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Comments
Can you get stability control on the Altima S?
-juice
If you like having that option, all 2003 VW Jettas and Passats will have the option of ESP for a mere $280, I am told by my dealer.
The Millenia is also a steal. I got a 2001 Millenia P for my wife and paid $22K. Wife loves the car, it's got everything you would want in a luxury car.
I'm almost certain the vehicle tested did not have the optional side airbags installed. NHTSA always notes "w/SAB" for the name of the vehicle when it tests it. Perhaps NHTSA plans to test an Altima w/SAB in the future? It would be highly logical as they've done it for many vehicles.
But here's the bad news, for those hopeful that having side air bags will help.
I would NOT assume that the Altima with side air bags would get a "4" in the crash test. I think one can be hopeful, but one can't assume. Witness the 2002 Nissan Maxima tested, where the addition of the side airbags did decrease the thoracic trauma but not enough to make it give it an extra star over the Maxima without side airbags. There are many vehicles in the following list where the side airbags didn't raise the star-score over the version without the side airbags:
http://www.nhtsa.gov/NCAP/Cars/2002MidS.html
In fact, my theory is that the addition of side air bags will NOT improve the Altima's side-impact crash test scores!!
The side air bags in the Altima (and most if not all Nissans) are meant to protect one's thorax, and not the pelvis. According to the NHTSA injury data, the g's on the pelvis were 114g's, while the thoracic trauma index (TTI) was 86.
I think the side air bags in the Altima might reduce the thoracic trauma somewhat, but I think it'll have little or no effect on the pelvic deceleration. The primary cause of the three-star rating seems to be the relatively high pelvic decleration. Thus I would speculate that even with side airbags, the score will stay at three stars for the driver.
By comparison, the driver for the Maxima with side airbags gets a TTI of 66, and a pelvic deceleration of 87g's. The addition of side airbags improved the TTI, but not the pelvic deceleration. Thus both versions of the Maxima got four stars.
Now, this is just my speculation (as I don't know the precise amount that side airbags would reduce the TTI). I think it'll take an actual NHTSA test. But I would definitely not assume that getting side airbags gives you a 4-star for the driver!
NHTSA says that side impact tests are comparable across all weight classes (as opposed to the frontal tests which are not comparable).
The Honda Civic 4-door without side airbags is 4/4.
The Honda Civic 2-door without side airbags is 5/5.
The Honda Accord 4-door without side airbags is 4/4.
The ES300 is 5/4; not sure if the Camry will do the same.
Now, if it turns out that adding side airbags boosts the score to 5/4, then there's no problem. I guess we'll see!
The Altima S with several options (ABS, bags, convenience, fogs, moonroof, and side sills/mug guards) came out to $20,412. So it's a good value, at least.
A Camry SE came out to $20,335, and a Legacy GT is also in the $20s after a rebate, and the Subie throws in AWD for free.
Millenia is automatic only. She insists on a 5 speed. You go, girl.
-juice
Also, the 03 Passat will be about the only family car that will be available with ESP.
However, you can get stability control for the Altima SE, as well as the V6 trims of the Camry (VSC). Dunno if the next-gen Accord will have VSA, Acura's version of stability control).
But at least the Passat doesn't restrict you to the type of engine choice.
VW will use the Mercedes-Benz-licensed ESP (probably from Bosch), just like Audi does. In that case, its stability control is somewhat better than that in most Japanese systems, which apparently are not full-range stability control systems. In full-range systems, ESP still works while braking, e.g. when trying to slow down but the vehicle begins to skid and fishtail. I don't _think_ the Altima's stability control system is full-range but I'd like to be wrong on this.
And the ASR traction control is full range on the Passat too. Most TRAC systems just work below 25mph. My ASR on my Jetta (the same system) saved my butt a couple times, mid-acceleration when hitting a slick spot.
The Altima does not have stability control available (at least not yet).
Vehicles that have it available include the V6-equipped Camry's, and supposedly the 2003 Passat. Also the Subaru Outback H6 VDC. Some European Jettas have it too.
For some reason I thought Nissan was going to put it on the 2003 Maxima but I'm probably wrong here. It's available on more expensive models like the Infiniti G35, Audis, BMW's, MB's, Lexus's, etc.
Within several years you'll find stability control available on most family sedans and even compacts.
Please note that while stability control systems are generally acknowledged to improve safety, some enthusiasts dislike how they remove some of the "fun" factor. In some vehicles you can shut it off partially or entirely, and such enthusiasts do it with regularity (I've noticed a lot of A4 owners doing this).
Again, my apologies.
I guess for now it's on the pricier models. Ford Focus is an exception, but that's not on our shopping list.
-juice
Juice: Forget about stability control, the Focus needs some quality control first.
-juice
JZ
-juice
At any rate, based upon the Altima's splendid sales numbers, the car has been quite a success story so far. So, I'd hazard a guess that nobody associated with the Altima at Nissan is being chastised right about now.
Grand High Poobah
The Fraternal Order of Procrastinators
I don't plan on trading in my Altima for another Altima in 3-4 years so...
When I was getting my car serviced, I checked out the other Altimas as well as the Maximas. I was bored out of my mind! The Altimas now seem to have better cloth materials. The Maxima w/ the navigation system looked pretty cool too. I'm probably going to get the G35 coupe next so it really doesn't matter for me but for the potential buyer, you may see a slight improvement.
