The first is when the manufacturer realizes that they made a mistake in design and issues a recall. These recalls are good, very good because it is a measure of corporate responsibility. Usually the service advisor runs my VIN through the computer and will schedule any recall or TSB when the truck is in for service.
The second recall is there is a problem and the NTSB forces or worse yet goes to court to force a recall. There are a few infamous recalls of this type and best left to discussion in other forums.
The third are single vehicle recalls. These work like this. The manufacturer called me to find out if I was happy with the vehicle, 4 or 5 years after purchase. My wife answered their questions with our dealer name and that I was having problems keeping the front end aligned and the paint was flaking. In about a week the dealer called asking to fix the front end at the manufacturers expense and offered a big discount on paint. It turned out that the paint was $200 for hood and roof with the tie rod, ball joints and the CC adjusters for free.
You could figure out what brand of vehicle we're talking about but that isn't relevant. What is really important is the manufacturer that jumps on the problem and solves the problem is perceived as a responsible corporation. The public generally rewards that corporation with repeat sales. The manufacturers that do not step up to their responsibility get trashed in forums like this one, the general press and in the broadcast media. Some manufacturers learn this very quickly, while others are stubborn and others still will never learn. (There are many in the latter category, motor vehicle and other products.)
What we don't see in the pure numbers are the things like voluntary, cattle prodded and court forced. The numbers don't show the severity of the recall. Things like incorrect stickers or labels are trivial and really are for the subsequent owners. The one that it took more than 125 pounds of pressure to apply the parking brake is serious but anyone could figure it out. While the lug nut issue is dangerous.
If I were making a purchase decision based upon recalls, I think that I would prefer to find many more recall notices at NTSB than that I heard about in the media.
On my last truck, I drove through some very high water during some heavy rains when I picked a friend up at LAX (January 1994). A couple of weeks later, my caliper slide froze up. I was just out of warranty. The dealer (one I had never been to before) performed the labor at cost and Ford "goodwill'd" the parts. My bill was barely more than an oil change. I should have had it lubed up after running through water that high.
You will always run into uncooperative dealers from any manufacturer, so I guess I've been fortunate. What I have found in my experience, though, is that when the dealer takes the time to make the call to Ford to find out what options are available, Ford is usually generous beyond what is required. I'm not saying Chevy doesn't do the same thing, because I don't have any experience with them. What I am saying is that, in my opinion, it's that kind of attitude from Ford that helps to create brand loyalty.
a Tundra just for comparison and to prove a point. The Tundra was zippy and car like. Smooth running engine and all. I am sure its a good truck for some jobs but I sure didn't get a good feeling of durability for any kind of real truck use. I just about threw the hood over the top of the truck when I lifted it to look at the engine compartment. I expected it to be heavy and durable like my Silverado. It was light as a feather. When I drove it, the hood moved up and down from the wind. I was not confident with such thin sheetmetal construction that a front or side impact would withstand much of a blow. Not to mention if one would put any kind of real load in the bed or such. It just wasn't constructed for very "heavy" use at all.
Also, the price was about 2k more than the Silverado and had many less available options. Most noteable was "no available locking diff". There wasn't even a under-the-hood courtesy light.
How much cheaper can this truck be built and still sucker those that buy it?
Don't put huge faith in TSB's. A recall says everyone is notified. TSB's are issued to Dealers service and parts departments. Car owners will not be aware of most TSB'sunless they faithfully return to the Dealer for parts and services or have their vehicle serviced at a garage that monitors the manufacturer.
rrichf Thanks for sharing your information and experiences on 3 types of recalls. I clearly understand the distinction between the first two you mentioned but hope you can provide a bit more info on the third. Did they actually issue a single vehicle recall for your vehicle or was this a good will repair/service. The more we (the consumers) understand the better position we are in when dealing with both manufacturers and dealers.
Rocles I was wondering what the problem was and which repair was made to fix your car (vent fan automatically coming on). It sounds like it might have actually been safety related if it involved an electrical short? Thanks, Tony
tweverts, As amazing as it sounds, the company called me asking for my opinion of my 4-5 year old truck. My wife spoke to them and said that I was having a lot of front end alignment problems and the paint was flaking. A week later, a service advisor at the local dealership is calling me to ask me to bring my truck in so that he can look at it. The dealer replaced the tie rod and some ball joints and gave me a very good discount on R/R of the paint. (It was cheaper than 1 Day paint and body's quote.)
