Subaru Impreza WRX Wagon

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Comments

  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    "On All-Wheel Drive (AWD) vehicles, it is extremely important that the rolling or outer circumferences of the tires be within 1/4 inch of each other. This means that you must physically measure the size of the tire. This is best done with the weight of the vehicle off the tire and at the tread centerline. Also be certain that the tires are properly inflated since this can affect your readings.

    If you need to replace just one tire, the same holds true. The measured difference in circumference between the replacement tire and the other tires on the vehicle cannot exceed 1/4 inch.

    Depending on the vehicle mileage, it might be better to replace all four tires.

    If the vehicle mileage is low and the tires have been rotated and driven at the proper inflation pressures, then you may be within the allowable 1/4-inch difference in circumference.

    If the difference between the new/replacement tire and the current tires is within this 1/4-inch maximum, then the tire should be compatible. If it is not, then other tires will need to be replaced to conform to the 1/4-inch rule.

    Exceeding this 1/4-inch difference in tire circumference can place unnecessary wear on drivetrain components, possibly causing them to wear out prematurely."
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That's about 1mm. SoA is really playing it safe and asking for 4 nearly identical diameters. I guess that's why the PSI changes for loaded/unloaded cars.

    -juice
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    Where are you guys finding that information? In the service manual? SoA recommendation (door sticker and owner's manual) for Impreza pressure is 32/29 for 16's and 33/32 for 17's.
    It doesn't mention loaded/unloaded. Perhaps that's only for the Forester.

    -Dennis
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Could be, I seem to remember 29/26 unloaded, 29/32 loaded up to full payload for mine.

    SoA has always been on the safe side, though.

    -juice
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    the '03 Forester is 29 front, 28/36 rear unloaded/loaded, off of the sticker on the door.

    Bluesubie, measuring the circumference while the tire is in the air is a whole different approach. That makes the tires initially correct, the load adjustment correction is then done by air pressure to balance tire diameters.

    Juice, my guess is the air pressure is used to compensate for the tire diameter unloaded vs loaded. After all, you spread 900 lbs fully loaded capacity over 4 tires, that is only 225 lbs per tire (maybe 300 lbs max considering axle percentages). That is a fairly minor weight increase, the tires are not overloaded at 28-29 psi when an additional 300 lbs are added. Weight distribution of the car front to back when unloaded is one indicator of this.

    John
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    That's my question. Why does SoA have these recommendations for the Forester, and not the Impreza or OB? They all have the same payload rating, IIRC. Or is the Forester's payload more than the OB or Impreza? Impreza WRX Wagon that is (too keep it on topic ;)).

    -Dennis
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'll take John's word because I'm going from (weak) memory. ;-)

    Dennis: perhaps they expect the Forester to carry boxy/heavy loads, due to its shape? It is a utility vehicle after all.

    -juice
  • kevin111kevin111 Member Posts: 991
    2 pi r = Diameter x pi

    .25"/ pi * 2 = 0.16" change in diameter of a wheel

    0.16 *2.5 = 4 mm

    If the wheel's diameter changes more than 4 mms there there is an issue.
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    circumference = 2 x pi x radius

    0.25" / 2 / pi = radius = 0.0397" = 1.0 mm

    We can assume that all the tire compression is in the lower part of the tire, or "r". Now, imagine that "r" represents the compressed circle's circumference, the true diameter of the deflected tire is actually 2 x r or 0.0795" or 2 mm less. Keep in mind, we don't actually have a diameter we can measure, just a radius, since the tire isn't acually a circle. Thus, if the wheel's radius changes more than 1mm we have an issue. However, all of the tires will be compressing (hopefully at the same rate) under a load, so we get back to tire pressure being the big equalizer for making the subbie run correctly. As long as all the tires compress the same 1mm, or 3 mm, etc,., we are ok.

    John
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    How did the test go by the way?

