vw jetta oil consumption
ali64
Member Posts: 1
I have a 2000 jetta that is consuming oil. I am worried that this is not normal. I'm putting oil in about every 1000-1500 miles. The dealer gave me part of a technical service bulletin specifically regarding oil consumption...I'm worried he left out the pages saying my consumption is abnormal. They say this is normal and that the car has no leak. I see other people are having this problem too. This is bizarre. Should I sell? Should I buy an extended warranty? Or is this car defective and a lemon? My heat sensor has already been replaced and so has my glove compartment door. Is there a mechanic out there who knows whether or not this could be "normal" as vw is contending?
0
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
If your consumption drops under the "low normal range", or is even HEADED THAT WAY, month by month, then you HAVE a problem. But it is perfectly conceivable and quite okay to be using a quart every 1500 miles. Many very VERY expensive cars use oil, and some are even designed to do so. In fact, using some oil is a good thing. VW will absolutely not replace or repair an engine using a quart every 1,500 miles, and neither would I if I were them.
What I'd suggest is a few hopefully helpful things:
One, get the "lemon" idea out of your head. There is no such thing as a "lemon", that is, a TOTALLY bad car, no matter who or what government agency tells you. Sure, there are cars with defects, and some with REALLY BAD defects, but no car is made ALL BAD. This is impossible. So forget "lemon" and substitute "potential problem?" with a question mark. That is what you are dealing with.
Second, now that we have you out of negative thinking (which is only using your own mind to ruin your relationship to all those you can help you), I'd like to suggest that you CAREFULLY and accurately monitor your oil consumption by mileage, being sure to check the oil level in the same parking place and with the engine sufficiently cool (i.e., let all the oil drain back into the pan). Write down these readings (say once every 500 miles) and keep this record.
Third, be sure that your "concern" over the oil consumption is written down on a dealer repair order, with date and mileage, SO THAT in case you have a claim later on, you have a record of this complaint. This may help you considerably in an after-warranty adjustment of some sort.
Last of all, when anyone says "lemon" to you, put your finger in your ears; otherwise, you will completely spoil your experience with this very nice car. A Warranty and a good technician and a good dealer can handle any car problem. Scream "lemon" at them and they won't do anything for you but make you suffer, sue and jump up and down. Give the car and the dealer a chance before you jump to too many conclusions, okay?
As to lemons, well my lemon law states that bringing the vehicle back to the dealer "three" times for the same problem (and after the third time it remain not repaired) qualifies it as a "lemon" and subject to refund or replacement. As to irritating the dealer by discussing it. Well, upon my second visit to my Buick dealer (1,500 miles on the car and still leaking oil) I placed a copy of my state's lemon law on the dash.
the leak does not exist anymore!!!!!!
Later,
Al
But really, many expensive cars use oil (Porsches, Ferraris) and of course race cars are built "loose" and use some oil. It isn't "abnormal" to burn oil as long as it is not excessive. And a quart every 1,500 miles, or even 1,000 miles (if it stabilizes there) isn't abnormal. It's on the low side of normal, true, but doesn't mean there's a "defect".
What it IS...is inconvenient, because then you have to check it.
My dad was a roving field engineer for a prestige automaker, and he never failed to fix a client's car, sooner or later. Of course, his company went out of business.....hmmmm........
Do you drive your car hard? Faster than 70mph everyday? I've heard these can contribute to oil loss.
The engine hasn't changed that much in 12 to 13 model years. Actually VW engines are very durable.
Anyone who says that VW doesn't care about their customers is right. I understand what Mr, S is saying. But if my car was using that much oil I wouldn't be happy!
Engine design is compromise, and VW engineers may have factored some oil burning into their compromise...perhaps they get more HP/per liter or faster warm up...maybe they were fishing for some advantage.
In all the discussion , twice it has been mentioned that VW doesnt care for its customer. I say thats completely false. I own a VW bug. I bought it when it had 25k miles on it. First week its instrument cluster broke. Since 25k no warrenties. Called VW, they fixed it free of charge. After two months Oxygen sensor and Catalyic converter broke. Called VW, complained whinned, they offer to pay for every thing but I had extended warrenty, it was covered. Next month indicator rely broke, Called VW, concerned , worried, aggrevaited, again they offered a full repair at the dealer free of cost but again covered under extended warranty.
Though I got many problems in my BUG but every time I called VW they offered me full service free of charge. They do stand by their products and they do care if you talk to them properly.
Naveed
Thanks for the feedback from Jiffy Lube....it is interesting, but not really solid data, as you have no control group or valid sampling. This is what we call anecdotal evidence, which might be good enough to support a good statistical model but can't substitute for one.
