Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations

carnaught

driver100 said:

Mike, at least they found that blood clot and it sounds like you should be OK once that is taken care of. Keep us posted and best wishes for getting out of there real soon.

Mike, finding the clot now most likely has saved you from a much more serious pulmonary embolus. So, that too will be addressed. Sounds like you're receiving good care. Quick action has saved you more profound sequellae. Now, cut this nonsense, and get well soon!

bwia

Brooklyn -- is a must see movie for date night with your spouse. It brought back vivid memories from my youth courting my wife.

I won't spoil it for you except to say that if you like good acting, good dialog and good music you will love Brooklyn. And did I mention that at the end the audience  just sat there soaking in the music as the credits roll?

snakeweasel

driver100 said:

snakeweasel said:

Also you may recall that I was writing a book, well after a few edits and a long agent search (which failed) I finally got it out there (self published). Wish me luck.

Good luck with the book. I worked for a major publishing company for 16 years, and have been in the book business for about 35 years. It is very difficult to get a book to market (in reasonable numbers), so best of luck.

These days it is easy to get it to market as an e-book, there are sites that will do it for you for a small commission of the sales. So my book is listed on most e-book sellers like Barnes and Noble with no upfront costs to me. The difficult thing is to get people to buy the darn thing.

Thanks for the wish of luck, if it sells good then that's great, if not at least I tried.

snakeweasel

verdugo said:

snakeweasel said:

andres3 said:

Not sure about that with GM cars. The odds of having early engine failure in the new Corvette seem to be pretty high, and I'd consider engine failure in the first 50,000 miles a lemon.

How do you figure that engine failures rates are high with Vetts.

Don't feed the trolls snake!

Sorry I'll try not to do it again.

snakeweasel

stever said:

We have company coming in a few days so we bailed on cooking and ate early at Cracker Barrel. On the drive over I spotted two other places open. An iHop and a gym. The gym was almost as packed as the Barrel. More people out there like Arnold and @tyguy than I would have imagined.

(Wonder how many millions of people spell it iHop now?)

Our park district has a gym that we go to regularly, they have been promoting a thanksgiving day morning series of group exercise classes as a preemptive strike against overeating later in the day. I suspect that those classes were packed. I went there yesterday (friday) and the place was empty.

snakeweasel

iluvmysephia1 said:

The front end grows on you. Or should I say me. On some iA front picture angles it is really rocking my automotive world. A Honda Fit or any other Honda just doesn't start my motor up. Never really has. But I've pounded the keys for years on Edmunds and other car sites expounding my view on imports I like or dislike and I'm not feeling like a bottle rocket fight tonight, isell.

Back at ya! $15,470 for a Frost 6-speed stick like this one


2016 Scion iA - Scion's first sedan for sale

I'll say this, that front end looks like what Jonah must have saw just before the big fish swallowed him.

stever

I actually lost a pound bird day by eating out and not having a ton of leftovers around.

A self-published book is on one of The Washington Post’s best-of-the-year lists - that's a first. The barriers to publication have really come down. Some of my wife's relatives had a lot of stuff published "the old way" and since they never sold the e-rights, they were able to self-publish a bunch of them all over again. Tearing the paperbacks apart and scanning them was a lot of "fun". The royalties are a pittance unfortunately.

snakeweasel

bwia said:

Has anyone seen Brooklyn, a period romantic movie about an Irish young woman who emigrated to NYC in (?) It has a 99% rotten tomato rating. I am a sucker for these films with a good story line and historically accurate.

The trailer showed some nice cars of the period that transport you back in time. 

I certainly hope they are not promoting it as historically accurate. If they are I know I will be invited to a showing when it comes out on DVD with a bunch of histrionically minded people to see just how accurate it really is.

My experience is that "Historically accurate" is just Hollywood speak for a little better on historical aspects than most movies.

snakeweasel

abacomike said:

On top of all my health problems, I suffered a heart attack at 4:00 AM this morning.  I am in ICU now.

Within 45 minutes of arriving here by EMT, they had me in the catheter lab and performed a coronary catheterization.  My right coronary artery was 100% blocked.  So they put in a stent.  Most of the pain is gone.  The other arteries are 55% closed which is fine.

I'll update with posts as I improve.

