BMW 5-Series Maintenance and Repair

jas

I thought the recall was for ECM's that would quit (engine would stop for no apparent reason) which was probably some bad component in the ECM. Are you sure that they are really addressing the Tranny Problem?

If every car demonstrates the poor shifting, it could be a software issue. If it is not on all cars, I would assume you have a different problem, like the tranny itself.

I would see if you can drive another car from the dealer and see how it acts.

jas

I am thinking of running AMSOIL in my 545. The specs are better than Castrol or Mobil 1. Has anybody had any experience with AMSOIL? Any additional seepage over the others?

div2

I've compared the product data sheets for the Amsoil European 5W-40 as well as the Mobil 1 0W-40, and I fail to see any meaningful difference between the two. The only place where Amsoil decisively beats Mobil 1 is in the profit margin of the dealer. $2.30 extra per quart is a lot to pay to for a 3C degree lower pour point.

jas

div2 - Thanks for the feedback.

In comparing the 5W-30, the Flash point and Pour points are relatively equal. The AMSOIL has a much higher Viscosity Index (182 vs. 165) - Is this a big deal or are we already so much higher than what is required?

I can get the AMSOIL for approx. the same cost as the Mobil 1, although a little more of a hassle (ordering it as a wholesaler). At that point, I am wondering if it is worth it. Am I buying myself any better protection that is going to make any difference over 150k - 200k miles? Is there any negatives of AMSOIL beside the cost?

div2

In my opinion, Amsoil products are of very high quality; I just think that they are expensive compared to their Mobil 1 equivalents. As for engine longevity, my wife's 528iA now has 107000 miles on the clock and the engine consumes no oil between @9000 mile changes. With the exception of a couple of experiments with BMW 5W-30 and Rotella Synthetic 5W-40, I have used only Mobil 1 15W-50 or(more recently)0W-40 since I bought the car as a CPO unit with 46000 miles in 2001. Would Amsoil European have performed better? Who knows? I suppose that it all comes down to your comfort level; either brand is excellent, so use the product that makes YOU feel better.

jas

Thanks for the feedback/info.

shoes7000

Dear Davijon, in response to your question, most luxury german cars will cost on average more than any other car you will find. Aside from Lexus, bmw and mercedes are very expensive to keep up. For instance, they get 110 bucs/hr. Tune ups run in the area of 600-900 dollars depending on how much you need done. I have a 99 540i sport and here are some examples. I needed a battery. 255.00. catalytic converters, though covered by warrantee until 8/80k will run you 1200.00 each side.
Cup holders( this model ALWAYS ALWAYS break): 208.00
Belts: 250.00 Digital dash(they all loose pixels by yr 2: 740.00.
  Though I love every time I drive my car, I cringe when I have to roll into the dealership for whatever reason.
Hope this helps.
I would definitely LEASE a BMW, Mercedes and Audi.
Mark

cassidym

Don't disagree with what you say but here is another way to look at it. In 1986, I bought a new 325eS and have driven it ever since. Yes, the maintenance costs were high but the car has run reliably for the past 18 and a half years. IOW, I was getting very good quality maintenance for my money and, as a result, I never had a break down or serious problems. I've learned in the past that, if you skimp on maintenance, you pay more in the end. And, the money I put into maintenance was a lot less than what I would have had to pay for a new car.

I guess the moral of the story is that if you can afford a BMW you ought to be able to afford the maintenance. If you can't then you're shopping in the wrong market.

div2

Yep, if you have to take your BMW to the dealer for each and every problem it WILL cost a lot of money. That said, a BMW is not that expensive to run if you have use a good independent BMW tech and are willing to DIY the simple stuff. Some examples:
 
Inspection I: $150 at my local indie BMW tech

Inspection II: $450 ditto

Brake Fluid Flush: $80 at dealer with CCA discount

Coolant Flush: ditto

Battery: Interstate MTP-93 @$110 DIY install-10 minutes

Cupholders:@$70 for front and rear set-5 minute DIY job

Drive Belts:@$78 for both(less with CCA Discount)
@1 hour labor, total cost $170 or less

Lost Pixels on MID/cluster-A little research will find that BMW NA often picks up the cost of the failed MID unit leaving the owner resposible for labor time of @2 hours

One question; At the prices you've quoted, does the dealer send you flowers the next day?

jas

I agree with your approach.