I guess that is a one vehicle recall.
The other thing that I've noticed is that if there is a continuing problem it doesn't hurt to call the company's toll free number. Over the years, it has been amazing the response that you get. I've called quite a few, German, Japanese as well as the big three. I've always started the conversation with "Would you help me?" Once I even sent a dealer a bill for 'Automotive Consulting services.' The zone manager bought me lunch over that one and he laughed so hard that he cried as I was telling the story. (No, I never got paid but both the mechanic and the service advisor left the dealership within 3 months for places unknown.)
tweverts, My wife's Olds had a "sensor chip" problem. This was story they told her. You're right, it may have been a short but the car does have a setting (like a thermostat) that controls interior climate and they claimed that it was the problem.
This was posted in topic 1277, post #37. I thought it was rather interesting that all the negatives I mentioned being on a Ford biased BBS was confirmed by this persons post.
I've owned 4 trucks since 1979 (graduation from HS) selling one truck to get another, 2 Toyotas (1989 xcab 4x4 V6 & 1995 xcab 2x4 V6), 2 Chev's (1972 Cheyenne Super V8 & 1999 Silverado). I LOVE the build quality and reliability of the Toyotas but on my last purchase (after spending two days of vacation driving the Dodge, Ford, Chevy & Toyota I narrowed it down to the Ford & Chevy, finally deciding on the Chevy (because of all the negative comments made about the 5.4L on the f150online homepage. Best truck I've owned so far !! Was a little worried that I would be having problems, but so far so good. CR, like all forms of media needs to be taken in your decision making process only so much, apply common sense, your own experiences and other owners information.
unixgod, I'm sorry to rain on your parade..... Had you gone to www.gm.builds.junk.com or www.dodge.haters.com web pages you would have found equally nasty ranting and ravings about how bad Chevy/GMC/Dodge vehicles are. Is any of it true? It doesn't matter. You have to use the brain that god gave you and determine what's fact and who is grinding an axe. Rich
I've owned both brands on and off for more than 30 years. There are some things that I prefer about Fords and other things that I prefer about the GM twins. Before 1988 I felt that Ford had the better product. Now things are pretty even. Lets face it. Some folks are going to like Fords and others will like the GM products, and it is pretty difficult to convice a chololate lover to buy vanilla and vice versa. If I could tell Ford something, I would recommend that they improve the fuel economy of their engines and up the hp and torque even more. If I could tell GM something, I would recommend that they work on their quality, fit, finish, and trim.
I would agree with you on this to a point. I have always preferred the Ford trucks until the new models came out in 97.
I still think that so far Ford has a better Heavy duty line, primarily the diesel. However, the 1/2 ton Ford trucks leave a lot to be desired. They may be rated higher in torque on paper and may even be winning 0-60 acceleration tests, etc. but the real world experience of driving both tells me that the Chevy 1/2 ton engines are better overall for towing and payload, especially at highway speeds.
I don't like "everything" about my new Silverado, but its a much better truck for light duty work than the F150.
Truth be known, I wish Ford would come up with something better as far as the 1/2 ton engines. I would more than likely go back to driving a Ford. I still don't like the new swoopy design though. I would probably get the regular duy F250. The body style is so much more appealing.
However, my 454 Chevy is still going strong after 262,000 miles.
They way companies are merging now-a-days, I won't be surprise to see a Chevy engine in a Ford truck. Whom would have ever thought of seeing Mercedes and Dodge being ONE company? As for post #621, an issue of Motor Trend made a similar comment: "..the perfect truck will be one with Dodge styling, GM engine and transmission, and a Ford interior."(NOTE:Might not be exact wording, I remember reading something VERY similar...anybody remember the issue?) Hmmmm...maybe a conversion shop can produce such a vehichle? It's a possibility, since I know for a fact there is a company in Texas that is putting Hummer-like body style on top a Suburban chasis.
I've read 2 different articles on these hybrids. The company is called Jurrasic Trucks. (I think) There was a website, but I couldn't seem to find it before I posted this. The trucks are actually pretty neat!
They take an older model, solid front axle suburban drivetrain, then fab this "hummer-like" body onto it. The company got their start by building stunt "Hummers" for the movies.
I thought that the website was www.jurrasictrucks.com, but I couldn't seem to locate it. When I find the site, I'll post the address.
Thanks for the info. I personally am only interested in the 1/2 ton tow ratings right now. At least until we buy a 5th wheel travel trailer we are contemplating.
