Experience with suspension bushings, anyone? I have heard some are more worthwhile to put in than others. Will they all squeak in a years time no matter how well you grease them up?
Anyone know about how much I should spend on an alignment? About $45? What about buying a "lifetime alignment" deal? I may not do this, though, because I am going to college next year and the contract may not be valid elsewhere.
Polyurethane bushings are actually very controversial. I 've had auto-x pros and champs tell me that I don't need them, and a few others told me to go for them although they were the minority. For daily driven cars they 're NOT recommended by the majority. They 'll make your ride bumpy and noisy depending on which ones you upgrade. Many have told me that every anomaly and small bump on the road gets transformed to a big thump with LCA poly bushings. Besides that they do squeak, they can also affect your handling depending on your suspension mods. One guy back in '99-00 that auto-xed his Integra LS (didn't see him last year), told me that with rear LCA ES poly bushings, his car would fishtail and the rear of the car got very bumpy and stiff. He had Neuspeed Sports with Illuminas and 19mm Neuspeed sway bar. So I 'm very skeptical about them. One other guy got trailing arm bushings and said he had to bring down the firmness a lot on the Konis because the tail got very "loose". So as far as I 'm concerned I 've kind of ruled out Control Arm bushings. The ITR has some nice huge LCA rubber bushings that are much bigger than GSR's. I wouldn't mind having those but they don't fit on GSR LCAs. Now front sway bar poly bushings are usually worth it, and result in quicker steering response. Forget about shock bushings. They too reduce ride comfort by a lot. Similar with poly motor mounts - noisy! A lot of these bushings are fine for drag racing and probably some road racing but you 'll have to be careful how you set up everything, especially the shocks when upgrading LCA & trailing arm bushings. Now this is what people have told me that I meet at the racing events. Maybe others might tell you differently but I think poly bushings affect your suspension according to the mods you have. As far as wheel alignments go, NOT every shop wills set the toe they way you want it. Most shops will tell you that they 'll set it according to factory specs. Some see it as an opportunity to make more money and charge you more for a "custom" wheel alignment. So shop around and tell them that might ask them for some toe out settings once in a while. You also have a camber kit so I assume you 'd want them to adjust those too. They may charge more for that as well. Around here wheel alignments range from $39.95 when someone is running a special and up to $69.95.
'99 Integra GSR '06 Civic LX coupe '11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive '13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
you should see how many of your posts I have marked in my folder of posts . This last one I titled "The Word on Bushings."
Now I have heard quite a bit about the Z10 Radius Arms that supposedly give you no wheel hop, better cornering, and better braking. Do you recommend them?
Check out this track video of my friend in his GS-R at his last track event (he is the red teg that zooms in about 10 sec into the video). Worth watching, pretty good technique:
Oh yeah, and an urgent question for you: do you know if a Neuspeed lower tie bar will fit on my ITR rear sway? I can get one for pretty cheap and would like to know if it is worth it as far as the gains in handling. Thanks a lot.
I don't know if that is the word on bushings, but I just relayed to you what I 've heard from people I 've talked to. Basically when it comes to a daily driver you have to be careful with bushings. I 'm not too familiar with the Z10 radius arms but there are other similar products out there. Basically they were designed for drag racing but it looks like they 're starting to make them so they benefit handling too. I 'm skeptical of all these bars because they add weight to the car, plus 2 bars would kick me out of Street Prepared. I remember from reading the rules that I 'm allowed to install 1 bar between the motor and the firewall or chassis and it has to connect on a stock mount or point. So I think I 'm out of luck as far these bars go to stay in DSP. A couple of the racing shops I 've been to had custom bars like that and also brand name ones. I will have to check into these Z10 arms and see if it would kick me out of SP and how much they weigh. These are normally not that cheap. The 2 similar "arms" a race shop was selling were $375 plus installation. That's about what 2 LCAs cost. Anyway, I 'll go watch that video. I hope it's not huge. I 'm still on a 53k dialup connection.
'99 Integra GSR '06 Civic LX coupe '11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive '13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
that was long! I downloaded and watched about 50% (like 16MB) of it. Good stuff. I wonder what kind of car that was with the camera in it. In the beginning the Integra passed him like he was standing still but then it couldn't pull away. I also never saw the guy with the camera downshift so he might 've had an automatic which explains why he was passed at the start? Both cars had almost no body roll so no doubt they had some serious spring rates.
'99 Integra GSR '06 Civic LX coupe '11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive '13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
is there any spring that gives a higher spring rate without lowering the car? I like the eibach prokit spring rates of 450lb/in in front and 171-257lbs/in in the back, but I don't want to drop my car that low. Thanks for any advice.
I'm not sure of any stock-height springs that have higher spring rates, but you could probably accomplish the same thing by ordering custom spring rate coilovers from Ground Control. The coilovers give you an adjustable ride height, and then you can order whatever spring rates you want. Pretty reasonable price, too - about $340. That's what I'm going to try to do this year... tho I still need to negotiate this year's racing budget with the wifey...
The coilovers from Ground Control are just sleeves that go around the shock, right? If so, I've heard, from somewhere, that the sleeves crack and break, the threads strip, blah blah. Anyway, what I'm trying to say is, will they be up to the challenge of auto-xing or aggressive canyon carving? Oh, yeah. Where is ground control? Thanks.
Harry, is the two bar rule inclusive of strut bars and sway bars? Have I done anything to endanger my Street Prepared grouping? What are the most popular things to do in this class?
www.ground-control.com Definitely no problem with quality. Really good customer service. They will help you out with what you want to do with your car as far as handling and sell a durable, quality product. I plan to get them after I wear out my Tokicos.
in last August. I live in a Apartment ( a gated community in Phoenix with security guard etc). When I came out to go to work in the morning the car was missing. Cops called me back by around 12.30 in the afternoon and told me that they found the car.
Luckily for me Insurance decided to Total the car and I was able to buy it back from the Insurance. Insurance people were not so keen on selling back the Totaled car to me. I got it checked at the local dealership to make sure that everything except the whole interior is in place. You never know what these guys will do to your car in a couple of hours!!!
My previous insurance company ( American Express)will not insure Salvaged Restore cars so I had to change insurance. Insurance rates are based on the model year of the car so I am paying the same premium as I would have paid to a "NORMAL" GSR sedan. One funny thing I realized lately is that if the car is stolen again they might decide the value of the car based on the Salvage title.
From what I've heard, GC has an excellent reputation among autocrossers and road racers. As I mentioned earlier, I plan on getting them myself, and Harry has considered getting them as well. Also, many, many folks at H-T.com (and I'm not talking about the pleebs who hang out on the Integra forum, I'm talking about the people who really know what they're talking about on the Competition forum) use them for the track on dedicated race cars. If they can handle the abuse dished out there, they'll be fine for everyday and autocross use.
No, the 2 bar rule applies to "drag racing" bars that go from the motor to the chassis. They 're used to reduce wheel spin and torque steer. Some go from the front of the motor to the front piece of the chassis, behind your bumper. I don't think you 've done anything to change your SP status. If you go with bigger brakes though, that 'll put you in a Modified class.
'99 Integra GSR '06 Civic LX coupe '11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive '13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
You will still need aftermarket shocks to accomodate the Ground Control Coilovers, which like everyone else said can be set for stock height. Lowering it 1/2" or so though won't hurt anything but will only help with handling as the car will have a lower center of gravity. Look at the Type-R. It's .6" lower than GSR from the factory. Even if you get the Prokit with Koni Sports, you can always raise the car with the Koni shocks. You can go up at about .75" increments but that might change the spring characteristics which are meant to compress, not the other way around. People have done it though, especially with race springs that lower the car an avg. of 2.5". BTW, the Eibach Prokit for Integra has the following spring rates: 331F/126-194R. I got this from Eibach about 1-2yrs ago in an e-mail from their Tech Support. They also e-mailed me the Sportline spring rates which are 460F/174-257R which I was surprised to hear. The Sportlines have a bigger drop but it's not too popular especially by auto-xers because of the huge difference front & rear. This configuration will make an Integra understeer even more when pushed. It's not good at all to have 200lb stiffer springs in the front than the rear ones in a FWD car. This was part of the reason I didn't go with Eibach springs for my car. My H&R Sports only have a 20% difference between front and rear which is the lowest of all the "sports" springs out there and even some race springs. Mine are 276F/220R (I think 160-220 progressive in the rear). I wanted F&R to be as close as possible (look at ITR: 246lb/in. all around).
'99 Integra GSR '06 Civic LX coupe '11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive '13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
The rules for SP talk about camber plates mounted at the top of the strut tower as a means to adjust camber, but they make no mention of the kind of camber kits we need to use on our upper control arms for camber adjustment. As I understand it, camber plates work well for cars with McPhearson struts, but that doesn't do us any good 'cause we don't have that on our cars. So, as far as the rules go, if the rules do not expressly allow something, then it's not allowed. Harry is more expert about this than I, so he might be able to shed more light on the subject. As far as radius arms go, I haven't been paying too close attention to the discussion you and Harry have had about this, and I'm not really sure what they are or do, so I can't help you there...