Best of luck, I wish you all the best, I will keep you in my prayers.

snakeweasel

isellhondas said:

Hey, bottle rocket fights were fun until you get one up your sleeve! Ask me how I know!

There is a story there I know.

isellhondas said:

It wasn't my goal to offend anyone over my grill comment. I should have said "In my not so humble opinion that grill is ugly".

Sorry but they have to drastically improve the looks of that large mouth bass face of a grill for it to be qualified as ugly.

isellhondas

We just paid over 400.00 to have a control board replaced in our seven year old Whirpool range. We faced the decision to buy a new one or fix the old one BUT, our kitchen appliance are biscuit (almond) colored and all of the appliances now are either stainless steel or black. We have hated our french door refrig since the day we bought it. We have to stack everything and it's just uder unfriendly. Our microwave and dishwasher are also Whirpool and work just fine.

For less than 2000.00 we could have bought all new stainless near top of the line Samsung appliances so we were really debating. The repair guy came out and let us know that our whirpool range was top of the line and well worth fixing. Of course, what would he say?

He gave us an estimate and without saying the word Samsung we told him we were debating just buying all new stuff and that Best Buy had a great Black Friday sale going on.

His parting words were, " whatever you do, don't buy anything made by Samsung" He said they cause constant trouble after a few years. Who knows? Our 50 inch Samsung television is three years old and nary a problem.

driver100

bwia said:

Brooklyn -- is a must see movie for date night with your spouse. It brought back vivid memories from my youth courting my wife.

I won't spoil it for you except to say that if you like good acting, good dialog and good music you will love Brooklyn. And did I mention that at the end the audience  just sat there soaking in the music as the credits roll?

Thanks for the heads up....we are going to see Brooklyn today....I hope I don't cry. It gets a 96% rating on rottentomatoes. Also, on my list is Trumbo.

venture

tyguy said:

Earlier this week our clothes drier went kaput....again. We've owned the current set of washer and drier for 8 years and in at time the washer broke down twice and now the drier twice. We traced the fault to a control board failure, which was the previous problem, so that equates to three board failures on the same drier. Crazy. An extended warranty covered the first failures but not this time.

The first decision was whether to fix or replace. The board is about $200 and would need to be ordered in with a week lead time. That decision took about 1/1000 of a second. No way I was investing more money into those unreliable units. No way.

Next decision was the replacement set. Normally I'm a research freak and would take days to investigate options. With Thanksgiving upon us and a crazy work schedule, I went about this an entirely weird way. The wife and I stopped by a Home Depot while our daughter was in swim practice and simply picked a set we both liked within 30 minutes of arriving. Totally not our style. And strangely liberating.

The only criteria we set were that they had to be made in the USA, be of a certain size or larger, and be efficient. We wound up with the Maytag Maxima, which were on a decent sale.

We have a Maytag set that we have had for, probably, 27 years. It still looks good and still works fine. Only problem was one time the washer wouldn't fully empty the water after it was done. I called a repair guy and a sock had somehow got behind the drum. He removed the sock and it has continued to work fine.

I have wanted to replace them a few times, but my wife says they work OK, why replace them? I can't argue with that logic.

houdini1

snakeweasel said:

isellhondas said:

Hey, bottle rocket fights were fun until you get one up your sleeve! Ask me how I know!

There is a story there I know.

isellhondas said:

It wasn't my goal to offend anyone over my grill comment. I should have said "In my not so humble opinion that grill is ugly".

Sorry but they have to drastically improve the looks of that large mouth bass face of a grill for it to be qualified as ugly.

Snake, I don't think anyone would consider it self promotion if you gave us the name of the book. I would really like to check it out.

isellhondas

houdini1 said:

snakeweasel said:

isellhondas said:

Hey, bottle rocket fights were fun until you get one up your sleeve! Ask me how I know!

There is a story there I know.

isellhondas said:

It wasn't my goal to offend anyone over my grill comment. I should have said "In my not so humble opinion that grill is ugly".

Sorry but they have to drastically improve the looks of that large mouth bass face of a grill for it to be qualified as ugly.

Snake, I don't think anyone would consider it self promotion if you gave us the name of the book. I would really like to check it out.