All this is NOT to say that perhaps there really is a problem with VW engines. I just think the issue is not at all proved by the oil cosumption levels of a quart every 1,500 miles, nor is it proved by a few unfortunate folks who post greater oil consumption here on these boards. There are a LOT of VWs out there, and we don't know what they are all doing.
I'd say that if something like 5-10% of all new VWs burned a quart of oil every 1,000 miles or less, I'd call that a maufacturing defect. Less percentage than that, or at 1,500 miles a quart on up, and it's more like the variation you'd expect in any manufacturing process. That's my opinion, anyway.
What you need to worry about is if, by careful monitoring, you notice your oil consumption going down and down, and finally approaching the manufacturer's lower limits. If it's just consistently burning a quart every 1,500 miles, you don't have a problem, period, either with the engine or the catalytic or anything else. It's the *rate* of burning mile after mile that you need to pay attention to. It should not keep dropping.
Mark
For instance, think of all the variables:
Is the car driven regularly at high speed or high rpm? (will burn more oil)
Is the car driven only for short trips? (oil dilution and evaporation)
Is the engine overfilled or underfilled?
Is the level being checked properly or read properly each time?
Are there possible leaks?
Any of the above will affect the oil consumption--"Your results may vary".
At a quart every 1,500 miles, I would guess oil contamination to be quite minimal and performance or longevity not to be affected. So again I tell people not to worry about a certain amount of oil burning. You are fretting over what may be nothing at all in terms of engine life or internal troubles.
The only real downside of oil consumption (within factory limits) is the danger of not checking it and running low. This is an annoyance I know and so I do understand why some owners don't like it. Also, people are mistaken in that they think they may be polluting more, but in fact an oil burning car within factory limits can pass a smog test as easily as one that hardly burns any at all.
The whole thing looks a lot worse than it actually is, kind of like Monday morning.
Best Regards,
Shipo
I dont remember how much my oil was burned when i own the Scirroco but 1 quart at 1000 miles seems way too excessive to me.
This problem as well as others has turned me off to VW. I dont think that I will ever buy one again. Aside from the persistent rattles, My glove box lever has broken off, I had a loose engine mount and the reception on my radio has turned sour. I took the car in for the engine job and when I got it back the radio no longer worked properly. Now the dealer is telling me that I need to had a $400 job done to repair the problem. I am thinking that it is a bad connection and I am in the process of checking it out, but it is still frustrating. If I wanted all of these problems, I would have bought a used car. It is extremely frustrating.
I broke it in the old fashioned way on the highway. I drove it round trip about 2200 miles at varying speeds including high speeds.
gordo
Anyway, I own a 99 Jetta GLS....when I bought the car used, oil didn't even register on the dipstick. It was 2.5 quarts low since the guy I bought it off of assumed it didn't burn oil. I topped it off and discovered that my 2.0L engine burned a quart of oil every thousand miles. I called Volkswagen and they told me the same bullsh*t line that it is normal! UMMMM NO IT ISN'T NORMAL! DON'T LET ANYONE TELL YOU THAT. My father had a 85 Buick LeSabre that didn't burn that much oil! To the facts though....
I took my Jetta to the dealers service manager who said they see it quite often and there is a problem, and Volkswagen says it is normal. He followed with, "Volkswagen is a very secretive company." He continued to explain that after much prying and complaining on his part, he finally discovered that there is a set of VIN numbers that are known to have the problem. He was told that some 2.0L engines(only VW engine to be built in Mexico) were assembled with the piston rings upside down!!!! They said only a few of them had the problem.....more like 30,000 engines!!! If VW considers it normal, I am curious why they have a set series of serial numbers to cross reference the problem with. Mine happened to between this list of VIN numbers so as we speak, it is being repaired. They are replacing the pistons, rings, and depending on how they look when the engine is apart, the bearings. I am trying to get them to put it in writing so I can send it to my brother in Chicago who also has a jetta 2.0L burning oil (surprise surprise) and the dealer is spitting the same line, "it's normal". Only thing I have to say about that is if it normal, why doesn't the commercial say "Mechanics wanted." instead of "Drivers wanted."
More interesting notes on what else VW considers normal on my Jetta:
Bad emissions sensor triggering the check engine light and making my car smell funny.
Power Window Regulator that malfunctions and drops the passenger window into the door...and then charging $350 to fix it (luckily they paid for the part but I was still stuck with $200 in labor)
Rear ashtrays that lose the springs and don't work properly.
