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Low End Sedans (under $16k)

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Comments

  • crimsonacrimsona Member Posts: 153
    The safercars site actually states comparison should be done within 250 lbs or the same class. From the specs on Honda.com, the Civic and the Fit are within 200 lbs of each other, which should make them comparable (and in any case, the cars listed are the ones I mostly cross-shopped with the Fit)
  • backybacky Twin CitiesMember Posts: 18,946
    You are correct, some trims of the Fit compared to some trims of the Civic (DX and LX) are within the 250 pound weight difference so they can be compared for frontal crash tests. But that doesn't change the fact that the Civic is a class up from the Fit.
  • Karen_SKaren_S Member Posts: 5,092
    A national finance magazine is looking to interview consumers who are looking to purchase a or have already purchased the new subcompact cars because of the high cost of fuel. Please send an e-mail to [email protected] no later than Saturday, June 10, 2006 by 5:00 PM PT/8:00 PM ET containing your daytime contact information and the vehicle you are considering.

    ---------------

    A national finance magazine is looking to interview consumers who have traded-in their larger SUV for a smaller vehicle, because of the high cost of gas. Please send an e-mail to [email protected] no later than Saturday, June 10, 2006 by 5:00 PM PT/8:00 PM ET containing your daytime contact information and car you traded-in and the current car you own.

    Thanks,
    Chintan Talati
    Corporate Communications
    Edmunds.com
  • mwrobe1mwrobe1 Member Posts: 7
    FYI....

    http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/060607/law111.html?.v=39

    2006 Kia Rio/Rio5 Ranked Highest in Sub-compact Car Category by J.D. Power and Associates
    Wednesday June 7, 6:33 pm ET
    Kia Sub-compact Vehicle Earns Highest in Segment Honor in Initial Quality Study

    IRVINE, Calif., June 7 /PRNewswire/ -- The 2006 Kia Rio/Rio5 ranked highest for initial quality in the sub-compact category in a tie according to the J.D. Power and Associates 2006 Initial Quality Study(SM) (IQS). The annual report, released today, measures 217 vehicle attributes across eight categories, including the driving experience, engine and transmission, and a broad range of quality problem symptoms reported by vehicle owners.

    "Rio is a class-leading sub-compact vehicle and an excellent example of Kia's continued dedication to offering consumers an affordable vehicle without sacrificing quality," said Len Hunt, executive vice president and COO of Kia Motors America. "We're extremely pleased that the automotive industry and consumers alike recognize Rio's high level of excellence."

    In the study, the Kia Rio was honored as the highest-ranking model in a tie in the sub-compact segment at 137 problems per 100 vehicles (PP100). The all-new 2006 Kia Sedona minivan also performed well in its first year of release, while the Kia Sportage compact SUV scored better than the industry average.

    The all-new 2006 Rio sedan and Rio5 five-door are raising the bar in the entry level segment by offering class-leading horsepower and interior volume, and six standard airbags, including full-length side-curtain airbags. The Rio and Rio5's longer wheelbase and increased width and height contribute to a best-in-class 92.2 cubic feet of passenger room and both body styles feature a long list of standard equipment.

    Kia Motors America is the sales, marketing and distribution arm of Kia Motors Corp. in Seoul, South Korea. For more information, including photography, visit www.kiamedia.com.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesMember Posts: 18,946
    I picked up some information while visiting some local dealers in the Twin Cities area today:

    * Versa (hatchback) will be arriving soon, in the next month or so. Sedan is coming later this year.
    * Yaris sedan is very hard to get in my area in anything than a basic configuration, e.g. no side bags, power package, alloys, or ABS. Also 5-speeds are hard to find--only about 10% are 5-speeds. Hatches are also rare (my local dealer didn't have any), and when they do arrive they are snatched off the truck almost before they touch the ground.
    * Accent SE will not be available until September, at least that is what my local dealer says. (There was no discussion of any other car, so I don't think they were telling me that just to sell me something else.)
    * Rabbits will be arriving "real soon", in the next week or so.