    -mike
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    didn't do it (yet). I don't think I can measure the circumference using a rolling technique, besides it appears that the 1/4" measurement of circumference is with the tire in the air. I can do the radius or diameter (as the change in diameter is the same as the change in radius in this case). That would give me a number, but it doesn't mean anything if the spec is for tire circumference in the air. Any suggestions for a meaningful test? Also, I don't think I can measure diameter within 1 mm. 5 or 6 mm is do-able. Just to measure something without an objective in mind doesn't interest me much.

    John
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    I think you would need help with that.
    One to drive and brake and the other to watch and call the stop.

    -Dave
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I'm pretty sure you can do it on the ground, you would need 2 people however.

    -mike
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    I've seen a lot of people suggest that.

    -Dennis
  • cinosweivecinosweive Member Posts: 166
    Try this:

    Get on a nice long stretch of quiet, straight roadway. Mark the center bottom of all 4 tires with chalk. Measure the diameter of 1 tire, it needn't be precise. Let's say it's 19.1 inches. Then each tire revolution is 5 ft of travel. 1/4" of variance per revolution would put the chalk marks off by 1" after 20 ft or 5" after 100 ft. 5" of circumference is pretty easy to measure. Do your own math and then play around w/ different tire pressures. You are not interested in measuring the exact circumference or diameter, that is too difficult to measure anyway - you are only concerned with the difference - that is pretty easy to determine accurately. Good luck - let us know how you make out!

    BTW - measurement in the air isn't very meaningful because the differential isn't affected by what is happening when the tires are in the air. The rolling method measures the true "rolling" circumference, which is what impacts the differential. Even then, the differential isn't impacted by the true circumference, only the variance.
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    I agree, your method would be the best. It would be a juggling act to drive straight and count tire revolutions. Possible, but it needs two people for good results. Still, if the specs are 1/4" for tires in the air, that doesn't necessarily translate to 1/4" on the ground being the "within specifications" number, do you think?

    John
  • cinosweivecinosweive Member Posts: 166
    You don't really have to count tire revolutions. If you know the approximate diameter or the circumference, you will be able to calculate the number of revolutions by how far you have driven. Put 2 chalk marks on the road, say 100 ft apart. Start with your front wheels on one and drive until they cross the second. It doesn't really matter if you start or end exactly on the chalk mark because even if you are off by 2 ft in 100 that is only 2%. It is not like a variance of .245 inches in tire circumference is fine and .255 inches is devastating. It is all a matter of degree.

    I think the reason the spec states that diameter be measured in the air is because that is the only practical way you can measure a diameter. On the ground, tires are no longer truly circular. Still, my WAG is that the 1/4 inch thing is based upon actual variance in rotational movement from wheel to wheel, which is more accurately determined using the rolling method. This method is not effected by tire pressures or vehicle loading and is more tolerant of small measurement errors. It also allows you to experiment with different tire pressures to see if that makes a significant difference in rotational circumference.
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    Still, there must be some subbie techs out there with the data. Wish one would jump in, after all, it is their specs and tire pressure so the data exists somewhere.

    John
  • redscoobyredscooby Member Posts: 55
    This is my first post, although I am no stranger to the WRX boards (been lurking and reading for over a year now!). Have spent much of the last 18 months wanting a WRX but always found a reason why not to buy just yet. But below invoice prices and low financing was too much to resist. Last weekend I picked up an '03 WRX wagon in Sedona Red with performance pkg, sound pkg, security upgrade, carbon fiber & cargo net, all for $22,700 (almost $1000 under invoice). Also got 2 years of free oil changes and tire rotations. I am one happy Scooby owner. Just wanted to share my news and also say "thanks" to everyone on this board (especially the regulars) for all the great info on the WRX and Subarus in general. You folks helped keep me on the WRX trail, and the posts on what others are paying helped me push for a great deal on an '03.
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    Congratulations Chris!!! :)

    Sedona Red is a rare colour, for a wagon to add.
    I've been thinking lately that I should have gotten my wagon in Sedona Red.
    Do share a picture or two. I've yet to see a Sedona Red WRX wagon.

