Nissan Altima

s852

I sat in a 2002 Altima S with black cloth interior today.
The interior looked kind of cheap. It was not really bad, but is worse than either the Accord or Camry.
If the price was lower, the plasticky interior would be justifiable, but it is in the same general price range as the Camry or a Passat.
You can't have a Passat interior for the price of a Hyundai, but I don't want to pay the price of a Passat for sub-Hyundai levels of interior quality either.
I did not bother test driving the car because they are trying to get ADP on top of the already high MSRP and I was not ready to even think about paying MSRP, much less the markup above MSRP when there are better buys available from Honda with a 200HP V6 instead of a 175 hp 4 cylinder.

qin2

I went to check out the Toyota and Volkswagen websites to get the base prices on the Camry and Passat.

Passat GLS: $21,750
Camry LE: $19,455

Now with the Altima starting at $16,349 I don't personaly think its fair to be expecting interior materials to be on par with those seen in the more expensive Camry/Passat. Fully optioned out the Camry/Passat are priced at $33,795/$32,125 respectivly, again the Altima being much lower priced at $29,717 for a fully loaded 240hp SE.

*Shrug*

Personaly I think the Altima fits its price well. I certainly am not a big fan of the interior design or the rediculous fake wood, but even though I don't like the design I'm hardly going to say I'm disapointed in the materials used. Seeing as it starts out at $16,000 I feel the materials are on par with whats to be expected in that price range.

s852

The dealer wanted $25K for the 2.5S automatic.

$16K gets you a super-stripped base 2.5 without even A/C or radio. They are not planning to build very many of these and few would want them anyway.
It was ridiculous to compare the base model Altima to a Passat GLS that has standard ABS, side curtain airbags, A/C, stereo, cruise control and other things that are optional or not even available on the base Altima.

Even though a 2.5S with options to match a Passat GLS has a lower MSRP, it is really in the same range or more expensive considering that the Passats are discounted and the Nissan dealer wanted a few thousand over MSRP on the Altima.
The Camry LE is in the same range as the MSRP as the Altima 2.5S with options and they haven't even really started any significant discounts on the Toyotas yet.

nautiker

Have any of you actually purchased this vehicle yet?? 6Head mentioned that they'll be discounting from MSRP for this vehicle. No dealer mark-up and no MSRP for such a new model?? Doesn't seem to make sense. Of those who bought it, any thoughts on Honda entering the ring next September w/ the redesigned Accord??? In a perfect world, a vehicle would please all of the people all of the time. I think that Nissan has done much more right than wrong on this design. Only minor complaint I had when I sat in a Blond cloth int. was the density of the seat foam/cushioning. Seems awfully soft as mentioned in an earlier post. Is this normal to Nissan or am I just spoiled by my Volkswagen and Honda seats being so firm??

The car has eyes and the 4-banger equals the output of my VR6. Will be interesting to see how the Altima's weight, gearing, and grip handle the HP compared to my GTI. Earlier posts indicate not too much low end torque. Thought the vvTi would have taken care of this. . .

Lastly, have any of you seen pics of the Emerald Mist Altima anywhere--possible color we are considering and no brochures out yet. Also--pics of the 16" aluminum wheels--already seen the 17's. And what brand of rubber are they putting on the 2.5s w/16"'ers. . .Hopefully Dunlop. . .

qin2

You're missing my point here. Doesn't the most expensive 3.5 SE model still have to use the same interior found on the strippd 2.5 model? Of course it does. So all Altimas are forced to use the same interior as its $16,000 base model. The Camry and Passat's base models on the other hand are thousands more then then base Altima, and therefore better interior materials are possible for them.

Because of this I wonder why Nissan choose to even offer the base 2.5 model, since to make it profitable they had to 'cheapen' the interior materials they used for all Altimas. They say that 80% of their planned Altima sales will be for the 2.5S, and then 10% for both the SE and SL trims... but that leaves no expectations for the base 2.5 model, which makes me wonder, why would they sacrifice something as important as the interior for a trim they barely plan on selling?

nitromax

I took a 2.5S auto for a spin the other day, and I will gladly say that it does not feel or perform like a 4 cyl. As for torque, I chirped the tires by accident pulling out from a stoplight. Scared me to think what I could have done if I tried.....or worse yet, what the 3.5SE will be like.

rickrover

I don't think you can compare the base Altima/ Passat because the equipment levels are so different. GLS Passat has full power, trip computer, cruise control, keyless entry, Air, ASD, EDL (electronic differential locks), electric fuel door release/ trunk release, interior lighting package, hood shock, side and head airbags, etc. You really need to compare an Altima that's equipped to the level of a base Passat to be fair in comparing these two cars - Most people will buy Altimas that are equipped like a base Passat anyway. What purpose could a base Altima have except for dealers to use the base Altima as the advertised "special" for bait and switch purposes. Even the top of the line Altima /Passat models are not comparable - Passat has memory seats, All wheel drive, exremely upscale leather interior, auto dimming mirrors, etc. I doubt anyone in the market for a 4Motion GLX Passat will be comparing it to a top of the line Altima and vice versa.

