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Comments
For example:
Side airbags/ ABS: ABS should be standard and the side impact airbags should be a stand alone option.
Bose Audio System: Should be included with the Leather pkg., not an option that you have to pay for to get the leather. If you want it without the leather, it shouldn't have cost more than 500 tops, it's just a 180 watt 6Disc CD player without a Cassette.
I really think it should be standard equipment, it doesn't make any since to me.
Rear spoiler: Shouldn't cost more than $200, what does it really do outside of helping the appearance of the car(to some people, but not me)
Sunroof: $849 Way to high, it should cost no more than $500 tops.
I also believe that the 3.5SE and the 2.5SLs pricing should have been the same or a little closer to each other(base prices) Why? Because the 3.5SE really doesn't have much over the 2.5SL except the V6, and the chrome tailpipes, while the 2.5SL has the leather, Bose and other features standard.
I don't see why the Altima pricing is so high, I mean it's made in America, and not in Japan, like the Maxima, so that should have helped some, and having pricing right in line with the new Camry SE is not a good thing, even if it has more features than the Camry SEV6, people will pay that no attention. I really like this car, I am serious, but at these prices people like my mother or grandmother will look straight at the Accord, my mother want buy anything but Honda, she sticks by them, she doesn't like the new Altima, she thinks the interior looks cheap, and the quality is not as good as the Altima. I have tested one yet, but when I get my chance, I will test the Altima and Accord back to back, and see which one I like best. If invoice for the new Altima is more than 26K for a loaded 3.5SE MAN with every option available, I'll either have to buy a loaded 2.5SL MAN(which I here will be hard to fine) or a 2002 Maxima 3.5SE MAN, I am not buying that much for an Altima, I know it's a good car, but from what I have seen and heard, the quality of material is not worth more than 24K tops. I really was hopping I would like this car more, 3.5SE especially, but looks like ole Max just can't afford it.
I went back to Nissan tonight (3rd time) and took a closer look at this car. I like the look's of this car and was impressed with the fit and finish of the exterior.
Now the interior, well I think everyone here agree's that it Nissan missed "BIG TIME". It's not hideous, but what I have come to expect in raw materials was not there. I guess driving my 2k Maxima has spoiled me and set expectations in my head of what I though Nissan was going to deliver.
I am still in shock with that material they call "leather". The wood trim is a joke and a insult to any Nissan enthusiast or future car buyer that is serious about this car.
Worst of all is the price. Forget about treating myself to the extra's, "IF" I buy this car it will have to be close to invoice and definitely a SE with cloth (better than leather).
: )
Mackabee
p.s. by the way We hardly if ever, had customers cross shop Altimas vs CAMRYS, OR Maximas vs Camrys. It has always been for the most part, Maximas vs Avalons, and Altimas vs Corollas.
It was kind of interesting to bring a non-car buff and get an honest unbiased opinion.
I was just surprised to see the MSRP of the 4 cyl. Altima S with the convenience package with NO SUNROOF to be about $21,500. Same as the Camry LE. Not a bad deal but you would have guessed the Altima to be cheaper since the Camry's interior looks like a luxury car compared to the Altima.
This just made me realize why Nissan is regarded as second tier to Honda and Toyota. They always manage to screw something up. With the Max it was the rear and with the Altima it's the interior.
As much as I hate Hondas the Accord EX-V6 looks like the best deal at ~$23,000 (buying price).
One last thing, the Altima's cloth is also very cheap looking unlike the Maxima SE's cloth. What gives?
I tried to post a lengthy road test experience I had last night, but my post didn't take after 3 attempts. You can find it in the forums at www.altimas.net.
I guess I'm back to shopping for a used Acura. I'd get a new TL, but I feel cramped in them.
Accord LX has rear drum brakes and smaller tires. I thought that EX would be more appropriate. My fault, EX has an alloy wheels. The Altimas advantage is the size here.
It still looks to me that Altima 2.5S should compete nicely. We'll see.