Yeah, me too! What is the book about?

henryn

@abacommike best wishes for a speedy recovery. Very glad they caught it in time.

On the subject of appliances, my washing machine broke last year, and I researched new ones. I very quickly arrived at the decision that I would not touch a new “high efficiency” model with a 10 foot pole. Which left very few choices, so I did my research, found a video on you tube, ordered the parts from Amazon, and fixed it myself.

snakeweasel

Yesterday on black Friday my wife made me take her to the mall. I no longer fear hell. 

snakeweasel

houdini1 said:

Hey, bottle rocket fights were fun until you get one up your sleeve! Ask me how I know!

There is a story there I know.

It wasn't my goal to offend anyone over my grill comment. I should have said "In my not so humble opinion that grill is ugly".

Sorry but they have to drastically improve the looks of that large mouth bass face of a grill for it to be qualified as ugly.

Snake, I don't think anyone would consider it self promotion if you gave us the name of the book. I would really like to check itout.


OK if a moderator says it's ok I will, I'm  us a little weary of running afoul of the rules. 

snakeweasel

henryn said:

@abacommike best wishes for a speedy recovery. Very glad they caught it in time. On the subject of appliances, my washing machine broke last year, and I researched new ones. I very quickly arrived at the decision that I would not touch a new “high efficiency” model with a 10 foot pole. Which left very few choices, so I did my research, found a video on you tube, ordered the parts from Amazon, and fixed it myself.

I have had a few appliances go bad and did the same thing, there is an appliance parts place a mile from me that will give advice on repairs. 

nyccarguy

@snakeweasel - the moderators kind of give us free realm as long as we don't discuss "THE BIG P!"  Count me in as someone who wants to read what you wrote.  Plus I'll buy a second copy to send to @abacomike while he recovers!

sda

whatever you do, don't buy anything made by Samsung" He said they cause constant trouble after a few years. Who knows? Our 50 inch Samsung television is three years old and nary a problem.

We bought top of the line Samsung washer and dryer about 7 years ago to replace 13 year old Maytags that never gave the first problem. Our rationale at the time was--they are getting old so they are certain to break, and to save water.. We may have been unlucky, but the new set have been problematic. The washer has been repaired 4 times, for different reasons, and the dryer 3 times. Matter of fact, waiting on parts for the dryer now. My repairman said was trained by Samsung and did their warranty work. He does not own a Samsung nor a front load washer. Yet--CU gives Samsung a better than average repair rating.

henryn

Go on any site that has reviews (Amazon is good), and start reading actual user reviews / comments about "high efficiency" clothes washers. You will not be inspired to buy one, rather the opposite. The typical wash cycle takes over an hour, they tend to leave your clothes tied in knots, they are subject to mold / mildew. One very common "add on" is a fan to dry out the machine to keep mold / mildew from forming.

I don't think my very old fashioned washing machine uses enough electricity / water that I need to be concerned about it. Maybe if I lived in California, where there is NO water left, ....

imidazol97

If someone is mechanical at all, there are sites online that give instructions on how to check and replace parts of some applicances. I have videos along with service manuals from online for my Cabrio washer dryer. The electronic circuit board in the washer is easily checked with diagnostic cycles if you know the codes for starting th cycle and the meaning of any results. If cost reaches a point and I need to replace something, that's why God invented Lowes with next day delivery.

However, the Lowes guy did install the washer wrong. He had the hot and cold hoses reversed. I was getting hot water rinsing. LOL

Mr_Shiftright

Thankfully he didn't install your toilet.

ab348

venture said:

We have a Maytag set that we have had for, probably, 27 years. It still looks good and still works fine. Only problem was one time the washer wouldn't fully empty the water after it was done. I called a repair guy and a sock had somehow got behind the drum. He removed the sock and it has continued to work fine.

I have wanted to replace them a few times, but my wife says they work OK, why replace them? I can't argue with that logic.

The old 1970s-'80s Maytags were indeed built like tanks. The Maytag repairman schtick had some basis in reality. Then new management came in and screwed the company up royally. Acquisitions, debt, cost-cutting, the usual blunders. The Neptune washer line nearly bankrupted them because of all the problems. They were bought by Whirlpool in '06 and they became an entry-level brand. For a time after the purchase they were very troublesome machines. Whirlpool did some unsavory things to the former Maytag employees pensions and benefits. I don't know if todays Maytag products are cheapo Whirlpool machines or if they have their own designs. Not sure what their reputation is like these days.