All these things wouldn't be such an issue if:
#1 Volkswagen wouldn't be so shady and would make efforts to try to help the customer instead of covering for their mistakes.
#2 The vehicles had a real warranty as opposed to the 2 year 24,000 miles joke and the illusion that there is a 10 year/100,000 miles warranty on power train (only 5 year/50,000 for second owners and after all that, they put you through hoops before they actually warrany anything)
Would you post the range of the VIN? My car (VW 00 Beetle) burns oil too. I use synthetic oil, it doesn't help to reduce the consumption.
I'm not defending VW, just telling you you don't have a case unless your oil consumption gets a LOT worse. Also, I would encourage you to have the dealer monitor your oil consumption to see what it really is. Sounds like you really don't know exactly.
Last of all, don't ever mention to the dealer that the previous owner ran it low on oil, or you are a dead duck.
I bought new and did first change at 1k, then 3k intervals. A change adding manual's recommended volume gives me a dipstick reading of 1/4" over the "F" level, but it's not enough to bother me and I don't think it's causing any harm.
My 2k Accord v6, bought new also, uses a couple of ounces btw 3k changes, but it does get dark pretty fast. But I don't think that's a problem either. I'll just be consistent with the 3k intervals. And I just use regular Mobil dino 5w/30 in both. Any dino oil that has the star burst API certification mark and the appropriate API service rating is quite sufficient. The accord has @25k miles and the pro has @ 9k.
I had a good laugh when I read the one about letting the oil drain over night so as to get all the old oil out. That's being a little extreme as far as I'm concerned. But then, it appears 3k changes are extreme to some people and certainly unnecessary according to the owners manuals. But I've got no problems with oil consumption, so it works for me. If either used a quart after 1k miles I'd certainly be concerned and I think it's ridiculous to ever consider it normal in a new or low mileage car, regardless of the make.
Using porsches and ferraris as examples doesn't make a whole lot of sense either. The majority of us readers probably haven't even sat in one much less owned one.
Oil consumption is a phenomenon unique to internal combustion engines and consists of many separate mechanisms.
Because internal combustion engines are fueled primarily by burning of hydrocarbons, and lubricants also are flammable hydrocarbons, it is only natural that some of the lubricating oil is also burned in the combustion process.
Engine design, quality of construction, materials used, types and frequency of use, maintenance, fuel and lubricant used all affect the lubricating oil consumption. Although each of these variables may have only very minor effect on oil consumption their cumulative effect determines the total oil consumption of particular engine.
Car owners often ask about what is "normal" oil consumption, however just as there is no answer to what is "normal" fuel consumption for all vehicles, there is no such thing as "normal" oil consumption for all engines. Just as different automobiles can vary widely in fuel consumption from but few miles per gallon to well over
50 MPG, similarly there is wide variance in how much oil does engine consume.
Highly stressed racing engine can consume quart of oil in less than 100 miles, while engine in small economy car which is driven on highway under ideal operating conditions can consume less than one quart in 10,000 miles.
Therefore the only aspect that is important is to determine what is typical and normal oil consumption for your particular engine. Any deviation from that norm is considered "abnormal" and merits investigation.
Car owners often boast about their car "not using any oil", however this is not true. Every internal engine consumes some lubricant, however if the car is properly maintained and the oil changed very frequently, the amount of oil used between the oil changes may be so small as to go unnoticed.
There are three methods for calculating the oil consumption:
The first method: Miles per Quart of Oil [MPQ] is the most frequently used or quoted by car owners and just as Miles per Gallon of Fuel it is relevant only if compared to identical car under identical operating conditions.
The second method: Percentage of Fuel used [OC%] is used by automotive engineers to compare engine designs, engine design quality as well as severity of service.
The third method: Grams of Oil per kilowatt-hour of Power Output [g/kW-h] is the only truly scientific method which is used in certification bench tests.
For example:
The maximum allowable oil consumption for motor oil to qualify for API CG-4 service classification is: 0.304 g/kW-h.
( Or its equivalent in U.S. measuring system, i.e. 0.0005 lb./bhp-h = pounds of motor oil per brake horsepower hour ).
However, this method is of little value to average motorist, since it is difficult to calculate.
Data such as Oil& Specific Gravity, Engine Hours of Operation and Engine Power Output are required.
HOW TO CALCULATE OIL CONSUMPTION
(Miles per Quart of Oil):
1. Check oil level with engine OFF and car on LEVEL surface when engine is COLD and before any driving of the car.
The oil level should be between LOW or MIN and FULL or MAX marks.