    -Dave
  • revkarevka Member Posts: 1,750
    and congrats on your '03 WRX wagon. Thanks for sharing your story.... We look forward to hearing more about your ownership experience! ;-)

    Revka
    Host
    Hatchbacks & Wagons Boards
  • cinosweivecinosweive Member Posts: 166
    John:

    Here is a link on tire pressures you may (or may not) find useful. How is the testing going?

    http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/tech/0208scc_tires/
  • redscoobyredscooby Member Posts: 55
    Dave - I originally wanted the WR Blue or Silver, and had not really considered (or even seen) Sedona Red. Once I saw it, I liked the color immediately - quite a subtle shade of red. Will try to post a picture.
  • redscoobyredscooby Member Posts: 55
    http://members.cox.net/redscooby/100_0007_1.jpg

    http://members.cox.net/redscooby/100_0008_1.jpg

    http://members.cox.net/redscooby/100_0009_1.jpg
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    She's a beauty. I should had bought a Red... argh!!!
    Oh well, Pebbles has been good. No regrets there. :)

    Thanks Chris, for my first sighting of a wagon in Sedona
    Red.

    -Dave
  • twrxtwrx Member Posts: 647
    As it goes along feel free to ask questions. I have a WR Blue 2002 5 speed wagon with 25,000 miles.
    TWRX
  • j0elboyj0elboy Member Posts: 32
    I had to toss a coin, Silver? Red? Silver won, I like them both. I'd suggest tinting the windows, I did mine and it looks terrific. Your pix indicate that you'd have the same result.

    BTW: Be really mindful of the way you cruise after the break--in period. B and I were having this intense discussion on our way to Cleveland last weekend, and I was generally keeping up with the rest of the pack--and kinda paying attention to everything else. I think the interior sound level was about at the same place that sounded like 65MPH in the '99 Forester I replaced....you can imagine the effect of improved sound proofing in the newer WRX? Yep, 79MPH in a 55!!!! Dug deep into the wallet to the tune of a "sin-tax --$173.00!!!"

    So we set the cruise to a safe and legal 65MPH, felt like crawlin too.

    Gees....

    j0elboy says "Happy Trails to You..."
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The red looks good. That's exactly the car and color we sat in when we went to the Philly auto show for the WRX debut in the Mid-Atlantic, two years ago.

    -juice
  • redscoobyredscooby Member Posts: 55
    250 miles so far, not that I'm counting .... just looking forward to the end of the break-in period. So far I love everything about the car. Nice to be shifting my own gears again after 8 years with autos. One thing that surprised me was how large the front windshield looks from the driver's seat - the higher roofline on the wagon really makes for a great view out front. Seats are firm but comfortable and very supportive, just like my cars back in the UK. Plenty of room in the back for my 4 yr old and 7 yr old.

    Only problem so far is that the CD player does not work. It accepted a single disc but will not play it or eject it. Going back to the dealer this week for a replacement unit.

    Thinking of switching to synthetic oil at the first oil change. Any advice on when to switch (1000 or 3000) or what brands to use would be appreciated. Thanks.
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    well, I did my first oil change @ ~2300 miles, and I put in Mobil1 5W 30.
    Looking to flush the ATF [yes, it's a chook-a-matic :D ] and putting in syn there too, along with the front & rear diffs sometime soon.

    -Dave
  • tjm1198tjm1198 Member Posts: 10
    I want a WRX!! Im just having a hard time debating over the color choice. I like the silver for a sleek look and the blue for a boy racer look but the red one that redscooby had made me add that to the list of choices. I need some input from anyone who has one of the above mentioned colors. How easy are they to keep spotless? Does one get dirtier then the other?

    Also would like any general input about the WRX as a daily driver's car? Is it easy enough to drive for 2+ hours on the freeway & then back & forth to work/school? How accomidating is it in terms of luggage & cabin stowage (i.e. cell phone, cd cases, etc.) I will NOT get the auto so how easy is the manual to drive? Any owner input would be great!! Thanks a lot
  • pbaldypbaldy Member Posts: 15
    I talked to the service manager at the dealer where I bought my Rex. He is well respected by the regional scooby crowd. His first comment was that he didn't feel synthetic was worth it at all. Having said that, he said if I was going to switch, wait until the engine is "well broken in", not before 10,000 miles. One man's opinion, but a pretty knowledgeable man.