I Love Acura [& Honda't sometimes too] value pricing and model line-up, the base models are very well equipped with maybe an engine upgrade and Navi system.
Just 15 months ago [just 3-months into the new model] I paid just a little over 27k [w/ some free add-ons] for a Acura CL-Prem. Guys that 225hp, 5sp SS, sunroof, leather, HID lights, 6cd-indash, 4/50 warranty, free loaner car on service appt [top notch service dept. I might add]. And I could go out and buy another one at a better price today. And everyone perceives a TL/CL to be around the 30k range give or take 1-2 thousands.
My eyes would glaze over & brain freezes up, with ALL of the combination available on Nissans & Toyota option menu. Again Camry is the same, except they start higher and go even higher, like 32k.
This strategy of over-pricing a vehicle, and then giving the customer "big feel-good discounts", just puts such a sour taste in my mouth. No Thank You.
Build it and price it right, and they will come and BUY, otherwise the informed consumer is going to go elsewhere.
As far as the inside is concerned, I didn't sit down in it and look around so I can't comment on the switches, dash, ergonomics and the like. To be honest, I couldn't get past the leather. Far below expectations in terms of quality. Comes off as borderline vinyl looking. No way I would consider one with leather.
Someone asked about the prices being "real" without dealer markup. Trust me, they are real. This one was a 3.5 SE Auto stickered at $28 thousand and change. I want to say $28.5K or so and included $800 bucks for some thermo protection or something (markup). Either way, if you look go by the above post (1143), which is accurate by the way (check nissannews.com), a 3.5SE 5 speed with leather, sunroof, ABS, Bose, and spoiler will set you back a little over $29K MSRP. I myself don't care about MSRP, because I believe you should be able to get one in a couple of months or so at or very near invoice. I don't know what the invoice prices are yet, but assuming the usual 10- 12% markup, let's say 11%, that's still $25.6K. V6 Accords are going for $23.5M or so. Invoice on the 02 Max 6 speed with sunroof, no leather, Bose, and side air bags is about the same as the Altima at $25.5K or so. I love the engine, handling (from what I've read in the auto magazines), and style of the Altima, but I can't see getting it over a Maxima, and can see why people would have problems getting it over the V6 Accord.
I guess from the V6 Accord standpoint, if someone wants a little more edge in the styling and a lot more power, the Altima MAY be worth the extra $2K. Take away the Altima "leather" and it's much closer, and then I guess you decide if the extra power is worth it. To be honest though, if they do want the extra power, flair, etc., why they wouldn't just get a Maxima is beyond me (unless they hate the styling of course). The interior of the Altima is inferior to that of the V6 Accord as well as the Maxima. Now there is the point of all that power through a 5 speed instead of an auto, which is not offered in the V6 Accord.
I will say though, there is an article at auto.com regarding how Nissan isn't really trying to take away sales from the Camcords, but rather going after the people looking for a little more from their car style and performance wise. If that's the case then they should be fine. The perception seems to be that the Camcords (especially the 4's) are more the mainstream, conservative, everyday people type of cars. (Please no one take offense..not meant as a bad thing.) While the Altima is now, I guess, the mid size with a flair if you will.
I really don't know what they will do with the Maxima now though. The redesign will almost have to push it into solid low $30K territory. Maybe more directly with the TL and Avalons of the world. If that's the case, then what to do with the I35?? I have read in Automobile magazine that Nissan plans to take the Lexus route and offer the G35 as the sports side (a la IS300), and the I35 as the luxury side (a la ES300). Just seems that that $30K something price range is kind of tight with all those Nissan products.
Sorry for the long post. Just trying to get in my .02.
No Haggle Price $25,468*
Destination Charges, Dealer Prep $0
MSRP $25,964
Factory Invoice $23,847
Savings from MSRP: $496
*Price does not include tax, title, tags or $99 processing fee. Price honored through 8/31/01. Vehicle subject to prior sale. Price shown is for vehicle purchase and may be different for vehicle lease.