I too was surprised to see a higher tow rating on the Chevy 1/2 tons than the Ford, because Ford seems to always over-rate their trucks' tow and payload ratings.
The Tundra's max tow rating is the 7,200 lbs you posted. All the Tundra's come with an oil cooler and 7,200 tow rating only comes if, like you mentioned, you purchase the tow package that includes a transmission oil cooler as well. However, even if your tow needs never will reach 7,200 lbs, why would anyone want to buy one? They have far less available creature comfort and offroad options and cost more money. I guess just like my preference to Chevy (at least for now), it's still just my opinion. Obviously there are people who disagree. They are selling plenty of them. Way more than the big three domestics had originally anticipated. I would say that with a couple more years to better the model and get some of the options that competition domestics offer, the Tundra will be taking quite a few domestic truck buying business. I think it's a good thing. Maybe then the domestics' lazy union mentality will wake up and actually try and "earn" business like the imports' non union labor force is having to do.
I still say support our country. The imports don't have a solid case of reliability advantage they once had 10 years ago. However, the domestic manufacturers customer service is terrible to say the least. The union mentality supports a "do less for more money" philosophy and I for one am sick of supporting those that are lazy and don't want to work for what they get. I have worked both sides and I have seen the lazy person climb the ladder through threats of litigation and strikes, etc. While hardworking, non union workers go to school in the evenings on their own time, many pay for it themselves, and all the while, still put in overtime for the same pay to "earn their way".
The need for unions in the US is long past. It's time to adopt the way's of the Japanese and build our country on hard work, not fear of litigations.
Well, I guess we'll agree to disagree about your statement that Chevy has a higher 1/2 ton tow rating than Ford. They are equal at 8800. Any of the big 3 could slap a 4.10 in the 1/2 but the market isn't there. The only person I see buying a 1/2 ton with the 4.10 would be someone who wants to put large tires on it since the large tires change the effective axle ratio. If they're going with tires big enough to want the larger axle ratio, It's not likely they are interested in towing 9,500 pounds. Actually, if I were planning to tow more than 7,000 pounds regularly, I'd move up to a 3/4 ton. If it was only a weekend here and there, I might stay with the 1/2 ton.
Just a thought on the what appears to be a large disparity between the Ford and Dodge V-10 tow ratings. Despite the Dodge and Ford being V-10s, they are designed very differently. Ford wasn't comfortable with the performance of their V-10 engine with the 4.10 axle ratios, so the V-10 comes with the 4.30.
It's probably not this simple, but I reverted back to my algebra of 20+ years ago and did an extrapolation of the difference between the Ford tow ratings with the 4.30 and the 3.73 to try to identify what the tow rating might be for a 4.10 axle ratio. I came up with the figure of 13,450. That puts it almost identical to the Dodge which is more in line with what the diesel figures show.
In my opinion, the Ford and Dodge tow ratings are pretty identical for the 3/4 and 1 ton trucks (just like the Ford and Chevy are in the 1/2 ton trucks IMO). I doubt you will find many people towing more than 13,000 pounds on a regular basis with a gas engine. The diesel engines are just better for towing those size loads.
The 13,500 also raises other questions. Are they beefing up the brakes, the frame, the electrical system (wiring harness doesn't count), the entire cooling system?
I got a 2000 Silverado brochure, they say they have large calipers and pads, but offer no sizes. They do require a heavier suspension package, but say nothing about the frame, electrical, or cooling (other than transmission cooling).
I'm sure someone will buy it because the 1/2 ton will be cheaper.
Man, this is a first. I am not too awful popular around here with my views, especially this particular topic area. So, thanks. I don't expect everyone to agree with all my opinions, just take them for what they are, opinions. When people respect my opinions, I find it easy to respect theirs. It's especially nice to find someone who actually even agrees with my opinion, however rare it may be.
you guys should work for a good company and then have it bought by Finns . They believe in a 2 - class system , the very rich and the poor worker ant . What all these foreigners could not win in war , they will win on the economic battlefront . I am not defending the autoworkers , just don't trash all unions because of them .
