Mechanic's Tools: Anything and Everything

spokane

You're right, T-handles don't seem to be very popular. When using one recently, a 25 year-old friend asked what it was. In many situations, I find a T-handle to be much quicker that a ratchet. Craftsman still has them in their catalog.

I have found your jackstand and cheater-pipe method to be the trick on some cranknuts. After breaking an extension with a five-foot cheater, I made an extension from a chevy truck axle. That did the job.

isellhondas

Were dropped years ago due to a total lack of sales.

Anybody ever use an old Pontiac Tempest "rope drive" driveshaft as a prybar?

You could flatten one end of these and they were the BEST ever!

wtd44

I love it!
--a truck axle converted to an extension for a socket wrench!

wtd44

Is that Kennedy box set the presidential model?

oldharry

The worst case cheater bar incident in my experience was when I worked for a tire dealer about thirty years ago. A local church bought an old school bus with Budd wheels, and wanted new rear tires. The one inch drive impact took off the right side duals, but wouldn't budge the left. We used a jack stand and a "X" four way truck wrench 1 1/2" if I remember correctly, a piece of 2 inch water pipe ten feet long, and a step ladder to get up high enough to stand on the end with one foot. I had to jump up and down on it with my almost two hundred pounds before it finally came loose, then repeat for the nine other nuts. Two hundred pounds at ten feet is two thousand foot pounds (okay pound feet for you younger guys) add the force of jumping . . .

Those were tight.

Harry

isellhondas

Think what a b&%#@ it would have been if those nuts had rounded off!

wtd44

Great story, oldharry, and reminds me of episodes where I have broken off studs that wouldn't release the lug nuts. I recall trying to help a friend get his worn out seat belts out of his old 200K miles Chevrolet. We quickly got to the half-inch air driven impact wrentch and still couldn't budge those frame bolts holding the end tabs of the seat belts. We went to a sliding Tbar and cheater arrangement-- no real progress, and access was poor. We finally milled the bolt heads off with my seven-inch wheel grinder and drove the remaining "studs" throught the floor boards with a hand sledge and monster punch, out of the car!

acuraowner

Im not sure if this is the right place to ask, but I did not want to start a new topic for it.

Anyhow I have been searching high and low for a feeler gauge. I have looked at all the auto parts stores and hardware stores with no luck. Does anyone know where I can find a feeler gauge?

Thanks

oldharry

Did you try a larger Sears store?

Harry

wtd44

Another good source is NAPA. I suspect CarQuest might be another.

isellhondas

Wow! I guess feeler guages went the way of the oil can spout!

spokane

Harry, you needed an 18-foot cheater - so you could put away the ladder. Of course you would have to move up to 3" Schedule 80 pipe. Now we have a cheater pipe that weighs 185 Lbs....

wtd44

Any cheater pipe over 18 feet requires two hands to operate. No problem. Under 18 feet, well, one hand is usually enough. (;^<

oldharry

Cheater and a six point cross bar wrench, when the wrench is on the nut with the end of the cheater touching the ground, advancing the wrench one flat on the nut raises the end of the cheater ten feet! With an 18 foot cheater, we'd have to call the fire department with their ladder truck.:<)

Harry

spokane

You're right, Harry. The super-long cheater doesn't eliminate the need for a ladder. Before you raise the roof to accommodate the super-cheater, consider a torque multiplier. Got an old transmission with a good low gear in it? Connect your socket extension through the transmission and you get your 2000 ft-lbs with a paltry ~700 ft-lb input and you are down to a cheater length of less than 10 feet. Ummm....better make that a truck transmission. Clearance problems? Shift into reverse and push the bar the other way....

oldharry

Truck transmission? That be SOME rachet you gone and built.