Noone I know uses camber plates on Civics or Integras. I 've been told numerous times that camber kits will kick me out of DSP so I 've found out from many people in SP classes that they get custom wheel alignments where they adjust the toe until they get the desired camber #s. In some cases, like mine, it is not necessary to go with costly custom wheel alignments because the lowering springs give you more negative camber by design. Toe does change camber though, so if you can adjust for toe out for better handling, you can achieve desired camber settings as well. I let my drop dictate the camber settings and luckily for me after the shocks & springs settled for good (about a 1.3" drop), my camber settings are right at the "factory" limit on the negative side. Even if they were slightly more negative I wouldn't mind because I don't drive the car as much and use it mostly for racing and driving to and from the races. Many auto-xers I 've talked to also seem to agree that the most beneficial drop for our Integras as far as auto-x goes, is between 1.3 and 1.75". When I get the coilovers I will probably set them for a 1.5" drop and then wait till they settle and check the camber & toe. The 2 Tegs with coilovers that beat me auto-xing, had exactly a 2 finger gap which is about a 1.75" drop. My drop right now is about 2.5 fingers (that 's my fingers, don't know about anyone else's..). So my goal is to set the coilovers when and if I get them for another .25" drop and hopefully it won't be more than an additional 1/2" after they settle. So Harry's goal is an extra 1/2" drop overall with some 400-450lb coilovers. Not sure exactly how that will affect the camber or toe but toe can be corrected if it's way off. Hopefully the camber can be affected a little by the toe adjustments to produce more desireable #s if it's too wacky. BTW, there are many illegal auto-xers out there with camber kits. 1 club I race at found some people with camber kits and bumped them up. This was only after some drivers complained so in the next event they found 4 cars that made no mention of camber kits. I was surprised to see different classifications on these car because I was used to seeing them in SP classes. One of them used to be in a stock class and was doing really well! Another regional SCCA club I always go to doesn't seem to care and when I brought it up one time (because the owner of the "illegal" car had told me of the camber kit only after I asked) they said, if he doesn't take 1st or 2nd place all the time they won't make an issue of it. But if he only wins once in a while it's ok. I think that 's BS. Rules are rules. They do it a lot with cross drilled rotors too or aftermarket calipers. They let them slide almost every time. I don't associate with those drivers at all that are aware they should be in a higher class but make no mention to the tech inspectors of those "illegal" mods and sometimes ask the tech guys to let them go to a lower class because that's all the mods they have or they can't compete in higher class, etc. I 'm sure in Divisionals or National championship events this stuff doesn't slide. Most of the time these people go unoticed because they don't mention it and rarely does a tech inspector look at those things at regional events. They usually just do a safety inspection.
'99 Integra GSR '06 Civic LX coupe '11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive '13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
In a tangent off of your answer, is camber at all four corners a good thing? Because I know I have some neg. camber from the springs (1.5") and I put in some washers in the rear on the rear upper control arms to make it more neutral in the rear. I did this thinking that I want grip (neg. camber) in the front and less grip (neg. camber) in the back. Is my logic wrong in thinking that neg. camber in the back will hurt my car's ability to rotate? Please set me straight on this issue.
Also, some dumb questions about autox organizations: Where do I go to find out about Solo II events in my area? What is NASA about? What is the first organization I need to get into? How much does an SCCA membership cost? Can't I just borrow a helmet my first time?
I can't make up my mind on the springs I want to get. Actually this time, I have a technical question. When a spring has a rate of lets say, 200 lbs/in and the car can go down 4 inches on a hard turn or hard braking, does that mean that the car is exerting 800lbs on the spring? The reason I ask is so I can figure out how much play I have in the room between the wheel well and the tire. Also, does neuspeed have a good reputation when it comes to their springs? Thanks.
Check out the following linke to help you find which division/region you're in. Did you say you lived in TX? If so, they've got several active regional SCCA clubs in your area. This link should help you out: http://www.scca.org/getstarted/divisions.html
I think SCCA-Solo II annual dues are something like $45, but given your age they might have a discounted rate. It's all on their website: www.scca.org
NASA = the North American Sportscar Association (if I've got that right?) and they are a sanctioning body for road racing, HPDE (high performance drivers education, i.e., driving schools) and competition licensing. Whether or not you have high aspirations to become a roadracer, I'd start with the SCCA solo program. It's a reasonably priced membership, and solo II is the most "affordable" racing you can get into. Any and all experience you gain in Solo II will serve you well if your dreams and wallet take you into the world of wheel-to-wheel racing.
You might becoming a little too obsessed about this spring rate thing...;-) First of all, I am in no way a suspension guru, but I can clear up a few simple things for you -- First, spring rates are measured in foot-pounds, not pounds per inch. So, if a spring has a rate of 400 ft/lbs., then in theory it takes 400 lbs. of weight/force to compress it one foot. But we all know that all/most street car do not have any where close to one foot of available suspension travel. On the car, the amount of spring compression you get is determined by, among other things, the spring rate and how short/long that spring is, the suspension geometry, and the shock absorber's compression damping rate. More important than the calculation you're trying to figure out is how much you lower the car with a given spring. Because suspension travel is soooo important on our cars (Civics & Tegs) general rule of thumb is not to lower any corner more than 1.5-1.75" Those slammed cars that are lowered 3-4" do not handle well at all. If you're worried about rubbing problems, then stay with a 15" wheel and get what Harry has, some H&R OE sport springs -- they have one of the mildest drops (~.75") and pretty even spring rates for the fronts and rears. They would be an excellent choice for you. Also, Neuspeed springs have a decent reputation, and are likely to be made by H&R or Eibach. Hope that helps.
Ok that's it. I 'm taking away your honorary 'GSR Advice & Opin..." guru title just kidding! Ok some corrections:
1. NASA = National Auto Sports Association
2. Spring rates are measured in pounds/inch! (lb/in.) You were probably thinking ft/lbs as in torque and got it confused with that? Think about it. Each corner of our GSRs weighs between 600-700lbs depending whether it's front or rear. On a 200lb/in. spring (which is actually the GSR's stock rate in the front, 212lbs-in.) the compression of the spring will be about 3-3.5".
This is actually a very good question by Garados. My 3-3.5" estimate is close but not the actual distance the springs will compress because of the shocks. When the springs are compressing the shocks privede some but not very significant, resistance. The shocks main job is to control the rebound more than the compression. So the actual spring compression (lowering) when cornering hard would probably be around 2.5" or so depending on the speed and angle (forces) of the turn. When I first auto-x'd my GSR it was totally stock and I 've seen a picture my friend took of me on a turn, where part of the top of the tire was hidden inside the wheel well. I 'd say it was a good 3" spring compression. Even after I got the H&R OE springs (with stock shocks) I have pics where the tire is inside the wheel well. It wasn't till I got the Konis where I could control that, but if the tire doesn't go in the wheel well when auto-xing, or if you don't have enough suspension travel in other words, the car doesn't handle as well, like Casey said. So Garados don't be too concerned with that. There are many people out there with H&R Sports (not OEs) & Neuspeed Sports that have a drop of 1.7-2". They race their cars with no rubbing, scraping or anything. The wheel well is pretty deep plus aftermarket springs are stiffer than OEM ones so they 'll be less spring travel/compression.
'99 Integra GSR '06 Civic LX coupe '11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive '13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
yes, you can borrow a helmet every time, if you can find one that fits you. Usually there 's one that kind of fits your head SCCA dues are $60 this year! I remember paying $45 back in '99. They 've gone up because motorsports have become much more popular the last couple of years. NASA is about the same but NASA's events are almost twice what SCCA events cost. The 2 SCCA clubs I go to are $15/event if you 're an SCCA member and $25 for non-members. Other non-SCCA clubs are the same. NASA NorthEast where I go to a few times a year, are $35 per event for members and $40 for non! I pay $40 and don't like it too much but the good thing about this particular NASA club is that you get 8 guaranteed runs plus 1 practice run. So that's 9 total. At the SCCA clubs I 'm lucky if I get more than 5 runs. That is because the SCCA clubs are more popular (and cheaper) and usually attract 120-160 people. The most we 've had was 167! That's a lot and we only got 3 runs that day. The NASA club usually gets 60-80 people so they have time for more runs. Our NASA club also claims to have a 90 driver limit (fist come first serve) where they won't allow more than 90 people to enter so they can meet the 9 run quota. That 's bs though because I went to a May event last year and there were over 90 people there. The event ran really late till like 5:30pm. I don't think they ever turn people away because NASA is very money hungry and always looking to make a profit. NASA usually designs their courses to be faster than SCCA's and they 're pretty good about having a couple of road racing events every year and they can also issue racing licences like Casey said. You can go to any club and race. I 've auto-xed at BMW club of NJ (for the hek of it and because I was highly addicted more than ever in '00 and wanted to get better), PCA club - Porsche club of America (a lot of snobs with their nose up high but the Type-Rs kicked all their butts), M-Club - an independent club ran mostly by BMW & Porsche owners who design nice fast auto-x courses like NASA, Westchester Club (independent non-SCCA club but goes by all the SCCA rules), etc. So you can go auto-x anywhere you want without being a member or having to pay membership dues. Being a member though can save you a lot of money if you plan on going often or for the whole season to the same club. Like I said most clubs charge $10 more per event for being a non-member. But that's the beauty of it. You don't have to belong anywhere. You just drive in, pay, borrow a helmet from the loaners they give out and you 're all set! I didn't belong to any club in '99. I just went to a few auto clubs and tried them out. I was just experimenting with auto-x then because my brother was doing it and got hooked. I did go with him to a few events though in '98 and liked watching. It takes guts sometimes to participate. I know people and friends of mine that have been coming to watch me and the races for 2yrs now and they 're still afraid to try it. Many people think it's a lot of wear & tear on your car. So what if it is (which is really not except for brakes and maybe clutch a little depending how you launch)? It's worth it because you have a hek of a time doing something you like. Plus you can go home once in a while with a nice little cheap trophy. Speaking of trophies NASA probably has the best trophies. It's an oval plexi-glass-like trophy about 4.5" in diameter and 1" thick with your class and standing written inside the glass that looks 3-dimensional. Most other clubs give out beer mugs and glasses, some with a gold rim, and the clubs name prescribed on the glass with your standing 1st 2nd or 3d place.
