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Gas Saving Gizmos & Gadgets

145791012

Comments

  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    the Vitron Plasma Converter ?

    These guys guarantee 300% to 500% increase in mileage

    From their FAQ page:

    How easy is it to install?

    Any qualified mechanic who has experience working with standard fuel intake and exhaust systems can easily install the Vitron-Plasma Catalytic Converter in under four hours. Or, if you live in Colorado or are planning on visiting Colorado, our certified technicians can install it for you by appointment.

    Will it work on my diesel engine?
    Yes!

    Will it work on my motor home / RV / boat?
    Yes!

    Will it work on my hybrid / alternate fuel vehicle?

    Unfortunately, no. The Vitron-Plasma Catalytic Converter is only designed to work with petroleum based fuels.

    Is it legal?

    Federal and State laws exist to prohibit you from removing or disabling emissions systems. However, there is no law that prohibits you from installing or replacing your catalytic converter with one that has a higher efficiency rating.

    In addition to dramatically improving gas mileage, our Vitron-Plasma Catalytic Converters offer substantially reduced toxic emissions regulated by EPA standards. In fact, the only exhaust products produced are Oxygen, Water Vapor, and trace amounts of Carbon Dioxide. The exhaust is clean enough to comfortably breathe without any ill effects. Imagine trying to do that with your current exhaust!

    Is it safe?

    Yes! Even though plasma can reach exceedingly high temperatures, the production of plasma requires a vacuum environment. In the event of any damage to your Vitron-Plasma Catalytic Converter, the vacuum seal is automatically broken and the fuel delivery system is shut down preventing any possibility of pre-combustion. Other safety features include check valves and flash-back arrestors to prevent an engine back fire from reaching the fuel supply.

    What kind of warranty do you offer?

    We offer a 100% 90 day money back guarantee if you are not completely satisfied with the Vitron-Plasma Catalytic Converter. In addition, all of our products come with a standard two-year warranty against defects. Some exclusions and limitations apply.
  • texasestexases Posts: 8,846
    Thanks for the laughs, larsb - these guys are like cockroaches, coming out with high prices. Not a single correct statement to be found anywhere on that web site :sick: :sick:
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,432
    Since when did hybrids not use petroleum based fuel? Could you find an address to return this device if not completely satisfied? It is just another of 100s of scams of which most are MLMs hoping to get you to invest in ripping others off.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    It makes you wonder where the state AGs are ... the one's who aren't in jail that is. :P
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,432
    It seems some states are more tolerant of these blatant snake oil ponzi schemes. The most amazing thing to me is how many Americans get sucked into them. Have I told you about Bioastin. It is all the rage in Hawaii. Cures everything and prevents getting sunburned. Made from algae right on the Big Island. We bought a bottle and my wife's arthritis is cured and I feel 25 years old again.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    I e-mailed them the question "why not hybrids" and I got this response:

    Hi Lars,

    Technically it would. We just haven't done sufficient testing on the hybrids to be able to stand behind it both technically and financially. If one of our devices were to have an adverse effect on a vehicle we can't substantiate that we've tested it properly, which would present too much exposure in a courtroom.

    Unfortunate, but that's where we're at currently.


    Surprised a human is really there. I offered him my hybrid as a guinea pig if he would install it for free I would be his first testimonial. I'll see what he comes back with.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    This guy seems sincere in his belief in his product.

    Hi Lars,

    I would be happy to accept that challenge. I can't do it this coming weekend though because I will be out of town. Can we look at the following weekend?

    As to the other concerns, I understand your skepticism. I don't have an answer to that other than we have about 1000 of them on the road, all with positive results. We have been working on independent tests but have not finished compiling the results. We've been working closely with the Air Force labs for IVT information. If the oil companies try to take me out, well... if they're really determined to 'take me out' there's not a lot I can do about it. I do have a condition in my will that upon my death the patent (pending) automatically becomes public domain, so I don't think it would be in their best interest to do so.

