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Comments
See, scott! I told you it was the dealer refusing to offer the VPP, and not Infiniti!
Better backseat room than Lexus
Better pricing and reliability (based on Infiniti record) than BMW
More power and better looking than Caddy CTS
More power than Lexus
Inferior steering feel compared to Miata ( fun rotation? )
Auto tranny, unlike Lexus
Equivalent ride to Mercedes 320
D***! Sounds like a pretty good car! Those of us coming from more traditional sedans are real happy. And yes, I've bought one, just waiting for delivery.
Babylou
How can you rate a Miata - 10
Talk about waiting for a Mazda Rx-8
and then mention the Lincoln in the same breath?
Are you sure that you test drove the G35?
And MSRP for an M3 is a ripoff. The dealership is entitled to a few hundred over invoice and whatever they get for holdback. Anything else is wrong. Same for a Ferrari, Porsche, whateva. I'm not paying a middle-man thousands of dollars for doing nothing but holding my car until I drive away with it.
Once I get my house (which I hope will be found in the next few months considering I've been looking for 4 months now), then hopefully the G will be selling for reasonable prices and I can plunk down on the first car to catch my eye since the first time I drove one with a blue and white badge on the hood.
As I sat in the car my impression was ok regarding materials and fit and finish. But not up to the quality feel of the Lexus or BMW. The ergonomics especially the switchgear was not up to par with the Lexus. It was kind of non descript, not a lot of character on the inside. Even with the titanium and the wood is also cheap looking. And finally the engine compartment was also not as attractive as the competition, it was not as organized. I just came away feeling that the there is a reason for the lower cost relative to the competition. The doors do not close with the solid feeling that you get in the competition.
I could definately justify buying this car for the base price of $27,000.00. And of course I would wait 6 months so I could buy it for $25,000.00. Given the drive train that would be an exceptional value.
I also saw the new Nissan 350 Z which looked very nice in person and the Mercedes 2003 500 SL which was attracting a lot of attention.
Cant wait to see pictures of the new G35 coupe in the next couple of weeks in the upcoming auto shows.
Like I said, whatever floats your boat. As for the M3, I think it's a bargain for what they charge for it. 911 level performance for $25k less.
baby: Where did you find a sport suspension to test drive? All the dealers I've called (in So Cal anyway) tell me they will not have any STS in house for another 10 days. Also, none of them have summer tires - all are all season.
HiC
Why are you so concern about "other" people's opinion or the "real" reviews in C&D and R&T? Why don't you get your lazy rear off the couch and go test drive it yourself. Your opinion is the only one that matters!
Anyway, I didn't ever get all those details about the lease thing, so I guess they were just giving me a "ballpark" answer without working up a lot of stuff. I don't think that's for me anyway, I'll probably end up doing upgrades or some customization.
Scott
7. Lexus IS300. Fun!
6. Cadillac CTS & BMW 330. Above average.
5. Lincoln LS & BMW 540. Average.
4.5. Infiniti G35 & MB320. Commuter car feel.
1. SUV. (another reference point)
That's too funny! Please tell Mazda how "zoom zoom" it is with the Miata.
Being a "sports car driver" does not qualify you as "Mr Know It All". Now, what kind of car you drive again?
apples to orange friend. A house is an appreciating asset (and in southern CA a major one at that) while a car almost always depreciates. Certainly over a decade a car will be worthless while if all else fails the car is worth at least what you paid for it.
>> Or does the concept of market value not count for cars (and cars only) in your mind? <<
Market value of a car, well it is after all just a CAR. and if the middleman paid X dollars for his G, then I won't pay X dollars plus his 3k handling fee. That's unreasonable. He did nothing to warrant that extra fee. There's almost always a dealer somewhere else that will meet my demands and if not, then I gotta accept if said product is worth that added cost (personal valuation is the common term). At the moment a G35, the best car available under 35k in my book, isn't worth more than 4-500 dollars over invoice. I'm giving the dealer a bit more cream than I normally would offer (usually 100-200). Will someone sell me one right now for that? Heck no. Would I try to buy one right now for that? Nope. I'd rather keep my credit clean for a bit.
>>Therefore Neither invoice or MSRP set the value of an object - car or otherwise. The market sets the price (just like for your house).<<
Somewhat true but my willingness to play the game is the other side of the equation. Knowing that the prices will fall on the cars, I'll wait thanks. While knowing a house will generally increase, I'll take the plunge and build equity and at the least have a better tax write-off than my car offers.