'99 Integra GSR '06 Civic LX coupe '11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive '13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
Thanks for pointing out my inaccuracies. That's what happens when you try to answer something at work when you don't really have the time... Harry, you are correct, in that I was thinking in terms of using a torque wrench actually... I don't know where my brain was at the time. Doh! I am so ashamed. Everyone, please forgive me.
Not sure why, but if you look, it also says '95+ Civics NOC are in FSP. Also if you look at '92-95 Civics it has both FSP(NOC) & CSP. The "not otherwise classified" (NOC) is also confusing. I know I have seen '92-95 Civics in FSP before as well as a '01 Civic DX or LX in FSP but I think they were either coupes or sedans. It's possible all the HBs are in CSP, not sure though. You better hope you 're not in CSP. I looked at Sentras and other comparable cars and they 're in FSP as well but it looks like HBs may go to a higher class because they 're lighter. Now the funny thing is once or twice last year, they had an '01 Civic EX in my class DSP (poor guy came in last) because he had the Prokit springs. So I don't know how accurate this list is. Casey: Do you have the SCCA rule book with the classes from last year? I have looked at the SCCA classes 2-3 yrs ago when they used to be public on the SCCA's official website (they have since removed them because they want people to buy the rulebook). I don't remember them looking anything like this. They were more specific about DX/LX/EX models, Si and HBs. So this looks like it's something someone else put together and summarized a lot especially with the Hondas. The official SCCA list had a LOT more Honda models listed and it was fairly extensive. I think that you might be out of luck though because you have a HB and I forgot all about that. You car is 150lbs lighter than a DX coupe and 200+lbs lighter than an LX so you might be in CSP. That's one class I do not want to be in. It's a very fast class where gutted out 1600lb CRX Si's with 9" wide wheels & 600lb coilovers rule, as well as MR2's. Try e-mailing your local SCCA club president, chairman or committee member that might be listed on their website and ask them about your class. I think the camber kit may kick you out Street Prepared classes all together. I wouldn't tell anyone about those because you 're a novice and no threat to anyone. Just show up in March and have fun. You 'll be in the Novice class anyway and whether you 're in FSP or CSP it doesn't matter. You 'll get indexed. Make sure they look at the '02 SCCA rule book to get your classification and don't let them guess your class. Sometimes they classify people wrong because they think they have all the classes memorized. If you found your local SCCA club Web page take a look at last year's auto-x results and look at the cars that competed in FSP & CSP. That might give you an idea of you might be as well. You might get lucky and find a '96-'00 HB in there. All of the late HBs around here are SM because they 've done engine swaps or they have too much stuff on them to be in SP like rotors, calipers, etc.
'99 Integra GSR '06 Civic LX coupe '11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive '13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
Chem would be in CSP. Ouch! There are some beasts that compete in that class. Early model RX-7s, MR2s, Datsun roadsters, and certain Miatas to boot. The Honda listings are:
Civic 1500 (84-87) Civic Si (89-91) Civic non-Si & CRX (88-91) Civic SOHC VTEC (92-95) Civic VTEC, SOHC, & DOHC (96+) - Chem, this is where you fit in CRX 1500 (84-87)
Just for kicks, here are the Honda listings for FSP:
Anywho, you'll be competing as a novice for a while, so enjoy that while it lasts. Keep track of what kind of times the CSP cars are running while you're in the novice class and that'll let you know what you you're up against.
So I am in a higher class than you guys (DSP)? This is kinda weird...although it does not seem like they are split up the coupes and hb's because of weight because Casey's rulebook has all the 96-00 Civics in the same class. There really isn't that big of a difference between hatchbacks and coupes as far as weight, especially with the DX Coupe (lightest of coupes). It doesn't seem right that I will be competing against 99-00 Si's, but I guess that is how it goes. The "camber kit" I have is just a few strategically placed washers in on the rear two wheels which basically functions the same as an aftermarket camber kit w/o the adjustability...so basically you guess how many washers you need and then get an alignment and be happy. I don't see how this could bump me up a class...I can still just take them all off in five minutes but they are impossible to recognize unless you unbolted my control arms. In Street Prepared, what is the word on weight reduction? This is something I have heard very little about. Also, am I allowed to put in Si rear disc brakes (since they come from another Civic in my same class). I think the answer is yes from the time I wrote an SCCA committee member but am not sure. If I am allowed to put in the rear discs, why wouldn't I be able to swap in an Si engine as it is also taking parts from a car that shares the same platform and is in my class. Oh well, I am just looking to have fun and learn how to drive my car better.
I don't know much about swapping parts, e.g., rear disks, rotors, engines, etc. But I do know that weight reduction measures in SP classes are not allowed -- no removal of rear seats, carpets, sound deadening material; no nothing, nada. Zippo is allowed as far as that's concerned. Same thing is true for STS, and if you wanted to put your stock seats back in the car, I'm pretty sure you would be legal in that class, too. Just a thought...
No he 's fine with the Sparco seats. The SP rule book (from memory when I read my brother's book in '99) states that seat replacement is legal in SP but it has to be an adult seat and not a small child seat and it's subject to safety inspection, etc. The seats he has on now are better constructed probably than the factory ones so he 's safe. Seat replacement is allowed, driver & passenger one. All CSP pros and champs around here have aftermarket seats, probably because they 're lighter. As far as weight reduction it sucks. Very very limited. I see a lot of SP cars with no carpeting in the trunk and they always allow that. Don't know if it's in the rule book. If it's not mentioned in the rule book, then it's not allowed. That's the SCCA LAW. The reason you 're in CSP has a LOT to do with weight. A heavy duty suspension with extra wide wheels that stick out of the fenders (wheels that are exposed out of the fender don't think are legal in STS), can make a 2300lb car handle almost like a gokart. With good I/H/E to get a few extra ponnies (I see a lot of Civic CSPs with Apexi N1s 2.5" exhausts) a light Civic can be a formiddable opponent because you don't have to slow down as much a heavier car if you have the right suspension. There is a problem with this class though. '99-00 Si I thought were in DSP, because of their HP & 2600lb weight. Now it looks like they 're in CSP and come to think of it I remember seeing new SIs in CSP. The problem is that their extra 40+ HP is too much for a car like yours BUT these late SIs are a good match for the older lighter CRX SIs ('88-91) that rule this class because of their ultralight body. I don't care what you do to a '96-00 Civic. It's still going to be 300lbs plus heavier than an old CRX Si with 108hp to begin with. If that CRX has the same mods and suspension as you, you 're dead meat. Unless he is a really bad driver or it's his first season and you 're experienced. The new SIs with DOHC & true VTEC rely more on HP & torque plus they can gain a lot more with I/H/E than any other Civic. Those are a much better match for the older CRX SIs but they 're still not as good weighing 600lbs more. Even RWD 2200lb 1.6L Miatas & MR2s have a tough time against the CRX SIs that are barely 2,000lbs (My friend's '90 CRX DX was 1950lbs so the SI should be around 2,000). It 's not that fair for the '96+ Civics IMO. I wouldn't worry about some washers. That's no big deal. Hey look at the earlier VW GTI 16V that 's in my class DSP. Some of them only have about 115-120hp but they 're only about 2300lbs compared to my 2670. With the same mods as me or better (some have Neuspeed 25mm rear sway bars!) and with R tires they 're still 2sec. behind me and I 've been racing against these guys for 2yrs now. These (usually the same 2-3 cars) guys have actually more experience than me. Last year when I was in DSP with STREET tires I was still beating them by almost 1sec. and they were on R tires. VW Cabriolets are also in my class and we usually get 1-2 of those in DSP at one club I go to. Probably because of their weight I would imagine. So yes, I think there are many classes that are unfair to some cars, but they usually go by Divisional & National stats (so they say) and that's how they classify cars. But then again show me a Dodge Cirrus, a Buick Regal or a Geo Metro that went to the Nationals and I 'll show you a pink elephant. They try and do their best and usually go by weight and HP. I think your Civic probably belongs in FSP but then they look at all the new 2700-2800lb Golfs in this class with 115hp, and assume that you 'd have the upper hand with a 2300lb car and 106hp. Afterall 0-60 the Civic HB (8.7-9.1 I 've seen in different roadtests) is at least 1sec. faster than any base Golf. It's hard sometimes to find a class that would make your car equally comparable and competitive with others. It's usually a balance of HP & weight that determines what car goes to what class. I think unless they had 20 more classes, the current structure will always be unfair to someone. When I race at the NASA club I have to put up with only 6 classes! In my class I go up against modified Miatas and MR2s! These guys are top dogs in CS or CSP which is considered a very fast class. So I 'm usually right behind these guys and score 3d or 4th. If that wasn't bad enough, these guys in the MR2s and Miatas are all ex-champs. Ken Porteous was the '99 HS National Champ with his '95 Celica ST and Perry Aidelbaum (Miata) is the NE Divisional champ multiple times, Ken Fry a 2 time National Champ (MR2), etc. But on the other hand, many Subaru 2.5RS, Neons, and other cars can't compete with me in that class either, so this NASA club is even more unfair than any SCCA club. Actually I went up on the web and looked at other NASA regions and some of them follow the SCCA classes! My NASA region's excuse is that their trophies cost too much and they don't want to give out 20 of them. Like I 've said before, very $$ hungry. Everything is about costs, and profit with these guys. Now because many people complained in the past, this year they created a POINTS system which I think is fair to a lot of stock cars or ones that are lightly modded. With this new system, for every mod you have you add 1,2,3, 5, etc. points and if you go over 15 points you move up 1 class. So I added up my points they had listed on their web site and this year guess what? I 'm up 1 class with Type-Rs, Porsche 944s and Boxters! And that's without even adding coilovers. Coilovers have the biggest penalty (besides FI) of any other mod and they 're 7 points! On top of that it said on their Web site that all GSRs among a few other cars start with a 5 point penalty! So I had to start adding from 5 on up. They guy e-mailed me and told me that because my GSR did so well last year (but I never came in 1st or 2nd? so what's this guy talking about, probably because I was in the top 4 usually out of 20-25 cars in that class) they had to give all GSRs an extra 5 pts! So I screwed all the other Integra owners My CAI, sway bar, springs & shocks, and R tires would still have kept me in my old class but the PLUS wheel-sizing or plus tire-sizing was 3pts which kicked me up. Now this tire sizing up, is totally unfair. Everyone up sizes their tires. Do they expect Civics and Corollas to come race with 175-75 or 185-70 tires? I could see if it were 1 point, but 3? My CAI was only 1 point.. Anyway, they added 2 more classes though for slower cars which was good. The point I 'm trying to make is that there will always be some unfairness in all these classes but it probably works out that it's fair for the majority of them.. I think. It will be very interesting this year at NASA to see how the Type-Rs will do against the Boxters. The Boxter was in a higher class before (and also is 3 classes higher in SCCA too) but they dropped it down 1 class because th
'99 Integra GSR '06 Civic LX coupe '11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive '13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
I will be buying one of these cars in Late May/Early July 2002 and I want to start my search. The GS-R is too expensive on insurance (I'm 21). I had a 93 Civic HB and now have a 2001 Protege ES, and while I LOVE the PRO, we need a 2nd car, so I will have to get the older one. I want something reliable and fun to drive. I won't be doing any mods. Please help me decide.