About 5 years ago my old 1980s Whirlpool washer and dryer gave up the ghost. I ended up choosing a LG front load pair. Very happy so far.

driver100

isellhondas said:

We just paid over 400.00 to have a control board replaced in our seven year old Whirpool range.

I did read that new ranges have problems with control boards because circuit boards and electronics get damaged easily when water gets on them. With controls usually down low, and considering water is always spilling.....this easily leads to problems.

In another article Samsung did have problems with many models and they weren't the fastest to honor their warranty.

Buyer beware.

abacomike

driver100 said:

We just paid over 400.00 to have a control board replaced in our seven year old Whirpool range.

I did read that new ranges have problems with control boards because circuit boards and electronics get damaged easily when water gets on them. With controls usually down low, and considering water is always spilling.....this easily leads to problems. In another article Samsung did have problems with many models and they weren't the fastest to honor their warranty. Buyer beware.

Back in the "days", GE and Frigidaire made the best refrigerators; Maytag and GE and Hopoint made the best electric ranges; Maytag and GE made the best washers and dryers; and GE and KitchenAide made the best dishwashers.

When my parents bought the Condo in 1991, the builder provided all GE appliances.  After 25 years, I just replaced the refrigerator (Whirpool) but the dishwasher, oven/range and washer/dryer are still functioning quite well.

I think I am going to have to replace the washer/dryer (dryer on top of washer in my laundry closet) in the near future.  But I pay $325 a year to a large maintenance company that repairs all my appliances at no charge as well as lighting and plumbing.  

I will probably go with GE again because of how reasonably priced they are and are one of the few manufacturers that build stacked mini-washers and dryers that will fit in my laundry closet.  Just my opinion, of course, from positive experiences.

stever

I've been fighting appliances the last few days. Most dishwashers have "choppers" that are easy to access. Clean them out and your dishwasher works better. Ours is circa '01 and not cleaning too well. Naturally this model Whirlpool has the chopper in with the pump. Not only is the access screw frozen, you have to have a pump centering tool to reinstall it assuming you can break it loose and a new gasket is required. So $40 just to clean it. Pass.

Our friend with the LG French Door frig (the one whose light fixture melted and almost burned her house down, fixed under a recall) has a funky ice maker. It's mostly working but the solenoid that opens the ice chute is bad or hopefully just corroded. Will try to fix that without breaking the bezel. Terrible frig, lousy reviews.

For most of the 90s we had a front loader before they were "popular" and before drought issues were a concern. It worked great. The new toploaders don't have agitators which appeals to me, although we haven't had any torn clothes with the washer that came with this house.

The wet circuit board issue reminds me of the poorly placed cupholders in the older Audi A8s. One little spill of your lemonade and your MMI board would get fried. $$$$.

About the "book" - to avoid complaints from other members about soliciting, my suggestion would be for Snake to add info to his profile in the "More about me" section.

driver100

About the "book" - to avoid complaints from other members about soliciting, my suggestion would be for Snake to add info to his profile in the "More about me" section.

I was just thinking, maybe we should just go to amazon and look at books by the author "Snakeweasel"

Mr_Shiftright

I did a print on demand book last year and I highly recommend it. But yes, you have to put a lot of effort into marketing. If you want to reprint an older book, or convert it to digital format, you don't have to destroy the book. There is a process called non-destructive scanning and it's very reasonable.

abacomike

When I was in the car business, I discovered a significant correlation in the prices consumers paid for their new automobiles and the socio-economic status of the dealership's physical location.  Additionally, prices paid for automobiles in auto malls of 5-10 dealership brands were more flexible in their pricing than those in stand-alone locations.  Of course, I found the usual exceptions to this set of hypotheses, but in general, the two mentioned above definitely impacted the final prices paid for new automobiles and trucks and SUV's.