My buddy found that taking his 540i to an independent versus the dealer saved him about $200 for the same service. You really have to pin the dealer (all dealers) down on what they do (ask direct questions).

My old comuter Saturn I had was a $400 service every 30k miles and that was as simple of a car as any. But they will try to replace everything. Once they told me I had a defective plug wire - cut (which I know was not). After further questioning it turns out it was a minor mar in the wire.

However, performance cars (any-type) will always be more expensive to maintain.

div2

"However, performance cars (any-type) will always be more expensive to maintain."
I agree 100%. If you want Camry operating costs you need to drive a Camry I just consider the added expense the price of admission for driving a world class sports sedan. And, since I tend to buy 2-3 year old vehicles and keep them for 5-10 years, my overall running costs are probably less than the hapless individuals who buy a "sensible" new Honda or Toyota every 3-4 years. Depreciation CAN be your friend...:)

riez

... is how little is done at Sch. 1 and 2. BMW dealer charges a fortune for what are mostly mere inspections. In first 60K, about all that is required to be done are 4 oil and filter changes, brake fluid change every two years, a coolant change, and a ton of inspections.

rich545

I know this topic was already covered, but I just wanted to add a follow-up. Someone had mentioned that "wheel wax" helped with the brake dust problem so I just tried using regular car wax on my wheels to see if that helped too. It definitely did. I just used Turtle Wax and I couldn't belive the difference it made. Worth a try for anyone thinking about getting new brakes to deal with the problem.

shoes7000

What I guess I was trying to say was that I enjoy driving my car but I don't think car costing over 60k should need repairs on parts not having anything to do with the performance. Luckily, I have found a guy that repairs BMWs for a much better rate.
 I understand that this is a "world class sports sedan" but the QC is lacking in some areas. Yes I can afford the repairs but I will lease in the future and spend that money on something else.

jas

I hear you. If you buy a old car, you expect that it will nickle and dime you to death - you pay the big bucks and don't expect to have a problem for years. Hopefully the independent BMW guy will make these things a little less painful.

BMW puts their efforts into engines, transmissions (except on the 545 auto's according to some chat) and suspensions while lacking on some of the basics. That was one of the factors I was considering when comparing the Lexus which gets significantly better marks for reliability, but I wanted the "Ultimate Driving Machine". I hope it does not come back to bite me or my pocket book (or lack there of now).

Maybe that is why BMW has done the 4 years/50k miles full service and repairs.

george94

there have been so many posts about this subject, but come on..why do you care if you have a little wheel dust on your wheels? Even people whose opinions I value greatly went to the after market products. Shipo, where are you? IMHO, it is perfectly fine to have the wheel dust. After all folks, you drive high performance vehicles and not show cases. I do wash my car and wheels regularly but I drive my bimmer for different reasons than whether the wheels are shiny or not.
.g

shipo

I'm here. ;-) Back in 1995 I went back to German cars after a 13 year hiatus, the car was a 1995 VR6 Passat GLX with a 5-Speed. The German mandated high graphite brake pads were a pain, but I stuck with them. Then for the 1999 model year, VW in their infinite wisdom canceled the three pedal version of the (then) newish Passat GLX and forced me to get a 1999 328i. Yeah, I know, a lousy consolation prize but my therapist helped me work through it. ;-) Anyway, I kept that car for about three and a half years and once again, dealt with the graphite dust on my wheels. :-/

That brings me to my three pedal 2002 530i, and by now I was starting to really have an issue with the black dust on my beautiful Type 42 wheels. Two years later I'd had enough. I switched to the Axxis/PBR Original Deluxe pads and what a difference. There seems to be zero difference in brake feel and performance, however, I swear that in the four months since I mounted them they have generated less dust that two days of driving on the OEM pads. Yes, two days! I so wish I had gone the Axxis route back in 1995 with my old Passat. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

rich545

I guess if it was a "a little wheel dust" I wouldn't care, but it's a whole lot of brake dust. If I went two weeks without cleaning the wheels I'd literally have black front wheels (and nearly black back wheels). Believe me, I know there are bigger problems to have and it sounds ridiculous to complain about, but I just hate having an otherwise completely clean car with dirty wheels. Shipo-do you think those pads would be okay on the new E60 as well. I'm sure they would be, but just want to make sure. The brakes are so good right now I'd hate to screw them up. Are there any figures out there on the performance of those pads in terms of stopping distance?