Hey Gang, I'm in DC on business (attending a conference) and thought I'd say "hi." Just to clarify, I was saying that if Chem took his Sparco's out of the car and put his stock seats back in, then he would be legal in STS, not SP.
Casey, thanks for the information about the 1999 Integra GSR price, and the explanation of how to calculate the right relationship of rev and speed on my car.
I love this car, I looked for more than 3 months until I found one. This car has a lot of power, and the V-tech engine is amazing. I haven't had the chance to feel the V-tech since I bought it, but I did when I test drove the car. Thanks again and let's try to stay away from the cops now!
Glad to be of help. Also, glad to hear that you're loving your GSR. They really are a wonderful car, one of the better kept secrets out there. Good value (performance and reliability for the buck. Please check in here from time to time and let us know how things are going. Cheers!
I'm not familiar at all with Mazda products in general, nor the MX-3 model for that matter, so I can't be too helpful about your selection. In general, Honda/Acura products have proven to be very reliable year after year, so depending on the car you're looking at (mileage, condition, maintenance records, etc.) you could be getting a peach or a dog! The LS is ten years old now and it's really hard to say what you'll be getting. To compare reliability between the two cars, I'd pick up (if you haven't already) a copy of the Consumer Reports car buyers guide. While not a definitive opinion on the matter, CR will help you identify the potential problem areas for each car. Others here in this forum probably are more knowledgable than I on the subject, so I hope you'll hear from them as well. Good luck.
Older cars will have more problems than newer cars because of the wear and tear on them as well as the better technology that is in newer cars. The past Consumer Reports had the 93 Integra having trouble spots (9.3% to 14.8% having problems) in cooling, a/c, brakes, and exhaust. Overall, the car received a better-than-average overall reliability (highest rating). They did not have the MX-3 rated, but judging from the rest of Mazda's passenger cars of that vintage, the reliability was lower than the Integra (the Miata was the best rated). As far as reliable cars (with your requirements in mind) in certain price ranges in the last Consumer Reports:
Less than $6K 93 Nissan Sentra 93 Subaru Impreza 95-96 GEO Metro 93 GEO Prizm
$6K to $8K 97 Ford Escort 94-96 GEO Prizm 93 Honda Civic 93 Civic del Sol 93-94 Nissan Altima 94 Nissan Sentra 94 Subaru Impreza 93-94 Toyota Corolla
I was unsure exactly how fun-to-drive the car must be so I was less-critical to play it safe. I was also unsure of your price range. Let me know if you need me to list another higher price range (10-12 or 12-15) or to check out another car you are considering. Good luck with your car search.
It may sound biased since this is an Integra forum but I 'd definitely go for the '92 Integra over the base MX3. Even if you said MX3 with the V6, I 'd still say Integra because that V6 was very buggy and weird (I think it a 1.8L V6! the smallest of its kind). The base MX3 had very average reliability, was slow, and didn't sell very well at all, so it should be much CHEAPER than the Integra. Cars that have a low sales volume (except for exotics) will always have low resale value. Anyway my cousin's girlfriend has a '92 or '93 MX3 base and I used to blow her doors off with my base Geo Storm. Around '95-96 she started having some major problems and she got rid of the car shortly after spending $800 to keep it running. You 're also comparing a ~100hp MX3 to a 130hp Integra.. Now I know at least 3 people, 2 of them close friends that had a '90 & '91 Integra LS (same as '92). Although they both sold them when the cars had 110-120k mi., I know they did not have any problems with them except for a leaky valve cover gasket on one of them (probably because he redlined every gear every time, he drove it like a maniac). I used to enjoy riding in them. My friend shifted passed the redline, about 300RPM passed it! I remember one of the Acura techs had told him that the actual fuel cutoff was around 7200 and he 'd shift at 7100 when redline started at 6800. I loved those Integras. I think they were more comfortable than ours and even had more headroom. The 3d Integra I also know up pretty well is a '92 GS a guy drives with to work every day. Have known him for 3yrs now. He garages it daily so it 's in very good shape and he goes through the car wash, it doesn't have a perfect shine, but close and it looks like a 2-3yr old car at the most. It's a 5-sp. and it has 130k mi. on it. He recently replaced the radiator. Radiators usually go with time, not mileage. 10yrs is most radiators' lifespan. As far as I know he 's very good with keeping up with the maintenance. '90-93 Integras also had some of the best braking still beat by very few still to this date. I remember a C&D or R&T road test of a '90 LS when they first came out, and 60-0 braking was 122ft. They said it was one of the fastest braking distances they had recorded next to some Porsches & Ferraris and it beat most BMWs they had recently tested. A '94-01 GSR stopped between 127-133ft (from several road tests in different mags over the years). Type-R is 118ft. Anyway, any way you look at it the Integra is the better car. Better engine, shifter/tranny, brakes, etc. The consumer reports of a '92-93 Integra Chem mentioned is based on many components that are due to be replaced after 9-10yrs anyway. Not many people go 9 years without changing the exhaust. Most replace in less. Cooling: Radiator & hoses, same thing. A/C sometimes was a hit or miss with early Integras. Brakes, same thing. That's a maintenance item and you will need new brake pads every 3yrs or so plus if the brake fluid is not replaced every 3yrs (which most people don't do) your calipers will go prematurely. Rotors should also be replaced before the car is 9yrs old.. This stuff is minor as far as I 'm concerned as classified as regular maintenance. Another decent car would be a same year Celica too although they 'll both tend to be a little pricey. My brother had a '90 Celica GT. Nice car, smooth engine and peppy even though it was auto. Very good quality inside & out. Handled really well with just better 205-50-15" tires. Sold it with 101k mi. on it for a '95 Integra LS. He hated the fact that it was computer limited to 116mph! Let me tell you, that Celica handled 116mph like you were doing 60. Incredibly stable with stock suspension (but better wider tires). A '92 LS has a top speed of 124mph in case you 're interested. Only repair he had on the Celica was the A/C (compressor or condenser $400!). Shop around and negotiate! Go to www.kbb.com (kelley blue book) and look at the dealer trade-in prices of these cars as well as the "private party" sale #s. good luck. Integra & Celica would be the only cars I 'd look at if I were shopping for sporty coupes from the early '90s. I think the Celica at that time was a notch better as far as interior quality goes. That was the most popular Celica so a lot of them were sold. Just something else to keep in mind instead of the MX3. Both Celica & Integra should take you to 200k mi. without major problems if you get a 5-sp. Auto trannys tend to crap out around 150-160k mi. Good luck.
'99 Integra GSR '06 Civic LX coupe '11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive '13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
Definitely look at the NADA (your local library should have the most up-to-date version and you can just make copies) and the Edmunds value of the cars that you are looking at as well as KBB. Also look into getting a trusted mechanic or something like Lemon Busters to check out the car to see what is going to need repair soon on the car.