Let me explain.  Dealerships located in the middle to low range socio-economic areas tended to make higher "back-end" profits in financing and insurance and maintenance warranties than those located in upper middle and high end socio-economic areas.  Those same dealerships made less front-end profits (actual selling price of vehicle).  One must remember that back-end profits can actually outperform front end profits due to lower spreads of invoice to MSRP percentages.  In higher socio-economic areas, front end profits are much higher than back-end profits. Less profit in financing due to consumers with 750+ credit scores.

As for large auto malls, many shoppers have an opportunity to shop for their new cars sort of like one-stop shopping.  Competition between and among the brands is fierce in these malls.  An example would be Chevy, Ford, Dodge-Chrysler, Toyota, Hyundai, Cadillac, Lincoln, Infinii, Lexus, BMW and Mercedes.  In LA, there are many malls like that as there are in Jersey, Long Island and other suburban areas throughout the country.  Better pricing is usually found on vehicles purchased in a mall locale like I mentioned above.

The above data became available to me through the conglamorate that owned the dealership I managed.  We would receive monthly printouts of each dealer's breakdown of profits from Finance/Insurance, Vehicle sales profits, Service and Parts.  Those dealerships in auto malls tended to sell more units, but at lower profit margins.  Those dealerships in higher sociology-economic areas had higher profit margins in the sale end and lower profit margins in the back-end.  The reverse was true in lower socio-economic areas.

This information can be very helpful to new car buyers:

If you want better pricing on a new vehicle and you have high credit scores, where might you concentrate your dealership search?

If you have marginal credit, where would you concentrate your dealership search?

Remember, there are exceptions to the above (repeat customers get preferential pricing front and back-end no matter where they buy their cars).

Try it out the next time you are pricing a new car.  You might be surprised.

verdugo

henryn said:

Go on any site that has reviews (Amazon is good), and start reading actual user reviews / comments about "high efficiency" clothes washers. You will not be inspired to buy one, rather the opposite. The typical wash cycle takes over an hour, they tend to leave your clothes tied in knots, they are subject to mold / mildew. One very common "add on" is a fan to dry out the machine to keep mold / mildew from forming.

I don't think my very old fashioned washing machine uses enough electricity / water that I need to be concerned about it. Maybe if I lived in California, where there is NO water left, ....

I've had high efficiency washers for years. I think the first one I got was back in 2000,

I don't have any complaints. In fact, I love them. And now with the drought here, I'm glad we have one.

driver100

Mr_Shiftright said:

I did a print on demand book last year and I highly recommend it. But yes, you have to put a lot of effort into marketing. If you want to reprint an older book, or convert it to digital format, you don't have to destroy the book. There is a process called non-destructive scanning and it's very reasonable.

Self published E Books have opened the door to make it possible for anyone to "publish" a book, at least electronic book. Just before that there was vanity publishing. You would pay a company a few $1000s to print a book for you, and they would do minimal marketing.

To make a book take off you would have to sell it somehow, get it into a chain store, or a number of bookstores to show a record of sales, or try to get some publicity on radio, TV or in the newspaper.

A few E-books have actually caught on and have become million sellers, and the author has been picked up by a major publishing house.

Becoming an author who can live off their publishing has about the same odds as becoming a famous pop singer. Not great but if you have an idea or an idea for book you might as well go for it....you never know.

Mr_Shiftright

I make about $250 a month from it now. Some months it hit $400. More like a local garage band than a rock star. But still, I don't have to do anything. It just gets deposited to my account every month. I think in the past 18 months, I've recouped my investment maybe 4-5 times over. I did put a lot of juice into "free" marketing however. It pays to do that.

The trick is to have half a dozen books out there on Amazon.

28firefighter

abacomike said:

When I was in the car business, I discovered a significant correlation in the prices consumers paid for their new automobiles and the socio-economic status of the dealership's physical location.  Additionally, prices paid for automobiles in auto malls of 5-10 dealership brands were more flexible in their pricing than those in stand-alone locations.  Of course, I found the usual exceptions to this set of hypotheses, but in general, the two mentioned above definitely impacted the final prices paid for new automobiles and trucks and SUV's.

Let me explain.  Dealerships located in the middle to low range socio-economic areas tended to make higher "back-end" profits in financing and insurance and maintenance warranties than those located in upper middle and high end socio-economic areas.  Those same dealerships made less front-end profits (actual selling price of vehicle).  One must remember that back-end profits can actually outperform front end profits due to lower spreads of invoice to MSRP percentages.  In higher socio-economic areas, front end profits are much higher than back-end profits. Less profit in financing due to consumers with 750+ credit scores.