shipo

Yes, I certainly think that the Axxis/PBR pads will be wonderful on your E60. That said, I don't think that anybody has released an aftermarket pad for the E60, yet. As for performance, check out the following web sites (you only need to check one, they are basically the same), they have quite a bit of information on them regarding their pad offerings.

http://www.axxisbrakes.com
http://www.pbrbrakes.com

From my perspective, I will never again keep the high graphite German OEM pads on my car beyond the time it takes to get it home and mount the new ones (assuming that they are available).

Best Regards,
Shipo

glaker

Yesterday I brought my '04 530 into the local dealer for free maintenance (oil change and inspection) as the car is now one year old. Even though it had 12,999 miles and only three out of the five boxes on the warning light bar had disappeared, the manual says have the old changed and inspection done at least once a year. The dealer agreed that was what I was supposed to do. This morning when I started the car and looked at the dash, I noticed the warning light bar had not been re-set. Three boxes were gone and the car was still working on the fourth box. I called the dealer, assuming they forgot to reset the system, and the service adviser said they don't reset it based on time; instead, when the last two bars are gone I should bring the car in for another free service. It sounded kind of stupid to me - going 13K before the first oil change and then getting another one around 16K or so (when the last light goes out) which is only another few thousand miles. Has anyone else experienced the same thing or is my service advisor nuts?

carnaught

Your service advisor is nuts.

warthog

I bought my E39 530 in March 2003. One year later I had about 10k miles but got the free oil change with 3 bars. When 5 bars showed up recently (13k miles) I got it again. This is a dealer in Charlotte, NC.

shipo

There is more to the service interval than just an oil change. Accordingly, just the oil is changed at the one year mark, and then the rest of the service (and another oil change) is performed when the service indicator says it's time. Not so stupid afterall. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

div2

If you reset the SI lights before the Oil Service/Inspection lights illuminate it is possible that you will screw up the logic sequence. That is, the next time the SI may indicate an Oil Service when an Inspection is required or vice versa.
Bottom Line:NEVER reset the SI lights until an Oil Service or Inspection is called for.

george94

I had about 11K on my car when I reached the one year ownership mark. The dealer changed oil and did not reset the light. I have to go back for regular inspection when all service bars are gone. Probably october - november. My car has 12.5K now.

george94

Shipo, just checked my front wheels and they look "pretty" clean. I washed them about 2 months ago and so far I can't see anything which would resemble the "need" for washing. I am glad you enjoy you axxis pads.
I use brakes a lot but also use my manual transmission to slow down. Do you use engine to slow down or just brakes?

shipo

I figure that brakes are WAY cheaper to replace that clutches, as such, I use the brakes almost exclusively to slow the car. In addition, I do not find that my engine has all that much ability to slow the car down unless I downshift until the engine is at least over 4K rpms, and that just makes a lot of noise.

The flip side is that the brake pads that came with my car would generate so much dust that after a single day in traffic, they would have a very noticeable layer of dust on them, and after a week, they would be black. Now with the new pads, I cannot see any dust at all, even after several thousand miles. Given that there has been a zero change in brake feel and stopping power, I feel that there is absolutely no down side to the swap of the pads except for an hour of my time to perform the swap and the ~$62 that it cost me for the new pads.

Best Regards,
Shipo

george94

I am now wondering whether the brake pads changed from 2002 to 2003. It is really not bad on my car. I had Honda Accord before and the brake dust was about the same. Their wheels were much easier to clean, I must admit.

rich545

I don't know about the pads in 2003 models, but I have a 2004 545 and the dust is really bad. One thing I find interesting is that a friend of mine has the SL55 AMG and it has ventilated rotors (I think that's what they're called); basically little holes in the rotors which seem to help with the brake dust. I know it seems like such a trivial thing to complain about, but it really does make an otherwise clean car look bad. But, as I said, waxing the wheels seems to help quite a bit so I'm okay with that for now.

jas

Axxis pads for the E60 will not be available until the early part of 2005 (for the 545). I would assume the same would be true for all of the E60's.