    Paul
  • mikenkmikenk Member Posts: 281
    I am not sure there is a topic with as many diverse opinions as if and when to switch. My Subie service manager highly recommended Synthetics for the engine and transmission for my VDC and WRX; I made the engine switch at my second oil change and use 5000 mile intervals using Mobil 1.

    And I would do it again.

    Mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    TJ: do you like the wagon? It's sort of a practical 5 door hatch, a rare breed. If you're worried about luggage...

    Silver will be easiest to keep clean. Blue and red are attractive, but they do draw attention from police too.

    -juice
  • j0elboyj0elboy Member Posts: 32
    After you get used to the sports car-like suspension it's actually fun to drive, you feel as if you're in control again. But it's well sound proofed and those speeds can easily creep upward ( see my post of #3644!)

    I am thinking a good laser/radar detector would be a wise investment. I now use the cruise control to control me!

    I teach art and think that the silver is the most flattering color for the shape of the wagon--it just looks all of a piece to me. FWIW

    j0elboy
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    There was an Edmunds chat with a couple of techs from SoA and one said switch at the first change.

    Subaru recommends the first at 3,750. I switched to Mobil1 10W30 at 7,500 since first one was free from the dealer.

    -Dennis
  • lippoldslippolds Member Posts: 39
    I went through the same color issues and got a silver wagon. I have been very happy with the color. Even this winter with all the snow, the car looked great.
  • cinosweivecinosweive Member Posts: 166
    It is interesting that the mechanic who said that synthetic oil wasn't worth it, also said to wait until the engine was "well broken in" before switching. If it protects against wear so well that you should wait until after breakin before switching, then I'd say it is "worth it".
  • redscoobyredscooby Member Posts: 55
    Our other vehicle is silver. After less than 2 weeks with the red WRX, I can say that our silver van definitely stays clean looking for longer.
  • merrycynicmerrycynic Member Posts: 340
    I understand Subaru is trying to shed their stodgy image and appeal to younger buyers. But. Why no STi wagon? Why no premium package for WRX wagons? Doesn't Subaru know that wagons are now cool? In the US wagon buyers were and are the heart and sole of Subaru, and have been so since day one. Why abandon them now? Is this an omen? Am I going to have to buy my next sport wagon from Audi or VW? Say it ain't so.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Let's hope they wake up and make it a running change for MY2004.

    -juice
  • axp696axp696 Member Posts: 90
    In the US wagon buyers were and are the heart and sole of Subaru, and have been so since day one.

    It's clear from Subaru's position that they think otherwise. Perhaps there's something they know that you don't.
  • cinosweivecinosweive Member Posts: 166
    It's the GM influence. GM management has already destroyed their own car line, now they're just diversifying.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    The STi is a sports car, an all out sports car, I don't think it should come in a wagon variety. However I do feel they should have a wagon with premium package.

    Heck Airconditioning and stereo are OPTIONAL on the STi!

    Look at the Porsche, I don't see a wagon in their lineup, no M3 Wagon, No ferrari wagon, nope :) The STi is meant to be a very limited run and "special" vehicle.

    -mike
  • dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    "Semi-automatic" A/C is STANDARD on the STi.

    ..but there's always the Audi RS4 and RS6 wagons; that is if they'd ship them across the Atlantic. :)

    DaveM
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    hmm my friend just picked up 2 of them and one had AC the other didn't. Maybe one was a pre-production one.

    -mike
  • john889john889 Member Posts: 3
    Are you kidding me? driver of the STI may want to rid of the back seats just to save some weight, and you want to get a wagon, jeez...
    But if you really want, you could turn the STI into a wagon, just use the giant spoiler wing as the starting point...
  • dsattlerdsattler Member Posts: 135
    Porsche DOES make an SUV, though, which sure looks like a wagon to me.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    And everyone makes un of the porche SUV. So far I've only seen em being used to tow Porsches to the track. I don't see any subie that is able to be towed behind an STi wagon. And you certainly won't see the Cayanne winning any road races v. sports cars.

    -mike
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