    I appreciate a skeptical mind and look forward to the opportunity to show you that this really works. I'll up the anti a little though. I will give you a full refund (or just let you keep the device) if you don't see at least 105 Mpg. In other words, if you only get 75 Mpg, congratulations! It's free! This is of course assuming that you are getting 35 Mpg currently while running on regular gasoline.

    Deal?


    So what do you think guys? Should I drive to Colorado from Phoenix and let him install this thing for me? He seems serious enough to take me up on my offer......
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,432
    You could be the first guy with a Camry that gets 105 MPG...
  • nortsr1nortsr1 Posts: 1,060
    Can you imagine the mpg a Honda Civic will get with that baby installed. Go ahead Larsb, go for it!!! (But make sure you report back to us!!! By the way, what is the price of this gas saving product.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    It's $995 for the one for my Camry, and $1345 for a larger SUV/Truck.

    My boss actually found this device - one of his cousin's kids just signed up with them as a "dealer" and my boss has a younger brother who is a "shadetree mechanic" who is contacting the guy by phone to get more information and decide if he thinks it will work. If the brother thinks it will work, he will come out here to Phoenix for us and install them on his car and our vehicles too.

    The gadget guy is willing to send us one "free" and let us try it and then pay him once we get the results on our own car.

    We might do this....I will OF COURSE keep this forum posted. If he's willing to give it to me free of charge and try it, I can't see the downside.

    P.S. My boss has an Avalanche, and if he can cut his monthly gasoline charges by 75%, he will have the gadget paid off in about 7 months. Might take me about a year, but after that it's gravy.......
  • nortsr1nortsr1 Posts: 1,060
    Well Larsb, If it works, it seems to me that some bigtime auto manufacturer will grab hold of that patent for a hefty price and start making it a "standard" installed item. Still ......... . "If it sounds too good to be true.....It is too good to be true"!!!!!!
    I eagerly await the outcome of this "astounding:" gas saving device!!!!!
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,432
    Better hold off Larsb: This is the guy behind the high priced HHO scheme..

    “Dennis Lee has repeatedly tried to defraud Washington consumers by promoting products that, in order to perform as he claims, would have to defy the laws of physics,” Attorney General Rob McKenna said. “He’s snubbed government regulators during his road shows and blatantly disregarded a court order that forbids him from selling items or business opportunities in Washington.”

    http://www.atg.wa.gov/pressrelease.aspx?&id=3892

    this basic technology has been around since the 60's Dr. William Rhodes Inventor. University of Arizona.

    Here is a good source on the whole idea of hydrogen powered cars etc.

    http://freeenergynews.com/Directory/RhodesGas/index.html
  • Karen_SKaren_S Posts: 5,092
    A reporter would like to talk with anyone who recently have used aftermarket products that provide better fuel economy, such as the Tornado Fuel Saver and fuel-line modifications like air bleeders and magnets. The reporter would also like to hear from people who have tried oil and fuel additives or exhaust-system modifications as well. Please respond to [email protected] with your daytime contact information and what you used no later than Tuesday, June 3rd.
  • vitronvitron Posts: 9
    Hi gagrice,

    I'm the owner of the company vitron-plasma.com and the developer of the product. I'm also the person "Larsb" has been communicating with via email. I can assure you that I am not Dennis Lee nor have I ever had any association with him!

    Furthermore I'm not in the HHO industry! My company experimented with that technology for a short time before abandoning it completely because... well... we couldn't get it to work very well!

    With all due respect please check your facts before posting something that could significantly damage another person's reputation. It's not only unfair to the target of your misinformation (i.e. me and my company) but also to the rest of the forum members.

    Forgive my bluntness, but I would ask you to consider how you would feel if someone publicly misidentified you as a criminal.