    Since I couldn't drive a Yaris hatch (my objective at the Toyota dealer), they suggested I drive a sedan. All they had was an automatic. The good news was that I was able to find a seating position that was tolerable after fiddling with it for awhile. (I had trouble with that on my test drive a few weeks ago.) Also, I was more impressed with the ride compliance this time around. But I was not impressed by the fact that this was a basic car, without power package, ABS, or side airbags, and the price was still over $14k. Considering a Fit is only $14,400 with those features, that doesn't seem like a very good deal to me.
  • randydriverrandydriver Member Posts: 262
    What's a Rabbit....is it like the old VW Rabbit.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesMember Posts: 18,946
    The Rabbit is the new (old) name for the new design of what used to be called the Golf in the U.S.
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    Backy, no Accent SE until the fall? That's news - I've been told it is now available at a few dealers (as the first allocation comes in from the port). My local dealer said an allocation should be in soon at my area. Of course, it has been available in Canada already.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesMember Posts: 18,946
    Technically, September (most of it anyway) is summer, but anyway... I was just reporting what this one dealer (sales manager) told me. Maybe because we are about as far away from a port (for Hyundai cars anyway) as you can get in the U.S., that will delay availability here. Or maybe this sales manager was wrong. We'll see soon enough.
  • wave54wave54 Member Posts: 211
    Strange... I've caught a couple of Rabbits on the roads here already, but not a single Fit or Yaris (sedan or hatch), despite being available for 2 months or so!

    I've wondered what's up since I'm traveling on major CT roadways roughly 1200 miles/week. Where are all these new Hondas and Toyotas being sold -- haven't seen anything but pictures so far.

    Have only passed 2 '06 Rios and 1 new Accent. Plenty of Civics, Corollas, SUVs and luxury sedans, though.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesMember Posts: 18,946
    I think you answered your own question re the Rabbit. CT is MUCH closer to the ports than is Minneapolis. The VW dealer I talked to yesterday said the Rabbits would be here "very soon", as in a few days. So the difference could be shipping time.

    Also are you sure you didn't see the GTI vs. the Rabbit? The new GTI has been available for awhile.

    I haven't seen any Fits or Yarii on the roads here either. But they have not been available in volume for very long. Divide the number of Fits/Yarii on the road now by the total number of cars on the road and you'll see the odds of seeing one of them on the road are not very good yet. I have just started seeing '07 Camrys on the road, and those sell in much greater volume than the Fit and Yaris combined.
  • randydriverrandydriver Member Posts: 262
    I have seen a lot of Rios and Accents here and am starting to see quite a few of the Yarises. Funny thought the VW dealer is just 3 miles down the road and I havent seen on Rabbit. Our port is in Houston and I am in Dallas, so we get stuff pretty quick. Oh, and I am starting to see a few Fits.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Alamogordo, NMMember Posts: 7,615
    is the Hyundai Accent SE the 3-door hatch Accent for 2006? Because if it is my local dealer about a mile down the road from me has a metallic lime green Accent 3-door hatchback for sale.

    That same dealer is offering a white 2006 Hyundai Accent 4-door sedan, loaded with power everything and side and side curtain airbags for $12,699. That's after a $1,000 Hyundai rebate and a $161 dealer discount. That, to me, is a great deal on a good looking new 4-door Accent sedan.

    I saw a few of the new Accents on the way to Idaho Falls, ID, coming back from Yellowstone National Park and Jackson, WY, a month or so ago. For some reason on that drive of, say, 130 miles(Jackson, WY to Pocatello, ID)the new Accents were passing by me at a decent rate. I think Hyundai and Kia have done a great job with their new Accent and Rio and the more I look the more I respect their builders.

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • wave54wave54 Member Posts: 211
    Checked photos online to be sure and the 2 cars I've seen do appear to be the 07 Rabbit and definitely not the GTI. These were relatively plain -- I thought they were updated Golfs to match the newer Jetta styling, front and rear.

    Haven't seen an 07 Camry either.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesMember Posts: 18,946
    There are two hatches, the base GS model and the loaded, sportier SE model. There's lots of details at hyundaiusa.com now.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    No details on the Accent 2 door when Accent is selected on the Hyundai website only the four door is shown.
  • shado4shado4 Member Posts: 287
    Click on the "Available Soon" link on the Hyundai USA website then choose Accent.

    Or, simply click this
  • randydriverrandydriver Member Posts: 262
    cool.
  • micwebmicweb Member Posts: 1,617
    When I first heard about the $14k price tag on the SE (which gets you the power group and aircon) I thought it sounded overpriced - but there is other content as well, with some pretty low profile, V rated tires, so maybe this will be a budget GTi or Si - in which case it may not be overpriced after all. Have to wait and see. The day an Accent or Rio gets the kind of "drivability" reviews that the Fit recently got from Car and Driver, I'll be over at a dealer to test drive one - certainly even in the Car and Driver test the noise level (low) on the Accent sedan was great, as was the braking, and on the Rio version they gave it high marks for handling.

