Honda Civic Quality Control Issues

hondasmonda

Flattening the floor? No real allocation of resources. Honda is trying to pull one over everyone by claiming there is increased interior and that is the reason for the struts. It is
well known fact that the wishbone design is more costlier than the strut.

I have no issue with struts, if implemented properly. Honda, however, is using the cheapest form of struts you can buy on the market- (i.e. GM quality type struts that are used on the Cavalier).

Isellhondas - I think you are trying to pull the wool over us. There are far too many professional
auto journalists (print and online) that have commented on the poorer handling of the new Civic. I agree with you, however, that the Civic's target market is not the BMW enthusiast.
You honestly can't say with a straight face that the Handling has improved. I find the ride choppy, undisciplined, and lacking in control (as
many other unbiased individuals do).

mdriver

hondasmonda, you are right in your analysis about the handling. Although the Civic is not aimed at BMW drivers, its handling is so far removed from a BMW's that it's not even worth talking about the comparison. Honda should have at least moved in that direction (like the Focus did). I think better handling is something desireable regardless of your driving style. Am I the only one who thinks that a newly designed model should be improved over the old one? The new one is better in some respects I agree. But worse in many other respects. Again I ask, why no "sport suspension" on the EX? Let the other LX and DX models have the "soft" suspension for those people who prefer it. Although I don't like Fords in general, the Focus suspension is an embarrassment to the Civic.

isellhondas

Whether you believe me or not. I'm only stating my opinions which are based on driving the car and riding with a professional driver as he tore through curves lined with cones.

It was just fine with me and I doubt if one in 100 would find fault. Those who do should simply buy something different.

I wonder why hondamondo thinks honda uses the "cheapest" struts. Must know something I don't know I guess.

anselmo1

The new Honda Civic struts are from the same supplier of the Chevy Cavaliers. Someone needs to do his homework and while you are at it, take a look at that cheap Civic exhaust system that has a "Midas " look to it. Definitely cost cutting measures.

isellhondas

I'm not sure if your information is correct or not. Along with all of my customers, I really don't care.

Assuming you are correct, why would you assume that they are the same? A manyfacturer can build many different levels of quality product.

And I actually thought about you yesterday as I walked past a row of Civics. I glanced down at the tailpipe and saw....gulp...a tailpipe!

That's ALL I could see and it looked like...well...a tailpipe!

What do you do? Do you crawl under cars in parking lots to inspect their exhaust systems?

Guess I'll have to look undr one the next time I'm out in the shop and a Civic is up on the lift...yawn....

dash400m

I'm at the point of giving my '89 Civic Wagon (175,000 miles) the farewell salute. '89 was a great year for Honda, and this Civic has gone the course with minimal problems. She's just showing wear, and I'm not willing to restore her like I've done with my '85.

I'm seriously thinking about the HX/CVT. I've read alot about this model, but I don't hear many comments about it. So, I'm asking... what do you folks know about this vehicle? Any experiences with it, good or bad? Based on the research I've done, I'm surprised that the CVT hasn't taken off in lieu of the automatic.

isellhondas: What do you say with respect to sales and customer satisfaction?

auburn63: Are there any quality control issues or stubborn maintenance bugs that you're aware of?

Others: Come on out with your comments.

Thanks.

paulo3

The dealership I bought my Accord at extended the bumper to bumper to 4 years and the power train to 5 years on all new car purchases. The only catch is that I have to take it to the dealership where I bought my Accord to have any warranty work performed.

Has any other Honda dealership done anything similar? It seems to give me an added piece of mind. In addition, I receive a free loaner car for any work that takes over four hours to complete. Other perks were a discount card for parts purchases which comes in handy.

isellhondas

I'll probably get slapped down by the "experts" for saying this but I've heard of no problems...zero with the CVT transmissions. Auburn would be the guy who would see any problems.

The HX has been discussed in another topic but I'll give you my take on them.

Great cars that don't sell all that well. Most buyers will pay more for an EX. With the EX they get A/C, sunroof, CD player, ABS etc.