To be honest, I did some research before I bought this car, plus I only wanted to spend around $10K for a new car. It was my first new car believe it or not.. Oh BTW, I owned a '75 DART!! What a boat. I bought it for $500 from an old lady. Only 75k mi. on it and ran beautifully. Thank god I went over a huge boulder after an ice storm, (was airborne too - front end was destroyed) otherwise I would 've kept that car for a long time because it didn't want to die. Anyway, the only Civic I could get at that price at the time was a stripped hatchback or CRX with nothing on it. As far as looks goes my wife (girlfriend at the time) liked it and I didn't mind it although I wasn't crazy about it. I only liked Porsches & Ferraris at that time and old Classic Camaros, Chevelles & Novas and V8s in general The only other car I liked as far as looks was the Prelude and I couldn't afford one. The Storm's looks were new and unlike any other car and it was very low to the ground. The seat was low as well and you felt very close to the ground. I could not see the hood of the car ann I 'm 6'2. The nose was pretty aerodynamic (Saturn came out a year later and looked almost identical to the Storm). Anyway, I had read a couple of road tests and they said it was nimble and handled well. I took one test drive and I was surprised that it handled better than any stock Civic (& CRX) I had test driven. Sticker was $11,350 and I negotiated it down to 10,800. I told the guy I 'd be back in a couple of weeks to buy it because I knew GM/Chevy always had rebates in February. Sure enough, On Feb.2nd I see an ad on TV for the Storm announcing $800 rebate! I went to the dealer the next day and bought the car for $10K even. My logic at the time was this: The Storm came with 14x5.5" wheels and 185-60 tires. Civics were all 13" and 175-75 crappy tires. The Storm had Bridgestone RE92 HR tires which were rated one of the best HR tires at the time, the same ones the '97-01 Prelude came with years later! Cassette was standard while the base Civics (CX & DX) only came with AM radio!! A/C was standard and it cost and extra grand on the Civic. And believe it or not the Storm had more HP than the '88+ Civics of the time. Like 2-3 HP more. Most mags had rated the Storm (base model that I got) at .80 or .82g in the skidpad. This car handled amazingly well for its sticker because it was light (2,220lbs!), short wheelbase (I think 95" or 97"), it had sway bars, decent shocks & spring rates(ride was not soft & comfy, the suspension was definitely "sports tuned"), light wheels and good tires. It was just FUN to drive compared to the '90 Civics I test drove at the time. It carved the twisties really well. That Storm handled better than my '01 EX today. Even better than the '90-93 Integras of the time (.78-.79g). My friends with their g2 Integras could not keep up with me in the twisties and were surprised when I kept up with that at 110-115mph and while they eased off the gas on the highway because of a curve, I sped up and passed them. It just held the road very well. When I put Pirellis and other tires on it, it handled even better. The car for some reason was EXTREMELY reliable! The only repairs were an alternator around 110k mi. and 1 brake caliper around 120k. I replaced the rotors once and never did anything to the rear drum brakes. I did change all the fluids reliously every 30k mi. and the oil every 3k. Plus I had been putting Mobil 1 in it since it had 20k mi. That probably helped a lot because I was always revving it high to get power. Brakes were excellent. Automobile mag. tested it 124ft 60-0 and 10.0sec 0-60. It was decent all around car and could not be beat for the price at the time. I sold it with 135k mi. and it was running very well. It proved to be a very low maintenance and ownership cost car. I know others have had some problems with their so maybe I got lucky. I think the difference was that tuned it up often and changed the fluids often since it was my first new car and prized possession Had it for 7yrs! Sold it in '97 for $1800 and bought the '97 Civic. By that time it was starting to rust a little at the bottom of the doors. It was a nickel size rust spot on each side/door. That Storm proved to be just as reliable as the '97 Civic and even better. The '97 Civic kept warping the rotors and its brakes kind of sucked. The Storm had great brakes and stopped faster than any Civic. My driving habits were a lot worst than they 're now and I used to really beat on that car. I was surprised it lasted that long and didn't blow up on me. The guy that bought it put another 30k mi. on it and then totalled it. It did start to burn a little oil after it hit 100k, but it was less than a quart when I sold it. BTW, my GSR is starting to burn oil! I checked the oil and it was at least 1/2 Qt down! It might be the Mobil 1 oil, don't know. I changed it in September and I 've done about 2500 mi. since. It's black and low. I think ever since I started with the Mobil 1 (in June last year) it's been consuming more oil. Before it was very negligeable. This was the 2nd Mobil 1 oil change. I 'm thinking of going back to the Castrol GTX and see if it burns any. I hardly had any oil burning prior to switching to Mobil 1. Then again the engine went through another racing season so that might have something to do with it. I wonder if the valves need to be adjusted and checked. I should get an adjustment just in case and check the spark plugs. Probably time for a tune up too since the car is raced. We should do everything sooner than usual..
'99 Integra GSR '06 Civic LX coupe '11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive '13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
Harry, I'm amazed you can recall all the performance data about the Geo Storm. Sheesh, that's about 12 years ago. Talk about burning oil, my Atlanta region DSP champ buddy with a '95 GSR and about 130+k miles is burning a quart of oil per tankful. Ouch! Seems like it's just a matter of time before his engine is gone...
of OIL! The CAIs with K&N filters we put on our cars let in a lot of dirt and slowly damage our engines. It's great having one though Long term use though I think causes problems. This April-May it 'll be 2yrs since I put the CAI on. I wonder if I dynoed the car again, if I 'd get the same #s. Well it's time for me to spend some money on maintenance besides just mods. I 'll be replacing the MTF, the radiator fluid and probably the spark plugs/wires/dist.cap (most of these I can do myself). It's almost 3yrs old approaching 30k and I have not done anything but mods to it. I think it's in need for some TLC right now..
'99 Integra GSR '06 Civic LX coupe '11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive '13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
If I remember right, it was cjhannan or only1harry that said the car will be neutral if front and rear spring rates are within 20% of oneanother. the reason I ask is because I'm probably going to get some custom springs and the max is 460 lbs/in. I was thinking about 400 lbs/in in front and back. oh yeah, I already have the rear swaybar, if that'll make a difference with the springs in the handling characteristics, i.e. neutral, oversteer, understeer. what do y'all think? being that most of you are scca racers. Thanks.
Well not really. That's not what we said or meant to say (it was probably me). You see it all depends on what you plan to do with the car. If it's purely a street car and you don't plan to race, meaning auto-xing or roadracing, then with 400lb spring rates you 'll end up hating the car in a few weeks/months. You 're talking about doubling the front spring rates and almost trippling the rear!! I don't think you realize what you 're in for. If you want some level of comfort, I 'd go with the GC street kit the way it comes and put on a sway bar like you plan on doing. 400lb springs all around will be uncomfortable in every day driving if you drive more than just a few miles a day. It is also a little overkill for the street I think. The regular GC street kit is about 350F/280R. These are really nice spring rates and will transform your car's handling with some good shocks (preferrably adjustable ones) and a rear sway bar. Don't even think about installing these springs without aftermarket shocks. Once you hit the magic word 400, especially in the rear, the car will be much more uncomfortable and will, over time, get worse as the suspension and everything settles more & more. That's my advice to you. Now as far as neutral characteristics go, yes, you should preferrably have less than 20% difference front/rear and equal spring rates are even better. But that's not enough. It's the adjustable shocks that you have to play with, to get as much to a neutral feel as you can. Springs alone don't do it. You NEED the sway bar, and the springs together with the shocks. Now my setup is, or will be different than yours. So to be fair to you or anyone else this might work for me with the Konis Sports, the H&R OE springs, the 19mm sway bar, and rear upper & lower tie bars, but may not work for someone else the same way. And when I say neutral it doesn't mean 100% neutral. No car has that. Otherwise I 'd be able to win major races and fly through the turns.. When I say neutral I pretty much mean very minimal understeer OR oversteer. The car or tires will always eventually lose traction and whether the front pushes first or the rear comes around a little or too much is up to you and how you set the adjustable shocks, and the rest of your setup. Every setup is obviously different. I have 276F/220R, Casey has 330F/~200R, you 're now talking about 400F/400R, etc. I cannot guarantee you certain things, only help you understand and guide you. The best advice I can give you is not to drop the car more than ~ 1.5" and do not get 400lb custom rates if you don't plan to formally compete or race the car off the street. For street use even my "modest" setup kicks butt and will outhandle 95% of all the stock cars out there (just look at all the trophies and wins I have auto-xing). If you still insist on custom rates but won't race the car, then if I were you and wanted nothing to do with racing, knowing what I know now, I would most likely go with 350F/300R GC coilovers at the most. Actually I 'm very happy with the setup I have now as a street setup, and wouldn't think of upgrading if I weren't taking racing more serious. You don't want too much spring rate in the rear for street use. It's much safer for the car to understeer a little (but you can fix that with adj. shocks, trust me) when driving on the street otherwise it can get dangerous when letting off the gas after hard acceleration or if the car is not in a straigt line and you have some momentum.. 400lbs/in. in the rear will totally blow your comfort level away. If you try and set the shocks SOFT to compensate for the roughness and "thumping/pounding" noises coming from the rear (your lower back and spine will feel it more than anything else), then the car will bounce up & dn. or "bunny hop" as we call it, because your shocks will be too soft to dampen the 400lb/in. spring oscillations. It happens to me now and then with the H&Rs. Sometimes I set them too soft because I want to be comfortable. Then I go over some small bumps (or big) on the road and the car starts to bunny hop. I pull over sometimes and stiffen them up and put up with the harsher ride which is not that bad in my case. I 've learned to set them where the ride is almost as good as stock (but the handling is not optimum). It's a give & take thing you might say.. I don't know why I type 5 pages of stuff lately, but some of these questions warrant good & careful answers because when it comes to suspension and handling balance, there 's a lot to discuss and make people aware of. Why are you limited to 460lbs? Who is the manufacturer of these custom springs you 're considering? Oh and another thing, GC coilovers use the Eibach race springs (ERS) which are not progressive, meaning you 'll get the same high spring rate every time, unlike H&R Sports, Eibach Prokit, etc. which are progressive in the rear and use 2 spring rates.
