Subaru Impreza WRX Wagon

robmarch

"what? I thought the 1-series was going to be dimunitive, lightweight thing... has the plan changed?

if I'm not wrong, then I hardly envision a 3100lb wagon (before leather and other gizmos) competing with that."

More about competing at the price point with a sportier car, than the style or weight of the car. Plus, I'll belive that the 1 series is "light" when I see it. I don't consider the Mini light for its size, and the 1 series should be significantly bigger than that.

and...I'd check the all season box on my STi, if there were good performance all season tires. I think it's great to give the magazines the best numbers, but I'd trade .01G for better tread wear and some snow passibility.

himiler

The Mini may be heavy for its size, but it's also much stronger than its size would suggest.

robmarch

I'm not knocking the mini, and I'm not questioning their reasoning for trading weight for strength and stiffness. I just don't think the 1-series will be as light as we all hope/think.

still, they've proven that they can make a very fun car in the Mini. If the 1 series is a RWD version...it will be very fun.

Saab having a small, WRX based sport-luxury wagon at the 26-30k price point that's AWD will at least give them a player in the segment, since everything else will be RWD - Porsche, BMW, mercedes. (unless audi joins with an A3 quattro)

I know it's early, but if Porsche does put out a small RWD coupe at $30k, it's going to be very interesting to watch the market reaction. It's definitely going to steal market from the 325's and other lux coupes at $30k, and it may even steal market from those other $30k players, the STi and Evo:)

himiler

Agreed. Hopefully, BMW will make the 1-Series a more spartan, less luxury-minded car (ala Integra GS-R). If I wanted luxury bits and had the money, I'd buy a 3-Series.

Given the intended buyer, BMW had better not mess this car up by putting too high a kit level in it.

kevin111

I am guessing that if Saab gets the WRX it will be priced about $5000 over the regular WRX, or around $30K. The STi is rumored to be around $32K to $35K. I guess if the person is luxury minded they would go for the Saab, but if you are going to spend $30K+ on the Saab, why not step up for the STi? Maybe I am looking at this from a purely driving performance standpoint. Look how many 525is are sold (184 hp in a 4000lb sedan).

kenoka

I don't think so Kevin. The base 9-3 starts at an MSRP of about $26,000. Of course the 9-3 can run upwards of $40,000 too.

I would expect the 9-1 to be priced a couple thousand more than the WRX wagon. Maybe $5000 tops with a NAV system and all the goodies. So a $30,000 9-1 would appeal to a completely different buyer than a $32,000 STi.

ateixeira

An IS300 costs more than an Avalon. Bigger is sometimes cheaper.

The 9-1 would outperform the 9-3, so pricing it higher would be acceptable. It would probably have less of a price spread.

-juice

paisan

They could market the STi as a 9-1 Viggen? or Aero?

-mike

ateixeira

I wonder if Subaru would share that powerplant. I dunno...

-juice

dill6

anyone have any luck selling their stock WRX wheels? I got some aftermarket 17"ers, was going to keep the stokers for snows, but if I can get anything for them I might just go with 17" AS tires year around.

What're the stocks going for? two of the OEM Bridgestones are shot, 2 still have a few miles left in em.

ateixeira

I wish I still needed a set. Can't really justify it else I'd buy them myself. Plus you're in UT.

-juice

axp696

On some forums (which apparently I'm not allowed to name), I've seen full sets of OEM wheels and tires with under 5K miles go for $300-400. Of course, if someone hits a curb and needs a new rim, you can easily get $100 for a single wheel with no tire and save them the $200 they'd spend at the dealer. Personally, I'd keep the 16s to put all seasonals on so I wouldn't risk bending a good rim in a New England pothole.

locke2c

you can name, but you can't link directly to discussions there. apparently.

-Colin

hypov

hee hee most of the people at the competing site are over here regularly

Oh, Pebbles will be treated to a clear bra, STi muffler, and a rear waist spoiler soon.