As for large auto malls, many shoppers have an opportunity to shop for their new cars sort of like one-stop shopping.  Competition between and among the brands is fierce in these malls.  An example would be Chevy, Ford, Dodge-Chrysler, Toyota, Hyundai, Cadillac, Lincoln, Infinii, Lexus, BMW and Mercedes.  In LA, there are many malls like that as there are in Jersey, Long Island and other suburban areas throughout the country.  Better pricing is usually found on vehicles purchased in a mall locale like I mentioned above.

The above data became available to me through the conglamorate that owned the dealership I managed.  We would receive monthly printouts of each dealer's breakdown of profits from Finance/Insurance, Vehicle sales profits, Service and Parts.  Those dealerships in auto malls tended to sell more units, but at lower profit margins.  Those dealerships in higher sociology-economic areas had higher profit margins in the sale end and lower profit margins in the back-end.  The reverse was true in lower socio-economic areas.

This information can be very helpful to new car buyers:

If you want better pricing on a new vehicle and you have high credit scores, where might you concentrate your dealership search?

If you have marginal credit, where would you concentrate your dealership search?

Remember, there are exceptions to the above (repeat customers get preferential pricing front and back-end no matter where they buy their cars).

Try it out the next time you are pricing a new car.  You might be surprised.

All of this is super intuitive and makes complete sense, I just never thought about it until now. And, with one exception, my last three car purchases fit this theory spot on. 

abacomike

@28firefighter said:

"All of this is super intuitive and makes complete sense, I just never thought about it until now. And, with one exception, my last three car purchases fit this theory spot on."

Yes, firefighter, when the data is carefully dissected and applied properly to a set of hypotheses, it begins to make sense in terms of selecting a set of strategies one can use in buying their next new car.

I had access to data reporting sales at 72 dealerships owned by this one corporation.  Almost without exception, location of the dealership and the sociology-economic status of the average consumer the dealership sold cars to was a good predictor of the pricing of new cars.  Those dealerships in the upper socio-economic areas would be be where a person might shop for better financing rate flexibility since those dealerships had lower profitability in the back-end.

In other words, once a buyer determines which is most important to them when buying a new car (financing, front-end pricing of the vehicle or competitive shopping easier such as an auto mall), a strategy could be developed as to where to shop.

tjc78

@abacomike, wow what an adventure.  Best wishes to get home soon and enjoy that new machine!!

Three or four years ago, my washer went. I knew it was the transmission and wasn't fixing it. It was a five year old Kenmore (Whirlpool).  This happened literally a week before xmas.  My wife didn't care what we got so I called a local mom and pop appliance store and phone ordered a high efficiency Maytag top loader from my desk at work.  It was delivered the next morning.  I had no
time to be picky. 

The HE machines need to have the doors left open or they will start to stink.  I clean mine whenever the light tells me to with those Afresh tablets.  It seems to do the trick.  

imidazol97

My HE Whirlpool Cabrio does not twist the clothes into knots. It's the top loader with a glass lid as an option now--there's an equivalent Maytag model. If the owner does fairly large loads that fill with water higher and uses bleach in those loads or uses the oxygen boosters, sodium carbonate and sodium percarbonate by SUN at Walmart, e.g., the inside of the tub is kept nice and clean. If small loads, like most of mine, are done, then a cleaning once a month with a cup of bleach or a large dose of the oxygen cleaner works.

The Afresh tablets are the Na Percarbonate/carbonate cleaners with some detergent and scent mixed in. Oxyclean is a name brand for the oxygen cleaner, but I use the SUN brand at 1/5 the cost or less. Is throw in a squirt of Dawn detergent when cleaning cycle starts with the bleach and turn off the cycle at about 1/2 hour when it empties the tub: I skip the rinse. Just let 'er dry.

The cleaning cycle is lots of agitation while filling to the top of the tub to rinse the soap residue from the stainless tub and the plastic tub in which it sits. Then a drain and refill to rinse.