>> If you don't like the market price for something then don't buy it.<<
Never said I wanted to buy one this week or month and found myself put out over price. Where did you get that?
>> But please don't whine about it either; that's the way markets work.<<
You go ahead and quote this so-called whining, bub. I never said, "boo hoo, I won't pay MSRP for a G35 and I desperately want one. Those wascally dealers are sucking the life outa me." Far from it. I acknowledged the demand and my situation. When I have my ducks in a row and I see the G35 at my personal valuation, it will be mine.
>> If enough people don't like the market price, it goes down with falling demand. <<
Golly ya think. LOL
>>And yes, houses can do that too. Just ask anyone in CA who bought one in 1990 how they felt in 1995.<<
Ask anyone who bought one in 96 and sold in 2002 in San Diego.
Go bug someone else. I did no whining. Unless you're a car salesman, in which case, you were probably offended and I don't give a hoot. There is only one thing on earth more useless than a car salesman: a politician. Well, maybe two things if you include the cast of Friends.
BTW, I think Canadian paid TOO MUCH for their car. For those in the high tech field, please consider that senior engineer with 5-10 years experence gotten paid more than US$100k a year in the silicon valley. While Canadian senior engineer with 15-20 years experience only got paid for C$100k a year(very few as far as I know). With the exchange rate, would anyone in the valley want to take a big pay cut and move to Vancouver?
BTW, this 36k G35 musta been a loaded Nav model? A good friend just picked up his G35 with premium, moonroof and xenons for 33k and he couldn't find an auto 330i with those bits and pieces for anywhere near that price. He could find a 325, but that's a major step backward.
Available to employees of Nissan vendors.
Gs of their money can get certainly more muscle than the G35. But there is a reason people will pay about the same price for a "lowly" 325i with the goodies. They really don't care you have a bigger er...engine.
A G35 is not a BMW wannabees left overs. But there's a lot of sentiment on this board to that effect.
Ken
Some of you might appreciate one comment: "The only other complaint noted that this Lexus has a prop-rod to hold up the rather heavy hood instead of struts."
Actually, I recently went over the list of "standard features" and saw a safety kit or med kit or something. Does anyone know what it is or where it is? It was not something I noticed at the autoshow, but since the battery was disconnected too it was probably removed so it did not get liberated from the show.
Scott
-Advertising
-Cost of money (interest)
-Salespeople
-rent
-taxes
-Insurance, telephones, etc., etc.
As a business, how in the world do you expect them to make a living at $200 over invoice 'for holding your car for a few days'
I don't know what you do for a living but if you apply that theory to any business, it would equal bankruptcy.
I have a different outlook then you . . . but then again who am I to talk, I paid sticker price for a Honda Odyssey and I only got $1,000 of msrp for my 330Ci . . . To me, it's ok for the other guy to make a living . . . Because if they don't, then I'm not going to have an opportunity to buy such excellent vehicles because they will be out of business.
So I've been there - done that, and now I would like a little more performance and not give up too much on the luxury side. I'm not sure that I want to spend the $$ for a 330. Besides, I like to change things up after 3 years. For me the G35 fits the bill perfectly. Plus, I believe it's actually less expensive than a similarly equipped 325! (I'm getting one with the premium package for less than 33K). I'll be buying the G35 as soon as this weekend.
www.freshalloy.com and www.caranddriver.com , members from those boards also have very positive reviews on the car. its not that gabman and others are or may be salesman...
Poe and Mark Danielewski
Hey Pretty
(Mark)
Cari suggested we go out for a drive in her new two door BMW coupe. In the parking lot we slipped into her bucket seats. Cari took over from there. At nearly 90 miles per hour she zipped us up to that windy edge known to some as mullholand, a sinous road running the ridge of the Santa Monica mountains, where she then proceeded to pump her vehicle in and out of turns. Sometimes dropping to 50 miles per hour, only to immediately gun it back up to 90 again. Fast, slow, fast, fast, slow. Sometimes a wide turn, sometimes a quick one. She preferred the tighter ones, the sharp controlled jerks swinging left to right, before driving back to the right, only so she could do it all over again. Until after enough speed and enough wind and more distance then i'd been prepared to expect, taking me to places in the city i rarely think of and never visit.