-Dave

paisan

Depends on where you are selling them. Here in the NE over on nasioc.com I have a standing offer to buy WRX wheels for $150-$200 depending on condition. If you get $400 for them count your blessings!

The problem is that they are 16x6.5 a quite narrow width, so they are really only good as an upgrade for cars that came with 14" and 15" wheels or winter wheels for the newer cars with 16" wheels.

-mike

edge01

G'morning

I'm looking at replacing my 02 sedan with either a leftover 03 wagon or a new 04 wagon. My local dealers have some 04 wagons on the lot but have no idea what financing is on them and they seem to be bumping up invoice prices above what all web sources say they should be. (Using invoice as a baseline for pricing/mark ups) What are people getting left overs for as far as pricing.. invoice plus 500, under invoice etc?

beanboy

Looks like the Saabaru will use Subaru engines:

In GM's first product collaboration with Subaru owner Fuji Heavy Industries Ltd., the new Saab 9-2 will be based on Subaru's all-wheel-drive cars and will go into production at a Subaru plant in Japan next spring.

The base 9-2, with a 2.5-liter four-cylinder engine, will be based on the Impreza sedan; a high-performance model with a turbocharged 2.0-liter four-cylinder engine will be based on the sporty Subaru WRX, which has won strong reviews.

More at:
http://www.freep.com/money/autonews/saab16_20030416.htm

-B

overtime1

Hello all...I'm interested in current prices as well. Sounds like we can get a WRX wagon around invoice?

I went for a test drive the other day and had an absolute blast even though I have no idea how to drive a performance car. My current ride is a 2000 Passat wagon (with the 1.8T engine) but I'm looking for something a bit more fun and the WRX certainly seems to fit the bill. My only requirements are that I can fit a couple kids and dogs when needed (in which case my driving would become more tame hehe) and I didn't see any reason why I wouldn't be able to fit all that - the wagon seems to make good use of its space.

My wife (and I - when I'm allowed near it on weekends) already has an '03 MDX and thats our real family hauler (and tremendous vehicle) so the 2nd car only needs to serve as a way to move people/dogs from time to time but its mostly just me driving it and I'm thinking life is too short to drive boring cars ;-). Now I just need to see if my wife objects to the switch from the more refined Passat to the more rough and tumble WRX (which she'd have to drive infrequently). At least the Passat is a manual so I don't have to worry about that hurdle hehe.
Also...it looks like used WRX wagons are going for around $18k or so...that sound about right? I can probably squeeze $13k-14k out of the Passat so that gap isn't too big (coming on the heals of the MDX purchase...OUCH). The dealer had a used '02 with 10k miles on it for $21k...I don't think so...

Anyways, looks like a great group here and I'm looking forward to possibly becoming a member of the WRX club . Oh yeah...are there any other WRX community message boards as well?

OT

bkaiser1

I was just shopping WRX wagons last week (but I've decided against ditching my 01 Outback right now) and was shocked at how low the prices are on the 03's right now.

The lowest quote I got was from South Shore Motors at Lake Tahoe for $21,800...that's several hundred UNDER invoice for a 5sp wagon. The local Reno dealer was willing to do $22,300 for the same car, any color...and these were just the quotes received without haggling!

The catch is getting a good deal on your trade when you're trying to buy a new car under invoice...you may not fetch what you want on the trade if they're making so little on the new purchase. Anyway, it's a GREAT time to get an 03 before the 04's hit this month (they're still not out in the Western dealerships).

Brian

edge01

I had a dealer yesterday quote me invoice on the 04 was 24,000. Went to another dealer in the next town and the same care came in at what Edmunds and Carpoint said at 22,000 and change. I wonder where the difference came from? Was also told that the 04's will all be coming preconfigured from Subaru, all in the same trim/options, in the first two shipments. Won't be until the 3rd shipment that the dealers will be able to order them with customer specified options.

xcskier

Does anyone know where to get real, definitive information regarding the airbag-equipped passenger seat and kids?