'99 Integra GSR '06 Civic LX coupe '11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive '13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
Garados, Harry gave you an incredibly analysis about spring rates as they relate to suspension upgrades and potential handling characteristics of your car. The other part of you car's handling is how well (or not) you're able to drive it. For the sake of example, let's say you plan to race in autocross. With the spring rates you mentioned, you could experience understeer or oversteer depending on how you drive the course. If you go into a particular turn too fast, you'll understeer (also called "push") which means the car will tend to go straight when you want it to turn. If you happen to lift off the throttle at the wrong time, you'll oversteer which means the tail end of your car will get light and come around, possibly producing a spin or a slight skid. Some of these tendencies can be compensated for by adjusting the shocks, as Harry said. 400 in the front and rear would be excessive for a daily driving street car. All depends on what your plans are...
What I want my car to be is a daily driver that is up to auto-xing. I want to have a fairly nice ride and good handling. So far, the shocks on my car have been replaced with, I believe, aftermarket shocks. They are the stiffest shocks I have ever seen. I push down as hard as I can and the car doesn't oscillate once after I stop. I'll let go after compressing the suspension and it will return to where it's supposed to be without going back up and down again. They're great. Anyway, I have a 20mm rear sway bar with urethane bushings and new endlinks, and a 24mm front sway bar with urethane bushings and new endlinks also. I also have a front upper strut tie bar thing, the bar that ties the strut tops together in the front. I consider myself to be a competent driver and I know how to get myself into and out of trouble going into, during, and exiting turns. As for the GC's, I'm not going to drop the car that much, about .75 inches max. So, I think, from what I hear from you guys, I'm going to go with 350 in front and 300 in rear.
Comments
Anyone know about how much I should spend on an alignment? About $45? What about buying a "lifetime alignment" deal? I may not do this, though, because I am going to college next year and the contract may not be valid elsewhere.
Now front sway bar poly bushings are usually worth it, and result in quicker steering response. Forget about shock bushings. They too reduce ride comfort by a lot. Similar with poly motor mounts - noisy! A lot of these bushings are fine for drag racing and probably some road racing but you 'll have to be careful how you set up everything, especially the shocks when upgrading LCA & trailing arm bushings. Now this is what people have told me that I meet at the racing events. Maybe others might tell you differently but I think poly bushings affect your suspension according to the mods you have.
As far as wheel alignments go, NOT every shop wills set the toe they way you want it. Most shops will tell you that they 'll set it according to factory specs. Some see it as an opportunity to make more money and charge you more for a "custom" wheel alignment. So shop around and tell them that might ask them for some toe out settings once in a while. You also have a camber kit so I assume you 'd want them to adjust those too. They may charge more for that as well. Around here wheel alignments range from $39.95 when someone is running a special and up to $69.95.
'06 Civic LX coupe
'11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive
'13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
Now I have heard quite a bit about the Z10 Radius Arms that supposedly give you no wheel hop, better cornering, and better braking. Do you recommend them?
Check out this track video of my friend in his GS-R at his last track event (he is the red teg that zooms in about 10 sec into the video). Worth watching, pretty good technique:
http://images.stagonline.org/media/dinan_m3_hq.wmv
Oh yeah, and an urgent question for you: do you know if a Neuspeed lower tie bar will fit on my ITR rear sway? I can get one for pretty cheap and would like to know if it is worth it as far as the gains in handling. Thanks a lot.
'06 Civic LX coupe
'11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive
'13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
'06 Civic LX coupe
'11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive
'13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
www.ground-control.com
Definitely no problem with quality. Really good customer service. They will help you out with what you want to do with your car as far as handling and sell a durable, quality product. I plan to get them after I wear out my Tokicos.
Luckily for me Insurance decided to Total the car
and I was able to buy it back from the Insurance.
Insurance people were not so keen on selling back the Totaled car to me. I got it checked at the local dealership to make sure that everything except the whole interior is in place. You never know what these guys will do to your car in a couple of hours!!!
My previous insurance company ( American Express)will not insure Salvaged Restore cars so I had to change insurance. Insurance rates are based on the
model year of the car so I am paying the same premium as I would have paid to a "NORMAL" GSR sedan. One funny thing I realized lately is that if the car is stolen again they might decide the value of the car based on the Salvage title.
'06 Civic LX coupe
'11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive
'13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
increments but that might change the spring characteristics which are meant to compress, not the other way around. People have done it though, especially with race springs that lower the car an avg. of 2.5".
BTW, the Eibach Prokit for Integra has the following spring rates: 331F/126-194R. I got this from Eibach about 1-2yrs ago in an e-mail from their Tech Support. They also e-mailed me the Sportline spring rates which are 460F/174-257R which I was surprised to hear. The Sportlines have a bigger drop but it's not too popular especially by auto-xers because of the huge difference front & rear. This configuration will make an Integra understeer even more when pushed. It's not good at all to have 200lb stiffer springs in the front than the rear ones in a FWD car. This was part of the reason I didn't go with Eibach springs for my car. My H&R Sports only have a 20% difference between front and rear which is the lowest of all the "sports" springs out there and even some race springs. Mine are 276F/220R (I think 160-220 progressive in the rear). I wanted F&R to be as close as possible (look at ITR: 246lb/in. all around).
'06 Civic LX coupe
'11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive
'13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
Ground Control
(530) 677-8600
another question for you guys: Would a front camber kit or radius arms take me out of SP? Don't plan to put them on yet, but just curious. Thanks
BTW, there are many illegal auto-xers out there with camber kits. 1 club I race at found some people with camber kits and bumped them up. This was only after some drivers complained so in the next event they found 4 cars that made no mention of camber kits. I was surprised to see different classifications on these car because I was used to seeing them in SP classes. One of them used to be in a stock class and was doing really well! Another regional SCCA club I always go to doesn't seem to care and when I brought it up one time (because the owner of the "illegal" car had told me of the camber kit only after I asked) they said, if he doesn't take 1st or 2nd place all the time they won't make an issue of it. But if he only wins once in a while it's ok. I think that 's BS. Rules are rules. They do it a lot with cross drilled rotors too or aftermarket calipers. They let them slide almost every time. I don't associate with those drivers at all that are aware they should be in a higher class but make no mention to the tech inspectors of those "illegal" mods and sometimes ask the tech guys to let them go to a lower class because that's all the mods they have or they can't compete in higher class, etc. I 'm sure in Divisionals or National championship events this stuff doesn't slide. Most of the time these people go unoticed because they don't mention it and rarely does a tech inspector look at those things at regional events. They usually just do a safety inspection.
'06 Civic LX coupe
'11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive
'13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
Also, some dumb questions about autox organizations: Where do I go to find out about Solo II events in my area? What is NASA about? What is the first organization I need to get into? How much does an SCCA membership cost? Can't I just borrow a helmet my first time?
Thanks guys!
I think SCCA-Solo II annual dues are something like $45, but given your age they might have a discounted rate. It's all on their website: www.scca.org
NASA = the North American Sportscar Association (if I've got that right?) and they are a sanctioning body for road racing, HPDE (high performance drivers education, i.e., driving schools) and competition licensing. Whether or not you have high aspirations to become a roadracer, I'd start with the SCCA solo program. It's a reasonably priced membership, and solo II is the most "affordable" racing you can get into. Any and all experience you gain in Solo II will serve you well if your dreams and wallet take you into the world of wheel-to-wheel racing.
Ok some corrections:
1. NASA = National Auto Sports Association
2. Spring rates are measured in pounds/inch! (lb/in.) You were probably thinking ft/lbs as in torque and got it confused with that? Think about it. Each corner of our GSRs weighs between 600-700lbs depending whether it's front or rear. On a 200lb/in. spring (which is actually the GSR's stock rate in the front, 212lbs-in.) the compression of the spring will be about 3-3.5".
This is actually a very good question by Garados. My 3-3.5" estimate is close but not the actual distance the springs will compress because of the shocks. When the springs are compressing the shocks privede some but not very significant, resistance. The shocks main job is to control the rebound more than the compression. So the actual spring compression (lowering) when cornering hard would probably be around 2.5" or so depending on the speed and angle (forces) of the turn. When I first auto-x'd my GSR it was totally stock and I 've seen a picture my friend took of me on a turn, where part of the top of the tire was hidden inside the wheel well. I 'd say it was a good 3" spring compression. Even after I got the H&R OE springs (with stock shocks) I have pics where the tire is inside the wheel well. It wasn't till I got the Konis where I could control that, but if the tire doesn't go in the wheel well when auto-xing, or if you don't have enough suspension travel in other words, the car doesn't handle as well, like Casey said.
So Garados don't be too concerned with that. There are many people out there with H&R Sports (not OEs) & Neuspeed Sports that have a drop of 1.7-2". They race their cars with no rubbing, scraping or anything. The wheel well is pretty deep plus aftermarket springs are stiffer than OEM ones so they 'll be less spring travel/compression.
