus. The market concensus is that the Altima is NOT a competitor for the camcord, only the Maxima is.
You might not care about what most people think, but I'm sure Nissan's marketing department does. After all, they are here trying to make the Altima a sales hit by following the what most people think/wants.
P.S: Ford Taurus was only the best seller because Ford sold 56% of them to car rental companies. The actual number of PEOPLE who bought the Ford Taurus was much less than the number commanded by camcords. And from 1996 onwards, even Ford's 56% sales to rental companies couldn't prevent the Camry from being #1.