I notice the visor says it's not safe for anyone under 12. Obviously, this is some lawyer/statistician statement, since there are small 12 year olds and large 8 year olds.

I would like to know a height and/or weight limitation, so I could make an informed decision.

My reason for asking is that my 10 year old twin daughters (each about 75 lbs) are getting tired of being chauffered around in the back seat. It's ok when they're together, but they lobby hard to sit in the front when they're alone with me in the car.

My 12 year old son (at 160 lbs) obviously qualifies for shotgun, and lords the 12-year rule over his sisters! It would be nice to let them take turns, if I knew an airbag deployment wouldn't be a disaster.

Thanks.

axp696

No definitive information, but I recall hearing from a few places that 100 lbs with average height was a safe minimum. My youngest brother was never allowed in shotgun until he reached that at age 10, despite the regular whining about it (it was never an issue for the rest of us older types).

allhorizon

I wouldn't do it under 100lbs/5'. I also recommend pushing the seat all the way back, making sure the seat belt is tight, and adjusting the seat as high as comfortable (if adjustable) - mainly, to increase the distance from the air bag release to the head.

- D.

overtime1

I was just looking at the subaru website and there are two different 17" wheel options listed. However, all the models I see around here at the dealers (one in person and multiple via web) have the 16" wheels installed. Are these 17" wheels listed on the website factory or dealer installed?

While I'm at it - what is the difference between the $1300 17" wheel option and the $3000 17" wheel option besides the looks? I actually kind of prefer the $1300 look :-).

OT

paisan

Dealer installed options and don't include tires.

The $3K ones are BBS Forged v. the $1300 ones that are Cast IIRC. The Forged ones are more sturdy and a better choice for rallying/racing/city dwellers.

-mike

overtime1

What do you mean by 'more sturdy'? I'll never treat this car like an offroad rally car and I won't race it but I'll certainly have a blast on some of the windy roads and onramps in the area .

What kind of performance/handling differences would you see between the 16", $1300 17" and the $3k 17" in terms of bang for the buck? Also, you say these are prices without tires...do the dealers have default tires for these different wheels or do you get to pick them out?

Thanks for the info.

OT

cptplt

I have the $1300 wheels which are the JDM turbo Legacy wheels, the 3000 ones are lighter so if you race, it may make a difference. Otherwise you probably won't notice except for the different looks.
The 17in wheels will usually give you a harder ride though a lot of that is dependent on the tires.
They are dealer installed and you don't get to keep the stock wheels if you get them from the dealer when you buy the car.Also you probably won't have a choice on the tires from a dealer. Better to buy them after you have already purchased the car. I use the 16s for winter tires.

WarpDrive

There is really no practical difference between the $3K forged wheels, and the cheaper $1.2K 17" wheel option. So go for the $1.2K ones if you like the look better. The $3K ones are lighter forged wheels and brand name, and they are overpriced. There is no reason to go for the $3K ones unless you absolutely want the bragging rights that you spent that much to get top of the line wheels.

The 17" will ride harder but also make your car sporty. They will put summer high performance tires on your car if you go for this option. You don't get a choice for tires unless you push them to give you one.

What I did instead was buy aftermarket wheels at $1200, and then bought summer tires. Now I have two sets of wheels, one for winter and one for summer. I sold my 16" stock tires, and put winter tires on.

paisan

I'd get the stockers and go aftermarket after you've had em for a bit. Rota makes some decent in-expensive wheels, etc.

-mike

overtime1

I've been poking around autotrader, yahoo, craigslist (a Bay Area thing), and msn used auto selling classifieds and I find it extremely odd that most people (including private sellers) are selling their cars for more than I can get an '03 for. Prices for these used cars are anywhere from $19k to $25k with most around $22k and the average mileage is more than 12000 miles.

I requested a quote through Edmunds to several local dealers and I already have a quote in had for an '03 wagon with 5 miles on it for $20,900 (which is about $1500 under invoice).