(Poe)
Hey Pretty
Don't you want to take a ride with me?
Through my world
Hey Pretty
Don't you wanna kick and slide?
Through my world
http://ifeel.diaryland.com/heypretty.html
I mentioned what I drive and my preferences so everyone understands my veiwpoint not to insinuate that I am some sort of expert. I never said the G35 was a bad car or a good car. I simply compared the handling and said this would be a deciding factor for ME, along with cost and size.
Few buyers want a true drivers car. That's fine. I do want a true driver's car and unfortunately the G35 is not tuned to be so.
For the other questions: I have had several Miatae, a Porsche Boxster and drive an S2000 regularly. All good handling cars. For the guy that cracked on Miatas; it is universally known as one of the best handling cars ever built. Obviously you have not driven one. The G35 I tested was in Houston and I do not know what tires were on it just that it was leather with sports suspension. And yes Gabman, you should buy a shifter kart to learn how to drive better and have a great time. They allow you to explore the limits of handling that you can seldom do on the street without cracking up your car. With this exploration you will learn how to truly drive a car and not just ride in a car. You will be amazed at how much your improved skills translate to the street. I was.
Poe and Mark Danielewski
Hey Pretty
(Mark)
Cari suggested we go out for a drive in her new two door BMW coupe. In the parking lot we slipped into her bucket seats. Cari took over from there. At nearly 90 miles per hour she zipped us up to that windy edge known to some as mullholand, a sinous road running the ridge of the Santa Monica mountains, where she then proceeded to pump her vehicle in and out of turns. Sometimes dropping to 50 miles per hour, only to immediately gun it back up to 90 again. Fast, slow, fast, fast, slow. Sometimes a wide turn, sometimes a quick one. She preferred the tighter ones, the sharp controlled jerks swinging left to right, before driving back to the right, only so she could do it all over again. Until after enough speed and enough wind and more distance then i'd been prepared to expect, taking me to places in the city i rarely think of and never visit.
(Poe)
Hey Pretty
Don't you want to take a ride with me?
Through my world
Hey Pretty
Don't you wanna kick and slide?
Through my world
http://ifeel.diaryland.com/heypretty.html
It's pic #4. http://www.motorcities.com/contents/01GHH083144264.html
my car: http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/scotth501/vwp?.dir=/OtherPhotos&.src=ph&.dnm=300ZX-3.jpg&.view=t&.done=http%3a// photos.yahoo.com/bc/scotth501/lst%3f%26.dir=/OtherPhotos%26.src=ph%26.view=t
hopefully those links work, with a little editing of my own link.
Scott
gabman, Just ignore babyblue's rude remarks. It is not even worth responding.
G35 is not a car for the BMW wannabe crowd; it's a car for the anti-BMW crowd.
1. Multiple people have said that one should never own a BMW out of warranty - in my mind that makes this vehicle crap - I do not currently have the money to switch cars every 2-3 years or fork over thousands extra to keep the car working in the manner it was designed for to make it last 5 or more years. Our Chevy p/u was built in 1981 and while it is no luxury ride, it has required relatively minor repair work to go over 300,000 miles.
2. Some have said the G is better than a BMW based solely on numbers. I agree if all you want to do drag race. But, I am more interested in how the car makes me feel. If I can go 0-60 in 4 seconds but don't like the interior or how the car steers, big whoopie. Drive a car for 30 minutes, and if your cheeks hurt from smiling too much get it.
3. Limited debate on dealers making money. From my very limited experience (=2 car purchases), the dealers aren't hurting. I got the car just over invoice, but they only did that if I financed through them at a ridiculous rate. Refinancing is a beautiful thing. I don't have a problem with them making ~$1000 overall on the purchase (long or short term), but I'll be a bit more stubborn next time.
4. There is an Acura TL-S vs G35 forum, can somebody please set up a BMW vs G35 one? I'm new here and am not entirely sure of how to do it (haven't looked actually).
5. Forgive my ignorance, but where did that song come from? Don't recognize the artists or lyrics.
Sorry about the length...
Oh and Alan, I'm glad you like dealerships. Somebody has to! They make cash on the holdback too, so they're getting more than my $200 over invoice on a typical car purchase. Plus they get paid for warranty work and if I'm stupid enough to take it to them for out-of-warranty work, they'll make a killing. Everybody knows dealerships make the majority of their cash in service. Sales is there to get you into the cash cow: the car. As for paying for advertising, salesmen, insurance, buildings, etc...that's the cost of doing business and not my problem as a consumer. My concern is not if that establishment survives but if that establishment can get me the goods I desire at the best rate. If they go under, someone will replace them. They always do.