It's too bad Nissan decided to use somewhat cheap interior materials - how much extra could it cost VW to put better cloth, carpet, trunk lining, etc in every Passat - $200 maybe???

As for Hyundai - I rented an XG300 from Avis on a business trip about a month ago - that car was an eye opener - It's interior is GORGEOUS - easily up to the level of a GLX Passat or any number of other upscale cars. If you are near a Hyundai dealer stop in and take a look, you'll be stunned, they drive really well too, V6, 5 speed automatic, totally changed my view of Hyundai. You owe it to yourself to take a look at an XG300 just for comparison purposes, if nothing else. I've seen them advertised new for $20k locally - if that's true it is a screaming bargain if you can get past the Hyundai stigma.

I drive a 2000 GLS Passat - I'll be in the market for a new car in a year or so. 35k trouble free miles on my Passat, really happy with it. Considering all the choices that will be available in 2003 - I have no idea what my next car will be.

oxmead

The 2.5S I saw had Continental tires

newcar31

I took a look at a new Altima the other day. It was a loaded, black 3.5 SE. It looks pretty sharp. IMO, the orange dash illumination doesn't look that great. There are so many new sedans coming out soon that I don't know if I would buy one just yet. I have seen drawings of the new Mazda 626 replacement and I think it looks a little better than the new Altima: http://www.mag-x.com/scoop/nms0108/01.jpg I am curious as to what the new Accord will look like also. The new Camry is a disapointment IMO.

acurahad

I priced out a 3.5 loaded/traction control/leather/basically everything that you can get, an the MSRP is hitting 30,000 that's alot for any Altima. I like the exterior design of the car. But for that type of money, I will have to look at the Infinti's.

speedracer3

Pros: Styling, handling/ride, power, comfort/size.

Cons: Interior quality and layout, price.

Before taking a "green" Altima for a ride I had plenty of time to inspect a showroom model. I cannot say enough about the styling of this car. I like it a lot, it is really a looker, I think styling alone will get people into the showrooms. The other thing I noticed is how big the car is inside. The cloth seats are comforatble and there is plenty of head and leg room both in the front and back. The trunk is huge. Now as to my take on the infamous interior. As others have pointed out it really does not fit this car. The plastics are obviously cheap and very thin. I did not like the 3 pod instrusment panel, I found it hard to see anything when it was sunny out. I thought that the plastics used on my 2000 Maxima are of better quality, and I like the "wave" design of the Maxima much better. I think that although the Altima's interior is probably slightly better than a typical American car, the CamCords have nicer interiors. But interior materials alone do not a car make. Turning on the engine and taking it for a ride you can tell that this baby has power. Yes, I drove a 4 banger, but I could have sworn I was driving a V6. The pickup is very good for a 4 cyl car. The engine is noisy, but not annoyingly so, it has a nice sporty growl to it when you push the car. I still think that the Maxima's engine is more refined and smoother, but for that I would have to take an SE for a ride. I thought the handling and ride were execellent. Steering is very precise and the ride is taught and sporty enough that you can truly have fun driving this car. I found body roll was minimal even taking some sharp turns. As for the new suspension, I took the car over some bumpy uneaven pavement and the multi-link soaked up the bumps very well.

Conclusion: The new Altima will certainly appeal to those that want something other than a CamCord. The car has a lot going for it, and it is a definite improvement over the previous model, it has a good engine, lots of space, it is comfortable, and fun to drive. It not as cheap as we all thought, but cheap enough (especially the 4 bangers) to appeal to younger more sport oriented buyers. I would say 8 out of 10.

jjx456

Checked out the new Altima today. Liked the exterior, thought the interior was average. The salesman (who said he had been at the dealership for many years) claimed that Nissan was coming out with another car "this year" that would be slotted between Altima and Sentra. Has anyone else heard this?

ludacris

jix456- Sentra SE-R? That's the only one I can think of. If it's not that, then he's BSing.

bluesky999

Speedracer, you synopsis was well stated and basically states what I've been thinking. I'll just add that I stopped by to see the Camry the other day (the altis aren't in my neck of the woods yet) and was amazed at just how boring looking it is. Looks the same as the Avalon to me--even the tailights are the same. Thought it would be sleeker, like the Taurus, based on photos, but it's not. How dismal. For those of you who like it, that's good if you've found something you like--go buy it.