It seems awful risky to buy a used 'sportscar' that people love to abuse for $19k (lowest end used price) when for $2k more I can buy a brand new car. Are the early adopters just fooling themselves because they paid much more new and don't realize the deals on the new cars out there? What is going on here? I can buy a new '03 for less than MOST used '02s that are listed out there (both private and dealer).

I would strongly consider an '02 with 10k-12k miles on it at around $17k or $18k. Hrmmmm....quite odd. Any thoughts?

OT

axp696

I've seen a few 02 WRXs sold for $16-18K, I think anyone that's trying to sell for more is kidding themselves. That being said, I would never buy a used WRX. If I didn't know the person, chances are good it was severely beaten, and I did know the person, I could guarantee it had been beaten. ;-) Now is definitely a good time to buy a 03 that's being cleared off a lot (plus, no clutch shudder on the 03 and up models).

locke2c

good advice AXP, but just imagine what a 2003's resale value is going to do once the tone has been set by the 2002 model.

ouch.

-Colin

overtime1

Yeah...$16k makes sense to me as well considering the fact that a LOT of people will abuse this type of car and the deals on new '03s. However, I never see a WRX listed for that price...not even close. The lower priced vehicles I do see you usually say something like "2002 WRX station wagon, manual transmission, 15k miles, great condition, $19k FIRM". We could say the sellers are deluding themselves but in that case its a mass delusion. Not that I don't understand...selling a car you paid $24k for for $16k after 18 months would stick in my craw as well.

What is this 'clutch shudder' you are referring to?

I still haven't told the wife I'm considering this. What I really need to know is if forgiveness really is easier to get than permission... ;-).

OT

dill6

I have an '02 and it doesn't like to get a lot of throttle amd slipping of the clutch to get going from a stop, esp. when cold. I've learned to simply be a little more patient - let the clutch engage smoothly with very little throttle until its fully engaged, then floor it if you want! NO shudder at all. I understand the newer models have some sort of mechanical 'fix' -I don't regard it as a problem, but it may be for some who can't, or don't want to, change their driving habits.

I'm a little concerned that everyone seems to be assuming any used WRX is going to have been 'abused' - I drive hard, sometimes, but don't abuse my car. There's no reason someone buying my car at a couple of years and 30K miles or so wouldn't get a LOT more good use out of it.

redscooby

For OT and Edge ..... I bought an 03 WRX wagon 3 weeks ago for almost $1000 below dealer invoice (no trade-in). Paid $22,700 with a bunch of options (short throw shifter, boost guage, STi shift knob, upgraded speakers & subwoofer, carbon fiber trim, cargo net, alarm). Also, don't foget the low finance on the '03, which probably won't be available on the '04 (or at least not until next year). To get the best deal buy towards the end of the month when the dealer is thinking about monthly/quarterly bonuses.

As for high used '02 prices, maybe they are loaded with options. Many were sold at or near MSRP though, which might be another reason for unrealistic asking prices. I stayed away from used and waited for new at below invoice prices. I plan to keep for a long time, so not concerned about resale value on the 03.

nixomose

I haven't been herein a while, been busy at work. My wrx had its first birthday last week. And I've been noticing lately when I take hard right turns, the RR wheel bounces. I checked it out just now and I see oil all over the place on the strut.
Is this a warantee item?

subearu

Struts are wear items, but since you're just past the 1year birthday of yours, you may be able to get the dealer to cut you some slack. However, you may want to replace both rear struts, since the left one would be worn in a bit compared to the new right one. Perhaps give the Subaru 800 number a call and open a case.

FWIW, I had the rear struts both go on my '00 Outback within 6 months of driving it off the lot. I have a feeling that they were damaged during freight on the car trailers. Both struts were just dripping minute amounts of fluid and it bounced like a Buick. ;-) Subaru covered both struts fully. However, I had to wait a week for the dealer to get in the parts.