Harry

wtd44

...for making my case. See? Twelve point sockets are the BEST after all! Simple deduction says that the ten foot rise in the end of the cheater can thus be reduced to five feet.

isellhondas

Except they break easier. I'm surprised that you like 12 point sockets. They are VERY slow sellers unless some strange application requires them. Mostly sold at Sears for DIY guys.

wtd44

I've been wrenching since junior high school. In those days, Bill Hailey and the Comets were big, and Elvis was on the rise. I have "ruined" maybe two or three twelve point sockets in that time. I just can't abide your insistence, isellhondas, that they are no dang good. They are for DIY'rs, you say. I guess that means that real mechanics are another group? {:^~

0patience

Uh, I have sets of both, 12 point and 6 point, as I said. There are times for one or the other. Niehter is really much better than the other, except that under extreme circumstances, the 6 point is a less apt to round the bolt head.
But.......
Honestly, if you have to crank that hard on a bolt, you are using the wrong tool anyway.
I have busted just as many 6 point sockets as I have 12 point. Got to side with wtd44, PROFESSIONALS DO USE 12 POINT SOCKETS.
Look in just about any heavy truck (we're not talking pickups here) or equipment mechanic's tool box and you WILL find 12 point sockets.
Why? Because Detroit Diesel and quite a few heavy equipment use 12 point headed bolts.
But I guess I wouldn't be considered a professional mechanic. LOL!

isellhondas

I forgot...yes, heavy equipment guys like 12 point sockets, especially in the larger sizes.

I didn't say they were no good. I just stated my opinion that they are not nearly as widely used as six points.

On the tool trucks they were always slow sellers. Probably sold one set of them for every 25 sets of six points.

Except for the heavy equipment and truck guys.

When I worked for Sears, most of the sets automatically came with 12 points, and since Sears caters more to the DIY guys that is what I based my statement on.

Didn't mean to offend anyone. Heck, use what works for you the best!

wtd44

I also have many 6 point sockets, and I use them on occasion. In fact, I picked up a set of them at a Sears sale a few days ago for my pickup tool box. I have just always LIKED the finesse of the 12 point the most, and I am handy at wrenching, but have never earned my living as a mechanic. I have been paid a few times, but not regularly. Frankly, I'm not THAT good at it. I admire anyone who can do it day in and day out, and take the physical beating it delivers. There is nothing easy about it.
OH, yeah-- I've got a small selection of Craftsman 8 point sockets as well. Are you familiar with those? they seem to have been made for square nuts and bolts.

0patience

I have 3 sets of 8 point sockets, 3/8", 1/2" and 3/4" drives. They are designed for pipe plugs and drain plugs.

oldharry

is a Snap-On 1/4 drive spinner/extension. It has a screw driver handle, and a 1/4 female opening in the end of the handle. For removing brake shields on Ford trucks to facilitate ball joint replacement, put the 1/4 drive ratchet in the handle, break all the bolts loose, drop the ratchet and spin out the screws with the screw driver handle. I have a couple other 1/4 drive screw driver type spinners, but this is the only one that takes the ratchet in the handle.

Harry

isellhondas

Yeah...when I was in the tool business I had a guy order a set of these from me.

I did, he got fired that same week and I kept those sockets FOREVER!

spokane

Eight-point sockets are for the nuts on stove bolts and carriage bolts. Of course, we don't see too many carriages any more ....

wtd44

I've got several quarter inch "screwdriver" looking socket drivers. One is a Powrcraft (sic) sold by Montgomery Wards many years ago. It has a female socket in the handle end for receiving a ratchet wrench or extension, etc. They are REAL handy when you need one.

rs_petty

Is there any difference between major brands of the actual size accuracy? Is a 9/16 really 9/16 or are there casting irregularities? Or is the quality of a tool the ability to hold accuracy when stressed and over time (wear)?

isellhondas

A 9/16th wrench is a 9/16th wrench.

Cheap wrenches are usually thicker and heavier to make up for the cheaper steel they use.

Another reason guys who earn their living twisting wrenches don't usually like Craftsman.

The REAL lousy stuff may be brittle or soft causing the jaws to spread under pressure.