A little history on the Neptune front loaders..., users who used the bleach or oxygen cleaners had few problems with the mold build up on the door seals. A friend of ours had bought one early on. They got rid of it if I recall. I don't know if they bought another front loader or a top loader. I know that the Neptune was really great at cleaning greasy diesel mechanic's clothes with very little water.

driver100

When I was in the car business, I discovered a significant correlation in the prices consumers paid for their new automobiles and the socio-economic status of the dealership's physical location.

The dealer in the highest income area in Canada wanted full MSRP for my 2012 bmw 535, + build in $2000 because it was not out yet and they assumed the price would go up that amount (which it didn't).

The dealer 20 minutes away which is in a new immigrant area where people aren't used to paying full MSRP for anything was more generous with discounts. I saved about $6000!

Now, this had nothing to do with financing....cars were bought for cash (actually line of credit) as far as the dealer was concerned.

abacomike

driver100 said:

abacomike @ When I was in the car business, I discovered a significant correlation in the prices consumers paid for their new automobiles and the socio-economic status of the dealership's physical location.

The dealer in the highest income area in Canada wanted full MSRP for my 2012 bmw 535, + build in $2000 because it was not out yet and they assumed the price would go up that amount (which it didn't). The dealer 20 minutes away which is in a new immigrant area where people aren't used to paying full MSRP for anything was more generous with discounts. I saved about $6000! Now, this had nothing to do with financing....cars were bought for cash (actually line of credit) as far as the dealer was concerned.

So it would seem you agree with my strategy.  If no financing is at issue, the dealer in the moderate to lower socio-economic area is where you would probably get your best "cash" deal, right?  

abacomike

The dealership I bought my CLS 400 at is in a moderate socio-economic area.  I had expected to pay cash - and got the best cash deal.  But since I had sources for a 60 month loan at 1.75% on $19,000, they matched that rate and term.  It's all about researching and strategy implementation.

carnaught

Mike...sidebar.....how are you doing, feeling today?

abacomike

Just got clearance from my cardiologist to be discharged after an echocardiogram is done sometime today to doublecheck everything.

Now I am waiting to be seen by an internist and hematologist for my blood clot.  They put me on several new meds which are supposed to control that DVT.  So I am hoping to be able to go home perhaps tomorrow.  

Cardiologist said I was lucky he was at the hospital when I came in by ambulance so they could perform the emergency catheterization and placement of the stent to open up the right coronary artery before more serious damage could be done by lack of blood supply.

Let me say that I wouldn't wish this experience on anyone except Adolph Hitler if he was still around,  

abacomike

carnaught said:

Mike...sidebar.....how are you doing, feeling today?

Better, thanks for asking.  I just feel a bit stressed out and tired since I can't sleep.  That will change when I get back to my home environs.  Just unsure about what my future is going to be.  Frustrating because of all these added medical problems loaded on top of what I am going through with the hep C drugs.

dino001

abacomike said:

When I was in the car business, I discovered a significant correlation in the prices consumers paid for their new automobiles and the socio-economic status of the dealership's physical location.  Additionally, prices paid for automobiles in auto malls of 5-10 dealership brands were more flexible in their pricing than those in stand-alone locations.  Of course, I found the usual exceptions to this set of hypotheses, but in general, the two mentioned above definitely impacted the final prices paid for new automobiles and trucks and SUV's.

Let me explain.  Dealerships located in the middle to low range socio-economic areas tended to make higher "back-end" profits in financing and insurance and maintenance warranties than those located in upper middle and high end socio-economic areas.  Those same dealerships made less front-end profits (actual selling price of vehicle).  One must remember that back-end profits can actually outperform front end profits due to lower spreads of invoice to MSRP percentages.  In higher socio-economic areas, front end profits are much higher than back-end profits. Less profit in financing due to consumers with 750+ credit scores.

As for large auto malls, many shoppers have an opportunity to shop for their new cars sort of like one-stop shopping.  Competition between and among the brands is fierce in these malls.  An example would be Chevy, Ford, Dodge-Chrysler, Toyota, Hyundai, Cadillac, Lincoln, Infinii, Lexus, BMW and Mercedes.  In LA, there are many malls like that as there are in Jersey, Long Island and other suburban areas throughout the country.  Better pricing is usually found on vehicles purchased in a mall locale like I mentioned above.