    Let's see what happens. We need drivability, and there is still stiff competition from Toyota (Yaris, xA) and Honda (Fit).
  • randydriverrandydriver Member Posts: 262
    That is what I want for my next car.
  • germancarfan1germancarfan1 Member Posts: 221
    image

    image

    Look at that sticker price w/ Power everything, ABS, Traction control (EDL AND ASR!), side curtain airbags!

    image
  • backybacky Twin CitiesMember Posts: 18,946
    Is that sticker for a base 2-door, or the 4-door that is pictured?

    So the base price is about $1000 more than an Accent SE (unless the SE's price of $14k includes destination, not sure on that), but with less equipment, shorter warranty except for corrosion (and you really need a long warranty on a VW), and poorer fuel economy. But a lot more oomph in the engine compartment. Interesting tradeoff.
  • germancarfan1germancarfan1 Member Posts: 221
    2-door. There is no base VW. Everything is standard. Power everything, A/C, remote entry w/ alarm, ABS, traction control, side curtain airbags, 10-speaker sound system, etc. FAR more standard equipment than a Accent. If you'd rather drive the tin box on wheels that is the Accent and get crappy resale value, be my guest. Not sure many would agree with you.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesMember Posts: 18,946
    Ah, so there are no options on the Rabbit! Interesting marketing strategy. But that also means that owners can't get options such as a power moonroof or alloy wheels.

    Note that the Rabbit is lacking some features that are standard on the Accent SE hatchback, most notably 16" V-rated tires with alloys (really sharp 5-spokers). Also the Accent has the excellent 8-way driver's seat standard, which apparently is not available even as an option on the Rabbit since there are no options. Except for a six-speaker 172-watt MP3 sound system and traction control on the Accent, it has all the standard features you listed for the Rabbit, plus the 16" alloys plus the great driver's seat. Also, a power moonroof and a sound system with subwoofer, CD changer, 220 watts, and even a cassette deck are available for people who like those things.

    Both cars are literally "boxes on wheels" (OK maybe two boxes). Personally I'd rather have a car with a proven reliability record and a long warranty to boot, plus good fuel economy, than the more powerful Rabbit with VW's poor reliability record. But as you say, not everyone will agree with me. Different strokes for different folks.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Alamogordo, NMMember Posts: 7,615
    better that the old, recycled looking VW Rabbit. To buy the Rabbit to me means buying a car with a worrisome electronic build and reliability record.

    The Hyundai and the new Rio from Kia offer much more for the money and more fun per dollar, hands down. Better body design integrity from the get-go, also.

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • shado4shado4 Member Posts: 287
    To buy the Rabbit to me means buying a car with a worrisome electronic build and reliability record.

    Unfortunately, I experienced that poor quality first hand when I bought a 2000 VW GTI. Both the driver and passenger side windows crashed into their respective doors, the cruise control switch broke, unlocking the driver's door with the remote required pressing the button 2 times until it was finally fixed, the door speakers developed an annoying rattle (probably damaged by the falling windows!), squeaks that were never silenced, the list goes on.

    I traded the GTI in for a Hyundai Elantra after 2 years and have never regretted that decision.

    The GTI was fun to drive, but the constant trips to the service department quickly soured me on the whole VW ownership experience.

    JD Power's recent initial quality survey tends to back up my problems, as VW is still near the bottom of the pile.

    Buy another VW? Never again.
  • johnnyvjjohnnyvj Member Posts: 112
    Buy another VW? Never again.

    I wonder if VW has a clue as to how badly horror stories like this are hurting them... nearly everyone I know who's owned a VW in the past few years has a story similar to this one to tell to everyone and anyone willing to listen. :surprise:

    VW just doesn't seem to fully understand how many enemies they are making, and how important good word-of-mouth is, especially in the Internet age. If they did, they'd be making big strides in improving reliability. I don't see too many indications of that so far. :sick:
  • backybacky Twin CitiesMember Posts: 18,946
    I know it affected me. A couple of years ago I considered the Passat 1.8T wagon. But after reading the tales of woe on the Passat problems discussion in Town Hall, I decided to look elsewhere. Too bad, too, because otherwise I thought the Passat was a really good vehicle.
  • tsgeiseltsgeisel Member Posts: 352
    If you'd rather drive the tin box on wheels that is the Accent and get crappy resale value, be my guest.