When A/C is added to the HX it takes the price pretty close to the EX.

mdriver

isellhondas, you answered the question of low HX sales in your last sentance: no A/C. I have dealer installed A/C on my 6th gen HX and it is excellent. But most buyers won't be convinced and this alone will send the HX to the bottom of the sales numbers. The fuel economy is only marginally better than the LX or EX so I don't know why Honda bothers to sell the HX at all. A used CVT may also have low resale value, since most potential used HX buyers may view it with caution.

isellhondas

To most buyers, it's an automatic and that's all they care about.

The dealer installed A/C is exactly the same as the A/C that's factory installed.

I guess I also wonder why they continue to make and sell the HX. We do sell a few and they seem to sell in spurts.

Myself, I would pay the extra bucks for the EX.

If we do the math it would take a LONG time and a LOT of miles for the difference in mileage to make much of a difference.

dash400m

Thanks, but I went braindead on the CVT topic. I should have done a search before posting here. Anyway, I found the topic, and I'll be reading through the postings.

I test drove one a couple of years ago. I liked the ride, and it was like gliding on ice -- actually very smooth. I need to test drive the current model. We'll see how it handles on an exit ramp off I-95. Seems like I've always got Bubba-Butt riding my bumper (even in the right hand lane). I always dust them on exit ramps!

I understand the rational about the "EX" comparison. However, I don't care about the extra trim and marginal H.P. difference. I'll just take floor mats, AC and an "AM" radio...

I'll let you know when I test drive one. Thanks again.

zapatista2000

A quick question for those of you who don't mind. I'd really like to get a Civic, but I'm concerned about the high miles that would undoubtedly accompany any Civic that I could afford for the $5,500 or so I'm looking to spend. I'm most concerned about dependability and the cost of fixing the things that will inevitably break and wear out on any mid 90s vehicle with 60,000 + miles. Neons and Saturns seem to be fairly dependable, their owners seem to love them, and it sounds like they're less expensive to fix than Hondas. But I always hear the "all you need to put into a Honda is gas and oil" thing and they seem to run for ever. For those who have, or know someone who has, owned any of these, can you offer advice on which one to go for?
Thanks a lot.

paulo3

The Neon has not had the best reliability rating.
Saturn is basically a good means of transportation if you don't like frills. If you are tall, the Saturn is a very uncomfortable car.

I would consider the Civic, Corolla , Sentra or a Mazda Protege over the Neon or Saturn.

gasguzz

S-Series, that is. Had a 99-SW2 and traded for an 01-minivan (for 2 toddlers growing up). Only put some 12.5k miles on it. Forget at least the driver's seat on long drives, the most uncomfortable I've car ever bought. Common are warped rotors, top engine mount failure and the cooling fan taking too long to engage (switch it on by turning on the AC). May be cheap to fix, but you'll have to do more fixes than a Honda.

dsgecho

)
Looking seriously at a 2001 LX. Is there confidence now that late model year build 2001's have the kinks worked out in them?
Thanks,
Don Gillespie

hondasmonda

All car manufacturers will take care of most bugs within the first two years of new model. There is,however, the issue of suppliers not correcting major design flaws.

Then again - the Accord is still having problems with its faulty transmissions. This problem has existed since the 98 model year.

Chrysler has been even worse with its transmissions in their minivans. They consistently require replacement within the 40-70 K mileage range.

isellhondas

....sigh....

For the umpteenth time...sigh...Honda is NOT "still having problems with it's faulty transmissions" !!!!

Chrysler...yes!

hondasmonda

For the umpteenth time - Honda IS "still having problems with it's faulty transmissions".

It is rather sad to see you in such a state of denial.

isellhondas

Sorry, but you are incorrect unless you are talking about some isolated problem that certainly can pop up.

But then, what do I know?..I deal with them everyday.

Sorry to disappoint you.

hondasmonda

I am not referring to isolated problems..