Stock Number: 1148316
Exterior Color: Seascape
Interior Color: Frost Cloth
Warranty:
Extended Warranty:
go to the site and see that this includes most of the extras..good tool to have in hand when shopping at a local dealer....Jeff
http://carmax.com/
For the 2.5S model: $17,999
-5-speed
-Convenience Package
-Fog Lights
-Carpeted Floormats
Total: $20,556.00
For the 2.5SL model: $21,899
-5-speed
-Fog Lights
-Carpeted Floormats
Total: $22,777.00
For the 3.5SE model: $22,349
-5-speed
-Bose Audio (required for HID)
-Power Glass Sunroof (required for Bose)
-Xenon HID Headlights
-Carpeted Floormats
Total: $25,215.00
So for me and what I want in a car the Altima pricing seems very affordable. I guess for a lot of the rest of you who for some reason feel compelled to check off every option availiable no matter how useless, like splash gaurds and fake wood, then the Altima isn't really for you. Nissan knew this car wouldn't appeal to everyone. 4 months ago they even said that it would have 'everything for some, and not something for everyone'.
Sorry if they didn't design it with you in mind. *shrug*
Also, few people are going to want a 5-speed especially on the SL.
You are really skimping with no ABS on any the models.
A 2.5S automatic with convenience package, abs and no other options is a decent, but not bargain deal. The rest of the models are overpriced or else you have to skimp on features that are available for the same price or less on competing cars.
Leather Package $1,399
Power Sliding Glass Sunroof $849
Bose Audio System $899
Destination and Handling $540
Total of 26036. If one can get it at Invoice, probably around 24,000, I still feel that's too expensive for an Altima with a real cheap interior and no ABS/Airbags. Even my pathetic 2001 Jetta Wolfsburg $19,500 (21,XXX MSRP) has ABS and 6 airbags. So I'm looking at 4k more for a poor interior and no ABS/SRS...but it does have a 240 HP V6. Hardly seems worth it.
On 2.5S ABS requires Bose and sunroof, not just convenience package.
On 2.5SL ABS requires either cold package or sunroof.
On 3.5SE, leather is not available with 5sp.
Hmmm... that is ridiculous.
As far as pricing, my wife needs an automatic, and I want ABS (should be standard in all cars by now IMHO). Oh, and Floor mats are nice (what a ripoff, they should be standard). So now I'm at 24,800 plus destination, and I still don't have leather. If I want Xenon headlights (a $500 option!) I have to get sunroof 850, spoiler 400, and Bose 900. I don't care about any of that. So I spend 25K on a Altima without leather, or I get a Acura TL-s for 29K that comes with everything. What kind of decision is that? I call it a no-brainer. Goodbye Nissan, hello Acura.
I don't expect it to appeal everyone, and no one is saying that it should. I like the design just as much as the rest of the people here do, but the interior leaves much to be desired. I think that is one of the main points people are trying to make.
The general expectation seemed to be more along the lines of an 3.5SE topping out at no more than $25 - 26K loaded, which would mean a $23 - 24K invoice. Makes the choice a little easier versus the competition.
By the way, look at Carmax.com for a 2002 Maxima SE. Same general price. I've also seen people quoting prices paid for TL's at $27.5 - $28.5K (not the S mind you). A couple of grand more for a TL versus an Altima. 15 horsepower different but much better leather and overall interior. Then again, the $25.5K for the Altima does not include leather. Add that, and you're right at the TL range.
I'm like a lot of other people. Ground rule double. Could have been a homer, but due to a couple of points, it missed the mark.
I really like the Altima and it will probably be my next car. I think the price is very good when compared to the Camry and the Acura TL. I can get a sportier looking vehicle with more HP and interior room over the Camry or TL. I'll be over 31K for a TL type-S to get the HP I want.