    Respectfully,

    Chris Ream, CEO
    Vitron-Plasma.com
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,432
    First welcome to the forum,

    Let me tell you that my first thoughts on any gizmo that will give significant gains to any internal combustion engine is skepticism. I have tried a few name brand products such as K&N filters and was always disappointed. If your device is some new and amazing discovery that will indeed save us a lot of fossil fuel. Then please forgive my statements to larsb. It did seem odd that you were selling your product for the same $995 that was stated for the device being sold on a MLM promotion from Dennis Lee. I am still skeptical of anyone that is claiming to triple my mileage. My advice to you would be to sell your product to GM. That would put them back in the lead selling cars, trucks and SUVs and save 1000s of American jobs.

    If you are selling your product through any kind of Multi level marketing scheme, I would not trust you. And in that case my advice to larsb would be the same, BEWARE!

    I do like your website.
  • vitronvitron Posts: 9
    Hi gagrice,

    Thanks for the welcome! Yes, I know our biggest hurdle is skepticism and that's only natural given the amount of "run your car on water..." and other such "products" out there.

    The only way I've been able to successfully market this is to offer a full refund if it doesn't do what I claim. Even then, the sales cycle is still usually about 10 emails exchanged back and forth. With a lot of q/a.

    Customer testimonials don't really work that well either because as we all know, they can be faked and are faked on a routine basis on some websites. We all know this and yet unfortunately it leaves a lot of people short changed by several hundred, to several thousand dollars regularly.

    The dishonesty in the fuel saving industry runs rampant. Gas prices are killing our economy and hurting the average American's quality of life. I get ******-off at these people who are preying on the average consumer's pain. It's also difficult to be automatically lumped into that category because I personally stand behind my claims and will never hide from an honest question or public demonstration.

    To address the question regarding selling this technology to GM or another car manufacturer; I'm not opposed to the idea however, I would need a guarantee that it would actually be used! I'm not a big conspiracy theorist however I am concerned that it's not in an automobile manufacturer's best interest to incorporate this system into their new designs. The federal government is throwing billions of dollars at the automotive industry for alternative fuel research and development. My technology still uses fossil fuel's (it just uses them dramatically better). My product is better suited for vehicles already on the road and in situations where someone doesn't want to get rid of their vehicle any time soon.

    I also realize that the fossil fuel industry eventually will be a thing of the past. I think my company really only has about a 15-20 year viable lifespan. I'm okay with that as long as it helps fill the gap while we develop better technology. Think of my product as a stop-gap rather than the magic bullet (like the water/hydrogen claims make).

    I hope this helps to clarify my position and intentions with my product and business!

    I enjoy answering questions so if you have any "fire away"!

    -Chris
    www.vitron-plasma.com
  • texasestexases Posts: 8,846
    Well, we'll ignore any of Gary's issues, so let's start off with your opening web page, and the whopper lie "Did you know that on average out of every dollar you spend on gas, 82 cents is wasted as pollution?" This is nonsense. Practically all the gasoline (far more than 90%) is burned. Any claim to triple mileage using an internal combustion engine is nonsense, pure and simple.
  • nortsr1nortsr1 Posts: 1,060
    VITRO: If your product has only a "15-20 year viable lifespan" ....let's be sensible here....GM, Ford or Chrysler,. Toyota or whomever would JUMP at the opportunity to use your product with the mileage increase claims you make...They would give you MILLIONS for a product like yours (IF IT WORKED!!!)... Why don't you contact Consumers Report and let them "road test" your product???????
    I simply cannot believe that if you are sitting on a gold mine that you haven't offered it to GM, FORD or again, whomever!!!! And please...don't tell me they wouldn't purchase it!!!!!
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 25,806
    Well, just to head off the argument. He already stated that he believes they would buy it and bury it.

    However, I contend this to be untrue. They will be spending millions upon millions to meet the new CAFE regulations. If a shortcut product was available, yes, I agree they would jump on it AND USE IT without hesitation.

    '18 BMW 330xi; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '18 BMW X2. 47-car history and counting!

  • vitronvitron Posts: 9
    Hi Texases,

    I would have to respectfully disagree for the following reasons; If that were the case there would be no need for catalytic converters in vehicles because the only byproducts of petrolium combustion would be H2O and CO2 -- Water and Carbon Dioxide!