Transmission failures are still happening. This fact has been well documented throughout these forums, other forums on the web, and "impartial" honda service technicians with no pecuniary interest.

I am surprised you have actually admitted that Honda "had" a faulty transmission. In these same forums you denied that Honda ever had a transmission problem. Cat caught your tongue?

isellhondas

I just hate being misquoted...but NEVER have I denied that Honda *ever* had a transmission problem. Any and all cars can have transmission problems.

What I am saying is the fact that there is no ongoing problems with Honda transmissions.

You can think whatever you want to.

hondasmonda

Obviously, you received customer service training from Corporate Honda. "Oh no sir, it's a Honda - our cars never have problems with their transmissions, engines or any part of the car for that matter". You can deny all you want, but the facts are still there - Honda does have an ongoing problem with their automatic transmissions. Not an isolated problem by any stretch of the imagination. Go on any web search engine and type in the phrase "accord faulty tranmission" and see for yourself. The basis of my opinion is not solely reliant on the web. Actual Honda service techs have advised me that the auto transmission on Accords and Civics have been quite problematic since 1998 and on.

Let's not forget this forum is intended to help individuals make purchasing decisions, and more importantly help current owners who are experiencing problems as a result of a "QUALITY CONTROL ISSUE".

shawn_f18

If I could buy my car all over again, I would reject the extended warranty. It is not worth the money in my opinion. The warranty is worthless as it only covers what, in my opinion, Honda should already be covering. If I pay $15,000 or more for a car, shouldn't I expect that they will always fix problems at no cost if it is truly a "Manafacturing Defect"? If you bought a stereo, brought it home and it wouldn't power on or something, would you just say oh well, feces occurs. No; you would go back to the place you bought it. Besides that, how are you supposed to trust dealerships when making a claim? If a part "wears out", it isn't covered. So how does one really know if a part is defective or if it just "wore out". The warranty only covers things that are defective. The rental coverage is also horrible. I had a problem that was covered by the warranty and the rental they paid for was pratically a matchbox car. It was a Chevy Metro and I had to pay extra to actually get a decent compact similar to what I normally drive.

On another note, I have had a 2001 Civic for a few months and already have a cracked windshield from a stone hit. Well I have had previous cars (ford escort, pontiac grand am) that have never had their windshields cracked. Yes, I have had hard stone hits with every car I have owned. It seems lame that a Honda windshield can't take a hit. I don't see how the windshield could be "worn out". Maybe windshields with the built in antennae are just weaker and can't take a hit. Is this a design feature?

isellhondas

OK, we disagree. Let's just leave it like that.

You must remember the web sites that attract those who have had troubles tend to paint a bleak picture. The VAST MAJORITY of owners have had no trouble at all. These stories of success are seldom told.

Misery always loves company, wouldn't you agree?

isellhondas

Buying an extended warranty is kinda like buying health insurance for your car. Take the risk that you won't have any expensive repairs or sign up for the extended coverage. It's up to you.

And...I've had my share of broken windshields.

If a rock decides to hit your windshield, it may or may not cause damage. The make of the car has nothing to do with it.

And, there is no antenna in your windshield.

madirishman1

Since you mention that there are few success stories, let me add mine. I've had my 2001LX Civic for nearly a year now and have nothing but wonderful success with it. I've taken four or five trips to Colorado Springs which is a five hour drive from my location and it runs cherry. Crusing at 80mph has never been smoother. I love it!

isellhondas

And your experience is typical. I think sometimes that people forget these forums will bring out the problems more than the praises.

And the problems. although real for the most part tend to get amplified perhaps.

I hope your happy experience continues!

hondasmonda

I agree that these forums will point out the problems more than the good stories. The issue, however, remains that this topic is devoted to "ISSUES". Therefore, it will have what you "perceive" as a slam on Honda vehicles. There are consumers who own Kia and Hyundai vehicles that have good stories, but you rarely hear about them as well. The point is Honda does not produce an infallible vehicle. As owners/drivers of Honda vehicles, we have the right to discuss the common problems experienced with our vehicles. These forums are here to help individuals better deal with some of the more suspect service departments at dealerships.