I totally agree with many of the sentiments expressed here about unions. If we could just disband all unions and pay everyone a maximum of $7 an hour,what a great continent we would have. Mind you, the anti-union people would have to pay $100,000 or more for their trucks because GM or Ford would only produce 100,000 or fewer units at a much higher (astronomical) cost. Why? Well, if workers in North America are not well paid, who will buy the millions of vehicles produced now? Mexicans? Third world consumers? We are all better off in the U.S and Canada because of what unions have won for their members and, for that matter, non-union workers as well. The only reason non-union plants pay as much as do is simply because their workers would unionize in order to get a decent living. Do our vehicles cost so much or are built so badly at times because of the greed and sloth of the workers in the plant? Where is the greed of management and stockholders in this equation? Have you not heard of automakers balancing the cost of a 10 cent part against the cost of a few lives on our highways? It seems to me that labour and management must take equal credit and equal blame for what is produced for our consumer-driven society. I may sound like a longwinded union apologist, but far from it. I just could not stand the drivel of some of the recent posts that take the attitude that they will be better off if only everybody else in this country gets less than they themselves want. I think its called "I'm alright, Jack . . .".
Brutus, I think GM will sell quite a of the half tons with the 4.10. the reason why: there's no penalty for the higher ratio. the GM engines aren't getting any worse fuel mileage. many dodge and ford folks don't like the torque curve of the new Vortec engines, but facts are they do pull like a demon (look at several towing test times) and they get substantially better fuel mileage. So if you get a half ton with a higher tow rating, better power, AND better mileage than Ford or Dodge offers, then mechanically the choice is easy. personal preferences aside.
its been posted several spots around here the GM's with the 4.10 getting almost identical mileage to those with 3.73.
kinda like your reasons current SD Ford vs GM c/k series. SD Ford has higher ratings, so you can't justify buying a GM for your needs.
Comments
There are recalls, recalls and recalls.
The first is when the manufacturer realizes that they made a mistake in design and issues a recall. These recalls are good, very good because it is a measure of corporate responsibility. Usually the service advisor runs my VIN through the computer and will schedule any recall or TSB when the truck is in for service.
The second recall is there is a problem and the NTSB forces or worse yet goes to court to force a recall. There are a few infamous recalls of this type and best left to discussion in other forums.
The third are single vehicle recalls. These work like this. The manufacturer called me to find out if I was happy with the vehicle, 4 or 5 years after purchase. My wife answered their questions with our dealer name and that I was having problems keeping the front end aligned and the paint was flaking. In about a week the dealer called asking to fix the front end at the manufacturers expense and offered a big discount on paint. It turned out that the paint was $200 for hood and roof with the tie rod, ball joints and the CC adjusters for free.
You could figure out what brand of vehicle we're talking about but that isn't relevant. What is really important is the manufacturer that jumps on the problem and solves the problem is perceived as a responsible corporation. The public generally rewards that corporation with repeat sales. The manufacturers that do not step up to their responsibility get trashed in forums like this one, the general press and in the broadcast media. Some manufacturers learn this very quickly, while others are stubborn and others still will never learn. (There are many in the latter category, motor vehicle and other products.)
What we don't see in the pure numbers are the things like voluntary, cattle prodded and court forced. The numbers don't show the severity of the recall. Things like incorrect stickers or labels are trivial and really are for the subsequent owners. The one that it took more than 125 pounds of pressure to apply the parking brake is serious but anyone could figure it out. While the lug nut issue is dangerous.
If I were making a purchase decision based upon recalls, I think that I would prefer to find many more recall notices at NTSB than that I heard about in the media.
Rich
regarding "civil discourse." If you continue with the bad attitudes, I'll put this topic on a "time out" for a week. Knock it off!
Front Porch Philosopher
SUV, Pickups, & Aftermarket and Accessories Host
You will always run into uncooperative dealers from any manufacturer, so I guess I've been fortunate. What I have found in my experience, though, is that when the dealer takes the time to make the call to Ford to find out what options are available, Ford is usually generous beyond what is required. I'm not saying Chevy doesn't do the same thing, because I don't have any experience with them. What I am saying is that, in my opinion, it's that kind of attitude from Ford that helps to create brand loyalty.
Also, the price was about 2k more than the Silverado and had many less available options. Most noteable was "no available locking diff".
There wasn't even a under-the-hood courtesy light.
How much cheaper can this truck be built and still sucker those that buy it?
Thanks for sharing your information and experiences on 3 types of recalls. I clearly understand the distinction between the first two you mentioned but hope you can provide a bit more info on the third. Did they actually issue a single vehicle recall for your vehicle or was this a good will repair/service. The more we (the consumers) understand the better position we are in when dealing with both manufacturers and dealers.