I call the consumer HOTLINE asking for INFINITI to cover half the cost. Of course they said, it was just to far out of warranty to offer assistance. I didn't expect them to, but figured it couldn't hurt to try. He did however offer me a $1000 on the purchase of any new Infiniti. I ended up getting a new G20t (should have waited for the G35), faxed him my sales agreement, and three days later, I was cashing my check.
Infiniti customer service is fantastic. I've never ever had a problem. The maintenance dept doesnt push stuff on you, and actually recommends doing the little stuff yourself to defray costs. I just call her after an oil change, and she enters it in the computer. Last week I needed a rotate and balance...$59. Instead, she hands me a coupon for $19 at Merchants Tire.
And while I was there talking to my sales person, in casual conversion, I mentioned something about needing to get a new hat...and as I'm getting into my car...she comes running up w/ a new blue one. I tell you their GREAT!
And now the G35! I've never traded in a car that I didn't own out right...but after the test drives...I'm getting the G35. Just bluffing for a month or so.
racerxxx1: that's pretty much what I thought, my Z has been pretty nice to me. Although, I know a lot of the aftermarket stuff are ripoffs. A couple of the guys in a Z forum I read were looking for short-throw shifters and discovered the same part number for both the 300ZX and 240SX -- with the Z part priced at a little above double the cost. I'm sure the same thing will happen with G35 vs Altima parts and upgrades. You just have to try to keep them honest, which can be a trick since some like to lie to your face.
Scott
Reliability: I need to speak up on this one, first off i owe no allegiance to any car company and ive owned infiniti and now BMW. Initial quality of Infiniti was great but dont kid youself on parts many Japanese Honda, Nissan, Toyota are VERY expensive down the road, when repairs are needed . Why do you think the Honda/Toyota have the highest theft of all cars ? Expensive Parts...
BMW : There is no evidence the current E46 has any reliabilty problems. Matter a fact its pretty much rock solid. The only cost i see is Brakepads/Rotors and that is a wear item far as im concerned and not a "reliablity problem"
Thats all for now
DL
You are right to some extent. Comparisons are in the eyes of the beholder. I HAVE driven the 330i, and the G35. Other then raw power, no MAJOR differences except price. I thought the G35 edged it in handling, comfort, acceleration, and roominess. Bimmer wins with interior tid-bits (but the leather had "cheap" like feel).
I just priced out the 330i w/ same options of G35 I'm getting (Prem pkg, Sprt pkg, Moonroof). BMW 330i=MSRP $41,200...G35=MSRP $33,240. I include price when comparing vehicles as well.
When I said the G35 "crushes" the 3er's. I was refering to the total package (ie..additional $8K). Not just "performance" as you put it. When I said, "blows" the doors off, I was refering to what the G35 would do to that 3er at the red light. A little animated I admit, but just having some fun.
I also agree the 5er in more luxury category, but was amazed how the BMW fans started throwing that comparison around.
For the "wannabe" expression...just a poor choice of words on my part.
It's obvious your an intelligent consumer, and I think you too, have a tough time justifying the extra cash....When do you pick up your G35?
Check out my post #2742...does you BMW dealer treat you like that? Infiniti resale has me baffled though. I have typically taken advantage of it by buying 2 years used, and I'm going to get soaked w/ my trade, but I want the G. I also love the fact, I can drive down the road for days, and not pass another Infiniti. G35 might change that to some degree, but hopefully not too much. BMW are like HONDA's, you see them everywhere, and are expensive after 4 year warranty is gone.
I've rambled enough...take care.
You one of those guys that tosses out lines like, "If you don't buy this car today I lose my job?" or "I've got a family to feed"? I've had those thrown at me when helping myself or others to new cars. In the immortal words of Mr. White, "Learn to type."
I readily admit that Infiniti sales guys generally impress me. I was just on the lot Monday and the guy was one cool cat. He knew his stuff about the G35 and that impressed me to no end. Better still, he knew the competition. Very nice guy, low pressure, astute, articulate, etc. He was so nice my friend bought a G35 from him that very day. In fact, of all the makes, Infiniti usually has the best staff on their lots.