'06 Civic LX coupe
'11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive
'13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
SCCA dues are $60 this year! I remember paying $45 back in '99. They 've gone up because motorsports have become much more popular the last couple of years. NASA is about the same but NASA's events are almost twice what SCCA events cost. The 2 SCCA clubs I go to are $15/event if you 're an SCCA member and $25 for non-members. Other non-SCCA clubs are the same. NASA NorthEast where I go to a few times a year, are $35 per event for members and $40 for non! I pay $40 and don't like it too much but the good thing about this particular NASA club is that you get 8 guaranteed runs plus 1 practice run. So that's 9 total. At the SCCA clubs I 'm lucky if I get more than 5 runs. That is because the SCCA clubs are more popular (and cheaper) and usually attract 120-160 people. The most we 've had was 167! That's a lot and we only got 3 runs that day. The NASA club usually gets 60-80 people so they have time for more runs. Our NASA club also claims to have a 90 driver limit (fist come first serve) where they won't allow more than 90 people to enter so they can meet the 9 run quota. That 's bs though because I went to a May event last year and there were over 90 people there. The event ran really late till like 5:30pm. I don't think they ever turn people away because NASA is very money hungry and always looking to make a profit. NASA usually designs their courses to be faster than SCCA's and they 're pretty good about having a couple of road racing events every year and they can also issue racing licences like Casey said. You can go to any club and race. I 've auto-xed at BMW club of NJ (for the hek of it and because I was highly addicted more than ever in '00 and wanted to get better), PCA club - Porsche club of America (a lot of snobs with their nose up high but the Type-Rs kicked all their butts), M-Club - an independent club ran mostly by BMW & Porsche owners who design nice fast auto-x courses like NASA, Westchester Club (independent non-SCCA club but goes by all the SCCA rules), etc. So you can go auto-x anywhere you want without being a member or having to pay membership dues. Being a member though can save you a lot of money if you plan on going often or for the whole season to the same club. Like I said most clubs charge $10 more per event for being a non-member. But that's the beauty of it. You don't have to belong anywhere. You just drive in, pay, borrow a helmet from the loaners they give out and you 're all set! I didn't belong to any club in '99. I just went to a few auto clubs and tried them out. I was just experimenting with auto-x then because my brother was doing it and got hooked. I did go with him to a few events though in '98 and liked watching. It takes guts sometimes to participate. I know people and friends of mine that have been coming to watch me and the races for 2yrs now and they 're still afraid to try it. Many people think it's a lot of wear & tear on your car. So what if it is (which is really not except for brakes and maybe clutch a little depending how you launch)? It's worth it because you have a hek of a time doing something you like.
Plus you can go home once in a while with a nice little cheap trophy. Speaking of trophies NASA probably has the best trophies. It's an oval plexi-glass-like trophy about 4.5" in diameter and 1" thick with your class and standing written inside the glass that looks 3-dimensional. Most other clubs give out beer mugs and glasses, some with a gold rim, and the clubs name prescribed on the glass with your standing 1st 2nd or 3d place.
'06 Civic LX coupe
'11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive
'13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
'06 Civic LX coupe
'11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive
'13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
BTW, the coming and going squeaking clutch sound has mysteriously died away again...
Why does this page show me as being in CSP? Is this an error?
http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/Lists/2002/stprepm.html#Honda
Try e-mailing your local SCCA club president, chairman or committee member that might be listed on their website and ask them about your class. I think the camber kit may kick you out Street Prepared classes all together. I wouldn't tell anyone about those because you 're a novice and no threat to anyone. Just show up in March and have fun. You 'll be in the Novice class anyway and whether you 're in FSP or CSP it doesn't matter. You 'll get indexed. Make sure they look at the '02 SCCA rule book to get your classification and don't let them guess your class. Sometimes they classify people wrong because they think they have all the classes memorized. If you found your local SCCA club Web page take a look at last year's auto-x results and look at the cars that competed in FSP & CSP. That might give you an idea of you might be as well. You might get lucky and find a '96-'00 HB in there. All of the late HBs around here are SM because they 've done engine swaps or they have too much stuff on them to be in SP like rotors, calipers, etc.
'06 Civic LX coupe
'11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive
'13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
'06 Civic LX coupe
'11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive
'13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
Civic 1500 (84-87)
Civic Si (89-91)
Civic non-Si & CRX (88-91)
Civic SOHC VTEC (92-95)
Civic VTEC, SOHC, & DOHC (96+) - Chem, this is where you fit in
CRX 1500 (84-87)
Just for kicks, here are the Honda listings for FSP:
Accord (76-81)
Accord (82+)
Civic (73-79)
Civic (80-83)
Civic (92-95) NOC
Civic (95+) NOC
CRX 1300 & Civic 1300 (84-87)
Prelude (79-82)
Anywho, you'll be competing as a novice for a while, so enjoy that while it lasts. Keep track of what kind of times the CSP cars are running while you're in the novice class and that'll let you know what you you're up against.
The reason you 're in CSP has a LOT to do with weight. A heavy duty suspension with extra wide wheels that stick out of the fenders (wheels that are exposed out of the fender don't think are legal in STS), can make a 2300lb car handle almost like a gokart. With good I/H/E to get a few extra ponnies (I see a lot of Civic CSPs with Apexi N1s 2.5" exhausts) a light Civic can be a formiddable opponent because you don't have to slow down as much a heavier car if you have the right suspension. There is a problem with this class though. '99-00 Si I thought were in DSP, because of their HP & 2600lb weight. Now it looks like they 're in CSP and come to think of it I remember seeing new SIs in CSP. The problem is that their extra 40+ HP is too much for a car like yours BUT these late SIs are a good match for the older lighter CRX SIs ('88-91) that rule this class because of their ultralight body. I don't care what you do to a '96-00 Civic. It's still going to be 300lbs plus heavier than an old CRX Si with 108hp to begin with. If that CRX has the same mods and suspension as you, you 're dead meat. Unless he is a really bad driver or it's his first season and you 're experienced. The new SIs with DOHC & true VTEC rely more on HP & torque plus they can gain a lot more with I/H/E than any other Civic. Those are a much better match for the older CRX SIs but they 're still not as good weighing 600lbs more. Even RWD 2200lb 1.6L Miatas & MR2s have a tough time against the CRX SIs that are barely 2,000lbs (My friend's '90 CRX DX was 1950lbs so the SI should be around 2,000). It 's not that fair for the '96+ Civics IMO.
I wouldn't worry about some washers. That's no big deal.
Hey look at the earlier VW GTI 16V that 's in my class DSP. Some of them only have about 115-120hp but they 're only about 2300lbs compared to my 2670. With the same mods as me or better (some have Neuspeed 25mm rear sway bars!) and with R tires they 're still 2sec. behind me and I 've been racing against these guys for 2yrs now. These (usually the same 2-3 cars) guys have actually more experience than me. Last year when I was in DSP with STREET tires I was still beating them by almost 1sec. and they were on R tires. VW Cabriolets are also in my class and we usually get 1-2 of those in DSP at one club I go to. Probably because of their weight I would imagine. So yes, I think there are many classes that are unfair to some cars, but they usually go by Divisional & National stats (so they say) and that's how they classify cars. But then again show me a Dodge Cirrus, a Buick Regal or a Geo Metro that went to the Nationals and I 'll show you a pink elephant. They try and do their best and usually go by weight and HP. I think your Civic probably belongs in FSP but then they look at all the new 2700-2800lb Golfs in this class with 115hp, and assume that you 'd have the upper hand with a 2300lb car and 106hp. Afterall 0-60 the Civic HB (8.7-9.1 I 've seen in different roadtests) is at least 1sec. faster than any base Golf. It's hard sometimes to find a class that would make your car equally comparable and competitive with others. It's usually a balance of HP & weight that determines what car goes to what class. I think unless they had 20 more classes, the current structure will always be unfair to someone.
When I race at the NASA club I have to put up with only 6 classes! In my class I go up against modified Miatas and MR2s! These guys are top dogs in CS or CSP which is considered a very fast class. So I 'm usually right behind these guys and score 3d or 4th. If that wasn't bad enough, these guys in the MR2s and Miatas are all ex-champs. Ken Porteous was the '99 HS National Champ with his '95 Celica ST and Perry Aidelbaum (Miata) is the NE Divisional champ multiple times, Ken Fry a 2 time National Champ (MR2), etc. But on the other hand, many Subaru 2.5RS, Neons, and other cars can't compete with me in that class either, so this NASA club is even more unfair than any SCCA club. Actually I went up on the web and looked at other NASA regions and some of them follow the SCCA classes! My NASA region's excuse is that their trophies cost too much and they don't want to give out 20 of them. Like I 've said before, very $$ hungry. Everything is about costs, and profit with these guys.
Now because many people complained in the past, this year they created a POINTS system which I think is fair to a lot of stock cars or ones that are lightly modded. With this new system, for every mod you have you add 1,2,3, 5, etc. points and if you go over 15 points you move up 1 class. So I added up my points they had listed on their web site and this year guess what? I 'm up 1 class with Type-Rs, Porsche 944s and Boxters! And that's without even adding coilovers. Coilovers have the biggest penalty (besides FI) of any other mod and they 're 7 points! On top of that it said on their Web site that all GSRs among a few other cars start with a 5 point penalty! So I had to start adding from 5 on up. They guy e-mailed me and told me that because my GSR did so well last year (but I never came in 1st or 2nd? so what's this guy talking about, probably because I was in the top 4 usually out of 20-25 cars in that class) they had to give all GSRs an extra 5 pts! So I screwed all the other Integra owners
It will be very interesting this year at NASA to see how the Type-Rs will do against the Boxters. The Boxter was in a higher class before (and also is 3 classes higher in SCCA too) but they dropped it down 1 class because th
'06 Civic LX coupe
'11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive
'13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
Thanx, Dinu
I love this car, I looked for more than 3 months until I found one. This car has a lot of power, and the V-tech engine is amazing. I haven't had the chance to feel the V-tech since I bought it, but I did when I test drove the car. Thanks again and let's try to stay away from the cops now!