Rocles
I was wondering what the problem was and which repair was made to fix your car (vent fan automatically coming on). It sounds like it might have actually been safety related if it involved an electrical short?
Thanks,
Tony
As amazing as it sounds, the company called me asking for my opinion of my 4-5 year old truck. My wife spoke to them and said that I was having a lot of front end alignment problems and the paint was flaking. A week later, a service advisor at the local dealership is calling me to ask me to bring my truck in so that he can look at it. The dealer replaced the tie rod and some ball joints and gave me a very good discount on R/R of the paint. (It was cheaper than 1 Day paint and body's quote.)
I guess that is a one vehicle recall.
The other thing that I've noticed is that if there is a continuing problem it doesn't hurt to call the company's toll free number. Over the years, it has been amazing the response that you get. I've called quite a few, German, Japanese as well as the big three. I've always started the conversation with "Would you help me?" Once I even sent a dealer a bill for 'Automotive Consulting services.' The zone manager bought me lunch over that one and he laughed so hard that he cried as I was telling the story. (No, I never got paid but both the mechanic and the service advisor left the dealership within 3 months for places unknown.)
Rich
My wife's Olds had a "sensor chip" problem. This was story they told her. You're right, it may have been a short but the car does have a setting (like a thermostat) that controls interior climate and they claimed that it was the problem.
I've owned 4 trucks since 1979 (graduation from
HS) selling one truck to get another, 2 Toyotas
(1989 xcab 4x4 V6 & 1995 xcab 2x4 V6), 2 Chev's
(1972 Cheyenne Super V8 & 1999 Silverado). I LOVE
the build quality and reliability of the Toyotas
but on my last purchase (after spending two days of
vacation driving the Dodge, Ford, Chevy & Toyota I
narrowed it down to the Ford & Chevy, finally
deciding on the Chevy (because of all the negative
comments made about the 5.4L on the f150online
homepage. Best truck I've owned so far !! Was a little worried that I would be having problems, but so far so good. CR, like all forms of media needs to be taken in your decision making process only so much, apply common sense, your own experiences and other owners information.
Ford 1/2 tons are junk!
I'm sorry to rain on your parade..... Had you gone to www.gm.builds.junk.com or www.dodge.haters.com web pages you would have found equally nasty ranting and ravings about how bad Chevy/GMC/Dodge vehicles are. Is any of it true? It doesn't matter. You have to use the brain that god gave you and determine what's fact and who is grinding an axe.
Rich
Yes. We know. You hate Ford. Next? Give it a rest.
Roc
I still think that so far Ford has a better Heavy duty line, primarily the diesel. However, the 1/2 ton Ford trucks leave a lot to be desired. They may be rated higher in torque on paper and may even be winning 0-60 acceleration tests, etc. but the real world experience of driving both tells me that the Chevy 1/2 ton engines are better overall for towing and payload, especially at highway speeds.
I don't like "everything" about my new Silverado, but its a much better truck for light duty work than the F150.
Truth be known, I wish Ford would come up with something better as far as the 1/2 ton engines. I would more than likely go back to driving a Ford. I still don't like the new swoopy design though. I would probably get the regular duy F250. The body style is so much more appealing.
However, my 454 Chevy is still going strong after 262,000 miles.
be surprise to see a Chevy engine in a Ford truck.
Whom would have ever thought of seeing Mercedes
and Dodge being ONE company? As for post #621,
an issue of Motor Trend made a similar comment:
"..the perfect truck will be one with Dodge styling, GM engine and transmission, and a Ford
interior."(NOTE:Might not be exact wording, I
remember reading something VERY similar...anybody
remember the issue?)
Hmmmm...maybe a conversion shop can produce such
a vehichle? It's a possibility, since I know for
a fact there is a company in Texas that is putting
Hummer-like body style on top a Suburban
chasis.
They take an older model, solid front axle suburban drivetrain, then fab this "hummer-like" body onto it. The company got their start by building stunt "Hummers" for the movies.
I thought that the website was www.jurrasictrucks.com, but I couldn't seem to locate it. When I find the site, I'll post the address.
keith24
www.jurassictruck.com
You know, it helps to be able to spell at times.
keith24
I too was surprised to see a higher tow rating on the Chevy 1/2 tons than the Ford, because Ford seems to always over-rate their trucks' tow and payload ratings.