    While you're correct that over 90% of the fuel molecules (hydrocarbons) do participate in the combustion process, only 18-25% of the hydrocarbons are fully reduced to lowest possible energy states of H20 and CO2. The other 75-80% are broken down into smaller hydrocarbons (which is of course still a fuel). Granted, they release some of their energy when they break down, but not all of it.

    A good point of reference for understanding this would be to google "NASA Microgravity flame spread research"... Nasa has done extensive research in microgravity environments with petrolium and other fuels and their findings are facinating and relate directly to our research.

    In essense, our product breaks the majority of the heavier hydrocarbons found in gasoline into smaller HC structures. This ensures that the majority of HC's entering the combustion chamber are then reduced to H2O and CO2. In fact, the exhaust coming from our modified vehicles is almost entirely water vapor and CO2.

    Does this help?

    Oh! One more thing... a vitron-plasma modified vehicle will pass emissions even with the catalytic converter removed. Of course, it's illegal to remove it permenantly but you technically COULD.

    -Chris.
  • vitronvitron Posts: 9
    Hi Nortsr1,

    Cut me a little slack here! My company has been in R/D for the last two years and has only been selling the units to the public for about 2.5 months.

    We have contacted Consumer Reports and are in the process of providing information to them. I will definently keep this forum posted on the process! And, yes... I know... their outcome will either make or break the company. Fortunately, I'm 100% confident that it will 'make' me, not out of blind optimism, but because I have seen and experienced the results.

    Maybe GM will contact me. Like I said, I'm not opposed to the idea, I would just insist on one condition; use it!

    -Chris.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,148
    Sorry, you've pushed a bit far on this one.

    No matter how you slice it, buring gasoline will never (at least not in my life time) produce only CO2 and H2O, ain't gonna happen. The fact is that there are just too many additives, scavengers, and impurities in gasoline to ever burn as cleanly as would pure hydrogen.

    The more I see of what you write and what you claim, the more I'm thinking that this is just another scam.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • vitronvitron Posts: 9
    Hi Shipo,

    That's an interesting belief, I wonder how useful it will continue to be for you as this technology is tested and further developed.

    First I would like to emphasize that I'm not stating that the only byproducts from combustion in the real world are H2O and CO2, however those are the ideal byproducts. That fact is incontrovertible and is readily verified in any fuel chemistry book.

    The fact that there are impurities, additives, etc... in gasoline isn't relevant to the discussion regarding increasing fuel economy. To illustrate my point, let's take a look at the main functions that a catalytic converter does.

    The first catalytic reaction is a reduction of Nitrogen oxides back into nitrogen and oxygen. 2NOx → xO2 + N2

    Where does the nitrogen come from? Certainly not from the fuel! It comes from the Air, however because of the Air/Fuel mixture ratio and incomplete burning of hydrocarbons, the ambient nitrogen binds with oxygen to for 2NOx. If the hydrocarbons were more completely burned (Oxidation) then there would be less O2 for the Nitrogen to bind to. This is one of the advantages of our system.

    The second catalytic reaction is the oxidation of CO to CO2.
    2CO + O2 → 2CO2

    Where does 2CO come from? Again, incomplete hydrocarbon-burn. There simply weren't enough oxygen atoms to bind to the carbon atoms. The other related by-product created from the O2 deficiency in this scenario is plain carbon as is evidenced if you hold a white cloth to the exhaust pipe while running.

    The third and arguably the most important reaction your catalytic converter does is oxidation of unburnt hydrocarbons!

    2CxHy + (2x+y/2)O2 → 2xCO2 + yH2O

    That's right the byproducts of your catcon is water and carbon dioxide. In other words wasted fuel.

    You're right that we will probably never see 100% fuel efficiency from petrol-based fuels. There are a lot of factors involved. Given the above information can you at least see that the way we currently burn gasoline is extremely inefficient? With more than 500 different hydrocarbon structures in gasoline, it is simply impossible to reach true stoichiometry for the combustion reaction(s). The classic 14.7:1 is a decent average but leaves a lot to be desired in ensuring you're getting the best possible fuel economy.