Choices for people not interested in the Camcords come down to Altima, Passat, Maxima, certified used Acura TL (3 year old models should be coming off of lease shortly, and they add 1 year to 4 year warranty when buying certified), and, if you wait until spring, the racy upcoming new mazda 626 (thanks for posting the picture, whoever did that). '02 Camry and Accord just don't light my fire.

Happy hunting.

maxamillion1

I hope it looks that good when it hits production. I doubt it though.

orangelebaron

I made an earlier comment about the Altima's huge mirrors not folding. Of course someone stated that very few manufacturers do this any more because of wind noise. I guess that's why VOLVO, MB, BMW, RR, BENTLEY, LINCOLN (some), CHRYSLER (some), HYUNDAI, MAZDA (some), BUICK, CADILLAC, VW, HONDA (some)...did I miss any?... put folding mirrors on their cars... because they want us to hear something? When I drive my friends Volvo S70, there is no wind noise from the mirrors. And not all cars made with this feature get put on a ship.

har1bush

That looks more like a Mazda Protege on steroids... nothing we haven't seen before from Mazda. The biggest question mark with the 626 will be the quality compared to the other Japanese competitors especially since Ford has a lot to do with Mazda's designs these days.

hambone32

Looks good? In that cartoon?????? Yeah, I saw a real tough looking, hot rod 2002 Camry cartoon a couple of months ago. THEN the REAL one came out. Dude, please don't fall for those funky "concept cartoons". I've been around way too long to go for that.

newcar31

"I've been around way too long to go for that" Really? The 626 in that picture will be VERY close to what the production model will look like. That website had EXACT drawings of the RSX (Integra replacement) and EXACT drawings of the new Civic Si well before any magazine published them. Yeah, I will agree with you, the Camry pictures were a little off (bigger wheels always make cars look better), but for the most part, they showed you what it would look like. What more do you honestly expect from Toyota? Mazda on the other hand, has been building some pretty funky PRODUCTION cars recently. Ever seen the Protoge5? How about the upcoming RX8? Would you expect such cars from Toyota? I didn't think so. They also have pictures of the new Corolla if any of you care. You think I was born yesterday? Do you think I don't realize it is a drawing? I forgot, you've been around "way too long to go for that".

qualityguy

Friend of mine got a 2001 Maxima SE today with every conceivable option; she paid 23 big ones and that's with the tax, wich makes 23 final price. She paid cash, though. Whatever improvement is there on the Altima, 2001 Maximas are still better deal and quality all around. They are still japanese made; this generation of car is only 2 year in production. They still are using the same suppliers for this car. Altima is assembled in Smyrna, Tenessy, they just started to assemble this car. Also, working in steel industry I noticed last year outcry from Nissan suppliers who were told to cut the costs of the part. And I read interview of Mr. Ghosh, who said "that earlier were used to "goldplate" our specs to suppliers" meaning that he will not do it anymore - I think that you can find it in "Automotive news" or Autonews.com. I'd say - keep your hands off the car 'till they drastically lower the prices and the cars proves itself to be Nissan they used to be. It's already making not good impression: pricing is to high and option combo is tricky and is a mousetrap, paint seems thin, same is body metal, inside is cheap, 3.5 has torque steer, door handles don't feel solid (the car I saw - the only one on dealership - had a broken(!) door handle), etc. Grille should be not black, but chrome - it would give the car more expensive look - though that's my personal opinion (though VW Passat has it - and sells well). It's pain in the [non-permissible content removed] to get a test drive, etc. So, get a Maxima, or a Acura TL or CL - for $21G's or $27/28G's you get proven cars with the quality feel all around. Good luck.

mackabee

well dudes another reason why folding mirrors are not used on the CAMRY is because of a thing called drag coefficient. Look it up! The Camrys is .28 lower than last years models and lower than the generation before that. Kaizen!

: )

Mackabee

regfootball

about the interior is unwarranted.