    It remains to be seen what the resale value on the re-released Rabbit will be like. And how much it may suffer from the reputation of other VW cars of the past.

    Myself, I was looking for a 4-door car; well, a 5-door actually, when I was looking. The new Rabbit would never really have been a consideration for just that reason.
  • ross14ross14 Member Posts: 36
    In Queens, NYC, a few days ago, a salesmen left a message to call him about a new 2 door Accent. I'll return the call, & see if he really has a 2 door. Hibernation may be over.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesMember Posts: 18,946
    OK, so now I am wondering... why does it take until September to get those Accent hatches to Minnesota??
  • lhansonlhanson Member Posts: 268
    Hyundai sells cars all over the world and to parts of Minnesota. It just takes a while.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesMember Posts: 18,946
    I could push the car from the coast to Minnesota in two-three months. :confuse:
  • lhansonlhanson Member Posts: 268
    I don't understand why you would want to wait for an Accent rated at 32/35 Manual and 28/37 Automatic when you can get a Yaris now at 34/40 Manual and 34/39 Automatic. Rudy Luther is showing a Hatchback in stock now. Your resale is so much higher with a Toyota and the price is about the same. I paid $12,498 (MSRP) for my Manual Hatchback with Mats, winter package, and MP3 Stereo. It is getting 37 MPG in city driving.
  • tsgeiseltsgeisel Member Posts: 352
    Not to jump on the Accent bandwagon (although I do own a Hyundai), perhaps someone doesn't like the center-mounted information panel? Or perhaps they didn't like the actual look of the Yaris? Maybe they didn't like how it felt when driving it? Maybe they didn't like having to figure out 90-bazillion trim options...

    Or, maybe, just maybe, he's had good experiences with Hyundai and wants to show some brand loyalty.

    There's lots of reasons not to like a particular car, and lots of reasons to like a particular car.
  • inharmswayinharmsway Member Posts: 153
    My local zip code won't let me configure a yaris sedan with a 5-speed,only the s sedan. One reason for me not to bother with a yaris. I don't like the cladding. Talking about not to bother, same goes for me reading germancarfan1 messages.
  • lhansonlhanson Member Posts: 268
    Are you talking about 5 speed automatic or 5 speed manual?
    What is "cladding"? Sorry to be so ignorant.
  • lhansonlhanson Member Posts: 268
    What happened to your hilarious quote #3524? Mark Twain would have been proud of that one.
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    "I could push the car from the coast to Minnesota in two-three months."

    LOL...seriously though, that is quite odd on such late release in your region, backy. As of now, a good amount of dealers should have at least one in stock. Are there other dealers you might be able to check?
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    Sorry but I can't stand the new Yaris grill (Camry also for that matter). Saw one in person the other day, I couldn't bare to have a second look ;)
  • backybacky Twin CitiesMember Posts: 18,946
    ...perhaps someone doesn't like the center-mounted information panel?

    Yep.

    Or perhaps they didn't like the actual look of the Yaris?

    Not too much, but I can live with it. The sedan looks kind of like a Camry that's been in the dryer too long, but with a droopy butt. The hatch looks cute as a bug. I'm not into cute with cars, but I'm sure my daughter will love the looks when I turn the car over to her for college.

    Maybe they didn't like how it felt when driving it?

    Definitely. No better than a tolerable driving position even with the seat height adjuster in the sedan (does the hatch even have one?).

    Maybe they didn't like having to figure out 90-bazillion trim options...

    More to the point, dealing with critical options (for me) not being available in my region, e.g. ABS, side bags, and power package on the sedan, or trying to find a hatchback so equipped ANYWHERE (good to hear there is at least one available in the Twin Cities--wonder if it had ABS, side bags, and power package??).

    Also I'm not keen on spending considerably more for the Yaris than for a comparably-equipped car that is smoother, quieter, more comfortable to drive, and has a much longer warranty.
  • germancarfan1germancarfan1 Member Posts: 221
    Although there was NO personal attack of any kind, Edmunds appears to censor messages they don't like. Here it is again, albeit edited slightly to remove any possibility of being considered "personal."