I talked to Stop Tech and they provided me alot of good info on the Axxis pads. They said there would be a little difference in feel, since the OEM pads grab so quickly, but would be better for overall braking (hard to believe you could improve on overall braking on a BMW). Most people that have switched have told me they notice no difference in the feel (see previous discussions). The dust is supposed to be non existent. Right now I am wiping my rims every 200 miles and can't wait until they are available.

A more aggressive pad that does not dust up is the HAWK HPS. They are quite after they bed-in, but you have to drive them harder to keep them quite. My neighbor put them on his M3 with cross drilled rotors and SS braided brake lines - he says the improvement is unbelievable.

80% of my driving is freeway, so I am going for the Axxis, but call Stop Tech and they can give you a very thorough explanation Also email Axxis for a timing on the pads. The more requests they get, the faster they may make them available.

Whats wrong with brake dust? Nothing, except for making a work of art with great rims look cheap.

jas

cross-drilled rotors - their main purpose is for cooling. Dust is pretty much a direct function of the pads used.

Also, BMW puts much bigger brakes on the sport package cars and then again on the 545's. Hard to say why george94 does not have a problem - I guess he is the lucky one.

Right now my 545 is mainly being driven on the freeway and since I am still breaking it in, I am extremely light on the brakes and the dust is noticeable in 200 miles.

I will try your waxing suggestion and when the Axxis are available, they are going on! I will let you know when I find them available.

FYI: the reflectors in the bumpers (replace those black plates) are available (special order from the dealer) and they look great!

rich545

Thanks for all of the info. I was wondering when reflectors would be available for the rear. The black plates do look odd; like they forgot to put reflectors on. I find that waxing the wheels at least doubles the time that it takes for dust to build up if not triple it. I'll get in touch with Axxis. Have fun with the break in period. Needless to say, the fun really begins after it with the 545!

jas

My dealer did not know anything about the reflectors, but after I insisted that he inquire, he came back with - "oh yeah, you can get them". It definitely completes the package.

I will try the waxing this week.

Right now I am thoroughly enjoying my ride to the office, driving like an old lady that does not know how to keep a constant speed, but it is taking every ounce of restraint to keep it easy. Looking forward to experiencing the real Ultimate Driving Machine.

x021627

yes, just the left one. Didn't leave any marks so it was probably a professional or is it just that easy. Can I replace it myself?

BLK

george94

I just turned 12K on my MY 03 E39. Last Saturday the "service engine soon" light went on. It stayed on for about 5 minutes and the engine was running rough. The light disappeared later on. Yesterday, Sunday, it stayed on the whole day and the engine was running rough again. At stop light you could feel the vibrations. Then, the vibration went away, but the light was still on. This am, you guessed it, it was off. I am bringing it in tomorrow to have it checked. Any ideas?

rich545

I'm no expert on this, but I had a similar problem with my 330xi which ended up being the ignition coils. They had to replace all six of them. It was also an '03, and I think there was a known defect with the ignition coils for it. Not sure if the '03 E39 has had similar problems with them though.

karmikan

The error code(s) will be stored in your on-board computer. Make sure that your stealer scans for them. That should give a pointer to the problem.

george94

the info is downloaded from their OBC module. It showed a misfire on cylinder #2 which followed by a short spark duration. Diagnostic - bad ignition coil to cylinder #2, they replaced all 6 of them with Bosch. Amazing, I was riding around on 5 cylinders. No wonder the car was running rough. Rich545, I wonder whether the original coils were manufactured by the same supplier Audi/VW uses.

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ajj

I've looked through a lot of the messages and one recurring question involves tires. I had a 2000 540 6 speed. I went through 3 sets of rear tires in 24K (I drove it like it should). For my money the best tire (wet or dry) was the Bridgestone SO3 Pole Position. They had better tread life than the Michelin Pilot Sports and much better wet traction. I just bought a 03 540A and can't wait until the Dunlops wear out so I can put Pole Positions on this one (I"ll be doing my best to speed this up :-).