It is fine for a car in its price range and with a sporty design theme.

bluesky999

To add to my earlier post on the options of altima, upcoming 626, maxima, passat, and certified '99 TL, I might add that I also like the Oldsmobile Intrigue and Alero very much, both inside and out, but their safety ratings weren't quite as high as the Japanese. That's the only reason I didn't include them. And the 300M is a great car I believe, but it's a little larger than the others I've mentioned so I left it off the list. (I like the handling of a smaller, lighter car, so I can pretend I'm Mario Andretti )

qualityguy: where are you getting this stuff about thin paint, thin metal, cars made in Tennessee not as good, etc. If you can show me some numbers to back this up I'll go for it, otherwise I assume you're a Toyota salesman or something.

qualityguy

Toyota salesman? Right. Naturally , beauty in in the eye of beholder - and if you like the car so much, bluesky999, this is obviously what you should get. I can tell that only from what I saw and what I felt, when I inspected and drove the car. But, when you look at Mazda Millenia, you see, that the paint is thick and rich (and later I found out, that they use a very difficult technology fro that.) Same with other cars. I'd say, just pay attention to details. Also, re. Smyrna: previous Altima is quite a good car, and may be, qualitywise, comparable to Maxima "built in Japan" - everything needed here, is to look at "consumers Report" statistics. And may be I am to carefull her - but I have bought my share of cars I choose for looks - not any more. If you feel like taking risk - it's your money. I gues, with my 30 grant, I can really shop around, and make the right choice - and trust me here, I'll be glad, if it could be the new Altima - I still like it's appearance and the way it drives.

har1bush

Mackabee, you mean to tell me the Camry's drag coefficient is 0.28 solely because of its not having folding mirrors?! That's ridiculous... If you knew anything about fluid mechanics, you'd know that the drag coefficient is going to be mostly affected by the car's shape and how the body deflects wind... not some cost cutting non-folding mirrors!

habitat1

...I personally think you've made some good points. However, may I respectfully suggest that they would be better made if you articulated them more clearly and cleaned up the typos and grammatical mistakes before posting. I'm not tryng to be critical, but it's difficult to reconcile your suggestion of "pay attention to the details" with the messy posts.

As for the $23k 2001 Maxima SE with "every conceivable option", by my calculations, that's a $29k+ list car with an invoice price of $26k+. Are you sure about that price? I am aware of $1k+ under invoice deals, but not $3,500+ under, unless it's a demo. I'm looking on behalf of a friend who is returning to the US from London and will need a new car almost as soon as he returns. Thanks.

jimxo

That deal on Maxima does not exist. Dealers want to unload inventory, but 23K loaded (new) is far fetched.

List the name of dealer and sales rep if it's true.

nitromax

Not to throw any stones, but qualityguy seems to be writing/speaking with broken English. I think perhaps they may not be from this country.
'nuf said?

clpurnell

First let me say I love the way the alty looks and think it is a good car. However it is woefully over priced. I was a little sad about this car because I had to buy a car before this one was released. However I am glad I did. I got a 2001 300M w/luxury and smoker's package for 26k. It can be had now for 25k. This car comes with leather, infinty 200+ watt 9 speaker system, abs, traction, trip computer, heated seats, mem seats, auto mirrors, faboulous interior (better than I30 or Acura TL) and a 3.5l 250 HP engine with autostick transmision. Drive one and you will buy it. Anyone to buy an alty would be out of their mind. I30's are selling in chicago for 27k. I can go buy a 2002 max for 26.5. I was looking at this for a second car for my wife but it is off the list. I absolutely hate the plainess of honda's but will probably buy an EX6 if we do wind up needing a second car or going with a sport ute. Man what a waste of a nice design I hope they stop smoking crack next year and add abs, traction and sunroof or bose as standard on the se next year.

clpurnell

My sister bought a loaded 2001 altima SE for 18k. I thought she would be better off waiting. That is lower than the base price of the new S model. I think she did very well.

swsms

I just saw the '02 Altima 2.5 S and 3.5SE this morning. The exterior looks nice and the interior(specifically the dash and door trim) looks very cheap....enough said!! Thes seats were very supportive and the back seat is huge.

What caught my attention was this dealership tacked on almost $2K in exterior and interior dressing products wrapped along with some "regional marketing adjustment (rma)"! As a result, the 3.5 SE I saw with auto, bose, xenon lights, and sunroof listed at $28.5K instead of the $26.5 without the "rma". Has anyone else seen anything like this or is this just a Texas thing?

s852

If they only have 1 or 2 2002 Altimas and are marking them up to where the price is unrealistic, I think that indicates that they don't really want to sell those cars.
They want them to remain on the lots unsold to bring traffic from curiousity-seekers until they get their main shipments of 2002 Altimas later.

regfootball

are well priced but true the more luxurious ones are a tad spendy.