    What if we could guarantee that the majority of hydrocarbons entering the combustion chamber were chemically identical? Then we could better predict the correct stoichiometric O2 levels to give more complete combustion.

    That's what this product does!

    Once again, I apreciate the skepticism and the genuine questions. I know it may be a little difficult to accept that there might be a better way of doing things. I'm not trying to start a religion about this and I don't ask anyone to simply believe me. I do hope everyone will take the time to really investigate the technology and the facts about the process before forming a solid opinion.

    It's worth that much, isn't it?

    -Chris.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,148
    I've gotta tell you, guarantees are a dime a dozen in your "industry", and I for one am not even remotely interested in such a guarantee.

    While I have an open mind to most new innovations (I am a patented inventor after all), it is safe to say that I hold your claims with huge skepticism, to say the very least. Why? Well, so far at least, I've not seen a single shred of evidence that would suggest to me that your product would have a measurable impact on fuel economy, positive or negative.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • vitronvitron Posts: 9
    Hi Shipo,

    Again, thanks for the candor. We could argue back and forth for all eternity and get nowhere. I can think of only one possible solution that would be productive.

    Wait until we get the results back from Consumer Reports. I'm certainly putting my reputation on the line with this move. Which is exactly what's needed, after all - I'm the one with the claims and you're the smart consumer who doesn't want to buy something simply on the promises of a stranger. I respect that.

    I will keep this forum posted as we make progress down this road. If I'm wrong, I will accept it publicly. If I'm right, I hope you'll consider buying one!

    Until then, you may want to check out this article published by MIT:

    http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2003/plasmatron.html

    The technology they use is similar in function as ours, we have a much diferent way of generating the plasma though.

    Respectfully,

    Chris.
  • fezofezo Manahawkin, NJPosts: 10,369
    Oh! One more thing... a vitron-plasma modified vehicle will pass emissions even with the catalytic converter removed. Of course, it's illegal to remove it permenantly but you technically COULD.

    Of course the same could be said of an 80 Accord...
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • nortsr1nortsr1 Posts: 1,060
    VITRON...You sated that you have contacted Consumers Report. Have they responded to your request. You state "Wait until we get the results back from Consumers Report"...are they already testing your product??? Have you sent them a vehicle that is retrofitted with your gas saving device???
    I will formally "Cut you some slack" if in fact they do test it with "positive" results. In fact, if they say it is amazing and truly does what is is supposed to do,
    you will be looking for a huge manufacturing plant, a warehouse and a lot of new employees because you can bet....it will sell like hotdogs at a ballpark.( and I will be one of your first customers.

    NORTSR
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 25,806
    Wait until we get the results back from Consumer Reports. I'm certainly putting my reputation on the line with this move.

    Have you contacted any other media outlets? I'm thinking any number of car magazines (they'd probably ALL be all over it and would even fly someone to see you on their own dime), Popular Science, Popular Mechanics, etc.

    '18 BMW 330xi; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '18 BMW X2. 47-car history and counting!

  • kernickkernick Posts: 4,072
    It may help your credibility if you were professional enough to use a spell-checker on your website. How many "p's" in triple?

    Yes please post any independent, professional reviews of your product.
  • kernickkernick Posts: 4,072
    So let me ask you what your business strategy is? You're the CEO of this company right?

    I would think that a CEO of a company that could potentially be worth billions of $'s, would be spending their time looking for major investors, and be trying to get prominent, established scientific reviewers to look at your product.

    It seems rather strange that you spend even an hour a day talking to a handful of people here.

    It would appear to me that your business strategy is to find the dumbest 1-2% of the population, and market to them. Now I may be wrong, and you may be the Gomer Pyle nice guy of business, but don't you think that wasting your time, if you're product is worth anything?
This discussion has been closed.