P.S. If you spent 40K-60K on a car you shouldn't whine about tires. If you didn't take this into account before you bought your vehicle then shame on you.

designman

"I had a 2000 540 6 speed. I went through 3 sets of rear tires in 24K (I drove it like it should)"

What made you go automatic? There's a Porsche somewhere with your name on it. What are you waiting for?

jas

I have an E60 with the Black Shadow Line Trim. The dealer said this is a painted surface so wax could be used.

I am not sure if he was correct with it being a painted surface or if it is a molded plastic finish. If it is a molded plastic finish, I would think wax would whiten and would be more inclined to use a good plastic preservative. Although with a plastic protectant, finger prints on the pillar between the two doors could be a problem (I know, use the door handles).

I have emailed BMW for a recommendation, but I was wondering if anybody has any first hand recommendations/experience.

bigpig426

The first oil change done on your car was strictly because the oil had gone for more than one year without change. Then when the green bars were completely gone, BMW did a one-year oil service, which, according to my dealer in CA, is more than just an oil change.

The mileage interval between the two services on my '03 525 was even worse than yours as it was only around 1.5K.

bran950

I own a 2003 530I with 13000 miles I had the exact same problem twice. After my car sat for three days the battery was completely dead. the dealer was no help. Someone mentioned a battery switch. i have not been able to find it. Please help

vxj

I have 2004 530i with 7000 miles. Shortly after delivery of the car I noticed rattle coming from behind rear seat on drivers side. It probably comes from under the panel behind rear seat. This is pronounced during cooler outside temperature and during bumpy ride. Anyone with similar problem and solution?.

atomicpunk

I had to replace my rear tires by 11,500 miles. The inner edges of both tires were completely worn. The dealer says its aggressive driving. I honestly don't think of myself as an aggressive driver. Could it be anything else?

shipo

My bet is that you have not been aggressive enough. ;-) After following many BMWs down the road and looking at how the rear suspension holds the tires oriented to the road on a slight angle (to aid handling), it is clear to me that they will wear the inner edge of the tread area first with prolonged "straight ahead" driving. I live in an area with LOTS of curvy roads (I've been known to take a curve or two at twice the recommended speed, shhhh!), and I have fairly even wear on my rear tires.

Best Regards,
Shipo

div2

I agree with Shipo; BMW rear suspensions have a healthy dose of negative camber built into their design. Thus, the tires will tend to remain perpendicular to the road surface as the suspension travel and body roll increases. My driving habits mirror those of Shipo(one of my favorite 75 mph off-ramps has a 25 mph "advisory speed")so my tires tend to wear evenly across the tread as well.

jas

I have a hard time buying that theory - although hard cornering is one of the reasons we buy a BMW and I don't worry about wearing out the tires doing it or believing that anyone that has a sport suspension never pushes the corners.

I agree that the dynamics of the car when cornering will flatten the tire patch - hence the reason for the extreme camber.

However, even if you drive radical alot, probably you are only riding on the flats of your tires 5% of the time. In which case you will have accelerated wear on the center and outside of the tire.

The rest of the time you are riding on the inside (the time before that 75mph off ramp). So the highest percentage of miles is still going to be driving flat on the inside of the tires where they are wearing out.

There must be something to the cars that allows some to go 30k and others to go 11k. Not sure what it is, but two of my buddies got about 25-30k out of factory tires on their 540's. One drives alot of freeway but enjoys the curves, the other is primarily around town, curves and an occasional trip.

capriracer

A couple of thoughts:

Most tire wear occurs in the cornering mode, so I'll bet JAS's buddy who drives around town is the one who got the lower mileage - more turns per mile.

Obviously, vigorous cornering causes vigorous tire wear. And tire wear increases faster than the cornering does. Put another way, douple the cornering, quadruple the tire wear.

There are a number of vehicles that use a lot of rear tire camber, all because improved cornering is desired, and they all have tire wear problems. I'll give you 2 - Pontiac Vibe and Lincoln LS.

Hope this helps.