COnsidering all your other options in the low to mid twenties price range....

loaded Millenia and Diamante
yes....Maxima
XG300
LHS and 300M
Passat
GTP
Taurus SE Duratec
of course Camry and Accord
Impala and Bonneville
even Saturn L

all these cars present different reasons why the upper level Altimas should come down in price. None of these cars is totally superior to the Altima as a whole (except maybe the Passat, Millenia and LHS) yet all have their strengths in a certain important area they make them better "values" right now than Altima SE.

Again, though the base models are good priced, and this again to me seems where the car competes best and it is also why the interior is fine for me because I see 80% of the Altima sales being 4 cylinder 2.5 S models.

mackabee

I never said solely because of the non-folding mirrors. Don't put words on my keyboard now.

Mackabee

jimxo

I think this is a styling issue mostly. Plus when they break Toyota can sell you replacements parts at big profits. My parents mirror (95 Avalon) has been replaced twice at $175.00 a pop-inconvient and expensive.

ronoboy

I haven't taken a test drive yet, but the S version seems reasonably priced. Even if the ABS/side air bags option is added the total MSRP is just over $20,000 including automatic, CD player, delivery charge, etc. None of the items in the "convenience package" seem essential
to me (usually keyless, a CD, etc. are included in these expensive packages).

The local dealer in Champaign IL doesn't seem to be adding anything to the sticker, but perhaps they spring that later! The main thing that gets lost for us lower end buyers is that the pre-2002 GXE's seemed to have an almost perpetual $1,400 rebate so it becomes a more
expensive car due that. Is the S with automatic worth a couple thousand more
than the GXE's? Sure is a more exciting looking car anyway!

hunter39

My wife and I tested a new Altima last weekend. They added some ridiculous "Desert Package" that marked the car up almost 1300.00, one of those paint protection deals and cloth seat protection, wanted 377.00 for window tinting (I can get it done for 150.00 aftermarket)This was a 2.5S with the Con. package which was almost 1700.00 and automatic. They told me the price was going to be MSRP, no deals. I thought they were kidding. As much as I liked the car I'm still on the fence. My sister in law bought a 2001 Altima with not a whole lot of extras for just under 17k, this 2002 would price at 21305 without all the dealer crap added. If I could pay around 19k for the car I'd go for it vs. the Passat for about 26k, hard to say though as my wife didn't care for the seats in the Passat very much and liked them in the Altima. I agree with the majority of folks here who think it's over priced. It's spiffy but not for 25-27k fully equipped.

hambone32

It's a cartoon, man. What more can you say. And yes, I've seen the new Protege5 station wagon. I've also seen the RSX, which is a really fancy Civic. What's the other one? I never get excited over cartoons. I'll say a car looks good when it is produced and sitting right in front of me, not before. I also won't pass judgement on it's performance until I drive it. Now go to a Mazda dealer and place an order on that car based on the cartoon.

albatros43

I purchased a new Nissan a couple weeks ago, and am very happy with the car but was very unpleased with the overall buying experience. Explicitly, the Finance Guy tried to tell me that to qualify for special financing you HAD to buy a $1500 extended warranty. I told him that would negate my finance savings and was dumb. As I was standing to walkout, he folded and let me get the financing without the extended warranty. I later saw on the finance application that extended warranties were NOT necessary for financing approval. So, he flat out lied. So, I wanted to get rid of the dealer logo they had put on the rear of my car. I easily removed the sticker, but now have this ugly smudge underneath it where the sticky stuff remains. Does anyone know a product that will remove that cleanly? I scrubbed it for about half an hour with a cloth soaked with warm water and soap. It looks better, but I can still see the smudge. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Just as a warning: DON'T LET ANY FINANCE PERSON TELL YOU FINANCING IS CONTINGENT ON PURCHASING AN EXTENDED WARRANTY THROUGH NISSAN! THIS IS A BLATANT LIE!

hambone32

and YES you've heard me:

I've been around WAY too long to go for those B.S. cartoons!!!!!!

Now please don't make me say it again. You'll learn, grasshopper.

tgif888

You might want to try 10W-40.

danny25

I think that was suppost to be WD-40, but if not, sorry tgif888. WD-40 works pretty good in getting off sticky stuff like the glue from a sticker, hopefully that will help.

tgif888

Yes. WD-40. Thanks.

ecarmack

Next time say, "No dealer advertising on my car unless you want to pay a monthly fee." Really though, I always tell the salesperson when the car is being cleaned/prepped, "No stickers or dealer plates."