BUT, here's the ubiquitous caveat, for me a sales person is useless. I know the car inside and out, I know the comp and I really don't want to bother with idle chit-chat or listen to the pitch. I'd prefer if we could hand a person at the front desk our wallet, credit cards, etc and then take the car out alone for 15-20 minutes. After the drive, return the car and then go home/back to work to fire off emails to the online sales reps.
BTW, I understand business (I happened to attend business school) and if I'm running a business I want to make maximum profit while hopefully providing the best customer service customers have experienced (assuming I'm manufacturing/selling a niche or upscale good). Good CRM goes a long, long way and can often make up for high prices (look at the big boys in the auto industry, MB/Lexus/Infiniti, etc). Make cash and make the experience so pleasant that the rubes'll keep coming back. I get it. Doesn't mean I want to return the favor to other companies though.
Take it easy.
Can you ask your silicon valley friend (or is it you?), the following.
A) How far and how long must he travel on a daily basis to get to his Job.
C) How much would he pay for Car insurance if he were to get a new G35.
D) What does he pay in rent or what did his home cost him?
The point is this, I pay cad $ 700.00 (Us $443.00) in car insurance, I drive 10 mins to get to work, can go anywhere in my city in 20 mins.
I have this nifty little credit card with my picture on it, that allows me to visit any doctor, seek any type of medical attention at any hospital and never see a bill for services rendered, for this I pay $700.00 a year (us$ 443.00). Should I need a bypass, or my wife is delivering a child, no problem, click click of my credit card and the bill goes to our government.
If your analogy was about some guy living in Ohio or Vermont , ok, point may be taken but you are comparing one the most expensive places in the USA to live.
Your Californian engineer had better be earning more than double of what the Canadian engineer is earning to have the same standard of living as we have here.
P.S. Gabman your first reviews on the G35 were so positive that I thought for sure you were a salesman trying to hype the G35. After your post about getting $900 off MSRP you are obviously not a salesman. I look forward to taking a test drive in the next few weeks and hope my impressions of the car are as favorable as yours!
Yeahh...G35 is for anti-BMW folks! That's me. I'm keeping that extra $5-8 K in my pocket, waving as I drive by them.
GABMAN...FYI, I quit reading keithlca comments a long time ago. You've tolerated the car talk, but he didn't need to go talking about your country. Simply ignore, and drive on! I'm sure their are still a couple people in your area who haven't seen your new G.
Gabman
P.S. ( let you in on a little secret, am not to fond of car salesmen, however there are a few decent ones left.)
PEARSOND
Thanks, not so much that I am in defense of my country, just can't handle ingorance. He also mentioned in his post that if the U.S. engineer were to move to Canada and earn 100k after exchange it would only be $60k, what he fails to understand is if this guy was indeed living in Canada and earning C$100k , He would be living in our economy making 100k and being able to spend 100k. I don't know whatever made him think that this guy would have to convert his $$ back to us $, strange.....
Have a good day
Kelley's Blue Book.com has it for over a month. They should be ashamed to let that site beat them to the punch. I prefer E, and visit the site daily, but they need to stay on top of their game.
I thought that was hilarious because it needed $3500 to fix failed ABS. He did the typical 5min walk around, and never asked about anything else, so I never felt obligated to mention it. That was actually the reason I was trading it in vice private sale. I would be ethically obligated to disclose that to a private buyer.
Why am I'm telling you all this?
I think to try and make myself feel better when I go in to negotiate the G35 price. Knowing he knows I'll be trading in my 2001 G20t. Can you say ouchh.
Then again--taking into account all incentives/rebates I received for the 01 G20t ie...
($1500 factory to dlr incentive/$500 customer rebate/$500 return customer rebate, and the $1000 from customer service folks), I should still come out ahead.
I know what you mean about the cost pricing stuff and supply / demand for the hot ones. This will be my 3rd purchase from them, and I'm hoping that produces some savings. If they still won't budge, I'm waiting them out. I am driving a 2001, and shouldn't even be considering the G35 this soon into my purchase...but I can't help myself!
I have written my magical number on the palm of my hand, and absolutely refuse to pay a penny over it. Which is about $2K under MSRP. Seems insane I know, but she has already tipped her hand a bit when she called inviting me to test drive. "If you like it, I might be able to get you in for $1200 over cost". Then again...Infiniti sales people are nice, but their still sales people. I'll keep you posted.