    Bad move Hanson. You brought up one of Hyundai's competitors in this forum! Didn't you read the "rules?" No mentioning anything that might jeopardize Hyundai's place as the "value leader."

    What's to come you say?

    - Endless discussion about how resale value is meaningless because the average consumer keeps their cars 17.5 years

    - Hyundai's longer warranty which covers everything, including gas and parking fees.

    -But you'll never need the warranty, because the Accent will never break down, ever. After all, it has a history of superior reliability. CR and every over magazine and study are biased against Hyundai.

    - The "gorgeous" look of the Accent. After all, plastic and tin is beautiful. Don't you dare disagree.

    - An endless list of safety "features" that the Accent has. Hyundai is very commited to safety. Again, don't look to NHTSA or IIHS because they have a bias: They only like safe cars. Pffff!
  • shado4shado4 Member Posts: 287
    What is "cladding"?

    "Cladding" in this particular instance is the completely useless and infinitely tacky (IMO) under-bumper spoilers and side rocker panels found on cars like the Yaris S sedan, the Corolla S sedan, and the Honda Fit Sport.

    I don't want to "pimp my ride" with such visually unappealing pieces of plastic hanging off the bottom of the car. Give me clean lines any day, thank you very much.

    At least Hyundai isn't forcing these ground hugging eyesores on buyers of the Accent SE. From what I understand, they will be offered as optional accessories.
  • germancarfan1germancarfan1 Member Posts: 221
    The Yaris S and Fit Sport is optional as well. Don't like the cladding, don't get the sport model.
  • shado4shado4 Member Posts: 287
    The Yaris S and Fit Sport is optional as well. Don't like the cladding, don't get the sport model.

    It's not that simple. For the Honda, if you don't want the cladding that comes with the Sport model and instead buy a base Fit you forfeit the cruise control and fog lights. Why? Why are you forced to get plastic under-bumper spoilers and side rocker extensions just to get cruise control?

    As for the Yaris, inharmsway said this:

    My local zip code won't let me configure a yaris sedan with a 5-speed,only the s sedan.

    Why won't Toyota sell a 5-speed stick on the base Yaris sedan for his region? You apparently have to buy the S sedan with all the bolted-on plastic to get a manual transmission! Unbelievable.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesMember Posts: 18,946
    This reminds me of a quote I saw in the newspaper the other day:

    A patient, thoughtful, analytical person is made invisible in this world of sustained screaming.

    -- Prof. Jerry Herron

    The Host can pull this if necessary. I thought it was appropriate though.

    Amidst the sarcasm, did you want to contribute something to the ongoing discussion of low-end cars? Hey, how about that Rabbit 2-door, for example. Such a great car that VW can't find the words to describe it on their own web site. ;) Now, drop the TSI I4 into it, maybe the future 1.2L with about 150 hp, keep the price at around $15k, and find some way to get the reliability up to pairity with most of the rest of the cars in this class, and VW would really have something there!
  • germancarfan1germancarfan1 Member Posts: 221
    How about divergent points of view in a discussion board dominated by Hyundai yes men? Have I not at least done that?

    The Rabbit hasn't been released yet much like the Elantra has not been released yet.
  • lhansonlhanson Member Posts: 268
    You are right about the 5 speed manual Yaris. I own a hatchback with a 5 speed manual and have seen several base model sedans in the Memphis area (38118) with manual transmissions. What is your zip code?
  • backybacky Twin CitiesMember Posts: 18,946
    That was an imaginery Rabbit that you provided photos of earlier? And it was an imaginery Rabbit that another poster said he saw on the highway? And an imaginery Rabbit that CanadianDriver tested the other day? Strange.

    The Elantra was released in '92 in the U.S. But it's growing out of the low-end car class, even though it starts below $16k. The Accent is Hyundai's "low end" entry in the U.S.

    Oh, sorry to mention the Accent.

    Know any VW yes men to balance those terrible Hyundai (and Honda and Mazda I guess...) yes men? ;)
  • germancarfan1germancarfan1 Member Posts: 221
    Yes, there are people that consider themselves VW enthusiasts who take pictures of pre-release vehicles and post them. Magazines scramble to do early reviews of them because they know how excited people are about upcoming models. Unfortunately (I guess for you), Hyundai doesn't command such attention and thus, few are interested in their release photos (other than those on this board).
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