I'll be the first to admit that Honda, in the past, has produced some reliable and economical vehicles. There is some evidence to suggest that this is changing for the worse.

I don't want to hammer the following point much further.Back to this automatic transmission issue - Do you disagree with what Honda Service Techs have been telling me about the Automatic Transmissions? Canadians get their Honda's from the same factories as Americans. I believe that people in the trenches have a much more accurate picture than individuals in sales.

I am not trying to start an argument. I just want to understand your reasoning.

mdriver

Extended warranties are nothing more than expensive insurance policies that favour the dealer, not the customer. They usually have many restictions that prevent you from making claims, unlike standard factory warranties. Speaking of which, Honda has one of the lowest warranty coverages of any car maker. It seems like other companies cover their products for longer periods, particularly their powertrain coverages. Not Honda. Honda thinks that they can just "coast" along with products that are barely improved over past efforts and people will continue to buy. This was GM's philosophy in the 70s. The fact that a "cheap" Korean car like the Elantra, which is selling like hotcakes, drives better than the Civic should have Honda very worried.

isellhondas

I only speak from my observations and experiences. Remember, I spend much (most, it seems) of my life in a Honda dealership.

And, being a former auto center manager, I spend quite a bit of time hanging around the shop talking to the Service Advisors and technicians.

I do deal with and talk to the people in the trenches.

Again, you have your opinions and I have mine. There is NO widespread problems with Honda transmissions. Do problems EVER occur? Sure! And those are the ones you read about.

I think if you compare Hondas problems to other makes you'll change your tune a bit.

That is my reasoning.

isellhondas

This has been discussed many times before.

The length of a car's warranty has little to do with the quality of the car. It's a marketing decision when the terms of a warranty are set.

Don't think for a minute that the risk/exposure factors aren't included in the price of the car.

Any manufacturer could give you a 10 year/150,000 all inclusive warranty. Guess who pays?

mattbrat

I have a cracked windshield too, just two months after I got the car. I'm still driving with it, its been 8 months now. My friend has an 01 accord with a cracked windshield. I'm certain Honda puts the cheapest windshields on its cars. I never had a car with a windshield so weak, and this coming from someone who drove GM junk for years.
By the way, I have the reddish orange illumination in my civic too, I don't have the EX, mine is an HX. It looks like the illumination in my brother's BMW. Really cool!

isellhondas

If a flying rock decides to hit your windshield, it will probably break it.

Glass is glass. sometimes we get lucky and the rock just bounces off without damage. The make of the car has nothing to do with this.

paulo3

Sure the car manufacturer has nothing to do with the glass breaking . How about the glass supplier that Honda utilizes though? Is this a sign of diminishing quality or just a cheap supplier used by Honda to cut corners?

isellhondas

I guess it's possible that windshields may be getting thinner in an attempt to save weight and reduce costs?

If this is the case, this would probably apply to all makes and models I would think.

Flying rocks do not discriminate. I've had windshields broken in amny different makes and models over the years.

Once in our brand new '95 Intrepid on the way home from the car dealership!

That's what car insurance is for anyway.

jimcarr

Isellhondas

Last week I purchased a new 02 Civic EX (before I read this particular discussion.)

When I compare the quality of my Civic to the first new car I purchased, a 50 Chevy there has been a dramatic change in quality. The 50 had a 30day 1k mile warranty for instance,no oil filter and other things too numerous to mention.

I personally don't care if the Honda isn't a race car. All I want is dependable transportation and I believe I have just that in the new Civic in my garage.

Wonder how many of the gripers actually own a 01 or 02 Civic?

isellhondas

Believe it or not, I too owned a 1950 Chevy!

I was just a kid. I bought it in 1968 for 200.00.

It had a split manifold and made the sweetest sounds!

Wish I still had it!

It did have the optional oil filter!

You'll love your new Civic!