0patience

Sorry isell,
Not totally accurate, most of the tool manufacturers make their sizes within their tolerances. If a 9/16" wrench was actually dimensionally specific to 9/16", you would never get the wrench on the bolt or nut.
Nut and bolt manufacturers have an allowance of the dimension, which if the tool manufacturer didn't, the wrench would only fit about half the nuts and bolts out there.

wtd44

I have never noted that Craftsman sockets were thick walled or made of inferior metal. In fact, my experience finds no notable difference in quality between Craftsman and other good brands of tools.

rs_petty

Sorry I'm a lousy writer. Your point about tolerances was what I was trying to say. My question is about the tolerance in manufacturing. Do you find the more expensive brands of tools to have tighter tolerances? In my mind the more accurate the tool the less likely I would be to round off corners. Or is there so much tolerance in the actual bolts and other fastners that it really doesn't matter and I'm better off with a less expensive brand that allows a greater number of tools for selection?

wtd44

If you are using your tools for automotive mechanicking, you will VERY likely be dealing with good quality hardware that will interface well with your precise tools. In other types of use, you might find lesser hardware. The beauty of the 12 point sockets and box end wrenches is that they engage the hardware easily and over a wide range of approach angles from your hands. And 6 point tools require twice the angular "room" to approach the hardware, and thus require hand movement that becomes aggravating if not tiring at times. Using 6 point sockets, for example, may require you to use both hands to manually turn the socket on the ratchet to a usable position, while had you used a 12 point, there would have been twice the likelihood that no such maneuver would be necessary. This speeds up your work. It also lowers your frustration and disgust with all the delays! I am not aware of any 12 point tools being manufactured in America that do not meet the standards we would expect for satisfactory service. I have seen and owned some "off shore" tools that were sloppy fits, nonfits, misfits, and readily broken. I am on a crusade to upgrade all my tools that fit in that category to American made high quality goods. I have a few foreign tools that are quite acceptable and will not need replacing.

0patience

Isell,
some of the more expensive brands do have closer tolerances and in the case of some Snap-on wrenches, I have had trouble getting the wrench to go on the bolt, especially on some asian machine hydraulic fittings.
Tolerances of the wrench fitting should not be a major concern, the wrench could fit perfect and still be weak.
I do favor Craftsman wrenches when it comes to some hydraulic work, as some of the high polished wrenchs are tough to hold onto when you hands are covered in hydraulic fluid.
Some wrenches may be extremely close on the tolerances, but tend to spread when you have a real tight fitting or bolt. One comes to mind (SO).

wtd44

Does anyone know who manufactures and/or distributes Black Hawk Tools? Indestro Tools?

alcan

Duro Indestro Inc. and Blackhawk (Stanley-Proto) are here:

http://yp.gates96.com/5/22/17/59.html
http://www.stanleyworks.com/

wtd44

Many thanks.

isellhondas

I agree, the Craftsman sockets aren't much (if any) thicker than the professional stuff.

I was thinking more about their wrenches, the old style raised panel wrenches that are still their mainstay.

For the past few years, they have been selling upscale wrenches that are made by SK. They are full polish wrenches that are as good as anything out there. Of course, they cost more.

Since my working career began at Sears, I still have warm memories. They were good to me, believed in me and taught me a lot.

Although, sadly, they are no longer the same company I left, I have nothing bad to say about their products.

They have also come a LONG way with their toolboxes.

wtd44

I've got a handful of Indestro sockets, and I must say they appear to be VERY strong. I recall that they are far from inexpensive! Are these the type you consider to be examples of "professional?" I would assume so. I doubt that SnapOn can "put them down."
Speaking of upscale wrenches, I came across a sale several months ago where I found a set of combination wrenches (8mm to 21mm) under the name MASTER PRO. I bought them for the extremely high quality of metal work they displayed, and the fact that the package indicated that they were manufactured in the U.S., somewhere in Texas, as I recall. It was a new name to me.
I, too, have noted the seeming deterioration in Sears. With Wards gone, and other market changes, I suppose we are in for some big shifts in the market place before it all settles out.

isellhondas

My toolbox is an embarrassing collection of almost every brand you can think of..Sure can't claim to be a mechanic either.