Check out leatherseats.com for more pictures. I believe this is the supplier Nissan uses for dealer-installed leather.
Convienence
ABS
Mats
Guards
Polished Pewter
Will be looking at some aftermarket goodies soon.
Here is what I paid
20200 Invoice
-1100 95 sable trade in
19100 Final
subjective item . Alot of the so-called experts
in the automotive press tended to be negative
about the interior, and this puts the thought in
the back of peoples minds when they look at
the car. Personally, the interior does not strike
me as being cheap so much as just lacking
in some visual interest and eye appeal ( ie.
rather plain looking door panels )
It would'nt take much to spiff it up a little. imho.
automatic
charcoal leather
Bose
moonroof
spoiler
mats and splashguards
microfilter.
The car was a demo with 3,750 miles and I paid invoice ($25,096). They also gave me a fair price for my trade($7500). KBB.com assesed the trade value at $6995. I also financed at 6.2% for 66 months. I am pretty happy with my deal. After subtracting 15 cents/mile, I felt comfortable with the price. So posters, how did I do? Let me know what you think.
Congrats to Marv also.
We're selling our 626 tomorrow and will start car shopping on Wednesday. It's the wife's car, and she may try out an Altima after all (with the side air bags package). I'll let you folks know how she likes it.
-juice
Obi
There has been no test yet for the Altima with side airbags.
The Maxima was tested both without and with side airbags. In both cases it was 4 stars for the front, 4 stars for the rear. With the side airbags, the Maxima's front injury measurements did increase slightly but not enough to make it 5 stars for the front.
You can see these tests at:
http://www.nhtsa.gov/NCAP/Cars/2002MidS.html
-juice
I know you are in the DC area. If you are considering a VW, Subaru, or Mazda, please check out Russel in Baltimore. It's http://www.russelautomotive.com. They have the best customer service of any dealer I have been to. Good luck!
It's for the wife, and we'll probably look at an Altima/Maxima, Camry, Accord, Legacy, and maybe a Passat. Her price target is $20k, though, which basically cancels the Passat and forces 4 bangers in the other cars.
It's gonna be tough, because she wants a 5 speed, moonroof, ABS, and a CD player, and I want 16" alloys, rear disc brakes, and AWD (or at least traction/stability control).
Are we being unrealistic? Totally. We'll probably aim for the closest match. They all run about $21k or so, with the Passat a little higher than that.
-juice
-juice
Might be a bit boy-racer, but it's a good value.
-jim
Nice car, but could use 20 more horses and definitely small for my wife. She thinks the Legacy might be too small, even.
Nissan gets points for a super-long 110" wheelbase, and a cavernous back seat. But she prefers the Maxima, which may be out of our price range. We'll see.
-juice
Your wife is asking alot of a car though. But most women do, right?
Sheehy (a no-haggle dealer with a convenient web site) has them for $24k and up, still a bit of a stretch. If she sees one and loves it, fine.
Altima S with 5 speed runs $20,055 and up. An SE runs $23,425.
I think Fitzmall.com's prices may be lower still. They have a Passat with alloys and a moonroof for $22,576.
I know, I'm all over the place. I'm going to let her drive them and pick a car, then we'll equip it the way we can afford to.
-juice
Used 2002 Altima 3.5 SE
Sheer Silver
Clean Carfax report (4 months old, 4300 miles)
Bose CD6
ABS/Airbags
HID Xenon
Sunroof
Traction
Spoiler
$24,300 out the door (so about a $22,000 price)
I would prefer a new Opal Blue SE with the leather/wood trim package, but thought this might be too good of a deal to pass up.
Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.
With the trade-in, use KBB.com as well as the TMV scale here to look up the value. Also go to http://www.nadaguides.com and look up the price there. Figure the average price for the car using those sources. Then go from there. ALWAYS talk trade-in AFTER you deal on the car. Do NOT work it into the deal of the car. They are 2 separate things.
Email the internet sales manager at 2 or more different dealerships, and offer him the price for the car you want. Make it $200 over invoice, just to see if he bites. Take the best price, but NOT above the TMV for the car you want with the equipment you want.
I say $200, but I don't actually own an Altima. It seemed about right though, for a family car. Anyone have anything else to add?
I'm hearing that even dealerships that have obnoxious car salesmen tend to have someone cool and well-informed as the "internet specialist" or whatever they call them. It's probably smart to work with the internet salesman if you can.
Your great power over the dealers is your willingness to "walk," to leave the showroom if you don't like what is being offered. Exercise that power freely, using your inside knowledge (gained on this site) to guide you.
Steve
Felisa: no-haggle dealers were made for people like you. Try fitzmall.com for one in the DC area. You get already discounted prices with no haggling and no surprise fees later. If you're not close to DC, look for a no-haggle dealer in your region.
I've personally owned two aftermarket moonroofs, and was 100% satisfied with both. They were ASC models, installed by ASC certified shops. Neither ever leaked or squeeked.
-juice
After having an independent dealership inspect the Altima, they discovered that the car had been in an accident severe enough to require both rear quarter panels to be removed and repaired. All damage has been repaired to the point that there is no way to tell from the exterior, but given the uncertainty regarding the accident, we've decided against buying the car. This reinforces the lesson to never buy a used car without first getting an independent inspection.
Now, to find the Opal Blue SE with leather . . .
I'm going to take tomorrow off to test drive cars, or I should say, to take the wife to drive them.
-juice