I have already scratched Camry off my shopping list. An article in the LA Times said it best. The Camry is no longer Vanilla. It is now French Vanilla. Thus,a car not for me. I want some style. I saw one the other day and confused it for an Avalon. Also, in the same article Toyota officials stated that the Altima is no concern to them. They stated that the Altima and Audi A4 (Target for Camry) is built and targeted to drivers and enthusiasts. The Camry is just transportation.
Well enough rambling I am still excited about the Altima and can't wait to see about getting one this weekend. I will try to find a link to the LA Times article on Camry. I found it rather insightful how Toyota discounted the Altima as a competitor and aren't very flattering when talking about their own vehicle.
Don't get me wrong. Nice car, but as you mentioned in your post, Vanilla or French Vanilla. It was never even close to being on my list. I just want a little more pizzaz. Like you said, they all will be in the same general range, but will appeal to different people for different reasons.
By the way, if you check the Acura boards, you can get a TL-S for probably right at $30K, and a TL for right at $28K still. I'm like you though, if I got a TL it would have to be the S type.
The Acura for me? Nah. I actually was considering either a V6 Altima with a 5 speed or a 6 speed Maxima. The Maxima by far was and still is my first choice. I love the looks of the Altima too, but it doesn't do it for me like the Max, and, like I said before, I don't like the inside. The TL is a nice car too, but I think the styling may be a little too conservative for my tastes. Besides, no manual.
Basically, what I've been wanting is a nice roomy, sporty mid-size sedan for the most bang for my buck. The manual transmission is a requirement though. There are not a lot of choices once you put that part in there.
The interior is not as good as a max but it certainly far behind it in terms of quality. The car I tested had leather that not only felt good but looked real nice. It was perforated. The dash materials are okay. Not bad. just not class setting. I could certainly live with it. Around the guages the material gets hard but otherwise they are just fine with me. Guages are so sweet. So clear and precise.
Overall: I love this car now. looks great. Big and comfortable inside (front and back). Powerful. Id definitly buy this car.
I give it a 4 or a 4.5 out of 5.
The only one Benson had was a 2.5S, it had the convenience pkg., body painted mudguards, floormats, mirco filter. The color was Mystic Emerald, a very nice color, better than Seascape actually.
First: Exterior:
Saw the car while my brother and I were traveling toward interstate 85 in Spartanburg, turned around as quickly as I could. Got to the dealership and noticed 3 new Maximas at the back, 1 Sterling Mist, 2 Majestic Blues, didn't really even care for those two. I wanted the Altima. Got to the front and there it was the "Cure for the common sedan" I couldn't believe it, it was so good-looking, it looked a lot wider than the Passat, and looked longer than the Maxima. Then went inside the dealership and talked with this cool guy named Dick Yoder, he asked if I wanted to look inside of it, and I replied with a loud "YES." It was raining pretty hard outside, so I waited a little while. After the rain slacked off, I went back outside again and looked inside of the car.
Interior:
With all this complaining about cheap materials this and cheap materials that, from my previous post from last night, I take some of what I said back. The interior looked very nice. The interior was Blond, and the material looked pretty nice to me, I felt the dash and it didn't feel any cheaper than the '02 Accord SE my mom had about 2 weeks ago. I was so impressed with the cloth interior, but it did look better than the cloth in the Maxima GXE, which is a good thing. Also, he let me play around with the stereo buttons, and the gauges, they look really good, I wish they were blue, but they look pretty good to me. The headroom was pretty good, I am only about 5' 11" though. I must say that I will definately buy this car over the new Camry. Yes, to some the Camry may have better interior material, but the Altima, even in 2.5S w/ Convenience pkg. is sportier than the Camry SE. THat car is the bomb. Also, who would have ever thought they'd put better looking rims on the 2.5S and 2.5SL model than the 3.5SE, those rims look really, really and I mean really good. All I did was go one and one about the car the whole time I was there. My little brother told the salesmen that I knew more about the car than he did, and he just started laughing. I told him all about the car, and he just looked at me in amazement. If Nissan would hire me, I'd sell every last one of them. GOTTA LOVE THE NEW ALTIMA. Also, before I forget, the taillights really look good on the Mystic Emerald color. I don't know about other darker colors, but Mystic Emerald sure looks a lot like Fresco Green available for the new Passat. NISSAN HAS DONE IT AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Maxamillion
P.S. Can you people tell that I really LOVE THIS CAR, and hasn't my opinion changed dramatically since last night, I sure think so.