The above data became available to me through the conglamorate that owned the dealership I managed.  We would receive monthly printouts of each dealer's breakdown of profits from Finance/Insurance, Vehicle sales profits, Service and Parts.  Those dealerships in auto malls tended to sell more units, but at lower profit margins.  Those dealerships in higher sociology-economic areas had higher profit margins in the sale end and lower profit margins in the back-end.  The reverse was true in lower socio-economic areas.

This information can be very helpful to new car buyers:

If you want better pricing on a new vehicle and you have high credit scores, where might you concentrate your dealership search?

If you have marginal credit, where would you concentrate your dealership search?

Remember, there are exceptions to the above (repeat customers get preferential pricing front and back-end no matter where they buy their cars).

Try it out the next time you are pricing a new car.  You might be surprised.

It makes perfect sense, Mike. One could add there are also general differences between low end and uoscale brands, as well. I have owned two Subarus and a BMW in last twelve years and the purchasing experiences were generally positive, but not necessarily lowest price, always treating me like a partner in business. Then an occasional visit at a popular brand store (most those are parts of large multibrand chains) and I feel like I need a long hot shower. Doesn't matter whether it's Kia, Ford, or Toyota. Just awful. The worst part, they never listen, constantly ask idiotic questions, trying to frame it into "how much per month", even when I tell them that's my last concern. Couple of times I let them to show me first number, just for the hell of it and it always ended with a disaster. No price, some stupid number per month, when asked what is the interest, "I don't know", etc. They have absolutely no idea how to deal with an informed customer with decent means. It all end with me leaving shaking my head about American public. Those underhanded "strategies" and "per month" approach must obviously work, given how common they are, to the point they often are unable to change it even if it hits them in the face.

abacomike

@dino001

Well stated, Dino.  The car salesmen think they've got the customer all figured out by what the customer drove to the dealership and the brand of wristwatch the customer was wearing!  

stever

Great info - what other tricks are you hiding up your sleeve @abacomike?

No longer will I get frustrated when the first words out of the salesperson's mouth is "what payment are you looking at".

Before the net, I borrowed a friend's Bottom Line Personal all the time for such insider tidbits. Stuff like this, which wasn't so easy to find when it wasn't piped into your house 24/7.

I met a "good" salesguy in the 70s who sold cars in Houston. The dealership was situated where you could see cars coming a mile away. He'd hang around out front around 5 pm and paid attention to who was driving up to pick up their car from service. He'd checked the service files that morning to see who was in for an oil change or whatever.

When he'd recognize a customer of his driving toward the dealer, he'd pop out his hanky and start polishing a spot on the hood of the customer's car that he had conveniently driven to the front of the store.

Guy claimed he was swamped in repeat business.

(Time never passes so slowly from when your doc has discharged you until the paperwork makes it way through channels and the hospital actually lets you go).

henryn

It’s interesting to hear other’s experiences with the high efficiency clothes washers. I’ve never owned one, and off the top of my head don’t know anyone IRL who does. But I am the type to do quite a bit of research, and reading online consumer reviews is enough to make anyone run away. Probably another one of those cases where the people who are happy with the product have nothing to say, and those who are unhappy are very verbal about it.

@abacomike, here’s hoping you can get home soon.

@qbrozen, congrats on the punch. Lots of luck with that, you are a braver man than I. (smile)

driver100

So it would seem you agree with my strategy.  If no financing is at issue, the dealer in the moderate to lower socio-economic area is where you would probably get your best "cash" deal, right?

 

Definitely agree.

The dealer in the fancy shmancy area knows people don't want to drive a few more miles to save a few $1000s. Also, a lot of these cars are driven by their wives, and heaven forbid their wife may have to drive for an extra 20 minutes for service. The fancy area dealer knows this. They know they will make more profit with this business plan.

Our former Audi dealer tried to get full MSRP for the A4 once. When I told him bmw was giving me 4% off they matched it immediately. He explained, we are in an area with mostly business people, they are pretty sophisticated buyers, so we don't fool around with them. bmw could get full msrp, Audi knew they couldn't.

snakeweasel

Mr_Shiftright said:

Thankfully he didn't install your toilet.

A toilet wouldn't be nearly as bad as a bidet.