Adjust oil level to MAX, but do not overfill !
2. Note the Odometer mileage. (Miles @ START of the Test)
3. Drive car 2,000 to 5,000 miles, checking oil about every 500 miles or once a week.
4. When Oil Level reaches LOW or MIN, add enough oil to reach the FULL or MAX mark, (about one quart for most cars).
5. Note the amount of oil used in ounces (quart is 32 oz.).
6. Note the Odometer mileage when oil is added. (Miles @ END of the Test)
7. SUBTRACT MILEAGE #2 (START) from MILEAGE #6 (END) and DIVIDE by OUNCES in #5 and MULTIPLY the result by 32.
The result is how many miles you drive before adding one quart of oil is required or your engine's oil consumption in MPQ (Miles per Quart of Oil).
Formula:
Motor Oil Consumption (Miles per Quart) MPQ = ([Odo End] - [Odo Start]) / [Oil]
HOW TO CALCULATE OIL CONSUMPTION
(Percentage of Fuel used):
1. Check oil level with engine OFF and car on LEVEL surface when engine is COLD and before any driving of the car.
The oil level should be between LOW or MIN and FULL or MAX marks.
Adjust oil level to MAX, but do not overfill !
2. Fill the fuel tank to full
3. Note the Odometer mileage.
4. Drive car 2,000 to 5,000 miles, checking oil about every 500 miles or once a week.
5. Each time you buy fuel note the amount of fuel (Gallons) purchased.
6. When Oil Level reaches LOW or MIN, add enough oil to reach the FULL or MAX mark,
(about one quart for most cars).
7. Note the amount of oil used in ounces (quart is 32 oz.).
8. Fill the fuel tank to full
9. Note the Mileage when oil is added.
10. SUBTRACT MILEAGE #3 from MILEAGE #9 and DIVIDE by OUNCES in #5 and MULTIPLY the result by 32.
The result is how many miles you drive before adding one quart of oil is required or your engines MPQ (Miles per Quart of Oil).
11. Add up all the fuel purchased (Item #5 and #8).
12. SUBTRACT MILEAGE #3 from MILEAGE #9 and DIVIDE by GALLONS in #11 the result is your fuel consumption in MPG (Miles per Gallon of Fuel)
13. Take the result from #10 and MULTIPLY by 4 this will give you oil consumption in Miles per Gallon of motor oil.
14. DIVIDE the result from #12 [ MPG Fuel] by [Mpg Oil] from #13 and multiply the result by 100, the final result will be your engine's oil consumption expressed as percentage of fuel used.
EXAMPLE:
Car uses one quart of oil every 3,275 miles, that is a gallon every 13,100 miles (3275*4) and has a fuel mileage of 26.4 MPG. This is equal to an oil consumption of .2% which is considered excellent
FORMULAS:
Fuel Consumption (Miles per Gallon) MPG = ([Odo End] - [Odo Start]) / [Fuel]
Motor Oil Consumption (Miles per Quart) MPQ = ([Odo End] - [Odo Start]) / [Oil]
Motor Oil Consumption (Percentage of Fuel used) OC% = ([MPG] / ([MPQ]*4))*100
Legend:
Odo Start = Odometer mileage at Start of test in Miles
Odo End = Odometer mileage at End of test in Miles
Fuel = Fuel consumed during test in Gallons
Oil = Motor Oil Consumed during test in Quarts
HOW TO INTERPRET OIL USE.
Based on Miles per Quart of Oil.
Oil consumption depends on many factors and what may be normal for one car such as 500 miles per Quart of oil (MPQ), may be quite excessive for another car.
Typically brand new or rebuilt engine will consume up to five times more oil than "normal", and this oil consumption will gradually decrease (more MPQ), until engine has reached its mechanical "break-in".
Depending on use the break-in period may be from 500 to 30,000 miles.
The typical oil consumption after break in for older model engines is between 1,000 to 5,000 miles per quart. Good quality newer model engines with premium oils may consume as little as one quart per 6,000 or Based
The second method of calculating motor oil consumption that is based on actual fuel consumption is more scientific and more accurate, plus it can be used as a meaningful comparison between different vehicles and different engine designs.
It can be also used to compare quality of the lubricants that are used, i.e. better lubricant will be consumed at lesser rate.
High Oil Consumption or "Oil Burning"
More than 1% of Fuel Consumption.
Engine Related:
Any engine design that consumes more than 1% of lubricating oil and which is not suffering from mechanical leaks is "burning" quite a bit of the lubricant in the combustion process.
This will ultimately result in high exhaust emissions of unburned heavy hydrocarbons.