Manual Tranny:
2.5: 23/29
2.5 S: 23/29
2.5 SL: 23/29
3.5 SE: 19/26 (19 in the city??)
Auto Tranny:
2.5: 22/28
2.5 S: 22/28
2.5 SL: 22/28
3.5 SE: 21/26
They seem like okay numbers. The 02' Altima does look like the Q45 a bit. Interesting...
http://www.quirkcars.com/nissan/02altima_spec/2002_altima_specs.htm
Remember the Camry has a less powerful engine.
"Pretty dismal but in the same company as the VW Golf, Jetta and Passat."
For what engine, the 1.8T? That's the only engine all three cars share. And that requires premium fuel. And as someone who owns a 1.8T, seeing anywhere near 30 MPG is only possible if I keep away from the turbo boost - hard to do considering the poor gearing VW provides for the cars.
Honestly though, 4 mpg is a small trade off if you're a lover of power.
The styling and performance and price made this a no brainer. I was once a nonbeliever, but had a outer body experience that refocus my purpose in life-drive fast!
Here's the break down on options:
SE 5-SPEED
Moon roof
Spoiler
Splash guards
Micro filter
Mats
Wind defector
HID
Invoice $22,504
Markup $600.00
Tax 7% $1,610.00
Total: $24,714.28
Deliver date not set.
Now some of you may be thinking "who cares." Well, when someone walking through a tight parking spot or a bicyclist or other car breaks it off and it costs you $200 or more, then you will care. You will also care when you are trying to walk past your car in the garage and bang your side into it.
I hate fixed mirrors and will not buy a new car when the time comes unless they fold. PS: I park in the city a lot!
i, like the rest of you i'm sure, have been anticipating this car since its announcement. i have also been very disappointed by what most people have been saying on this board about the cheap feel and was expecting the worst from the interior.
the one they had was a 3.5 with wood, leather and black interior (or, if you prefer, charcoal)
i was, overall, impressed and got a good feel from it. i will say they could do without the wood. definately CHEAP and out of place. also, it's true....the leather. even the salesperson brought up the word vinyl, but tried telling me it was "a new style" or something like that. i tried not to laugh. aside from those two issues, almost everything else was great! i think a big part of it was the color. the black interior looks very classy. the power drivers seat was nice..went very far back ( i have long legs) and the instrumentation looked excelent. also, the back seat had lots of room.
my only other major complaint is with the radio. even the salesguy said that if something else was installed it would look out of place. as i posted a while ago, what happens when the thing breake, or you want to upgrade, etc. its such an oddly shaped piece, anything else in that space would look like crap.
anyway, i was psyched to see the car in person. the exterior is awesome to say the least, and the interior will be great with cloth seats and no wood....now what about that radio?
: )
Mackabee
p.s. landcruiser also.
Or was it, FROST.
Anyways, a lot if this b*tching about the "cheap interior" is unwarranted. The interior is fine. Perhaps people are confusing cheap and "sparse".
Nissan had said they wanted a dash feel similar to that of a sports motorcycle. Well as you know the dash is a simple design without a lot of crap and has prominent gauges. The design itself is very nice and sporty feeling.
The dash plastic is pretty nice. A couple switches look kinda parts bin and the radio is not elaborate. The climate controls are fine and equal or superior to many cars it competes with. The door plastic could be a bit nicer but I found it to be fine for the price class. The seat and door cloth is fine.
Now the console was cheap looking. The design is ok. But show me a car with an elaborate console.