The fraud committed on customers in the dealer finance department is disgusting. It is unbelievable they get people to fall for those scams.

cojoneka

....about your 300M. I agree that chrysler can design the hell out of a car, but believe me beauty is only skin deep. I'm about to drive my cirrus off a bridge. Get ready for brakes every 25K miles and a new tranny way earlier than you think. You can take the tranny problem to the bank. That is why I'm picking up my new Max SE this week.

waynerp

Albatros43: You might try "Goo Gone" to remove the sticker residue.

I had a similar experience with Nissan dealers in the Atlanta area when I bought my Quest last year. If not for Carmax, a new-vehicle Nissan dealer in Greenville, SC, I probably would not have bought a Nissan. There was absolutely no BS with that dealer.

ruski

my 300M has 33K miles on it. 3 years old. Brakes are still OK and running better then when it was new.

albatros43

Thanks for all the advice. I'll try the WD-40 and see if that helps. I live in the Atlanta area, so maybe we were at the same dealer who tried this crap. I just filled out my questionnaire from the dealer today and I gave them the worst ratings for most everything. The car itself was the only good thing about the experience!

newcar31

You'll learn grasshopper? I know the difference between fancy concept car cartoons and close drawings of the car. Take a look at the "cartoon" this site had of the new RSX well before mags had pics: http://www.mag-x.com/scoop/integra0011/index.html

Looks JUST like the RSX that you can buy now in the dealership huh? Or how about this "cartoon" pic of the Japanese market Lancer well before mags had pics: http://www.mag-x.com/scoop/lancerevolution0011/1.jpg Looks mysteriously JUST like the Lancer you can buy now in non-US mitsu dealerships. You'll learn grasshopper.

qualityguy

Sorry for the typos - I should have replaced my keyboard a while ago, 'cuz some keys need really heavy hand to press them. And by the end of the day I simply didn't pay enough attention - 16 hours a day, you know... OK. Back to the price. I doublechecked the price - the car didn't have leather and sunroof - sorry, my fault, misinformed you guys. But is still SE with 16 inch rims and rest of the stuff. And the car is not demo. The deal was done in Brooklyn, NY, in Bay Ridge. A whole show had to be put on - with negotiating the price, tearing the papers and blah-blah-blah. You sertainly must be able to stomac this. Amaizingly - this is not a good price... My friends (the same persons) father bought comparatively same car last year for $22G's tax included. They are quite strange people. She sold yesterday her in perfect shape V-6 98 Camry with 38,000 miles with Viper alarm she bought in 1999 for 25 or 26 (with the tax) because... ...it didn't have CD in dash... for 12,000. I, naturally told her, that when she gets her next car, she talks to me first re her old one. Also, I can say from my own experience, you can always get a deal, on a new car, or old one. People are mostly irrational, and normally don't stand a chance against properly planned offence. For example, I got my V-8 Lincoln LS with every option (here I stand by it, since it is my car-and I can say only that in-glove-compartment CD-changer was a bad mistake) for total of $14,000 (with $500 service contract included. At the time of lease Lincoln didn't have it as a part of the lease package) for 2 years with 15,000 miles a year. This way lease less tax and contract was approx. $ 12,000, wich is not bad for a two year lease on $40,000 car. I bought begining 2000 a 1997 Legacy GT with 34,000 miles, in perfect shape (checked through CarFax and by my mechanic) for under $9,000 - it is much less than trade-in value. But, again, you must be able to negotiate and be shrude. Good luck, guys - but again, be carefull with a first-year-in-production brand-new car from a company that is at the crucial point of surviving in it's history. Cost-cutting policy is strong at Nissan now, and if you have money, lease the car. With the modern technology it is highly unlikely, that the car will be major pain in the [non-permissible content removed] first three years (though I can tell you story or two about LS and much more than that about Intrepid and Pontiac I used to have). I am a very cautious person, my job is quality assurance, and I am suspicious by nature, I guess. From what I saw, I didn't like many things in this car - paint, metal, insides. I liked ride and performance (if you new what did I have to do to get a drive! Those who were at dealerships, will understand.). But I am not ready to spend my hard-earned dollars in times that seem to look like entry into economic's slow-down for a car that gives me doubts. Everybody, naturally, must decide for himself.