The Tundra's max tow rating is the 7,200 lbs you posted. All the Tundra's come with an oil cooler and 7,200 tow rating only comes if, like you mentioned, you purchase the tow package that includes a transmission oil cooler as well. However, even if your tow needs never will reach 7,200 lbs, why would anyone want to buy one? They have far less available creature comfort and offroad options and cost more money. I guess just like my preference to Chevy (at least for now), it's still just my opinion. Obviously there are people who disagree. They are selling plenty of them. Way more than the big three domestics had originally anticipated. I would say that with a couple more years to better the model and get some of the options that competition domestics offer, the Tundra will be taking quite a few domestic truck buying business.
I think it's a good thing. Maybe then the domestics' lazy union mentality will wake up and actually try and "earn" business like the imports' non union labor force is having to do.
I still say support our country. The imports don't have a solid case of reliability advantage they once had 10 years ago. However, the domestic manufacturers customer service is terrible to say the least. The union mentality supports a "do less for more money" philosophy and I for one am sick of supporting those that are lazy and don't want to work for what they get.
I have worked both sides and I have seen the lazy person climb the ladder through threats of litigation and strikes, etc. While hardworking, non union workers go to school in the evenings on their own time, many pay for it themselves, and all the while, still put in overtime for the same pay to "earn their way".
The need for unions in the US is long past. It's time to adopt the way's of the Japanese and build our country on hard work, not fear of litigations.
I'm off the soapbox now.
Just a thought on the what appears to be a large disparity between the Ford and Dodge V-10 tow ratings. Despite the Dodge and Ford being V-10s, they are designed very differently. Ford wasn't comfortable with the performance of their V-10 engine with the 4.10 axle ratios, so the V-10 comes with the 4.30.
It's probably not this simple, but I reverted back to my algebra of 20+ years ago and did an extrapolation of the difference between the Ford tow ratings with the 4.30 and the 3.73 to try to identify what the tow rating might be for a 4.10 axle ratio. I came up with the figure of 13,450. That puts it almost identical to the Dodge which is more in line with what the diesel figures show.
In my opinion, the Ford and Dodge tow ratings are pretty identical for the 3/4 and 1 ton trucks (just like the Ford and Chevy are in the 1/2 ton trucks IMO). I doubt you will find many people towing more than 13,000 pounds on a regular basis with a gas engine. The diesel engines are just better for towing those size loads.
I got a 2000 Silverado brochure, they say they have large calipers and pads, but offer no sizes. They do require a heavier suspension package, but say nothing about the frame, electrical, or cooling (other than transmission cooling).
I'm sure someone will buy it because the 1/2 ton will be cheaper.
-powerisfun
Take care.
I agree with you as well on the union issue. GASP!
Roc
We are all better off in the U.S and Canada because of what unions have won for their members and, for that matter, non-union workers as well. The only reason non-union plants pay as much as do is simply because their workers would unionize in order to get a decent living.
Do our vehicles cost so much or are built so badly at times because of the greed and sloth of the workers in the plant? Where is the greed of management and stockholders in this equation? Have you not heard of automakers balancing the cost of a 10 cent part against the cost of a few lives on our highways? It seems to me that labour and management must take equal credit and equal blame for what is produced for our consumer-driven society.
I may sound like a longwinded union apologist, but far from it. I just could not stand the drivel of some of the recent posts that take the attitude that they will be better off if only everybody else in this country gets less than they themselves want. I think its called "I'm alright, Jack . . .".
let's leave the pro/anti union politics at the door. Thanks.
Front Porch Philosopher
SUV, Pickups, & Aftermarket and Accessories Host
Hey, has anyone seen that new Cadillac truck yet? Saw it in Motor Trend and it looked a little wierd...
I think GM will sell quite a of the half tons with the 4.10. the reason why: there's no penalty for the higher ratio. the GM engines aren't getting any worse fuel mileage. many dodge and ford folks don't like the torque curve of the new Vortec engines, but facts are they do pull like a demon (look at several towing test times) and they get substantially better fuel mileage. So if you get a half ton with a higher tow rating, better power, AND better mileage than Ford or Dodge offers, then mechanically the choice is easy. personal preferences aside.
its been posted several spots around here the GM's with the 4.10 getting almost identical mileage to those with 3.73.
kinda like your reasons current SD Ford vs GM c/k series. SD Ford has higher ratings, so you can't justify buying a GM for your needs.
please continue these discussions in Silverado/Sierra vs F-150. Thanks.
Front Porch Philosopher
SUV, Pickups, & Aftermarket and Accessories Host