Which is my point. The interior quality is 90 percent that of a Camry 2002 or a Passat. It is better I think than a 2001 Camry. Its probably the equal to the Accord. The design is more stark which may lead some to think its cheap. Thing is, do you like the sporty simple look or not?
And hey keep in mind.....the quality and design exceeds Chrysler interiors and way far exceeds (ok, BLOWS AWAY) the interiors in almost all GM cars. The Altima interior is luxurious compared to the abominable stuff you find in most Pontiacs or Malibus or Intrepids. Any Grand Am or Grand Prix or Malibu looks definitely hobby shop compared to the interior of the Altima.
Many people complain about the QUALITY of the raw materials used in this car for example: Leather is cheap and has a poor fit around the head restraints looks and feels like vinyl. The so called "wood" trim is cheesy to say the least. I don't expect real wood, but some type of GM style wood trim will suffice. The center arm rest feels like rubber and grabs my arm. I may add my own leather after market and do something about that arm rest as well. If you notice the Automatic gated shifter is not leather like the steering wheel unusual for a SE from any car company.
Hey, I have a standing order with my dealer to find me a car with the options that I want and have money down. So I like the car enough to over look a few things. Certainly the Camry has many over priced components and styling issues that kept me away too.
Folks that say "cheap interior" need to clarify what it is that they do not like about it. Besides most people will see my car from the out side and as I pull away from them. I prefer the phrase "it's better to look good than to feel good"
You and I view things very differently. I passed on the WRX mainly because the interior felt so bargain basement (wasn't too happy about the flimsy doors either). I spend 99% of the time with my car INSIDE it, so for me I'd much rather feel great about what I'm touching/seeing 2 hours a day during my commute.
I think I've pretty clearly stated what feels "cheap" about the Altima's interior. The main dash is made from a shiny, extremely hard plastic. The center hub looks and feels tacked on as an afterthought. The little door below the HVAC controls feels floppy and will probably break. That same door on the altima I sat in opened crooked and when closed the plastic flexed considerably. The center console's plastic matched dash's shiny hardness, feeling cold and impersonal. The roofliner was likewise cold and hard to the touch. That pretty much sums up the interior...seats were okay by the way. Oh, and the three pods seem all wrong. One easy to read layout is preferably to some bad pod. Weird that a company which produced the ethereal 300ZX cockpit would make a 1980's feeling one for the Altima.
The exterior styling probably goes to the Altima -very slick looking. I personally like the Maxima's styling (I know many don't like it) but the Altima's styling is more current.
The interiors are miles apart. The cloth trim on the top of the Altima's doors looks like it will wear poorly. The leather option may solve this dilema as the top of the doors would be leather appointed rather than cloth. The grade of the black leather seats looked cheap (little bumps all over them), but the blond leather looked ok. The fit and finish of the plastic was cheap looking - the bottom half of the door has that truck-like look. The orange dash lights look out of place. The seats are too soft. Very comfortable, but as someone earlier noted, "it was like sitting on a 70's sofa". My wife loved them, but agreed that the Maxima's seats would probably be more durable. Great seats for couch potatoes!
I am going with the Maxima over the Altima in a decision that ultimately was decided by the interior quality. In addition, the dealer suggested he would be negotiating from MSRP on the Altima, but from invoice on the Maxima.
When comparing a 4 cyl. Altima to an Accord or Camry, I believe the Altima will do very well, particularly against the Accord. Go Nissan.
I'm dissapointed in the interiors of both the new Camry and Altima. In my view they don't come close to leapfrogging the Accord in this respect. Please Honda, don't go down the same path with the 2003 Accord. The perfect car from Nissan would be the outside of the Altima and the inside of the Maxima.
mackabee: the Accord's folding mirrors aren't noisy. It's louder than a Camry due to road noise. Toyota with the Camry and Nissan with the Altima are just being cheap. Folding mirrors are more difficult to design than fixed mirrors for noise reduction, but it can be done.