Less than $6K
93 Nissan Sentra
93 Subaru Impreza
95-96 GEO Metro
93 GEO Prizm
$6K to $8K
97 Ford Escort
94-96 GEO Prizm
93 Honda Civic
93 Civic del Sol
93-94 Nissan Altima
94 Nissan Sentra
94 Subaru Impreza
93-94 Toyota Corolla
$8K to $10K
93 Acura Integra
97 Prizm
93-94 Accord
94-95 Civic
94-95 Civic del Sol
93-94 Infiniti G20
96-97 Protege
95-96 Altima
93-94 Maxima
96-97 Sentra
96 Saturn SL/SW
95 Impreza
93-94 Subaru Legacy
93 Camry
93 Celica
95-96 Corolla
I was unsure exactly how fun-to-drive the car must be so I was less-critical to play it safe. I was also unsure of your price range. Let me know if you need me to list another higher price range (10-12 or 12-15) or to check out another car you are considering. Good luck with your car search.
Now I know at least 3 people, 2 of them close friends that had a '90 & '91 Integra LS (same as '92). Although they both sold them when the cars had 110-120k mi., I know they did not have any problems with them except for a leaky valve cover gasket on one of them (probably because he redlined every gear every time, he drove it like a maniac). I used to enjoy riding in them. My friend shifted passed the redline, about 300RPM passed it! I remember one of the Acura techs had told him that the actual fuel cutoff was around 7200 and he 'd shift at 7100 when redline started at 6800. I loved those Integras. I think they were more comfortable than ours and even had more headroom.
The 3d Integra I also know up pretty well is a '92 GS a guy drives with to work every day. Have known him for 3yrs now. He garages it daily so it 's in very good shape and he goes through the car wash, it doesn't have a perfect shine, but close and it looks like a 2-3yr old car at the most. It's a 5-sp. and it has 130k mi. on it. He recently replaced the radiator. Radiators usually go with time, not mileage. 10yrs is most radiators' lifespan. As far as I know he 's very good with keeping up with the maintenance. '90-93 Integras also had some of the best braking still beat by very few still to this date. I remember a C&D or R&T road test of a '90 LS when they first came out, and 60-0 braking was 122ft. They said it was one of the fastest braking distances they had recorded next to some Porsches & Ferraris and it beat most BMWs they had recently tested. A '94-01 GSR stopped between 127-133ft (from several road tests in different mags over the years). Type-R is 118ft.
Anyway, any way you look at it the Integra is the better car. Better engine, shifter/tranny, brakes, etc. The consumer reports of a '92-93 Integra Chem mentioned is based on many components that are due to be replaced after 9-10yrs anyway. Not many people go 9 years without changing the exhaust. Most replace in less. Cooling: Radiator & hoses, same thing. A/C sometimes was a hit or miss with early Integras. Brakes, same thing. That's a maintenance item and you will need new brake pads every 3yrs or so plus if the brake fluid is not replaced every 3yrs (which most people don't do) your calipers will go prematurely. Rotors should also be replaced before the car is 9yrs old.. This stuff is minor as far as I 'm concerned as classified as regular maintenance. Another decent car would be a same year Celica too although they 'll both tend to be a little pricey. My brother had a '90 Celica GT. Nice car, smooth engine and peppy even though it was auto. Very good quality inside & out. Handled really well with just better 205-50-15" tires. Sold it with 101k mi. on it for a '95 Integra LS. He hated the fact that it was computer limited to 116mph! Let me tell you, that Celica handled 116mph like you were doing 60. Incredibly stable with stock suspension (but better wider tires). A '92 LS has a top speed of 124mph in case you 're interested. Only repair he had on the Celica was the A/C (compressor or condenser $400!). Shop around and negotiate! Go to www.kbb.com (kelley blue book) and look at the dealer trade-in prices of these cars as well as the "private party" sale #s. good luck. Integra & Celica would be the only cars I 'd look at if I were shopping for sporty coupes from the early '90s. I think the Celica at that time was a notch better as far as interior quality goes. That was the most popular Celica so a lot of them were sold. Just something else to keep in mind instead of the MX3. Both Celica & Integra should take you to 200k mi. without major problems if you get a 5-sp. Auto trannys tend to crap out around 150-160k mi. Good luck.
'06 Civic LX coupe
'11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive
'13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
Anyway, the only Civic I could get at that price at the time was a stripped hatchback or CRX with nothing on it. As far as looks goes my wife (girlfriend at the time) liked it and I didn't mind it although I wasn't crazy about it. I only liked Porsches & Ferraris at that time and old Classic Camaros, Chevelles & Novas and V8s in general
BTW, my GSR is starting to burn oil! I checked the oil and it was at least 1/2 Qt down! It might be the Mobil 1 oil, don't know. I changed it in September and I 've done about 2500 mi. since. It's black and low. I think ever since I started with the Mobil 1 (in June last year) it's been consuming more oil. Before it was very negligeable. This was the 2nd Mobil 1 oil change. I 'm thinking of going back to the Castrol GTX and see if it burns any. I hardly had any oil burning prior to switching to Mobil 1. Then again the engine went through another racing season so that might have something to do with it. I wonder if the valves need to be adjusted and checked. I should get an adjustment just in case and check the spark plugs. Probably time for a tune up too since the car is raced. We should do everything sooner than usual..
'06 Civic LX coupe
'11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive
'13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
Well it's time for me to spend some money on maintenance besides just mods. I 'll be replacing the MTF, the radiator fluid and probably the spark plugs/wires/dist.cap (most of these I can do myself). It's almost 3yrs old approaching 30k and I have not done anything but mods to it. I think it's in need for some TLC right now..
'06 Civic LX coupe
'11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive
'13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
Now as far as neutral characteristics go, yes, you should preferrably have less than 20% difference front/rear and equal spring rates are even better. But that's not enough. It's the adjustable shocks that you have to play with, to get as much to a neutral feel as you can. Springs alone don't do it. You NEED the sway bar, and the springs together with the shocks. Now my setup is, or will be different than yours. So to be fair to you or anyone else this might work for me with the Konis Sports, the H&R OE springs, the 19mm sway bar, and rear upper & lower tie bars, but may not work for someone else the same way. And when I say neutral it doesn't mean 100% neutral. No car has that. Otherwise I 'd be able to win major races and fly through the turns.. When I say neutral I pretty much mean very minimal understeer OR oversteer. The car or tires will always eventually lose traction and whether the front pushes first or the rear comes around a little or too much is up to you and how you set the adjustable shocks, and the rest of your setup. Every setup is obviously different. I have 276F/220R, Casey has 330F/~200R, you 're now talking about 400F/400R, etc. I cannot guarantee you certain things, only help you understand and guide you. The best advice I can give you is not to drop the car more than ~ 1.5" and do not get 400lb custom rates if you don't plan to formally compete or race the car off the street. For street use even my "modest" setup kicks butt and will outhandle 95% of all the stock cars out there (just look at all the trophies and wins I have auto-xing).
If you still insist on custom rates but won't race the car, then if I were you and wanted nothing to do with racing, knowing what I know now, I would most likely go with 350F/300R GC coilovers at the most. Actually I 'm very happy with the setup I have now as a street setup, and wouldn't think of upgrading if I weren't taking racing more serious. You don't want too much spring rate in the rear for street use. It's much safer for the car to understeer a little (but you can fix that with adj. shocks, trust me) when driving on the street otherwise it can get dangerous when letting off the gas after hard acceleration or if the car is not in a straigt line and you have some momentum.. 400lbs/in. in the rear will totally blow your comfort level away. If you try and set the shocks SOFT to compensate for the roughness and "thumping/pounding" noises coming from the rear (your lower back and spine will feel it more than anything else), then the car will bounce up & dn. or "bunny hop" as we call it, because your shocks will be too soft to dampen the 400lb/in. spring oscillations. It happens to me now and then with the H&Rs. Sometimes I set them too soft because I want to be comfortable. Then I go over some small bumps (or big) on the road and the car starts to bunny hop. I pull over sometimes and stiffen them up and put up with the harsher ride which is not that bad in my case. I 've learned to set them where the ride is almost as good as stock (but the handling is not optimum). It's a give & take thing you might say..
I don't know why I type 5 pages of stuff lately, but some of these questions warrant good & careful answers because when it comes to suspension and handling balance, there 's a lot to discuss and make people aware of. Why are you limited to 460lbs? Who is the manufacturer of these custom springs you 're considering? Oh and another thing, GC coilovers use the Eibach race springs (ERS) which are not progressive, meaning you 'll get the same high spring rate every time, unlike H&R Sports, Eibach Prokit, etc. which are progressive in the rear and use 2 spring rates.
'06 Civic LX coupe
'11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive
'13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
Anyway, I have a 20mm rear sway bar with urethane bushings and new endlinks, and a 24mm front sway bar with urethane bushings and new endlinks also. I also have a front upper strut tie bar thing, the bar that ties the strut tops together in the front.
I consider myself to be a competent driver and I know how to get myself into and out of trouble going into, during, and exiting turns.
As for the GC's, I'm not going to drop the car that much, about .75 inches max.
So, I think, from what I hear from you guys, I'm going to go with 350 in front and 300 in rear.