-Brian

flamencoracer

I'm looking at getting 7.5" wide wheels and 225/45 tires. What are the down-sides to getting 16" instead of 17" wheels? Is there a clearance issue with brake calipers? I would like to get the shorter height of the 16" versus the 17" wheels. The 16" wheels and tires are cheaper too. Also, do I look for the same 48-50 offset on 16" and 17" wheels?

kevin111

"Is there a clearance issue with brake calipers? "
- If you get aftermarket brake calipers, then possibly, otherwise the regular WRX will be fine.

hight between 16" and 17" are very similar. It depends on the width and height (such as 225/45). Try to keep overall height as close to stock as possible regardless of size of rim. If you vary the height enough compared to the OEM set-up, there are quite a few things that can get out of whack (odometer, spedometer, cruise controll, suspension travel, etc.)

The biggest differences between 16" vs. 17" are looks, ride and handling. The 17"s will look better and handle slightly better (depending on width and tire pressure), while the 16"s will have a better ride, and are cheaper overall.

flamencoracer

Thanks, kevin111, for the caliper info. That helps, since I expect to stay with stock calipers.

I would like to know if (given 7.5" rim width and 225/45 tires) the 16s are worse than 17s in any other way. The 225/45-17 setup is taller than stock, something that I definitely don't want. The WRX is geared way too tall for any real world driving as it is. Since I will be using the same configuration tires, 225/45, on whichever diameter wheel I get, the 17" wheels will not result in shorter, stiffer tires. Will the 16s with a 50 offset clear the fenders and everything else?

Are the 17s just for looks? I have another car for racing. I want to use the WRX for fun street driving and some Solo II events.

kevin111

I just do not know it off the top of my head for the Imprezas.

If someone has it, please post.

For the 225/45/17, there is marginal difference (I think it is just under 1"). If you are worried about that, and do want to go to 17" rims, go with the 215s, which is what WRXs come with overseas.

In terms of 16s vs. 17s. For practicallity reasons, the 17s will give you a little bit stiffer side-wall due to the shorter hight of the side-wall, while the 16s would give you a slightly better ride and are a little less money wise in the long run.
(would probably have to go with a 225/50/16 if you went 16, but might be able to get away with the 225/45/16.)

Is this car a commuting car, a fun car, or both?

If it means anything, there are many people here that have upgraded to 17"s, and I am thinking of doing it in the future when my current tires wear out.

hypov

presents rubbing issues which would require fender rolling. If you're thinking of lowering it, forget about it.

-Dave

kevin111

Maybe the 225s that you have heard of had offsets that were well below factory specs (i.e., well below the 55 mm?).

The reason I suggest this is because Car and Driver successfully was able to use 17x8.0 rims with 235s on their test WRX sedan without any rubbing. Since there is a minimal difference (less than 10mm?) why would the 225s rub?

Some aftermarket rims can be as low as 40 mm or lower.

dsattler

http://wac.addr.com/auto/obs/wheels.html

hypov

Kevin-
on the WRX sedan they will fit. For the wagon however, it lacks the flared fenders of the sedan hence rolling the fenders is required. This coming from people who have or had 225s on their wagons.

-Dave

jimmys2

I went with Prodrive P1's 17x7 (offset 53mm)wrapped with 225/45 Sumitomo's on my '02 wagon. I've had no rubbing at all, even with a heavy load in the back seat. Handling is much improved but ride quality is a little harsher. The overall look of the car is also improved IMO.

kevin111

Did not know about the 48mm offset rubbing. Thanks for the link too. :-)

paisan

225s will fit fine on a wagon given you don't put any aftermarket springs on. Put on a 1" drop and you'll get rubbing with the 225s on a wagon.

-mike

corkfish

Do the 17 inch tires and rims affect acceleration?I would think they add weight to the car.

locke2c

not meaningfully, at least not unless you're talking American Racing or some similarly brick-like wheels.

-Colin