The old Indestro brand...yeah, I remember they weren't very well known but made excellent quality, professional product. In the old days we would see these on the boards in the old auto parts stores. I think I have a deep 1/2" chrome socket that go's back to high school.

I even sold some Indestro. You even have the name correct, most people called them Industro.

And...I was never with S/O.

isellhondas

Never heard of Master Pro. Probably something one of the large tool companies private branded.

Somehow I think Indestro was absorbed by Stanley.

lbthedog

Anything but MAC or Snap-On sockets when I'm firing up my Ingersol impact. And I've got to say it confuses me when I see a commercial for for some tire store and they use chrome sockets on the wheel nuts. Got to admit some Craftsman stuff is "good enough" but when it comes time to put some effort behind a bolt, I have no desire to bang the knuckles or bandage the fingers because the socket broke.

isellhondas

Still...you can't believe the people who use chrome sockets on impact guns. Forget the breakage problem. This is a great way to lose an eye or finger.

Ingersoll impact guns are hard to beat too!

0patience

All of my air tools are Ingersoll Rand. I have 2 1/2" air wrenches that are 15 years old and one that is 3 years old. My 3/4" air wrench is 8 years old the rest are between 3-20 years old.
As far as impact sockets, I have Mac, Snap-on and Armstrong.
The Snap-on and Mac, when they wear out or break will be replaced with Armstrong.

I never use chrome sockets on air wrenches or air rachets, that is why they make impact sockets.

isellhondas

New one on me!

I remember when Chicago Pneumatic ruled the air tool business. They slowly turned into junk.

wtd44

I have a "fine" selection of Manchurian/Mongolian impact tools, except for a very few like my Craftsman air ratchet in 3/8 drive. I use it occasionally, and never put any real strain on it. I use it to speed up the process of repetitive wrenching. I don't hesitate to use non-impact sockets with it, due to no impact being employed. I often do final tightening with a manual ratchet. When I use an air impact wrench, I always use impact sockets in order to protect my non-impact sockets from possible damage. Do you think this is not a good practice? I supect you will agree with my use. (?)

0patience

Air ratchets aren't really that critical, just that I have the impacts in 3/8" drive, so I use them. One reason that chrome sockets are hard on air tools, is because the chrome sockets are actually harder then the impact sockets and can damage the anvil of the impact.
Air ratchets don't use an anvil, so you should be ok.

CP used to be a top of the line air tool up until the early 80s when they started becoming cheap tools.
Ingersoll has always been a high quality air tool company.
Most heavy mechanics won't use anything but Ingersoll Rand. And Snap-On's air wrenches are ok for automotive, but don't hold up very well in the heavy equipment field.

wtd44

I have duly noted that the IR air tools are just plainly "brutal" in strength, durability, and quality. I also note that they are a little pricey, and therefore as a cheapskate amateur, I have chosen to buy import air tools mostly from Harbor Freight Tools. I use them for speed and convenience, and can't rightly claim a "need."
(;o>

0patience

Ha Ha, understood.
But, Let's assume you buy a $39.95 special air wrench and this air wrench lasts a year, not to mention when you are trying to remove that crank balancer bolt, fighting for hours with it. So then you go buy a new cheapy. How many cheapies is it going to take to pay for the IR.
Personally, If a person is going to work on their vehicels themselves, an air compressor and IR 1/2" air wrench almost become a necessity.
Granted, you can get by with a cheaper air wrench.
You can find deals on the IR-231 for around $149.

You are right though, if a tool works for you and you are happy with it, don't be concerned with other people's opinions.

wtd44

One more posting from you, opatience, and that is all I'll be able to stand! I'll run out and get that IR I've been wanting for the last 10 years...
{:^>
Being honest about it, I could use more foot pounds of energy. Your statement about fighting a bolt or nut for long periods with weak sister impact wrenches brings up painful memories for me-- some as simple as lug nut problems (other people over-tightening lugs to the criminal level) and one seat belt frame bolt thing that drove me crazy. If I had had an IR, well................
OH! $39.95? Try $22.50-- no joke.