This however may not be necessarily an indication of a mechanical fault. For a large diesel engine of pre-1970 design, Wankel rotary (which injects oil to lubricate rotor seals), or any racing design that is known for lube oil appetite (Porsche, Ferrari, Maserati, etc.) such a high oil consumption may be quite normal.
Lubricant Related:
In modern engines that require API SJ or API SH multi grade lubricants high oil consumption will result if API SA single grade lubricants are used.
Use Related:
Any engine subjected to sudden and frequent WOT (Wide-Open-Throttle) accelerations and
FCT (Fully-Closed-Throttle) decelerations such as those encountered in some types of Racing (Auto Slalom, Autocross, Rally Racing, etc.) or in High Performance driving under severe conditions.
Normal Oil Consumption
Between .5% and .3% of Fuel Consumption.
Engine Related:
Any engine whose oil consumption is between .5% and .3% is considered normal and of good modern design. Most engines will fall into this category.
Lubricant Related:
This oil consumption is typical of most modern multigrade petroleum motor oils.
Use Related:
Typical oil consumption for most passenger vehicles in normal use.
Low Oil Consumption
Between .3% and .2% of Fuel Consumption
Engine Related:
Any engine whose oil consumption is between .3% and .2% is considered an excellent modern (usually low-emission) engine.
Lubricant Related:
If oil consumption this low is achieved in conventional engine the lubricant is superior (high flash point and low volatility) usually a synthetic.
Use Related:
The service is extremely favorable and mild (long distance, steady speed, moderate velocity and low load operation).
Ultra Low Consumption
Between .2% and .15% of Fuel Consumption
Engine Related:
Very efficient low emission engine of very recent design.
Lubricant Related:
High quality and low volatility synthetic multi grade lubricants such as SAE 5W-40 or SAE 5W-50 lubricants of API SJ/CH-4 quality.
Use Related:
Oil consumption this low is generally accomplished only in engines that are operated at steady speeds and steady loads such as in stationary industrial applications (power generation, pumping, etc.).
In automotive applications it is not unusual to see engines with Oil Consumption in .25% range if the vehicles are used in very light applications, such as light loads, level roads, moderate acceleration, and driving at moderate speeds (45 to 60 MPH) and if a high quality synthetic lubricants are also used.
"Dry" engines
Less than .1% of Fuel Consumption
Engine Related:
Engines that consume less than .1% of lubricating oil. Few experimental adiabatic
or ceramic engines are this good
I think a good point is made though. There is no one single "normal" for engines. You have to compare comsumption of your engine next to the "normal" range for your type of engine.
I was just trying to make a point that just because your VW engine burns some oil, that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with it. There MAY be, or may not be, and this is why you need to do a monitoring test to see how much oil is consumed. If it's in VW specs, then there's not much you can do, or even much to worry about.
Personally, I would always want a car that burns a bit of oil, but a quart every 1,000 on a new car could get on my nerves. Still, nerves aside, I wouldn't be worrying about it.
Thanks for your help, and this much needed discussion!
By this I mean that your case is not, at least not now, apparently grievous enough to challenge VW on these grounds.
If people ask me "Is a car that burns a quart of oil every 1,000 miles a lemon" I say no, it is not, because it could run forever that way and there are no signs of it getting worse. If, however, they ask me "Is a car that continues to increase its oil consumption rate month after month, and that has now dropped to 750 miles per quart and falling, a lemon"? I'd probably say it was.
Why the two different answers? Because case #1 may not in fact deteriorate. It may stabilize and may even improve (not likely to improve, but.....).
All my cars burn a quart every 1,000 more or less (I have three of them). I drive them hard and go anywhere in any climate at any time. I don't feel any of these cars are lemons. (Mercedes diesel, Alfa 164 sedan, Alfa Spider). Their combined mileage is 331,000.
Sour grapes in Mass.
These engines, made in Mexico, have a problem. The rings are not properly seated. My Service Manager told me that the problem may go away if you run your engine a bit. He suggested getting it up to 3000-4000 RPM before shifting. This will cause the rings to wear a little and hopefully seat properly. He also said,, "The problem may never go away. Your best bet is to start a paper trail." Our 2001 Silver 2.0L 5-speed is FANTASTIC except for this lone problem. The rate of oil consumption is slowing but will probably never go away entirely. My plan is to keep the car for another 2 years or until problems with oxygen sensors, exhaust ports, etc. (things related to excessive oil consumption) become common.
Overall, I am disappointed VW has not fixed this problem yet. There are obvious quality control problem with the factory in Mexico.